전문 반려견 훈련사들이 모든 사람이 알기를 바라는 것: 카말 페르난데스와 개에 대해 이야기하기 #209

the rehome label whatever the label it is that people attach their dogs which stops them from achieving the things that they absolutely can and I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy isn't it because that just that your belief about your dog or about your own abilities you know that there's that belief loop it just impacts your thoughts it impacts your emotions it impacts how much action you take in your dog training and then the lack of action or the wrong action ends up with outcomes that proves your original beliefs that I am not I don't have value I don't know what I'm doing my dog is stubborn my dog is spiteful whatever those are yeah that's those are two really good ones Kamel yeah that and I look back think back to when I know I was always a keener with my dog my very first dog that I trained formally like I would come home from class and I would no computers back then I would get out the graph paper and I make a chart of all the things they told us to practice and how many times we had to practice and I'd make a square for every time we were supposed to practice in a day and then I would check that off every time I did it I was a keener yeah you know I'm a huge fan follower of what you do recallers I always say I was there with the brown recallers the original brown recallers and it was the misconception that you had to dedicate an hour of solid time to dog training and it's just that whole five minute thing five minutes five minutes and it's being present and intentional about your training and the way in which you interact and engage with your dog and what I love about your approach to training and your philosophy is it isn't just about which is listening to Elliot was really profound because it goes beyond the realms of dog training dog training is your conduit to send that message and the methodology and the approaches obviously echo that but it goes beyond that and having been around you and seen you it isn't this is not just Susan Garrett for show this is Susan Garrett all the time 24 7 which I'm sure Kim loves let's not go let's not go there sometimes it's a bit much maybe back then we the recallers the original recallers we called it the five minute formula yeah and and that was what we were trying to get across to people it doesn't have to be an dog training actually shouldn't be an hour it should be woven into the fabric of your life with your dog and you do what on the podcast we've called the quickies that you're just getting in those little five minute training sessions they could be five second training sessions right we all

have them so how do you think about managing reinforcement all the time for your dogs because it's not just cookies we all know that yeah that's the thing it's and like I have no just to qualify this Susan has not given me any priming or say this I know it's once you switch your mindset into understanding that reinforcement is all around us and the way in which you engage with your dog the way in which you orchestrate your dog's life the way in which you you see the world through the lens of the dog well it's a game changer and it's I constantly I slightly jest and slightly banter with people that have puppies for me because I actually have a listener in the background of puppies cute puppies and they'll be obviously going to their homes it always makes me laugh about they say on a little Facebook chat oh my puppy's been doing x and my puppy's to the sideboard my puppy's to the curtain and I always respond my puppy hasn't because it's in a crate and a great community is why would I let my dog do that stuff and then go and okay they're amazing people and I can have yeah yeah but what the point of you go once you've adjusted your mindset to why would I let my dog do that in the same in the first place so understanding that reinforcement always happens is often and I would say this I say this literally tonight when I was teaching class it is what are you reinforcing ask yourself that constant question understand that reinforcement people get so stuck on it being the tug toy and the food in their hand but never mind their dogs barking at them and they they put the hand down to say stop barking and that's it bang the dog's been reinforced things like that or the dog that pulls on the lead and you persist going forward you're reinforcing that behavior so many things in which reinforcement it constantly happens and I think that's the biggest thing that people just don't get their head round enough that which is where which is why the other option of I'm going to use compulsion because or a versus comes into a question and this is something obviously you talked about extensively that's why it becomes an option because it's not truly understanding that reinforcement is all around us and if you can view the lens sorry view the world from your dog's lens you're going to you're going to be able to change things and not have those issues or understand where the value is and how you switch that value back to you like did it had a question somebody that said ask this about this afternoon about they've got two dogs and they constantly play how do they they and the dog won't

bring the ball back because it runs off with the other dog and it was that's a reinforcement issue where is the reinforcement where is the value let's like try and manipulate the environment and therefore the dog's choices absolutely I was I had some people I have a little get together of people on Saturday we were running courses getting ready for world team tryouts and so they're not my students necessarily and they train differently obviously and I think we're at week seven of these get together and finally I said because a lot of them are have these start lines that are not that great and I'm like can I just interject that the reinforcement is the jump jump yeah that's it because in this if your dog is really keen on agility and if you're thinking of trying out for the world team they probably are then you've got to realize that's the biggest reinforcement so you going back and giving them a cookie you going back and getting them to tug you going back and saying all of that is reinforcing the wrong thing it's just to recognize for the individual dog what is reinforcement like do you remember my first dog Shelby and it was a rock that was her number one reinforcer all right we can go with that and decaf was um obviously it was like water ice waters yeah yeah ice water and and it is this it's the I the opportunity to chase her mother so that is I would say that might even trump swimming that is the biggest thing and so it's about knowing what that is for your dog that you can strategically reinforce other things so I strategically reinforce the start line by knowing the ability to do agility is the biggest thing and then the ability and so now I've got probably one of my nicest walk in heel position with any of my dogs is with this because it's always been reinforced not so much with cookies but with the chance to run and it's the understanding obviously this has been raised with recallers etc that's innate within her and yeah no amount of you tugging etc is ever going to substitute because she's a herding bred border colleague that's her ultimate thing and I think that's where often people don't and always appreciate the dog that they have in front of them and the dog that they're training so you know that's going to differ from from this to Taylor for example or for beliefs they can have very different desires that it's your job as their owner to tap into what does this dog need what does this dog want and then utilizing that to get ultimately what you want exactly I'm trying to put in another layer

