에피소드 9 - 가르침을 주는 개 이야기

overheating because we did it either early in the morning or at night after the sun went down uhuh that's I was gonna uh point out there's in all of my recommendations about you know pet ownership getting the right crate for your dog sizing it appropriately I've always steered people away from The Wire crates except for one occasion and that's where you need maximum air flow to the dog right so in situations where you know it's either really hot you you can't or you it's just going to be you're in a in a place where the the temperatures are really hot and you need the dog to have access to maximum air flow the wire crates are by far the best way to to still secure your dog while allowing them the comfort of the most uh exposure to to to air flow yeah and so that that's you know that's something that a lot of pet dog trainers don't think about but those I mean like I just I had you know I have my dogs in Ruffins when they're in were in the when they're in the home and if they're crated they're in their ruins and if you go in there to like fish out a a toy or a bone from the back of the crate and the dog has just been in there it's hot like those things don't they they insulate extremely well well and with dogs that are coated I mean dogs in general you know with their with their fur and their um the way they're they regulate their body temperature you know they're all they run hot already right you know I think what is what's the temperature of the dog's normal resting body heat or body temperature it's like 101 or 102 something right around there so can't remember they already run like five six degrees hotter than a human does anyways and then you add on their coat you know those things you need to be mindful of that so yeah that's it's a really good point to to remind people that if you've got dogs in a hot climate or even a warm climate and um and you can guarantee that they're not going to like try to get out wire crates are going to be the best for those climates yeah and there's disadvantages of course there's a lot of I'd say there's a lot more disadvantages to the wire crate than the advantage of the the temp temperature regulation right but like now even in my house I have ruins um and I put fans and when it starts getting warm outside even though I have the AC in the house I still put fans on those uh crates just because of the fact just like you said because it kind of keeps it traps all that heat in there yeah and it can get really uncomfortable and and yeah like the the the hack to get around is just add induct add Force induction air flow into the crate so it pushes that and

circulates their body or the the the heated air from their body out so you just have that constant circulation going on um that was is it better to do like um like on a computer right where the fan pulls the air out so I know a lot of the crate fans they pull the air out they don't push the air in right yeah uh I would say yes as long as there's a supply of air that can come in but if there's not like if there's not a good Supply or access um of air that can get sucked in then I would say forcing air in and you know circulating it that way might be a little bit better that's where I thought like on my rough lens in my van the they're they're two door so one in front one in back yeah and I thought about putting like the crate Vans and having one a pulling air out and the one on the opposite end pulling air in right right so you create that flow of air through there maybe I'm going a little overboard on it but I mean I mean eat is the worst thing right because it it happens fast so yeah and and the signs are are sometimes hard to tell um but with with the crates and everything I mean those Roto molded crates from ruffland you can actually take a hole saw and just punch in new holes too right like you can do that and it still retains the structural rigidity to the to the to the kennel without compromising I think they give you they'll give you a template too yeah will they feel you wear to punch those uh if you want more holes yeah yeah so rough yeah it's great presents are good man they're they're lightweight the doors I like that the doors come off all the way so you can reach in there if you want to clean them right uh they're sturdy and then if if if you're a dog trainer and you train a lot of dogs there's times you're gonna have to clean out that crate yeah you don't want to be lugging a gunner around try to clean it the roughing there you just pick them up take them outside hose them off spray them yeah they they they're good I think they're the probably the best right now for you know having dogs um inside your home even yeah yep and you know another thing that's like a a supplemental accessory for dogs in heat right one of those the Kitty pools right like the the little round summertime pools that you can have in your yard it could be an inflatable um or it could be one of the plastic molded ones having that filled with some some cool water kept in the shade so that the dogs can cool off before and after exercise those are you know highly valuable yeah especially because the bottom of their body is where you want it to be cool right the bottom of their feet the bottom of their belly more than uh other parts that'll

help them cool them down right yeah I just posted a video where my wife did where we went we don't have a pool but we rent h a pool from a sniff spot if you know what that is and took our dogs there so they can swim in the pool oh cool do you know what sniff spot is I I have no idea what that is it's you rent your yard out to people that want to bring their dogs oh huh and it's like it's an app and you can you can book a time from like 6 p.m. to 7 p.m. and you bring your dogs there you pay by the hour uhhuh um and then here especially we'll we'll take our dogs to wherever there's a pool sure rent it and uh let our dogs pull off that way swimming in a pool yeah except it's funny because bulv swims like he's drowning he's like a thinker he's he's like when he swims he takes his time and like goes T is like I'm going to destroy the water he goes full like as much power as possible he actually you know how they tell you teach your dog to uh find the steps in the pool right uhhuh uhhuh because the lip of the pool on the side when there's nothing they can grab on to the dogs can't get out right Han like does a pullup he Powers him his out of the side of the pool that's funny he's angry yeah um awesome well I mean I think we have enough I know from some of the followers their profile pictures and stuff we have a lot of utility dogs hunting dog enthusiasts a lot of sport dogs pet dogs there's a lot of um sport curious individuals you know that are beginning to experiment or uh you know test the waters and and looking into different sports AKC obedience protection Sports things like that dock diving you know um and so I think it's I I think if you are involved in sport you should know be be very aware of the ways to care for your dog in those Sports you know each sport brings with it a new test on the dog's body you need you need to know likely injuries you know educate yourself on remedies or things that to do to manage that and prevent things as best as you can at home so you and your dog can and then yeah and part of that is having a crate in in your vehicle right when you're going to training um and it's a funny story because we were we went years ago we were training we went to a like a dog first aid class and it was held out of gun range so we all brought our dogs and had them in the car just to kind of just sit there and hear hear you know in the background all the the F the weapons being fired but there was one guy in our in the club that did not have a crate in his car he just had the dog in the back seat German Shepherd that he had rescued and then he had the the metal bars that go right be

