에피소드 66: Natalia Balabanov

Yeah, this is, this was the same level of good training and being professional, good approach with people and dogs and patients. So that was really what I saw first from the videos. And then I, we met in Germany. And when you talk about the videos, you're talking about the training without conflict. Yes. What was interesting, tell us about the pirate stories of the videos, right? Well, it was a... Which is classic for East European countries. I didn't know it's a classic, but apparently it was. Yes. So, yeah, a friend of mine that I, that I trained with, yeah, he brought this DVD, like there was no cover, no nothing and... Just pirate copies. Pirate copies. Underground. Ivan Balavano training without conflict. Everybody had them, right? But at the time I didn't even think that there is a... It's like, yeah, I'm getting some... That's what they did with the book too. Video. Oh, really? No. That I didn't know. They were like, eventually I saw it in, translated in Russian. I'm like, okay. No, that I didn't even know, yeah. But it was, it was such a normal thing that I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll watch it. And yeah, it got me in. So there was, from the videos to, you know, as far as the training and all this, exactly when we met, I saw the same level and it's like, yeah, like you met the expectation. The box was checked. Yes, yes, yes. The other part that was actually like very cool, like you were just a cool person. Like very funny, approachable. Yes, like, yeah. Cool person to hang out with. One of the things probably, and I'm sure that's going to be interesting for many people, but some, some of the listeners for sure can really relate and are very curious. And this is the, how does it work to be so competitive and sometimes to be the student, sometimes to be the competitor and still remain partners, husband and a wife, and do this over and over, back to back again. What is the, the easy and the difficult parts? This is what probably people would be curious to know. Well, first of all, it took us a while to, to be able to, to separate what's going on on the field. And then like five minutes later, we're at home and to forget about all what happened on the field and just have a normal life. So that, that took us a while to, to master this. It took a while for sure. I mean, we used, oh, it took a while. Yeah, we used to. What it means a while is we will go out and we will have a training session and for whatever reason we will be, I said so, no, you didn't, no, whatever. Some, I mean, we would find what to disagree on. Anybody that works together with their partner, spouse, et cetera,

knows exactly what we're talking about. And those situations to be able to, to learn how to be, it took us some time. To where we, we just had a training session this morning as most mornings. You think you reach certain level and you think you know everything. Or at least like you can be equal at certain, you know, points and, you know, and, and then I like felt like, okay, like I'm dealing with a two world, a two times world champion. And I'm like. But still your husband. Right. Right. So. Well, back in a different time of my life, I was a, I, I, I was a ski instructor and I was a surf instructor and this was just my, my younger years. That was kind of my life. Summertime, I'm on the black sea. Wintertime, I'm in the mountains. Well, we try to learn to how to ski and she wasn't into it at all. She was like, I've tried it. It's not fun. It's whatever. Somehow I convinced her eventually. So. Well, guess who is the instructor? And I'm teaching her and I'm kind of in front of her doing, you know, the pizza moves, if you know, skiing shit. And she's doing pretty good actually. Like really, really good. However, anytime I tell her that she's wrong or there is something more to do, she just flips out and gets like, ooh. And then there was a moment when I'm a baby. Like if I'm, can you just think of me as the instructor right now, not your husband? Like I am just, or we hire another instructor. So this was a very interesting one, right? Yeah. And then. At the time I couldn't think this way. Like back then I just couldn't separate those two things. So like, are you trying to teach me something? No, it's normal. I mean, I think this is kind of the fun part. I mean, we end up always kind of getting hot about it. And eventually at the end find a way to laugh about it because it is funny. But also the level of, like we both are super competitive. Right. Right. That's both of our personalities. That's for sure. It's, it's, it's, it's good and it's bad, you know? I mean it, but I'm not done with the story because I learned my lesson. So we, we did okay with the ski. I mean, she's now hooked. We are definitely already having plans to go. Where, where we're going on vacation skiing and everything. She, she, like I'm super happy that we are, this is one of the best things. Now, we go to the summertime fun. The, well, I, when I'm talking surfing, I was a wind surf, you know? Not, not the, not the actual surfing like in, in Brazil or Hawaii or whatever. But then I made a better choice. Instead of going through that struggle and frustration and fighting. Guess what I did? Hire an instructor. I hire an instructor.

So she can be falling down and getting up and falling down and getting up. And not yelling at anybody. Right, right, right. She was, she was a true student. And I was sitting, having my drink and watching. And I'm like, yep. Yeah. We are almost ready to go together now. But, but with dog training, it's a, it's a, I mean, it's not easy, you know? And we have, at least we have found a way, just as I was saying today, this morning, we, we were training. You, me, Taylor, Melody. And there is always something that, like in training. I mean, there is always some kind of miscommunication. It doesn't matter that we have trained for, I don't even know now how many years together. And you would think everything should be ironed out and we should be, there is always this little, well, and, and it could be also because I am thinking, well, we've been training for so long. So that's a given, we should, and so these little things, and then we get into this. Right, right. Show me. Right now it's actually. Let me see it. Yes, yes. Right? No, no, no. And, but, now we're having fun with it. Yes, yes. Where we are truly having fun with it. Now we're having fun. And we're taking notes at the same time of what we need to change. Yeah. But if we need to go, ah, or whatever, and then laugh about it and then go back. Well, I think I also got to the point that I really realized that I got so humbled. And, you know, because my thinking was, like, okay, not my thinking was, like, I'm, like, trying to, like, understand my whole journey from, you know, like, how I started and, and the whole thing, you know, it's just that, um. You should mention a little bit because, I mean, you spent so much time just going to, to what, what was it, the camp training? I will tell in a second, but, um, just, and it's not that, oh, yeah, I could say I was lucky. I wasn't lucky. I was just knew that what I want to do, like, anything I would touch in my life, like, it's either you go for it or you don't do it. There was no half way doing things. Like, and the moment I, like, got into dogs and I'm, like, oh, my gosh, this is super cool. I want to do it. And it's, like, fulfilling me. I love dogs. It's just, like, a, you know, both ways. And it became number one priority. Just, pshh. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like, like, anything I would do in my life, it's either I do it or I don't do it. Like, there's no in the, in the middle. Like, half ass. Like, I just don't know this word. So, it's either all in or you just don't. So, I went all in. And, and, and, and I don't know how.

