강아지가 지시를 따르지 않았을 때 발생할 결과(consequence)를 두려워하기 때문 [00:26]
보호자와 가까이 있거나 remote collar(원격 전기 충격기/진동기)를 사용하여 강아지가 행동을 강제받음 [00:00]
이는 일방통행적인 관계임: "I'm doing this because I have no choice." (선택의 여지가 없기 때문에 이 행동을 하는 것이다)라는 구조 [00:26]
두 번째 유형: 무관심/망각에 기반한 관계 (Relationship of oblivion)
강아지가 원하는 것을 보호자가 가지고 있을 때만 지시를 따름 [00:26]
강아지가 다른 흥미로운 활동에 몰입해 있다면 보호자의 말을 절대 듣지 않음 [00:26]
지시를 듣더라도 아주 잠시만 sit(앉아) 상태를 유지할 뿐, 다른 흥미로운 대상을 발견하면 즉시 떠나버림 [00:54]
이 관계 또한 일방통행이나, 이번에는 강아지에서 보호자 방향으로 흐르는 일방향적 관계임 [00:54]
강아지는 매일 제공되는 식사와 가끔 귀 뒤를 긁어주는 보상에만 의존할 뿐, 본인이 원하는 방식대로 삶을 살아감 [00:54]
세 번째 유형: 조화에 기반한 관계 (Relationship of harmony)
'호기심(curiosity)'이라는 가치에 기반한 관계 [01:19]
가르침의 방식: 교사와 학생의 비유
보호자와 강아지의 관계는 교사와 학생, 또는 코치와 팀원의 관계와 다르지 않음 [01:19]
지양해야 할 교사의 방식 (과거의 방식)
학생이 학습 내용을 제대로 수행하지 못했을 때 강압적으로 대하는 유형 [01:19]
"how many times do I have to tell you this?" (이걸 대체 몇 번이나 말해야 알아듣겠니?) [01:49]
"what's wrong with you?" (너 도대체 뭐가 문제니?) [01:49]
"What do I have to do to get it through your thick skull?" (네 머릿속에 이걸 집어넣으려면 내가 뭘 더 해야 하는 거니?) — (강아지의 이해 능력을 탓하는 비효율적인 소통 방식) [01:49]
지향해야 할 교사의 방식 (성장을 돕는 유형)
"can you show me what you understand from what I just taught you?" (방금 가르쳐준 것 중에서 네가 무엇을 이해했는지 보여줄래?) [01:49]
"can you tell me what you learned in your own words?" (방금 배운 것을 네 언어로 설명해 줄 수 있니?) [01:49]
강아지가 무엇을 알고 있는지 진심으로 이해하고자 하는 호기심을 바탕으로 성장을 도움 [01:49]
훈련의 근원: 에고(Ego) vs 영혼(Soul)
에고(Ego)에서 비롯된 훈련 (Training from a place of ego)
보호자의 필요와 결과(outcome)에만 집중하는 방식 [02:15]
"I need you to get how to finish every single pull." (네가 모든 풀 동작을 끝내는 방법을 이해해야만 해.) [02:15]
"It's important to me that I don't have to do any more work on this." (이 문제로 내가 더 이상 애쓰지 않아도 되는 것이 나에게 중요하다.) [02:42]
"It's important to me that I'm able to do the things I want because you have the minimum requirement of what I need you to have." (네가 내가 요구하는 최소한의 자격을 갖춰서 내가 원하는 대로 행동할 수 있는 것이 중요하다.) [02:42]
훈련의 목적이 '보호자가 원하는 결과'를 얻는 데에만 매몰되어 있음 [02:42]
영혼(Soul)에서 비롯된 훈련 (Teaching from a place of your soul)
강아지를 어떻게 도울 수 있을지 고민하는 방식 [02:42]
"I want to understand how I can help you." (너를 어떻게 도울 수 있을지 이해하고 싶다.) [02:42]
"I want to understand what you need from me next." (다음 단계에서 네가 나에게 무엇을 필요로 하는지 이해하고 싶다.) [02:42]
호기심을 바탕으로 하는 반려견 훈련의 본질
강아지 훈련은 '호기심(curiosity)'이라는 지점에서 시작해야 합니다. [03:14]
훈련은 단순히 나의 목적(agenda)을 달성하기 위한 것이 아니라, 반려견이 진심으로 성공하기를 바라는 마음에서 비롯되어야 합니다. [03:14]
반려견을 더 잘 이해하게 되면, 강아지는 더 나은 삶을 살 기회를 얻게 됩니다. [03:14]
인간관계에서 훌륭한 관계를 떠올려 보세요. 좋은 관계는 상대방의 관점을 이해하려는 '호기심'의 공간에서 형성됩니다. [03:14]
반면, "네가 나를 이해해야 해", "내가 무엇을 원하는지 알아내야 해", "내가 무엇이 필요한지 파악해"라는 태도는 훈련에 효과적이지 않습니다. [03:14]
그러한 방식은 '일방통행인 관계(one-way relationship)'일 뿐입니다. [03:44]
이 팟캐스트를 듣고 있는 여러분이라면, 강아지를 'reinforcement(강화)'의 관점에서 훈련하고 싶어 한다는 것을 압니다. 핵심은 오직 '호기심'입니다. [03:44]
훈련 과정의 현실과 마음가짐
훈련 과정은 결코 선형적(linear)이지 않다는 점을 명심해야 합니다. [03:44]
"You don't start with a puppy or a rescue dog here and get all the way to here, boom." — (퍼피나 유기견을 데려와서 시작하면 순식간에 끝까지 도달할 것이라는 환상을 버려야 합니다.) [03:44]
"Yes, I'm going from curiosity and Susan's told me this is all I have to do and wow, look at how it goes." — (호기심으로 시작했고 수잔이 하라는 대로 다 했으니 모든 것이 마법처럼 잘 풀릴 것이라고 기대하면 안 된다는 뜻입니다.) [03:44]
훈련은 'ego(자아/고집)'가 아닌 'soul(영혼/본질)'에서 우러나와 가르쳐야 합니다. [04:12]
훈련 경로가 오르락내리락하는 'blip(일시적 장애/변수)'을 만났을 때, 본질에서 가르치는 사람은 다음과 같은 태도를 보입니다. [04:12]
한숨을 쉬지 않습니다. [04:12]
좌절하지 않습니다. [04:12]
주먹을 꽉 쥐고 화를 내지 않습니다. [04:12]
대신 스스로 이렇게 질문합니다. [04:12]
"wait a minute, you're not getting this, are you?" — (잠깐, 지금 이걸 이해 못 하고 있는 거구나?) [04:12]
"Wait a minute. I got to draw this back a little bit." — (잠깐, 내가 훈련의 단계를 조금 뒤로 후퇴해서 다시 조정해야겠구나.) [04:12]
[00:00]
So, when you think of relationship, I'm going to give you three types of relationship that are possible and some of them might be extreme. For example, you might have a relationship where the dog does immediate what they're told the moment they're told because they're afraid of what might happen if they don't. So, you're close enough or you're using a remote caller that they will do it
[00:26]