behind the driver's seat right they go across so the dog can't go forward yeah well we come out and we hear him just like cursing and yelling and he's over by his car so we go to see what happened well he had left a bag of uh Cheetos or something like that I think it was Cheetos he had left it in the front seat his dog ate through the seat uh like like there was a big hole in the side of the seat he ate through and ate the bag of Cheetos uhuh it was crazy there was foam from the SE when I say ate he ate like it wasn't like a little piece so he could go through it was a good probably six inches of seat was missing and it was all over and it it was ridiculous man he was just cursing we were laughing because he after that he went and got a new vehicle an SUV and got a put a crate in it another person's dog Misfortune is someone else's humor for a lifetime right yeah especially if you've told them hey you need you should get a crate yeah no I was was that training when I was early on in my when I was getting into dog training there was this uh this gentleman who had a a really pretty high strong working German Shepherd um or a working line German Shepherd and the dog he was he was in Highway Patrol had him in the back of his patrol car the dog was not K9 um it was just a young dog his personal dog but he carried him in the back seat and there was no crate it was just cordoned off you know for a prison transport in the back seat and the dog had been out to training a few times enough to know that when he got when he rolled up he knew it was about to happen he knew he was G to get some bites he knew he was going to do some barking and you know some jumping and things like that anyways the dog ripped off the door's side panel and and this gentleman he was losing it he was like we're we gotta call and find a we got to find a replacement side panel because this is my department car they're going to kill me like and uh we had told him for a l like I mean for many times you know something's going to happen and you know worst case scenario or best case scenario your dog gets away with like maybe a minor accident or drools all over the seat you know from excitement or breaks or chews up a a seat belt but like he had totally ripped off the the side panel to the door and it was destroyed it was hilarious um but and that's where like we we said you know I think before we came on here we had said about um when like if you're training somebody especially new dog owners right yeah and you tell them things they should be doing with their dog they don't take your advice 100% they don't take it as they take they don't take it as dog training

information they take it as your opinion it's I think yeah some people do because so I had uh a couple that had two puppies they had gotten same age like very young like 3 months 4 months and they needed some training and I first thing I was telling hey you should have a crate right you should crate your dogs when you're at work and you're away yeah it just keeps them safe right and keeps it kind of helps with potty training in the long run and then it keeps things from happening that you can't control and of course they're like oh yeah yeah yeah and then next uh appointment no crate next appointment no crate well like the third or fourth week the dogs ate this it was a record like a vinyl record but it was worth like a, doar oh wow like the dogs destroyed some some sort of a collectible item right yeah it was a collectible and then of course the next week now they have crates but it's like I told you a month ago you know I don't just tell you stuff just to tell you like for no reason right I tell you things because they're going to be important at some point you know uh but it's it's like what how do you like speaking of uh training how do you make it clear that this is important and because you know a lot of times if they if it's people that have owned dogs before and their other dogs never did anything right and they look at their new dogs the same as they did their old dogs right but we know every single dog is different yeah right and how do you go about telling them hey you need to do this you need to do it not because it will happen but because it may happen right right and in some cases you know it's gonna happen you tell them this is gonna happen trust me you've had when you've had enough dogs it's it's you can take it to the bank this is information you'll need to prevent this issue down the road yeah exactly you know that's a good question I mean I don't know if I have the right answer but this is my answer and what I've incorporated into my business and my pet and dog training practice is everything is documented right we have very clear instructions that are written down that are sub that are sent and shared with the customers that we train and our clients because if it's something that's just kind of off offand like it's like oh hey by the way get a crate right they may not take that as like oh this is coming to me in a professional capacity this is more of just like oh FYI you might want to consider getting a crate and so until you spell it out for them and the more official like so the more official the information that is presented to the client is the more serious they're

likely to take it right and so for me I found that like anything that's like Mission critical to having a successfully trained dog through our program we make sure that that's passed on to the customer in writing so so that when an accident happens where it very likely will because they're not going to trust it we can go back and say hey look this is this is what we said you had it on paper this is we weren't joking when we said you needed to like take your do take your dog out on leash or you know or do this or that and and that's what I found to be most effective for me is like the more official you can make it to the client the more serious they take it but if you if you just relay information to them you know like tribal tribal information the relay of stories and anecdotes they they they may or may not take it you know very seriously yeah but I think even with having it written down right like you said you have those people that kind of glance over it sure you know and just like they look at it they're like okay yeah I'm going to do that but there's no urgency in what you told them to do you know yeah I mean at the end of the day you can't control someone someone's like if they're not interested in following your advice right if for whatever reason there's a disconnect between the quality of the advice that you're giving and your perceived authority to be able to give that information then you're already fighting an uphill battle which I mean so even in that context you're still better off having presented them with a a very clear-cut document saying hey this is these are our recommendations this is why you can always explain to them like hey this is why and share share those funny stories of like learned experiences you know in the past from saying hey a guy left his Cheetos on on the front seat and now he's got like a $3,000 uh car replacement problem or whatever it is and um but you can never really I mean again you can never really control what other people are going to do with the information they're given but you can always make sure that you keep yourself safe and unli right you know I mean there's Bart has his own unique way of say saying that right so you gotta keep yourself in dog training you must stay you can finish it we won't finish it on here you can go to the silver school and uh and learn it yeah yeah I don't think did I don't think he said it the last silver school he didn't say I I actually haven't heard him say it that often it's it's been a while since I've heard him refer to that yeah cool so what uh since we're on that do you have any stories about like training where