And from the beginning, I had this, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm just gonna. I'm gonna go world champion. Like, this was, this was, and I, and I really meant it. I wasn't just saying it. And, and somehow, um, from the beginning, I was around people that already been to world championships, did quite well. Um, so I had this, um, chance to, to be around really good trainers. And, and somehow, I also knew instinctively what is the bad training or what is the training that it, it just doesn't make sense to me. So, I, I, and I would go, um, I would go watch. So, you would kind of question knowing you and your personality, even though when you started, and this is my guest. But, even if it was, let's say, let's say, I mean, you've trained with Edgar and so many others. But, even if they suggest something, you would always be like, well, but why are we doing this? Because it doesn't quite make sense, right? It doesn't make sense to me, uh, on a level of deep communication with the dog. Is my dog understanding really what I'm trying to tell him on her? Are we speaking the same language? Um, and, and that's something that just was very natural to me to begin with. So, yeah, I mean, I, I, since I got hooked, there was no weekend that I, just every weekend I would be somewhere in a different country in Europe training dogs. I would spend weeks. And we're not talking, yeah, we're not talking a weekend. We're talking a, a week long camp, training camp. Yes, yes. I would go, yeah, I spend weeks camping. Which was a lot of fun, right? Right. I mean, in Czech Republic, Austria, I mean, any countries you can think of in, in Europe, like I would be going and, and watching, um, training. So, let me, let me, like I, you know what I'm thinking about somehow because of that is, um, like when you, when you are training and you're preparing a dog, any of your dogs, what, what goes through your mind during this preparation stages? Like what, how, how, how do you see the whole picture of, okay, I'm training this today and tomorrow I'm going to do this, but this is where I want to get. Like how, what, what happens in your mind? You mean like, like let's say right now? Sure. Any, yeah. Like, I mean, any, like you can think of, well, with Glinda, which we're going to definitely talk about, but then you have a very young dog that you're training, mondioring. So, what, what I'm curious to hear is, uh, how do you see the day-to-day training and the preparation and that dream that you're chasing and, and how does that, like, what happens every day?

So, always starving for perfection, which is a wrong, for perfection in my world. Perfection. Yes, in my world, how I, um, perceive certain exercises. Um, if it's just. Do you think you're the kind of trainer that is more of the let's go, let's get it done or taking more time or how? No, no, no, definitely. What's the pace? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Definitely let's, it's not, uh, let's go and get it done. It's never that way because there could be training that we just gonna do a couple exercises, but I, I think I always have in mind to, to make sure that I touch every exercise. That is, that is not forgotten, that it's, that it's touched and when I, so let's say, but just like, oh, so, okay, I'm, I'm gonna do the dumbbells. Yeah, and I'm gonna work on the dumbbells. Sometimes it can be just the flat dumbbell and I'm just gonna focus on this or go through the, all of it. Um, but then I, I gotta make sure that I touch all the, all the pieces of my, of the routine. Um, yeah, that's how I keep it in mind that I feel that I worked on them. Um, I, I put the same amount of time to each exercise, each part. It's not even exercise. It's each part of the routine. The chain of the behaviors. The chain of the behaviors, the, the exercise, the, all the leadings. Like, I feel that I worked on this throughout the, um, leading up to the, the competition. Then I worked on this and, and I'm satisfied and, and peaceful that it's done. Like, it's done and it's done in a way that I know when I put it together on the competition, it's gonna work out. Next follow-up question. Next follow-up question. move and I am not going to have surprises. And I kind of, so how about do you, like let's say tomorrow, it's just another training day as it always is, right? We don't know when it's Sunday. We don't know when it's national holiday. For us, somebody has to tell us. One more thing I just thought of, unless there is something that me personally does not feel, like you can tell me it looks good. And you know, like I've said that many times, but I don't feel it's good. It does not feel good to me. You don't have the confidence in it. Yes, and you can tell me from the outside, it was beautiful and it was nice. But I know that I don't have that 100% confidence. And yeah, I always say the word feel, like I have to feel the harmony. And like I have to feel, I'm just missing the word right now. It's the... You don't have the confidence to trust that this is a solid behavior probably or what?

That you're gambling a little bit and it's not like almost guaranteed that you're going to have it. Like, I guess I have still internal struggle. Let's say how much time we spend on the healing. And it just had to come, like there was just so many pieces that I had to work on. You know, you know, like how many things is going through my head. How many things I have to watch for. And how long it took me to just go and do it. And it felt like now I can just do it. You know, it was like my internal struggle and learning. And... Yeah. Yeah, there was a lot of new pieces that just had to come together while right now. Now... And I didn't enjoy it. I mean, it's just when you're like... Well, yes. And then to kind of bring the listeners to the point here. The way we heal, the way we teach healing, it's a little... Not a little. It's actually radically different than the vast majority of dog trainers. And it's not about being good or bad. It's just what we are trying to show in healing. And to us, free healing starts with walking naturally. And naturally means you don't put that hand out there and keep the dog in a pocket in a safe place. But actually bring the hands and move the hands in a normal way. Allow the dog not to velcro themselves and feel safe. But really... So all these little details that are so little, but they start to get more and more appreciated, which we like, they are not easy to accomplish. Like, you can very quickly, with some food luring or some certain targeting, magnetic balls, you name it, you can get to the level of so-called competition healing that everybody would have. But if you look at the healing that, like, let's say you did this year at all competitions, it's a very different look. And I know that some people can recognize it, but some people do. And some people recognize it kind of subconsciously. I think that's a good word. But what you're talking about is these elements of different pieces of the training that, to some, are not a big deal. To some, are very minor changes. And they are definitely the type of trainers that do see it and do appreciate it, however they understand what it takes. And it's not easy to accomplish. So that's definitely a thing. But the thing, that's what's actually drawn me to your training from the beginning. Because, as I said, like, before I actually got your videos, I've seen all the big trainers. I mean, they're still big trainers. They're still the world champions. All of them. And I've watched the training.

I was going and watching. And there was just always something missing. Like, there was always something that... It's kind of like, where can we do a little bit more and a little bit different? And instead of trying to trick the dog into doing something without understanding what they do, really give them a good, meaningful, okay, this is what I do and this is why I'm doing it. And there is that connection. And I've tried it all. I've tried all these methods. Then, of course, you go to a seminar. You get excited. You, you know, like, all the bus and whatever. And I do a little bit. And then I'm, like, sitting in my backyard with the dog. And I'm like, okay, this is just, like, something is wrong here. Like, I just don't... It looks a little fake. Right. To us. Right. But let's... I don't want to... Like, that's kind of... What... Where I was going with is, like, let's say, when we're talking about your training and what's in your head and how you go about it. And then, like, going back to this, is it... How do you analyze and when do you make a plan? Like, you know me. Like, I get out and I train. And I think that's where we are different. And you put quite a bit of thinking at... After training and in the evening. And you... I don't know if you create a plan for the next time. But you kind of analyze way more than I do for the next time you're going to train. Tell me... Tell us about this more. I guess what will be easier is, like, let's say you knew that we're going to do obedience today with Linda. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What was my plan? But it wasn't... What I'm interested in, what I kind of want everybody to kind of get a feel of is... When was exactly that you decided what you're going to be doing? Like, how does that happen? And maybe today was a little bit different. But for the most part... Yeah. Maybe today was a little more spontaneous. But I don't think you are as spontaneous as I am. No. I always... Yeah. I always have in mind what I'm going to do for sure. It was just because... I mean, I haven't done... Like, after the World Championships, I haven't really done much with her as far as obedience. I think I do maybe two sessions. And I've done some dumbbells and recalls and I think sendaways. So, of course, for me, it's natural right now I have to work on the healing. I have to work on the bow turns. I have to, you know... And for this, like, I need you to be around. So... That's a good time for me to, like, okay, that's what we're going to do today. Um... But besides today... Like, let's take some... Let's take a month before the last World Championship you were in. Yeah, okay. And you're about to go out and train.