with tater salad because I started this game to keep him out of hunting in the woods I started a game I don't know last summer but maybe the summer before where we he walks beside me and I count one two three and then I'll throw a cookie somewhere in the deep grass that he has to find it and I'm like okay I don't want it always to be about cookies so I was going to transfer it to you pick up this tug toy only this one little tug toy to find it on the path then you give me cookies it works great in the house but he's yeah no I need primary right now I'm not really going to anything else outside you want me to stay out of there so it's it's interesting okay Kamal as a dog trainer what do you feel is your superpower oh god well this is one I didn't think I actually had it was actually empathy and compassion yeah and I didn't think I had that funny enough and that I've developed that with time and age and experience I would think to be a cop you'd have to have some empathy that's where it stemmed from that's where it stemmed from so I didn't have it and it was being in situations that required a great deal of empathy and compassion when you know it's really tragic circumstances when you're having to deliver awful news to a parent for example is the most extreme end of needing the requirement of compassion and empathy and it just in your to do your job at your best and I have to say prior to that when I was teaching I definitely didn't have it and I would say it's something that I'd say humor yeah maybe but but yeah definitely I think that's that's something that I have grown to develop and it's something that again like all of us and it's interesting listening to Elliot it's something that you have to do daily work on to remind yourself of those key things that you know your aspirations aren't necessarily the person in front of you you have to align yourself with what their goals are what their ambitions what is it that they want from their dog and really dial in from that and appreciate that people are often doing the best they can a bit like dogs in the circumstances that they've got themselves into and as a dog trainer you are there as part of their journey and their processes to try and facilitate their moving to a better place certainly some of the behavioral cases people are in a really raw state I know there was this we talk about separation anxiety people live in really they almost alter their whole life to accommodate for their dog's behavior because it's all consuming and it's a and it's a really life-changing behavioral challenge as are so many reactivity

aggression and when somebody invites you into that that process that journey however you want to articulate it to me that's a that's something that should be treated with the utmost compassion and respect and empathy to do the best you can for them and always be willing to put down your your ego I think is a huge thing that I think dog trainers can often suffer from and we're only you know the great trainer that I was a huge mentor to me always said you're only as good as your dog on the day and that's a great thing to remind yourself in irrespective of the level that you're at you're only as good as your dog on the day at the end of the day the dog's got to do the best it can in the circumstances that you have chosen to put them in give them a break and remind yourself that at the end of the day as amazing as they are they're a dog and they're doing the best they can invincible creature that's infallible I think ego as well is something to remind people of as well huge I think that for me the the evolution or the fanning of the flames of empathy for me because it was not my strength 20 years ago I always had empathy for dogs that was never a problem for me and that empathy for dogs is what taught me to have empathy for people and and yes and I think that's why we all have dogs is that they help us rise to our highest self and to and I think we I think that often people that have that gravitate to an approach training that allows them to extend that but I think that and this is something beyond just dog training it's true if we could be kind to our dogs then often we should be kind to each other and I think that's something that we all need to do work on reflecting on ourselves and I include myself in that statement none of us I'm certainly not perfect it's a and to remind ourselves that everybody's going through their stuff and I think that being kind is a huge thing that we should always remind ourselves to be and I think that's part of the evolution as well is when we are truly reinforcement based trainers we become reinforcement based people and that kindness is to people even that can't hear us when they're cutting us off in traffic so our language towards them because I love the line from Wayne Dyer and I've said it on my podcast before that when you squeeze a lemon all that can come out is what's inside and that's lemon juice what comes out of you at times when you're pressured that's what's really inside of you and examine that because is that what you really want to come out and it happens

behind a keyboard it happens on a phone I was on hold for so long today but that's where we can show up at our best to our dogs is when we can show up that way to everybody absolutely so thank you Kamal for being here swagger says thank you and he's oh best boy over across the pond not for you Susan just on a final note thank you for all that you do you know I'm probably going to do you out of a lot of money here by saying this but you can watch Susan Garrett's podcast and probably train your dog without doing any of her courses however I have to preface that by saying I'm probably on all I've done all of Susan Garrett's courses so I'm contradicting myself here but yeah you are a game changer you are changing the way people work let's see this world and for that massive thank you Kamal I appreciate you