the person did something opposite of what you said or or misconstrued what you said let's say yeah we have a lot I have a a quick one sure because especially with puppies I would tell people like keep a you know uh like have a leash on your dog and control it in the house right right just because you don't want to get in leaving your sight and going in the other room and chewing something or going to the bathroom things like that right keep it close to you so you can uh you're always teaching it something well I had to change how I said that because when you know when you're talking to people that train dogs you might say something a certain way but when you talk to people that don't you have to maybe go into more detail so I remember this uh this one years ago I I told them I said you should keep a leash on your dog right so if I told you keep a leash on your dog most likely your first thought is like I'm going to hold the leash right yeah well I told him keep leash on your dog and then next time something happened and the dog like pooped in the house or chewed something and I was like well you know did you have it on leash yeah they're like yeah but what they were doing is they were letting the dog just drag the leash around yeah I guess they thought it was a magic leash it would stop the dog from doing things yeah so I had to that made I had to change and tell them you have to I had to add you have to hold the lease because of that one situation where they just let the dog drag the leaf around like yeah and that's the thing right when you say something you have in mind what you're trying to convey but that doesn't necessarily mean they're people understanding yeah exactly it's like are they hearing what you're intending them to hear which comes to dogs too when you're training them right right just because you have something in your mind that you think the dog should understand what you're trying to convey or communicate that doesn't mean the dog understands it and that's I think that's where people get into trouble training their dogs is that the dog doesn't completely understand yet and they're trying to do something which will lead to frustration because you believe one thing but the dog is not ready yet it's not at that point yes I I think yeah a good example of that is like where we as the owners you know we try to reward Behavior a certain way when the dog may not necessarily find our method of reinforcement actually rewarding and that's where what you give your dog in that moment can also go to what it it expects right you can punish your dog with the same like you said reward that you would normally give in

other situations if you give it at the time when the dog expected something else yeah right and then uh that's where I I was talking to somebody about that where the the uh variable like um rate not variable rate and reinforcement but the variable amount of reward like say one piece of kibble five piece of Kibbles two piece of Kibbles right I was thinking I was like if you say your dog I I don't I don't think you should give different amounts in the same training session unless you're giving it For Better or Worse um uh Behavior right or effort right qualitative aspect of the per but I remember years ago they said like just you know R and they used to they call it like I think like salting your kibble or whatever or your your rewards okay like they would have say kibble and then they would throw pieces of chicken in there right so when you reached in your bag you might grab a piece of chicken or you might grab kib or you might grab a combination right uhuh uh and they were like to keep it random but the problem is this this is what I think think I I don't know I've never heard anybody say it it's just a thought I have right say your dog sits like the fastest that ever sat and you reach in and give it five pieces of kibble you know or say like in that say you had chicken and kibble in there say you reach in and give it kibble right when it hoped and the next rep huh when it hoped for chicken no say it didn't know it's was going to get chicken okay okay but you reach in and you give it kibble it sat the best the fastest it ever did right or the best sit and the dog maybe it like it knew it you know but it sat the fastest I ever did and you gave it a few pieces of kibble and then you go again next rep you ask for the sit and it sits a little slower this time right and you reach in and you grab a piece of chicken randomly randomly and then the dog goes oh when I sat fast I got kibble but when I sat slow I got chicken yeah and then the dog starts sitting slow because it expects like the slow sit caused me to get chicken I want chicken again right and then the person's like I don't understand why my dog's not sitting fast it can do it yeah but it's not doing it right and we know when with dogs and expectation right they have tremendous willpower if they think that sitting slow will'll get them the chicken they will keep sitting slow and they might even sit slower thinking like no I have to sit slower to get the chicken because you didn't give it to me right right one F that's where I think derail it I think if you're if you want to do the random piece of kibble or random value of reward right so kibble five

pieces two pieces chicken steak kibble you should do it maybe when you're charging your mark your a clicker then make it random you never know what you're going to get yeah right but if you're trying to convey to the dog that hey that was the thing I wanted and without giving a jackpot and if you're going to keep training that's where you may go okay your last sit was 75% as fast as I like it I gave you five piece of kibble this one was 100% of what I like I'm giving you a job pot right don't go and give it one piece of kibble so you can keep training because possibly that's going to affect down the road how your dog thinks about that one behavior and and this is one of the many difficulties in the use of strictly training with positive reinforcement only because that I mean it seems so simple and and you think oh I'm including beef for chicken in with the kibble it's it's going to make my my training better but like you said dogs are smart and they might find it punishing that on the fast sit they got kibble when on the slow sit they got chicken or or something you know a little bit more from the dessert menu and and you cause your own problems and then also you know if if the reward I I got to stop saying reward if the reinforcer is not something that the dog cares to lose it's actually not a reinforcer right it's just filler it's Stu it's filler it's stuffing it's it's nothing of substance because that's that's where you find the lack of reinforcement happening is if you can't withhold it or take it away and cause punishment or a decrease in the behavior it's not a good it's not a good reinforcer and you should probably find something that has that ability to be used to give to reinforce and to take away to punish right yeah exactly it's it goes to like does your dog want this bad enough that he doesn't want to lose it either right yeah he may want it but if he doesn't get it he like okay I don't care right I'll take it if you give it to me but if you don't give it to me that's fine too yeah can I so along these lines this is making me remember I had a private lesson recently um with an individual who's doing some great work with their dog and they're just getting into things on the Nao front and modern dog training and you know it's always a balance for me as as a coach right coaching another individual who's actually doing the training for their own dog as to how much I should or should not say in the session because clearly there's a lot going on and usually in the beginning there's a lot that they need to hear but sometimes hearing everything they need to hear can be either it can be demotivating it can