How does it... How does your mind... Like, when do you create... Mm-hmm. Because I know that this is really where we differ. Like, I'm... It comes very... Like, I... And maybe... Maybe I do have a plan, ultimately. Maybe something goes on in my head in the background. But I don't feel that... Like, I... I know that there are times that you just sit down and you analyze and you're making plans. Even though we're watching a movie or whatever. But you're really getting ready for tomorrow for training. That's clear to me. Okay. The one thing that comes into my mind is... Um... I know which exercises I have very solid. Um... And again, I still need to touch up on them. So, you know, it's... It's... It's there. Um... And there are exercises that... Require more... More work. Do I... This is not even work for... For the dog. It's work for me. And... I think I'm trying to always get... The best... Besides the exercises. But the feeling. The... From my dog. You know, like the... The emotions. The right emotions. Um... Is it the battle of... Having the structure and the reliability and the emotions and... Yes. When to... Yes. Really break free and go crazy. Or when to keep going on with the routines. Is that kind of where it's going or it's different? Man, I have to... Have to think on this one a little bit. Like I can help you. Like I know. Like one of... Yeah, help me out because... Some of the differences between us. Like you can... You will go to a trial. Or you will go to a training session. And then you will watch it. Like you would watch it if I filmed it on the phone. Or if it was a trial. And you would watch it. And you would watch it. And if we have a counter, you probably are getting... You're making your own video viral on your phone. Okay. If we go from this. Yeah. I've always been watching my performances. Yeah. On the competition. I mean, I could watch it and watch it. And watch it. And watch it. And watch it. I mean, we're talking... I will break down... So deep, deep analization. I mean, no question about it. I will break down my whole obedience. All protection. From the moment I walk on the field. Greet the judge. Go to the starting point. And I watch... I watch... Every step of my routine. And what goes into your head? Like what are the... Oh, I immediately see... What are you taking as far as... What are the takeaways? What do you... Are you immediately saying, Okay, this is what I need to really work on? Or how does it go? So... Yeah. I see the things that I... Got to work on. I can make better. And I know I can make better. Because I also... At certain point, I'm like, Okay, this is just... I better leave that alone.

Because I'm just going to break something else. Um... The other thing that it's... And I've been always that way. And I always had a certain picture in my head. Um... How I want to show my dog. And how I want my dog to look. Or feel. More. Not to look. Because... Yeah, look is... Just how I want my dog to move. And... And... It's the sync between the two of you. The sync, the harmony. I know that. You know, all these words. But that I'm really striving for this. So you watch something. And then... What got... When... Like again, back to the original question. When do you think... Or can you even tell? Because... Like I cannot for myself. But I think that you... Your brain goes very different. When do you... Say... This is what I want to work on. The next session. And it can be five minutes before the session. Or it can be the night before. Or a week before. But you... Like I have a feeling that you do make this commitment to... I... This is what I need to do. When does it happen? So... Yeah. I... After watching the... The performance. And watching how the dog goes. And you know... What is happening. The next thing I will do. I will watch myself. I will watch myself. To see if... Me as a handler. I did something. That my dog just haven't seen. You know... Being... Being on a big stage. Being nervous. Being... You know... All this. Like... Did I do something stupid? That my dog is just like... Oh my gosh. What did you just do? And if I... Those are very important moments to me. For sure. Because that... That... That happened to me many times. I'm like... I think... I'm okay. If there is something went wrong... Because it's losing points. That it's on you. And not the training of the dog. And that would be the big... That's like the first easy thing... That you can change. Right. It's like... What did I do? Did I say something... That my dog is like... What did you just say? Or did I move... Unnatural? Something that my dog is like... Why are you doing this? Like... So I'm... I'm looking at the dog. I'm looking... I'm looking at the mistakes... Mistakes. The things that I'm like... Okay. This... This should be better. And I'm like... Okay. But what did you do... That your dog behaved that way? And of course... Pretty much every time... I find something... That I did... And I have to make it better... For the next... Yeah. Next one. Yeah. Good. I think I like this. How do you think... We're different in this way? Like... What do you think... How do you think... I function this way? You don't watch your performances... As many times as I do. I definitely don't. Which... It's good and bad. Like I... But I just feel that I... I have it. But sometimes I'm wrong about it. Like I... For example...

How long was the... AWDF? It's been at least... Five, six months... Whatever. Right? Yeah. I still have not watched it. Because I kind of have... In my head... I have a... An ultimate... Picture of what I need. And... And one competition... Doesn't really force me... To change something. But for you... It's really... It's really... And it... I think it's a good thing... Because it kind of... Focuses you on... Well... I cannot let that go. I need to see how I can improve it. Right? Right. Because I also want to... Improve as a handler. I mean... I mean... My training changed... Style... You know... It evolved... And I always start to get better... So... And I don't want to mess up my dog... So... I'm like... I know it comes first with me... So... Yeah. So... You... I mean... We've done quite a bit... Even together... I mean... I don't know... How many times... Both of us... Were in at the same time... In the world championship... But... You have your own... Share of being... On the American team... You did it with a male... And a female... And... Sometimes people... People have the preferences... And even right now... You have a male... That you are training... For Mondio... That we're going to talk about... And you have the female... That you're doing IGP... How... Where do you stand... With... Male... Versus a female... Like... Where is your... Yeah... After training both... It doesn't matter to me... Good dog is a good dog... That's it... That's how simple it is... I used to think... Male... No... It's really... If there is a good dog... It's a good dog... There is no... Gender... Gender... On the... On the... On the... Human... Aspect... Of things... Like... Like... A female... Versus male... Competitor... What are the advantages... And disadvantages... And what do you think... What comes... What comes... Easier... And where is the part... That... You're like... Man... I wish I'm a guy right now... Or the other way around... Or I'm glad that I'm a... Female... Or does it make any difference? I don't think so... Not anymore... Not anymore... I used to think some weird things... You know... It's just... Right... You know... That... But I think it's like... When... As you... Actually... Um... So you think the... The kind of fake smiles... That the girl make... The judge... In the basic position... Or stuff like that... Yeah... Do you think that affects the judge or no? So I hope it doesn't... You know... This is... Like... It shouldn't... But do you think it does? It shouldn't... But do you think it does? Um... Me as a guy... If I have to say it... I think it definitely does... Even if... Even if you don't want to... Unless it's way too fake... And... It doesn't come... It really doesn't come...