because they don't want the consequence of not doing. That's a relationship based on fear. Now that relationship on fear is really a one-way relationship. I'm doing this because I have no choice. Now the second extreme scenario would be dog that you ask them to do something and if you have something they want, then maybe they'll do it. Otherwise, they're highly unlikely to do it. And if they're doing something they are really excited and want to do, then there is absolutely
[00:54]
no way they're going to listen to you. And if they ever do listen to you, it's probably just for like they'll sit for a minute until they see something else that they want to do and then they're going to leave. That's a relationship of oblivion. And it also is a one-way relationship, but it's one way from the dog to the handler. And so, the dog is just kind of living life on his terms and depends on you for the meals every day and maybe a scratch behind the ears, but really doing things the way he wants
[01:19]
to do those things. Now the other relationship is one that I would call a relationship of harmony. And it's based on a relationship of curiosity. And I think our relationship with our dogs are not dissimilar to the relationship a teacher would have with their student or a coach would have with somebody on their team. And imagine if a teacher taught something and then the student didn't do it correctly and the teacher would say, how many times do I have to tell you this? Or what's wrong with you? What do I have to do to get it through your thick skull? That's one kind
[01:49]
of teacher. I hope one that doesn't exist anymore. And another kind of teacher would be they teach you something and then they go, can you show me what you understand from what I just taught you? Or can you tell me what you learned in your own words? And they seek from a place of curiosity to help you grow, to help you learn because they really, really, and truly want to understand what you know.
[02:15]
And that is all that's needed with you and your dog. If you've listened to my podcast, you know that I'm a spiritual person. For me, I look at it as training a dog from a place of ego where you are training the dog because you want them to get it. If you're an agility competitor, I need you to get how to finish every single pull. I need you to get this. That's training from a place of ego. It's important to me
[02:42]
that I don't have to do any more work on this. It's important to me that I'm able to do the things I want because you have the minimum requirement of what I need you to have. You're focusing entirely on an outcome. That's teaching from a place of ego because it's all about what you need. Now, another direction would be training your dog or teaching them a skill from a place of your soul. I want to understand how I can help you. I want to understand what you need from me next. And that
[03:14]
is training a dog from a place of curiosity. A place where you genuinely want the dog to succeed, not for any agenda that you have, just because when a dog is better understood, then they get the chance to live a better life. Think of any amazing relationship you have or have ever had with another human being. It's a place of curiosity. It's a place of seeking to understand their point of view. It isn't a place of, you need to figure this out. You need to figure what I want. You need to figure
[03:44]
what I need. It doesn't work. That's a one-way relationship. And with dog training, especially if you're listening to this, then I know you want to train your dog from a place of reinforcement. It's just about curiosity. And keep in mind, and I've mentioned this before, training is rarely linear. You don't start with a puppy or a rescue dog here and get all the way to here, boom. Yes, I'm going from curiosity and Susan's told me this is all I have to do and wow, look at how it goes. However,
[04:12]
the nice thing when you're teaching from a place of your soul rather than from a place of your ego, when you do get a blip in your pathway that goes up and down, you don't sigh, you don't get frustrated, you don't clench your fists. You go, wait a minute, you're not getting this, are you? Wait a minute. I got to draw this back a little bit.