be confusing or overwhelming or it can just create um just a a hodg podge of a of a of a training session so you have to be very tactful in what you decide to relay back to the the actual person who's doing the dog training and so I said you know I said hey get your dog get your dog out start warming them up you know just like kind of get them in get their get their juices flowing their muscles moving and and I made the comment that hey you know if you're going to uh use verbal praise as part of a reinforcement event or a rewarding event for your dog you should make sure you do it after the Mark or The Terminal marker happens so that there's a a clear distinction in the dog's eyes as to praise is not the release praise is actually part of the the party that happens after their they've complet completed good behavior and so they're like okay copy that and then they went right into the next rep and what did they do they praised and then they marked in in the wrong order right and it just goes to show that kind of along the lines of what you're saying is you know sometimes reinforcement and all this stuff like there's just a lot to there's a lot to juggle right and I was sitting there I was like okay I just told him what to do he just did it wrong do I give back do I jump back in and let it slide and see if he corrects it in the in the next rep or is this something that I jump in and say whoa like and because you know you don't want to like demotivate people because they're so excited to be training their dogs and doing things that are going to work for their dog especially when they see results so that was just another incident that happened recently that you know kind of Falls in line with this this talk yeah I think like with that it comes down to the where the person is in the learning like I think just like with dogs if the person is just learning I think you you want to do less um less Precision right let them do and kind of like get used to it and liking it uh and then as they go and they understand it better now you add the more like hey don't do it that way do it this way right you know instead of going right from the beginning no do this no do exactly that no do exactly that exactly that I think that's where like you said the demotivation might come in if you're too strict on the way they do something in the beginning yeah but the difficult part dogs right like if you constantly they they just you disrupt their momentum it it starts to reflect in their motivation their hope right the Hope starts to like get tempered and then you run out of the gasoline that you need for the training

altogether and it yeah because it's they start and it's not it it I don't know if it's yeah for some dogs they'll get demotivated but other dogs what they'll do is they'll slow down because they were like let me make sure I'm doing this right and you lose the power yeah in that behavior yeah instead of just doing it as like as strongly you know with as much motivation as possible right and then once that's where neighbor P comes in right you that's why you build the motivation because then once you have the motivation now you can go in and fix things yeah because now when you tweak it they're not like oh I'm doing something wrong they're like okay I love doing this let me do it a little bit differently yeah this that actually was one of the one of the recurring themes just a week ago is that the amount of ignition you have um or or having a lot of ignition in a dog can really compensate for a lot of the the failures or the mistakes that led up to the point that you're at you know and and really the solution to all issues in dog training is building more ignition right if you if you've got scars in your training from from like bad training uh excessive you know rough training or even you don't have enough motivation to do certain things and there's no interest in training at all ignition is the answer to all all the problems yeah and it's difficult with going back to that like when you correct somebody or when you don't right speaking of people people because you don't want them to keep repeating the same thing over and over again because now it's be become a pattern yeah so it's aate when do you step in and fix it or when do you let them go like right well the thing like my teaching style I'll speak to my teaching style I'm I'm very much like a a perfectionist in in the things I do in my personal life I I strive I probably o like I go overboard on wanting to like make things perfect and it's been one of my New Year's resolutions for this year is to to make sure that I learn to accept things that are good enough um to get by with because a lot of times going for Perfection really results in never accomplishing anything and that goes for working with dogs working with people business you know developing new skills or talents and so I've been really focused this year on making sure that I don't get in my own way and just allowing things that are good enough to to to just be sufficient for what I need and stop aiming for that and it's actually it's been really hard I'll tell you that it's been really difficult but it's also it's been interesting to see how much more I've been able to to accomplish and so I definitely think

it's something worth worth keeping in check um because I know when I train I air on the side of like too much information I'm too nitpicky and I should probably just leave and let be and then gradually refine the process or the product yeah and especially with with dogs because dogs will kind of figure it out right if it's if they have the motivation yeah they will kind of figure out what you're trying to teach them whether you're good at it or not like right or whether you're doing something in a certain order but I have a do I do have a story where it's not good to let things go right but it's it's it's kind of like I didn't know it was happening so there was a friend of mine that wanted to or somebody I worked with before that wanted to train their dog so I went over there just I was going to just charge the clicker right so had two dogs the one dog clicked fed clicked fed clicked fed it was good the dog was excited the other dog was afraid of the click right a little bit not to the point where they ran away but it was you could see they didn't like the sound of the click from the clicker sure but I told her I go okay what's your favorite her favorite treats so she had this bag of treats like this is her favorite I was like okay let me show you so I clicked I paused I gave the favorite treat I waited a little bit clicked paused gave a favorite treat I did a few times I go okay now you got it now okay now show me so person did the same thing click pause gave the treat click pause gave the treat and the dog was staying there even though you could see it was like I don't like that clicker but I like these treats so I was like okay I go just do that this week I go nothing else just do that yeah right um so like a week later I'm at work I was like oh how how's it going with the dogs she's like oh it was going good she talk about the one dog she goes but my my other dog doesn't like his favorite treats anymore like I'm thinking I'm like why would that be you know how is that possible yeah and I said well tell me what you've been doing she goes yeah I'm doing just like you showed me I'd give the treat and then I'd click give the treat then a click so the order in which you do something is very important because she classically conditioned the dog to be afraid of the treats because it was afraid of the clicker but that's the thing when you when you tell somebody you show them you have them do it in front of you and they do it correctly like you don't have any there's nothing you can do after that yeah you know if they change the way they're doing something yeah and cause a problem which I mean in it wouldn't be a