Even a tiny bit... Uh... Interesting... I think it affects a guy... But you don't think so? Well... I mean... Let's start like this... Like how... You know... Like the... The... I think it's very cool conversation... When I think... I'll tell you something... A few days before... Okay... Long time ago... We're talking... Um... Yeah... We're talking... Beginnings... We're talking... 18... 20 years ago... Right? I had no clue... I... I just got into IGP... And... Whatever... Like I... For me... It was just like... Man... I just want to train my dog... I want to... You know... Like I want to... Grow... As a... As a... Handler... Matter to me... Sure... But I've heard that... From other... Women competitors... Yeah... Yeah... You know... So... You know... Which was like... Okay... Really... Like... Is there a thing? And... Yeah... Like... Which is... Which is... Ridiculous... But again... I've heard that... We do everything... Long time ago too... We do everything... To make the points... Or we should... I... I'll give... A little bit of a... Like... Let's say when... When I... I'm about to go to a competition... And I think... What would be my outfit be? What would I wear? My concern... My number one priority is always... How does the dog... Gonna see me... Within the field? Then... If I'm healing... How big and how floppy things are... Yeah... So I would be... Like... All of my... Well... I would say 99%... Of course I would care... A little bit about... How I look... But... For the most part... The main priority... And I think that's kind of... Most guys in the dog world... We think of... Let's be comfortable... And not confuse the dog... And perhaps find a way... Because of what we wear... Yeah... To help them... I feel that... It's not quite the same... With the women trainers... I... Can totally see it... But... That is not... Something that I would... I ever thought of... For me... Number one priority... Was like... I need to feel comfortable... Because I... If I don't feel comfortable... In the clothes I'm wearing... I'm just gonna... Let me stop you here... Because this is... Move weird... What a guy thinks... Of what is comfortable... And what a girl... Or a woman thinks... What is comfortable... It's... Like... As I was saying... Like... For me... Comfortable is... Hey... You and me... The dog... Right... And I feel that... Women... And it's... I think it makes sense... But... For me... For me... For me... It's... For me... It's... And I feel that... Women... I think it makes sense... If I... Probably... If I was a woman... I would... Also be this way... Is... What makes me feel comfortable... If I was a woman... Is also... How... Everybody sees me... Besides... How we heal together... Or something... Am I wrong...

Or... Or... Well... If you... I think... If you think this way... That is... Because... You probably don't... You probably don't... Feel good... No? Right... Right... Right... I mean... Okay... It's a tough one... No... No... No... No... It's not... Actually... It's not... Well... I can just speak for myself... What I've seen... What I see right now... On the competition field... I question at times... Because I'm like... This is not a... What do you call it? A catwalk? A fashion... A fashion show... A fashion show... It's like... And I totally understand... As a woman... Like... You wanna look nice... And... Clean... And... Present yourself... And we want you to look nice... Right... But for me... There are... There are limits... Hmm... There are limits... I don't need to show my body... I don't need to... Be... Half naked... To show... And it's actually... For me... It's like... I don't want you to... I don't want you to... Be focused on this... Right... I want you to be focused on my performance... Good... Good one... And I want it to look... Very clean... Very presentable... But... The more you show your body... It takes away... From... The actual performance... But maybe for some... Some women doesn't... Because... It... It is... Such an important factor... To mentally feel comfortable... You know... It's kind of like... I... I... Need to have the makeup... I need to have... I... I have to... Feel... Good about... How I look... To everybody... And then I can... Really perform... Sometimes that... That is a thing... No? Then... I mean... That's my guess... I'm not a girl... Of course... Then... Maybe there is a different... Underlying problem... Mm... You know... I... I... You know... It's just like... I'm saying like... You know... You look... Yeah... You can put makeup... You can put makeup... You can... Be dressed... And you can be dressed... You know... It's just... Again... I do not wanna draw... Any attention... To my appearance... And I still... Can feel good... About myself... To... To emphasize... The things that I wanna emphasize... But again... Like for me... It's... It's still like... It's the natural beauty... And... And... Yeah... I wanna look in the mirror... And I'm like... Okay... This is... This feels good... This is me... You know... Yeah... And when I feel that way... Then I can show my dog... It's like... Okay... Like... I'm... I'm in my own skin... I feel good... Now I can show... You know... I don't need to... Think about my appearance... You know... Right... Like... That's just... Too much focus... On something... That... There's too much focus on this... That it's like... We're confusing the... The... But again... You would do it... If that was... If you... Recognize that...

That would affect your performance... You would make sure... That you will eliminate... No... I would not... No... That's not my problem... Okay... That's really not my problem... And... And I wish that it's not happening... Because it's quite ridiculous... I can... I can recognize it... Immediately on the field... Yeah... I know... But I really wish... It's not happening... I really wish... It's not happening... ... than how... You know... Guys would look at the women... I really wish... I really wish... Let me ask you a different thing... With... And... And that's another... Kind of difference... Between how we... Like... If you ask me... How many times... I've done... World Championships... Or... Or whatever... Those kind of statistics... Are very vague... In my head... To where... If I ask you... And know that you will tell me exactly... But the question that I have... Is a little bit different... And this is... If... What did change... If anything... About how you look... Let's say... Your first... And second... Time... You went to a World Championship... To... 2025... Doing a World Championship... As the handler... Yeah... And the stress... And the demand... And the... What you wanted to show... And how did you... Yeah... I mean... For me... It was very... It happened very quick... Maybe too quick... That I... Been to my first World Championships... Yeah... I don't... I don't know... It was... You know... My first national... Ever... With my dog... And here we are... We're going to World Championships... And... And... It was just... You know... I mean... I just started... Like... It was literally... I just started... My dog was... Two and a half years old... And... I was... Two and a half years old... My... My first... IGP... My first national... And we're going to World Championships... I was just excited... Like... The dream was just... Yeah... It was just too fast... It was just like... Oh my gosh... Like... It's just like... This is crazy... Like... I'm like... Man... It was good... Okay... It was good and bad... Because it humbled me a lot... You know... I came like... With this like... Oh my gosh... I ruled the world... Like... Look at me... You know... Like... Two years into IGP... I'm... Doing it... You know... It was like... Boom... But I just didn't know... Also... Like... I had no... Like... Okay... I mean... I had a good training... But... Training... And... Good trainers... And training... But... Just going... To the competition... All this... Like... There's no way... You... You... You... Just gonna experience this... As you go... Um... And... And... How... 2025... How is it different? Ah... Because I remember... Before... Like... I don't know... If it was a week... Or two weeks... Before...

You already... Had... The... Butterflies... Yeah... You already... It was like... There was... Yeah... A different level of pressure... That you put on yourself... Yeah... Was because of the realization... What the experience... Or the experience... Or how did that build up... To becoming... Something else... Yeah... Because... I actually realized... That I'm... I'm capable... Like... I'm really capable to... To... To do really good... And... That's good and bad... Yes... Yes... Yes... Um... But it was very... Um... I mean... I was excited... Of course... I'm... Every time I'm excited... But I'm excited to show... Like... I know there's a... Good training behind... And I'm a different person... Um... Um... I get excited... But... I know... That... I don't let this excitement... To... Just... Throw me off... And maybe... It's just... It's more... More of a like... You're excited... But you have to put this energy... Like... You still have to show... Right... So don't get distracted... And... The realization... That it's not so easy... Maybe... Yeah... I mean... It's... No... It does not get easier... For sure... It's crazy... Like... I thought... The more you compete... It gets easier... It does not... It actually gets harder... When you realize... That you have something to show... Something different... And... You do have a big chance... And... It's on a different level... It's... So you would... Would you say that you... You... You kinda... Where you are right now... You have to... You have one extra component... How to navigate... And... Overcome... And that's the... The pure pressure... Of... Of... The realization... Of what it takes... Yeah... That was the first competition... This one... Yeah... When I realized... I'm like... Ooh... I will tell you... I have to prove something... I have to show something... Like... It's just this expectation... And it's not... It's... It's... It's the expectation that... Yeah... I mean... I put on myself... And... Knowing what I'm capable to do... And... And I just like... Pray that... It all comes together... You know... Like... Yeah... There is something interesting... I'm gonna say here... And as I'm talking... You will know already... That's already my question... So when I... When I first started... Competing in a... World level... People didn't expect anything... People didn't know... Who Ivan Balabanov is... I... It would be my time to go and show... And that would be the time... When everybody's gonna go to the... Yeah... Boots... And go shopping... Or get beers... And what not... And... That... That was very good for me... Eventually... I mean... I... I don't know... Was it 2000... 2001... With Django... I... I... Get... To be vice world champion... At FMBB...