problem you just don't use the clicker right but it could be something else where it's now it's a problem yeah these are some hilarious stories too man these are these are funny it makes me think we should just have this episode just be on humorous reminiscent experiences from our our careers in dog training because there's so much to learn from like even the funny stories like you know the things that people do that are just ridiculous there there's still a lot to be learned and you can actually make a lesson in Behavioral Science from some of these stories so I had another person that same thing they were it was perfect for the clicker because they um they had like mobility issues so it was easier for them to sit in a chair right and then train the dog so for me the clicker would be perfect you can you know pinpoint Behavior at a distance or ever and you don't have to do much but I had to tell that person to stop using the clicker because we'd be out they' say sit and the dog wouldn't sit and then they'd go like this and click the clicker at the dog they use it as a pun tool I was just like and the dog I mean it was nothing the dog just ignored it because of whatever they were doing with I was like okay and talking about like you said like correcting it like at some point you can't correct it you just have to say okay let just leave that we're not going to use that right we're throwing that tool out because for some reason I didn't explain to you something or you didn't understand what I told you this so this isn't there's not a lot of teaching behind this but it it it reflects the truism of dog training right so you know Bart always says a dog bites cat scratches and a horse kicks so we were doing some obedience with one of the police uh canines in Colorado at my gold School a week ago and we had it on a platform we were what I was doing was I was demonstrating the the value of teaching tactile commands for sit down stand right so sit you tap the dog on The Coup the dog sits you tap the dog on the shoulder blades the dog lays down you tap the dog under the belly the dog stands up on all fours right so we were doing that with this dog and you know these dogs like you said they pick things up so fast and there was a there was another officer who was laying down somewhat nearby in kind of like a curled up fetal position the the I I think the officer had had something um something to eat that caused him to have like you know an upset stomach or like maybe the stomach bug or something like that so he was just kind of like kind of resting and was about eight 8 10 feet away from this dog and this dog was back tied on a

platform and this is a patrol a dual purpose Patrol canine so he he does narcotics and he does Patrol work and he's he's had live bites before but he's a stable he's a clear-headed dog very super dog one one of the coolest dog and Handler teams I've ever worked with like I I got to admit these these guys are putting in work and and this dog was a hammer man anything he saw was a nail and he was just wanting to just tap just Hammer those Nails everywhere he saw him but again clear-headed dog we're up there we're doing sit down stand and the dog is just sitting there we're like in between reps and we're just mean me and the Handler are talking and then all of a sudden you see the dog kind of start looking around and he sees this guy on the out of the corner of his eye curled up in a fetal position and the dog just goes for him and and everyone's like ah and fortunately the dog was back tied the Handler grabbed the back line prevented him from getting a bite and the guy who was curled up the officer uh he like sprung into action like and he I don't know how he moved so fast from from being in that position and being like feeling as unwell as he was that day he narrowly avoided just getting hammered by this dog and uh it was it was hilarious because one it was safe and the things I W walked away from that is like always secure your environment no matter what training you're doing because again dogs bite cat scratch horses kick and we were doing there was no bite there was no bite equipment we weren't even on a bite apparatus and we were all calm there was no no one was yelling there was no like and but the dog I and I after after I had asked I'm like had this dog seen a passive suspect in training where the dog where the like the Handler or the the the the the suspect is curled up and that that dog had seen passive suspects in training and was taught and trained to hammer people that are in those in those fetal positions because they deal with drug addicts and non-compliant combative suspects and things like that um and it was just it was just another teaching moment that like hey man like when you're working with dogs secure your environment make sure everyone is safe check your equipment before you use it before you bring a new dog onto the field inspect their collars inspect their harnesses inspect the lines you'll be using make sure they're not frayed out so that because had had that back tie failed boom someone would have been nuked and and we'd have been we wouldn't have been laughing about it right yeah but and that goes to where pictures are important right for the dogs pictures and context right the dogs learn oh I've

seen this picture before I know what to do yes you guys don't have to tell me I mean I imagine I mean I don't I'm not wanted to say I'm a dogsy I'm not a dog psychic here so I'm not claiming I know what was what was going on exactly in the dog's mind but I imagine he's sitting there like thinking gosh this is boring like tap to sit tap to down tap to stand like this is lame stuff I do way more exciting stuff than this and he just turns and happens to see some dude looking like a a a non-responsive suspect and he's like I'll take him out Wham you know it's an active dog right he's like you guys totally active dog like so tell me what to do yeah you're not telling me what to do so I got to figure out how to get you guys excited oh man that was it and it got everyone excited it was it was funny that was like myg funny it would not have been funny if it wasn't safe if we had not had a because dogs dogs are dangerous and even the tiniest I've seen Tiny Doodles lace up someone on their mouth and give them stitches like on the day they're getting their wedding photos taken like you know and these these mini dogs these like even the tiniest of dogs can disfigure people you know yeah but that and that's where like I listen to what BART said you know that says and there's a lot of times what I remember one thing he said is like never do bite work without protection you know but then you see people wearing the suit not like a sleeve but a suit jacket yeah and shorts and no pants no pants or shorts or stuff like that yeah and not only that they're sending the dog it's not like they have it on the back tie where you could or you know holding the backline where you let them come up and then Target right they're sending the dog on a person with only a jack pet right and every time I see that I think a Bart saying like his famous thing mhm that's the point right the dog at some point may decide hey I don't want to bite the suit this time I'm GNA go easier down below yeah and now you know at at worst at best you just have a you know a scar at worst now you're running to the hospital yeah but that's like my doberman uh Willow my old Doberman Willow yeah I knew how she was right she'll try to bite you forget about the sleep I remember I I got a worker one one evening yeah well we went to a person that has a lot of experience with dogs and actually has titled dogs in multiple sports right and we wanted to do some bite work and we had uh she was on a static backline right it wasn't I wasn't controlling she was on a static backline and he came out with no apron no jacket no pants like nothing right igp sleeve normal clothes yeah first