By one point... Me and Kunut Fuchs... Had this run to the end... And... Regardless of how that went... But... But... That's when things change... And... And they change very... Drastically... Like... Just like this... Like... Boom... The next time... I was at the world championship... And I'm just getting goosebumps... Talking about it... Because you... You know where I'm going with this... It's like... Ivan Balabanov is coming on the field... Let's go watch him... And now... Nobody's at the food stands... And things change... And there is that pressure... That I had to learn how to deal with... Now... For you... You kind of carry that pressure... Simply because... You have... The same last name... Yes... And you're my wife... Yes... So tell me about this... Yeah... It's not easy... It's definitely not easy... It just comes with the last name... And... Like on your... Like on your side of things... Yeah... People look at me through you... Do you... Yourself... Feel like you have this... Pressure that you put on yourself... Because of... You and me being... Who we are... Is it more because of what... Everybody else's expectation is... Is it... So I... I... Personally... I don't... I mean... It's just... It just comes with my last name... But I've never... And again... It's... It's almost like... Like... From the beginning... Like... I... Never... Okay... I never had easy... You know... When you wanna accomplish something... And you wanna have a clear goal... And you're just going for it... Like... You're gonna hear... You're gonna hear... Behind your back... Things that... Woo... A lot... And it was not... You know... An easy journey... But I... As I said... If I have something in my mind... I'm just going for it... But you never had that opportunity... To just go on the field... And show... The way I was telling you... You go and you show... And nobody really... Never... You just kinda sneak in... Yeah... You never had that... I never had that... First... World competition... You had that... But it never... It never... It never bugged me... Because... I'm used to... I'm used to... Just people talking... Not necessarily good things... Some... Just a part of my life... So... It's just... Became a long time ago... And noise... For me... And it just never... Affected my showing... And... Plus... I... Do things for myself... Like... I'm my own critic... I'm my own... Worst and best friend... I don't need anybody... To tell me... Things... Or... Even with the judges... You know... I've heard so many... Critiques... And it's like... And I can hear... And I can... But I already know... What they're gonna say... Like... I am... I am so aware... Of my performance... That... If there is something...

That they're gonna say... It's gonna... Make my face like... Okay... I will go back... You know me... I will go back... And watch Islam... Like... What are you talking about? You know... And then I'm like... Okay... I have no clue... But I'm not changing anything... Because... This just... Not exists... So... It's just never been a problem to me... You know... The only thing that... Unfortunately... I... Experience... Because of my last name... It's actually the opposite... I feel like I've never got a break... I was always... Actually... I probably agree with this too... Always just... Let's... Just because... It's assumed that... You should... The expectations are different... And it sucks... I know... Oh this... Or you know... Sometimes I think... You know... I mean... You've been this for a long time... You've had your friends and enemies... And whatever... Very true... Yeah... Pay price for it... You know... Very true... It's okay... It's okay... I'm just gonna do my job... And I'm just gonna... I always think I'm like... I'm not going to... Have that affect me... I'm just gonna do my job... I'm just gonna get better... And leave that noise behind me... And... Get better... If somebody can see... That's great... If not... Too bad... You know... Like... And like... I don't need... Like... To tell me... Whatever... It is a... Unique position that you're in... For sure... Yeah... For sure... And that's... Something else that I think... It will be interesting for everybody... Um... How do you think... How... Do you think we are... Different in our approach to the training? Like... How do we plan? And how do we go about it? And how do we... Like... What do you think? Hmm... Hmm... That's an easy one... Because sometimes you... You... You know... You're like... Why... Why don't you do this? Or you're doing too much? Or whatever... Like you... I mean... You're a good... You kind of... Make good checkpoints for me... Which I think I do for you too... But... Where are we different? And how do we complement? And where do we clash? In... In our... I think... I think I... One thing definitely you help me with... It's to... I would get so hard on myself... Like I would just... Oh... If something goes wrong... It's stuck... It's just stuck in my head for... For... Ever... And you... Are able to bring me back... And it's just... Let's just... Do it... Or... It's not the end of the world... It's not the end of the world... It's not the end of the world... And for me... It would be the end of the world... You know... Certain sessions... You know... In my head... It's just like... I can make a subic in my head... That... It can hunt me for... Just like the training... The tracking session... I called you about...

From Poland... Yeah... You should tell the story... It's a good one... Oh yeah... So she goes... Back home... To Poland... Which is... Kind of home... But not quite anymore... But anyway... She goes back to Poland... With the idea... Because in Florida... We don't have good... Good tracking... So... Kind of make a combo... See the family... But also do tracking... So she goes tracking... And... What happens? And... What happens? And right after tracking... I... Go even... And... Just telling him... How bad was my track... Like how... I mean... It was... It was the end of the world... This was the end of the world... The worst disaster... I just get emotional... This was the end of the world... Like... I just get emotional... That times... Like I just... That's... That's the good thing... Like I just get emotional... And like... You bring me back to reality... You know... It's just that balance... That... It's like... Hey... Just see things... You know... I told you what happened... You've made a plan... To do another track tomorrow... Of course... The next track was amazing... But then... Then... Like... This is in my head... You know... Okay... My track looks... Like for me... Really... Terrible... Like I have to... It was this year... And I have to help her... On the whole track... But I forgot... I mean... Not the whole track... But I mean... Like a lot of this... It's just like... I had to help... But I forgot to mention... That... And then... And then after the fact... When I come down... When I talk to you... And I'm like... Realizing... Oh well... She hasn't tracked on this... Since last year... And also... I laid the track... And there was a storm... Like... Like... Big storm... Going through... That... While I was... Going... Less leg on my track... I barely could walk... Because the wind... And the rain... It's like... Like... Almost... Not making me move... I forgot about all that... And then it rained on my track... Then the wind was there... And... Yeah... I forgot... That maybe I shouldn't be tracking... Maybe I should just leave it alone... Yes... So what about... When you... When you watch me train... But at the time I just didn't see it... And then... You know... You just kind of like... Hold on... How about... You really made it... Impossible... So... She still made it... When you watch me train... How is it... When you... Are actually... And you are... At times... A very important part... Because... I do have my opinion... And sometimes you have to fight with me... Because... I am wrong... And you know that I'm wrong... And... Tell me a little bit about this... That would be interesting... Well... I mean... If I see something... That is happening... I will tell you... About it... And...

You... Gonna either take it... Or leave it... And most of the times... Fight about it... Or... No... No... No... I think you learn also... Yes... You learn also to listen... Yeah... You learn to listen... So it's not always that... That... You're just gonna... Stuck with your... No... That's how... But there are times... It's gonna... Where you're like... You... You do also... Do what I... Do to you... Which is cool... And this is like... Okay... Time out... Like... Like you're going too far... You're demanding too much... Or you're... Yeah... You forget that... Yeah... He needs... Yeah... He's asking for... Something from you... Yeah... It's important... These are times... Can miss... And you bring me back... Yeah... I'm trying to... For you not to be in your head... But... But... Watching the dog in front of you... And... And... Just like... Hey... That's what he needs right now... Or she needs... Or... Yeah... Because I think it's a... It's a... Um... At times... As I said... You're in your head... You're just like... Going to do this... Like a guy... Like... Okay... I'm just going to do that... But it just doesn't go like this... Like... You go and do this... But you also... Have to... Along the way... Like... You have to... Think... Who is next to you... And you have to make sure that... That dog... Does the right thing... But also... Makes... Makes it... The way... To feel good... You know... It's not just go like a... Train... You know... A machine... A machine... A robot... Yes... A robot... Yeah... It's like... Which is cool... I appreciate it... For sure... Well now I can... I... Now... Again... It took me... It's... It's... Took me a while... To... Become who I am... And... I mean... Of course... And... And... And now I have all confidence to... To say it... And... And again... At the end... You're just gonna... Bottom line... You're just gonna... Take it or leave it... You know... But I said that... So... That's... That's important... Yes... Which is... Genuinely... I'm interested... Because it is... A good question... Um... So we know... Over the years... Of course... I... I'm influencing you... And I'm teaching you... And all that... However... I am... Also always... Open... To... Something... Being injected... Into me... To change... To change... What... Do you think... Like... Where are the places... That you kind of... Really have a good... Influence on me... And... And to... To kind of... Really... Move me... From a certain place... To a different place... When we train... When I work with my dogs... Where are the times... That you... Really help me with... The things that I would... Think of... The moments... It's... Um... For me... It's always... Analyzing... If... If... If what you're trying to... Do with the dog...

If the dog... Has enough... Of the previous knowledge... To move on... To this... But I also... You know... It's like a struggle... In between... You know... To just go... Step... One... To like... Just go so fast... And you make it happen... But sometimes... Like... I can track back... For me... Where was the broken link... And I haven't given enough... And you haven't given enough... Of time to... For this... To like... Be done... And now you can move on... I think that... That's really the only thing... I... I can think of... Because... That's how I do... Analyze my... My training... With any of my dogs... It's... It's again like... It's the performance itself... What I'm doing... And... Is this fair enough... You know... Is the dog has enough knowledge for... What I'm asking next... Right... And I... You know... For... Like on my end... Probably the... The most important times... Is the... The challenge between... Going through the motions... And routine... And behaviors... And maintaining the connection... And... Every time you have said... In whichever way you would say it... But it basically... Really... Point... That I'm... Missing... The connection... With my dog... And that he's still a dog... And so on... And it's something really... And I... The moment... Every time you've said it... I'm like... Fuck... And... And typically... I would say... For the most part... I immediately recognize that... Maybe... But it works the opposite way for me... Because... To wear like a... Like a... If I train with... I don't know... I don't know... Yanni... Or... Or... Or... Mark Socochi... Or whatever... Like guys training... That the... The emotional connection... Can... Like... We think about it... Yeah, no, no, I understand that... But it can stay away to where you... You're like... I understand that... You're losing him... And he needs you, you know? Right... No, no, no... I... I totally get the... But yeah... I mean... You're guys... So that's a little bit different... So it's good... To have that... Women touch... To like... Yeah... But... With you... Let me just... With you... It's the same... I would go to the extreme... The other way... And you would bring me back... To like... Hey... Now... You need to get things done... You know what I'm saying? Like... It's that balance in between... You know... Feminine and masculine... And it just has to... Constantly... Work together... So... As you say... There is too much... Guiding... And for me... There's too much... You know... I wanna be... Yeah... And then you bring me like... Hey... Wake up... Yes... It's a good conversation... We're having... I mean... It's good for me... I don't know... I love it... I love it... Actually... I mean... We talk a lot...

But I think... Yes... That's a lot of different... Um... I wanna jump into something... That it's always... It's kind of mind-blowing... About your dogs... And I'm talking all of your dogs... I'm talking from... Any dog that I can think of... You would go outside... And your dogs... Including little Rocky... They will all be... Like... Little... Statues... Like sphinxes... You know... Waiting... At the door... Or they... End up on the... Top of the... Couch... And anywhere... Where they can... Kind of look... And they wait for you... And they wait for you... Like... I can go and poke them... And they're like... Waiting here... Um... And... I mean... We live together... I know what you do... I don't see anything... Drastically different... Than what I do with my dogs... But they... None of them really... At least I don't think they do that... And... That... Kind of... Leads me to... The actual questions... What do you think... Makes a dog truly... Love... The work... The training... Besides the... Reinforcements... Besides food... Or toys... Or whatever that is... But also in the grand... Scheme of things... What is the secret... How... Are they like this... What happens... Do you even know... What you're doing... Well I don't do it... On purpose... It just happens... That's the thing... And what happens though... I just truly enjoy... Their company... I just truly... Um... Enjoy the interaction... I give back... I'm very genuine... With them... I give back... What they give me... Um... And it's on a... On a much... Deeper level... I truly... I truly... Treat them... My companions... Um... Someone... That... I live with... I'm responsible for... Um... Give them respect... Um... I protect them... They're just part of my life... You know... And... I mean... They know it... And you know how... Sometimes people will think... Well... Dogs do things... Only... To benefit... Themselves... And... You know... Well I had that... That's the thing... I had that before... Even getting into training... Maybe that... That's why training came... Like... Like... The training itself... Like... All... All the things... Like the technical part... Or learning theories... All this... Technical side of the... Training... It's just... Of course you need to know it... To do certain things... But... Just that... Like... You have to... Satisfy... And understand this animal... In front of you... As a... Living creatures... That have needs... That needs to be met...