time seeing the dog so I said hey I said make sure you know where the end of the line is because she likes to come underneath the sleeve like to get you yeah and the person was like yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm good so we come in right bark and hold b b told her to bite she bit the sleeve and while he's there I don't know I don't remember what he did but she was on the sleeve and she's like forget this right she let go and she punched underneath the sleeve and I couldn't tell if he got her if she got him right on the chest like on the stomach right but I think she did because he kind of looked you know when you kind of look like I think she got him uhuh but right then I was like I told I told you before we started right why do you think I told you I'm not some idiot that just found a dog on the street yeah and just told you like oh be careful she bites I was like no I was trying to keep you safe and telling you she will come bite you can I then he then he put up tones so he knew exactly where the end of that line was let me let me Venture a comment here now I I don't mean this to be like at all judgmental but this is an observation I've seen is usually the helpers trainers um decoys that have that type of revado in their approach to working with a with a new dog especially let alone just any dog those are typically individuals that have not been bit seriously before because and I I'll be the first to say I was one of those guys honestly before my first five to six years well I'd been bit I my my first serious bite happened when I was like three years into like learning helper work and decoy work um and it was like I got punctured on my lips like got a little like a I got fanged in the lip it wasn't serious it didn't require a trip to the hospital I just super glued it shut everything was fine but it wasn't until the experience where I nearly hung it all up and just said I'm done with dogs all together where I got bit in the face it wasn't until that point that I really started taking this work seriously regardless of the level of the dog the experience the the the the maturity of the dog I take every dog seriously and even I mean I walk into a pet home and I take that situation seriously right I walk in on a doodle that I'm going to evaluate for dog aggression or resource guarding or any number of other Mal behaviors that clients are reporting about their pet I take that dog seriously now and I'm like hey please put a leash on your dog don't let him you know just don't let him freely come up to some random stranger you know I control the environment so much more and and that's typically what

I see is people like that they have have not been seriously injured by a dog which is fortunate for them but also it's unfortunate because it doesn't it does not inform their behavior to to be a little bit more safe that's that's the downside to it is fortunately they haven't been hurt before which is good but the unfortunate aspect of it is that their behavior is still a little reckless maybe um or or or unsafe um and that's the problem with with it is because being was the the best teacher I've ever had it taught like it affected so many things I I changed so many things that I was doing that I didn't know I needed to change and I you know it was just really the best thing for me um yeah yeah and it let you start uh looking at the dog with more detail right now you you look at the dog and seeing like okay what is going on with this dog yeah to see if there's any signs like okay I this is a possibility here right from what I look at yeah that's a it's I understand maybe like the 20 people before had said yeah my dog is serious or whatever you know but still you should in the back of your mind say okay let me I've never seen this dog let me just take them never trust them right like half the time they're making it up because it's they're just blown smoke blowing up their ego right and half the time they don't know what they've got on their on the end of the leash they they don't know their dog well enough to tell you accurately what their dog will do I think it goes the opposite if the person says the dog is serious usually the the dog is not serious and if they say oh it's okay right blah blah blah now you have to be careful because that dog is just waiting to bite you that's that's really true yeah yeah it's like oh he's all right he does he doesn't really like do too much like that's the dog you got to keep an eye on yeah but that uh yeah that's I I tried you know whenever I go to somebody to tell them you know what I I know about my dog you know so that they're prepared a little bit more than just seeing it you know for the first time yeah just what to look for yeah but uh did you have any other any any other stories yeah from that last school I had in Colorado first I mean it was it was such a cool it was such a cool facility right it was it was a county sheriff's department they had been the recipient of a wonderful donor or a wonderful group of donors that really donated they had this amazing Immaculate turf field with you know equipment so we had a really wonderful area fenced in area secure facility to to let some of these dogs go off leash and you you know just put the pedal to the metal and see what

they're capable of doing um we also were able to use um you know uh elevated boxes for for training dopamine box we did a lot of that we did tracking on articles even started teaching dogs to hunt for nails in the ground and we did classroom we did scent wheel work and it it was interesting because you saw every dog at their own pace some dogs really took off with ignition faster than others and then others there were there were a couple other dogs that were a little slower but like by the end of the school their ignition was it had it had changed and you know don't train the dog that you want train the dog like we we want to train the dog we want right but we don't always have that opportunity to train the dog we want we have to train the dog that's in front of us and sometimes the dog that's in front of us is not always the dog that we want it presents us with maybe it's got less ignition or it's got It's got some maybe it's uh you know it's stuck in one aspect of its learning that we just have to be patient with um and the other thing was I learned patience is huge right you know because in Nao a lot of times it's it's slow in the beginning it it's it's actually really quite slow for a lot of people in the beginning and I think that's what one thing that turns people away from it is because be before it takes effect they they give up or they pull the rip C and say ah this must not be for me it must not be working for my dog right and and a lot of times I had to be the one to come in and say hey look I know you're getting frustrated with this I know you want to see your dog performing better but you just just trust the process let the dog do and when the dog learns on their own without being forced to learn it's you'll you'll see it pick up and I'll I'll be honest I remember speaking to uh I I called my wife after after the first day of class and I was like she was telling me asking me how it was and I said oh it's going you know it's going well but like I'm actually really concerned there's we're going to make some progress with some of these dogs and and she just reminded me she like hey you know like this is the same thing you said in your last three classes right it's always day one and two you're like oh I don't know if the dogs are gonna do it you like because I'm sweating because I'm here and I'm expected to deliver some results for people right and really I put put a lot of pressure on myself and so I'm like okay I want to give them a good experience I want to be able to help them solve problems and fix their problems with their dogs but more importantly in in the gold School we're

there to teach people how to fish not to give them the fish right um to to use them an analogy and it was just a good reminder to me was like right around day three so Wednesday middle of the week hump day of of class that's when we started seeing some of these dogs really take off like we were working the unforced force fetch some and then finally some of these dogs were just like really grabbing onto the onto the hold off object and that's where the turnaround came and then for one dog it was really it wasn't until Thursday where the dog's ignition really started to take off you know and and by then it's like oh wow you know you're sweating bolets and so I learned a lot myself as a teacher um I think the students did learn a lot but I think for me another takeaway from that and experience was that you know we have to train the dog in front of us not the dog that we want our dog to be you know um yeah I think and also when it comes to that it also goes where you can't have you have to have a goal for the training and for the session but the goal cannot be you you keep training until you reach that goal because you have to that's where you have to look at the dog too yeah you can't just keep going okay no I'm gonna make you do this because you should be able to do it yeah right that's when you have to stop and go okay why is this not working and say like you said maybe I have to come back tomorrow it might take this dog three or four days to do it where other dogs it took one day yeah right but when they get it it'll be just as strong as you won't be able to tell the difference right exactly and and to the to these students credit I mean these students are people who have industry experience far beyond my own experience and and I came into the class saying hey guys I it's a humbling experience for me to be here in a in a in a position of an instructor because you guys are in Industry you guys are actually boots on the ground doing a lot of this work in the field and have far greater experience in a lot of things than I do I just hope that I can maybe be a coach present some ideas that give you new ways to think about your training that might benefit you but it was I mean they came with open minds and I I was super appreciative of the the atmosphere that they fostered because everyone was there to learn everyone was there to help out we were we able to make jokes about the things that we were doing and constantly reminding ourselves of doing and everyone just it just it was an overall incredible experience and it was definitely a gold school that I'm going to probably remember um uh for the rest