And it's not necessary... You know... The training side of it... Training actually for me... It's like... I do it... I mean... I love competing... I've been competing... Since I was like... Years old... It's... It's... It's satisfying... Like... What I like to do... Like... And doing it with a dog... And... And... And showing their potential... Not just from that... Training side of... But actually like... Showing who they can be... Who they are... It's... The most satisfying part... To me... Like... That's what I'm starving... Like... If I don't have that... Which just didn't happen... But how do you think you get this? Because I know... I know that you can take... Any of my dogs... Right now... And... I don't know how long... But I would speculate... That maybe within two weeks... They will turn into... The same... Like... Where is Natalia? We... We want... And it's not... What is really... Kind of... Interesting from... Even from just... Dog behavior... Point of view... They... None of our dogs are... You know... Nerve wrecks... Or... Or... Have separation anxiety... They don't destroy things... In the house... Just because we live... Or whatever... They're just very patiently... Waiting... With intensity... To where my dogs are either... Sleeping or chewing on a ball... Or whatever they're doing... They just... You know... And it's very different... It is radically different... And... I think they know that I don't... Treat them as a training machines... It's really a... It's such a... Like the training and competing... This is such a like a... On a side thing... Like everything else... What I'm doing with the dogs... On a daily basis... Matters to me more than... Than going and train... Yes... For 15-20 minutes... Like it's... It pays off... In a very cool way... Right... Because... When you put Glinda... Or Icon... Down... On the long down... They're just waiting there... And they... They're like this... There is nothing else... That matters... Or when you do a recall... If it's 90 degrees... As it was... And you say come... And... She... Literally cannot come... Any faster... Than what she does... And she... And you know... That she doesn't do it... Because she's gonna get paid... With a ball... Right... It's the... You and me... Right... Right... I think I'm very... Honest... And genuine... Is there something to do with the... I mean you... Like you... Take care... In a... Really interesting ways... When we eat... At home... Your dogs are... Waiting... Even if they get or not... But they're like... There... My dogs... Just... Whatever... Then... The morning comes... And you're like... I'm going hiking... With my dogs... And there's nothing to change your mind... And I don't know... How much...

It is for your own... Mental... Health... I'm sure... That has a big part... But do you think... All this kind of... Outside... Actual training... Things that you do... Which I... Want to think... You know... That there is something to that... I mean... I think it's all that... Yeah... I think it's all that... And it's just... Then... It's the training part... Because... Where we already have... Common language... Like... That's... An understanding... Normally... Trainers will think of... I'm going to create a fast recall... Because I'm going to pay very much... There's going to be some jackpot... There's going to be whatever... Or I'm going to have this... I'm going to create this... But I'm going to create it... During the training session... Yeah... I never had to be worried about it... Never even... Crossed my mind... Correct... Yeah... I never worried about speed... But it's because... What you do... In... The... Every day... With your dogs... Like... When you go... Like... You know... It's... I'm going on a hike... And then... She's gone... She's gone like... For three... Sometimes four hours... What... What are the hikes look like? I mean... Is that... I mean... There are things that they... Like you're getting under the skin... And I'm not saying it in a bad way... But somewhere... They really... Start to... Get so... In tune... And attached... And... And the motivation level... That they have... All of your dogs... Like... And we will talk about... Everyone separately... Even... But all of them... When you tell them to come... It's... Insane... And it doesn't come... Because of a... What they're gonna get paid with... Yeah... Right? Yeah... Share some secrets here... There's... I don't... Yeah... I truly don't know... Like... I don't have a recipe... How I make it... But... When you're my dog... You're my dog... You're my dog... And we are in this together... So... Like... I feel like... Like... Every day... It's sharing... The ups and downs... The joy... And sadness... And everything... But we are just always together... And they know... They can trust me... And they know that... I will not leave them behind... Like... Their motivation... To do something... For you... It's just... It's really... Off the roof... And I'm speaking from... Knowing and seeing... From experience... Like... Like... Everything they're doing... Or they're not doing... It comes... Very... Like... From the inside... Like... Either... Mad at them... Or I'm... Very happy... There's this... Very... Clear... In our communication... Or not even like... Like... Disappointed... You know... It's... I... Used that word before... That I'm just disappointed... It's just... It's like... Almost like... Why would you... You know... And it...

It breaks them more than... Than anything else... Because we spend so much time together... And... Yeah... When we're going on a hike... It's... It is for me too... Because I need... At some point... I just need the solitude... I just need to... Go and... Clear my mind... Um... And then things are... There is something... You know... There is something... That I want to mention... And hopefully... That might... Kind of help you to think of... Because... A... A... A... A very big... Portion of trainers... Somehow they're convinced... And they're made believe... Because of... Just how things are done... I guess... That... If we put some social isolation... Like if we keep the dog in a crate... Or if we... Somehow restrict some food... And the dog gets food... As the dog is working... And these are... You know... Generally speaking... A ways... To create this kind of motivation... But it's a... Different level... It's a... It's frustration... And deprivation... It's what it's based on... And... You're creating... A different kind of need... And your dogs... Are not in a crate... They're fed... They're spoiled... They have all sorts of toys... All over the place... And you get... Far better results... Than I have ever seen... By just allowing them to be... Than... Deprive them... To trigger that kind of dependency... Okay... Because they're not dependent on you... Yeah... Right... No... That's... And I know all these things... You know... As I got into IGP... Especially a long time ago... It's just like... You hear all these things... You know... And you're thinking... It's the right thing to do... And... And then I'm looking at this dog... And I'm like... What are we doing here? You know... Like... What... What is this? I mean... whatever like why am i keeping you in a crate like you're my dog you should be with me all the time and you should be learning and i'll be telling you what's good what's not good and this way it's like just with little kids you know you show them the world how it's done and and how you know to be safe and and how you perceive the world and what's good for them to you know how to behave so they're good for the society and there's you know but if i just have the dog in the crate and then i take it and then i do some food whatever in a bowl it's like i'm like this just feels so awkward like even for me like it would feel like i like we're too different like okay let's go like we like we don't know each other like it's like it's it's like so how i can like if i don't know you really who you are then then how i can create a strong connection that it's beyond just feeding and

you know giving you a food and and and telling you like it's just but the interesting part is that i don't think you're doing what you normally do with this intention in mind it just comes as like some weird gift a bonus to yeah yeah that's that i i don't even um yeah yeah it it just comes it's like so um i guess um i've i've been watching um um my parents how they how they you know they raise you or um no like how they um interact with with the animals and um um yeah and there was always way beyond like they had zero training experience zero but they always have this always german shepherd exactly and they they off leash doing just yes and i watched them since a kid you know how they how they how they um interact with them you know they'll just tell them what they think and show them and if you're doing something that's like hey don't do it you know it's just so genuine everything is just comes in the right time and and right moment and if whatever you're just like oh just go do your things you know and um so sometimes training and focusing on the training and using all this kind of deprivation that we're talking about that actually seems to sidetrack and almost bite you in the ass because it's a yeah it's a defend dependence and it's fake like i need you but i need you because yeah i need to get out of the crate i need to eat i need whatever and that is a very very different uh um take on how you can create motivation and cooperation with the dog it just never spoke to me this way i tried because again like long time ago that's what you hear oh i remember the one of the first times when when you had the dog the the first dog that you got from me marrox and i don't even know where we were but you would throw some food in the crate and i'm like what are you doing you know there was this time yeah i've been just doing probably things that of course everybody does everybody does and i didn't know better and um then i'm like okay that's just not for me i even have no yeah so let's let's talk about um um glinda because um he's definitely very very very cool very special dog like everybody that we've had here not forget about competitions but everybody that actually has know her on a personal level and also you know like all the helpers you take kiani vlad uh uh enrico anybody that has done anything with her within 20 seconds it's like this is a very very cool dog and of course um you know knowing mia and she was the breeder and she she's somebody that also cares and knows what to look for