of my my time teaching these schools is that it it was such a positive experience for me I walked away a better teacher I know it was the same thing when we co-instructor in Vegas year you know that it's just you can't help but not walk away being better in your skill set you know having gone through that process especially if you come with the right mindset so it's a blessing to do what we love to do and to you know spend it with good good quality people so yeah yeah really really have a good time doing these things and I'm again you know we've got a school coming up in uh dece or sorry not December October out in Texas um we met a lot of great people through the schools and have been connected so looking forward to seeing some people out there at Marty's facility right you know he's got an awesome facility super super well put together and really looking forward to work with him but what are some of the things you've learned doing gold schools and what are some of the things that you enjoy about teaching that program well it's it makes you think more in depth right about things you do already because you might a lot of times you've reached a point where a lot of things you don't think about what you're doing you're just doing them you know right whereas when you're teaching you have to take show all the steps right you have to teach all the steps that you may not think of while you're doing it you know you have to break it down so that the person can follow those steps later you know uh and especially like what you talked about when you're trying to fix problems a lot of times there's problems that are should not be fixed in a day you know that's where you have to teach the building blocks which will later lead to the the point where now you can fix your own problems because you because you have those building blocks right you have those steps right and that's what that's the whole thing with Naval po too you know it's yeah is there a possibility to fix things right now yes um but the power is about the you know process foundation and the process and the the learning from the dog and that's why like you said the beginning sometimes it's slow is because the slow part is laying the foundation and once you have that that rest comes fast after that you know and in the gold school is like the same thing you have different people you have people that learn in different ways you have different dogs uh and trying to figure out the way to communicate those things so that each person understands in their own way you know I think that's the challenge right yeah is that and then I mean I having both of us there was in our last school

was pretty good yeah you know because we say things differently too you know we teach differently so although we're pretty we're on the same page as far as the the things we're teaching you know we you say it differently than I would you know just because of our experiences so sure sure yeah interesting conversational topics here you know leaving yeah it's going all over the place I mean we're about to hit summer uh and you're coming out here I'm hosting Marco um for a for a igp protection Workshop um in a couple weeks that's going to be a lot of fun we've got uh all working spots are filled we've got some really cool dogs uh I think everyone's going to have a good time I'm looking forward to to some great conversations kicking back and just like really spending a nice solid three or four days training dogs how many how many people are going to be there I I'll have to check but I mean we have working spots we've got a few audits probably 15 maybe 15 no more than 20 but but that's how I would like it I'd prefer to have you know like fewer people that I know really well than a bunch of people who I don't know so well or don't have the opportunity to get to know too well because there's too many people so yeah really looking forward to it yeah me too it's gonna be good oh one thing that was funny I will say this one one of the students uh had asked about um how does how does all this apply to pet dogs and I'm like like this is halfway into the class I'm like it all does you know and um but that but that was an interesting thing because it was I was like oh wow I'd been spending so much time talking about applications for like working dogs and Sport dogs because everyone there had working and Sport dogs and that it didn't dawn on me that there were still there was still interest in learning how na poo applied to pet dogs so at that point I was like it it gave me reason to pause and kind of backpedal a little bit so that I can make sure to incorporate conversation about how does clack clack influence dopamine or or influence um how does clack clack in the dopamine box influence pet dogs in their day-to-day lives how do you use that for the betterment of pet dogs and pet dog training or your own personal dogs that live as pets um how does the unforced force fetch um how does you know the treat and train indirect reward direct reward how does that all of that come together to to make a life with a pet better and so I was like really really interesting question but it kind of stopped me in my tracks I was like oh whoa I wasn't I wasn't really like kind of appro taking that school with that approach but it was good so yeah yeah

that's when when you have your mind set you're when you're thinking one way and then when you're talking about it you're kind of all your explanations might come through that side like the working dogs instead of the pet side right yeah uh but that's where that's the thing you can use that system and tweak it maybe for pet dogs versus working dogs versus you know police dogs sport dogs it it's it's about understanding it and then knowing how to implement right one yes absolutely right and that reminds me of one more story that from that school was there was this dog who was a a search dog a detection dog and we were doing scent wheel and we had a scent wheel in in one of their uh uh facility classrooms and these classrooms are like huge they're like 50 by 40 feet classroom so they're really big um and we have the scent wheel there and we're just shaping the dog presenting it with the sample odor in the jar in the Mason jar and then sending it to the scent wheel so that and then we would click and pay when the dog you know sometimes we would have to successfully approxim IM the dog getting closer to the right jar and sometimes we would just wait for the dog with the ignition to go to the jar and then we'd click it and you know he'd come back and um but there was this one dog in particular that was had had already had some training on it and was already I think it was already certified as a Firearms detection dog so we were doing spent casings right um gunshot residue on spent casings and the dog was a little bit flattered than what the Handler had said it was used to being like in its search patterns so it was interesting and after a couple of sessions on it I was like you know what let's get rid of the leash because this dog was being super compliant on the leash and it was like as soon as you cut that cord that dog changed into a completely different dog and so it's you you saw how the dog was trained the dog when it was on leash the leash was a a cue to be in utter control utter compliance right because that school that that dog was walking the school hallways so you can't just have a dog pin p pinballing off of the locker hallways but in the training classroom as soon as we took that leash off you saw the level of ignition just jump and it was really interesting and it's things like that that you know allowed us to to decide that like hey maybe having this dog just train in a in an environment where you can allow him to shape right where he has enclosure or you control the uh the size of the space that he's working in I think that might be better and we actually ended up doing that and we saw that's when the dog

really started to make huge huge improvements so it was really interesting there are just subtle things like that that you might not pick up on might be CES to the dog to stay in a certain state of mind or a certain Drive state right like the leash it was a compliance Quee as soon as you cut that leash boom that dog is like okay let's go find my odor so I can find my toy you know yeah it's the same as uh a friend of mine that got a m and wanted to do wanted to be a service dog and wanted to do like igp stuff so right from the beginning I said okay I said get a collar one collar that you're going to have for igp whenever you do igp you put this collar on right and I remember it was an orange collar I think it was that's when they do all the crazy stuff and you know bite work and running and you know everything that requires energy I said but when you're done take that color off I said when you're doing any kind of service do training put on the harness right and but you have to be diligent right you have to do this every single time yeah so that dog now is a crazy like that dog should do igp right it's not a service dog but when you put on that harness all the energy leaves it's a Quee for a different state of mind and it is calm in public and just is very stable whatever Once you turn off take off the harness and you know you put on the other which I don't think she puts on that other color anymore but the harness itself is the cue to be calm anything else the dog is just you know energetic and all the energy comes out but and that's the thing is if you are consistent you and very very you know um disciplined yourself you can like you said you can cue the emotion of the dog to whatever you want yeah you know going back to reflex response on Q right you know so to the people who question whether reflex response is really capable in obedience I mean the answer is you know if if if you can get a dog to salivate on a bell you can get a mind State on a q right yeah exactly it's exactly the same thing so and it can't help it right right they feel that certain way I think that's where um the thinking is like that thinking can change the way you train because now you look at everything you do like you said that that the police dog he saw the dog that was I mean the person that was in prone POS like in a fetal position not moving passive decoy y and somewhere in the past that was a Quee right that became a visual cue like hey I gotta go bite this person he almost got lit up man and again I'm beating a dead horse here it was only funny because we were safe right yeah exactly you that's the if it wasn't like you said it would be a

different story yeah yep that happened to that happened with uh Willow too where the we were doing bite work at a seminar and I was not holding the back the the back tie somebody else was it so somebody else was holding the line I was next to Willow and then there was a the helper with the sleeve uhhuh so did some bite work what some barket holes blah blah blah gave the bite he slipped the sleeve and she spat the sleeve out and went for his leg right because he was standing there uhuh and she would have got him he was quick right she moved he moved his leg out of the way and at the same time the back tie pulled her and then she turned and she's like oh I see somebody else I'm going for her but that's when she took off and uh like I there was no I had no line I had nothing like nothing physically to restrain her but when as she was going there and it was a friend of mine also that had trained with her and I we both like yelled at her like no and she went and she she muzzle punched him in the stomach jeez and then came around and I told her to down and she downed and then I went and grabbed the leash but like like you said a dog bites a cat scratches and a horse kicks like B says all the time yeah you don't know when it's gonna happen yeah well good stuff I think that brings me to the end of all my contributions for this topic or this conversation thread it's always fun reminiscing dogs talking funny dog stories but again at the end of it I guess the one note I do want to leave this topic on is like we can't have fun with dogs if we can't be safe so like and you can't have fun with dogs if they can't be healthy right so the way we started this conversation out was talking about ways to keep your dogs healthy obviously we didn't go into near any like we barely even scratch the surface but like learn the field that you're in learn what's what your dogs are prone to what you need to keep in mind for to keep your dogs healthy safe well and and then dog training can be fun but dog training will not be fun if you can't meet the the the conditions for safety the conditions for um Health on the part of your dog and on on your part as well right it takes it takes health and stamina and strength to to handle and run a dog too so from from a from a human perspective so you know do what you need to do to keep yourself healthy as well and you know with all of those in place you have a recipe for a really good a really good activity or or sense an outlet for fun great bonding opportunities with your dog so yeah anyways but and this I this gave me some ideas that I wanted to talk about maybe in another uh

episode okay after we after we get off this write them down yeah okay so I will so we don't forget them write them down um but we do appreciate everyone who dial uh who Tunes in I almost said dial in right was it a radio show yeah yeah yeah we're not radio uh but thank you to all the callers for call in we do appreciate all the all the viewers who tune in to watch our show um we appreciate those who shared it we appreciate uh if you'd continue to share it help us get the word out we are working on getting these uh uploaded to the Apple podcast so that they can be streamable so that's something to look forward to it's something we enjoy we don't we don't make any money off of this uh this is just something that really Michael and I have done just to record our own conversations because we figured hey we're already talking about this stuff and we end up talking about some really interesting topics might as well record them so fortunately there's no audio or there's no advertising interruptions that you have to worry about no no promotions from us um if we are promoting something it's because you know we found it useful in training so really there's it's this is just all like all for the sake of the betterment of those that are interested in principles of modern dog training and and Nao so hopefully this is helpful to you guys let us know um you can thank us by likeing sharing and subscribing and sharing this with your with your friends and family um and and your networks that that's how you can pay us back so especially sharing it right let other people know if you found value in it or if you didn't find Value in it like or if you think we're stupid scream scream it from the rooftops too you know we don't know what we're talking about that still draw that'll still draw attention to it so you know whether you like it or not share how you feel one way or the other so appreciate it if you don't like what we're saying then tell the people you that you hate to listen to us anyways tell everybody that's it for another I think this was episode nine for us yeah that's it episode um it was it was it was a really good one I enjoyed it good conversation um hopefully everyone else enjoyed it as well all right talk to you soon yeah we'll talk soon