and making the combination which eventually led us to to follow that bloodline and make a bunch more of them and now i know that you you you know i mean you and me we had a a little bit bigger expectations when you this was the first world championships that you went to the fmbb and the fci this year and there were some things that went really well some things that didn't go as well however in both competition there was for for the people that understand the sport and appreciate training but also appreciate quality of dog the dog it's very easy to see without just totally leave the points alone to appreciate both the quality of the dog and the training of the dog and and you have that and you know that and i think this is why regardless of the mistakes both times you won the trophy of the best female dog in the competition which is a uh one of very special ones especially when it comes down to breeding and from looking from a breeder perspective uh a lot of times you know trainers are like no i need a male dog and she she she's one of these females that is like you don't need a male dog i can do way better than any of the top level male dogs um tell me a little bit about the the both world competitions what went right what went wrong and and what you learned from those looking for 2026. that no matter how good of a training you have and how good of a dog i think i'm starting to realize the fact of you kept saying this and i kept refusing that thought for a long time the lack of draw the luck of the draw yeah the lack of the draw um and the look of the draw basically anybody that doesn't know it's it really it can be a a critical factor and basically what that means is like when when it's draw night and you pick your number when you're gonna show obedience or protection and tracking and so on and if you go in the very first flight doing obedience in the world championship in the very first day the judge no matter how they much they like what you do they're gonna have a little bit sharper pencil even though it doesn't make much sense but they would stay much more critical in order so they can they're afraid to give so high points to where it's like well what if a dog does better and so on and then on the other hand by the end of the day or by the end of the competition like let's say Sunday morning the judges are already their brains are a little saturated and and their their judgment no matter what they say it gets a little off and then they get also influenced by the crowd and so on and so on so the the points can fluctuate not necessarily by the performance

by strictly by the luck of the draw and that is definitely a factor that's kind of as a side note for people that don't understand what you meant yeah I was just always refusing that fact because I'm like okay I'm either ready or not ready whatever it's gonna and and I still believe in that it's just like I have to come in ready um and like like and opposite to you like when I go to a drone I I'm like okay, that's what it is, you know, like I just gonna pick a number and that's what it's going to be and I'm gonna definitely do my best to to show whatever we have on that piece of paper but um yeah however like let's take the last world championship the one you got the second best obedience which I genuinely would argue with anybody that it was the best obedience uh but and you got seventh place overall I mean very very incredible work and placement you know total respect for that however because of the luck of the draw you you what you picked as a draw you had to do the long down first and then do your performance and it was 93 degrees and full sun and then for your protection we just wanted to make sure that it's the same so it was probably just a little bit hotter and one of the biggest concern for us was not so much how to you know do the rituals and prepare the dog to enter the field but we had all sorts of cooling blankets and tricks to keep and just makes you focus on something that is important and that's the dog that was the main concern for me like I'm like I wasn't worried about that she gonna pull through gonna whatever just like am I is my dog gonna be okay that was really my biggest concern and you know that since I draw that and I check the weather I'm like okay we have to make sure that my dog is not getting overheated like that was that was my only concern the rest I'm like okay we we will do our job but this was in my head of course if you had a different draw you had the opportunity to show it even 65 degrees oh yeah that was in a cloudy nice early morning right you know with a jacket and hats on you know but but this is the game yeah this is the game right this is the game and and ultimately if you were to even handle a little better there were points that you could make and not lose or correct so tell me a little bit about this stuff you can go fmbb or you can do stay with the fci in spain um um like in in the obedience at fci where you lost the points in in the overall really fluid beautiful performance but there were few things especially like the basic position and she kind of consistently ended up coming how what was going on in your head and um um

did you think that you can even within the routine still make the changes yeah yeah i thought but i i caught myself a little bit too late um um i thought my i caught myself on a because one of the things is that you and and that's just again i i would put myself in the same basket here we we don't help we go and we show and there are few people that do that and every time when that happens you get the appreciation of the dog training world because you're not saying down you're not saying heel you're you're very clean when you show and that's that's but then there is the difference where you can actually within the routine say hey next time you have to do this better right yeah and it was just um you've been telling me all these little things how you would handle this and what i should do um i thought i could do something else but i caught myself too late one thing that i learned for sure um and it happened this year really it happened this year to stay in a moment which is of course very hard when you're you know like under so much pressure and and in front of that crowd and all this and and to still stay in a moment and judge every single step of your performance and adjust as you go what do you need to do and to do that you need to know your training very well and you need to know yourself very well and that i learned um i literally learned that this year right that's not something you can learn out in our training field no no i mean you you you almost like not almost it's just like i walk out and i know it's not to just go through motions and show my dog like i'm just walking i'm here the most important person my dog would just walk next to me without any purpose there is just stay with every single step of that performance stay and analyze literally every single step what we're doing and because ultimately you are the driver yes yes and what you do really really matters right and i caught myself a bit too late i think i'm doing the right thing but then i'm not going to do it but i clearly don't because she has those little crooked finishes couple of them um but was it because you wanted to show as clean as possible without helping and not knowing where you actually could have influenced her between exercises or how what what was going on or was it even something that you were acknowledging of besides okay that didn't go as perfect as it can well it was um my voice um it was the way i would say the command my voice and um and well now i know after the fact that i have to train for all the voices that i can show

at the championships and and i need to even from the biggest excitement um she needs to come in the right position i know it's like for some people probably gonna that sound silly but that's how deep and detailed and my brain can get and and always trying to find like what did i do wrong that my dog did not perform and that's the insanity of of of the evolution of igp the level of of competence in the training and and competence in judging and the demand of what is actually what really means 100 points even is this even possible today because back even five ten years ago you know 100 points was not uh i mean it wasn't easy to get but there were times that they were given and and there is a very different understanding and also pressure of what it means to to the point that it's almost impossible to which for me like just tell you like for me it's um um i know it's a performance so of course you have a certain um like when you're performing that's not how you are in a normal life you know like walking and doing things it's a performance so you have to create that that persona that's gonna perform for that specific situation and but still and how i think about it it cannot be so like deviating from like you know i i see like all this robotic moves and all this weird you know things and i'm like yeah that's that's not that's not my picture of a handler it's like i sure i don't walk like this in the normal life but that's how i walk with my dog and that's feels natural to me and we both feel good about it me and my dog it's not like my dog is chasing me trying to guess what i'm doing or it's like no no no we're we're in this together and we're moving together and every step is it's an art and i want to show that that's like i don't understand handler help i i doesn't cross my mind like it's it's just something that that if you need to do that that means that your dog doesn't understand what you want and i can pick on subtle handler help and for me it's like if you need to do that well then maybe you just should go a lower in your category because clearly if you maybe if you wouldn't do it then your dog wouldn't perform the command right you know like the handler have never existed to me like i just it's like no no no this is like like no it's not in my repertoire for sure what is the did did your appreciation for somebody winning a world championship changed after this year of you doing the two world championships because you've done before a bunch of world championships but i i really feel that this year was a a very different as far as your evolution your growth as a trainer and

the appreciation and like like susan miller winning the the world championship the fmbb i mean the the fci the swedish what was the natalie winning the wsv yesterday i mean we know actually both of them and and even if we didn't know but when you see them and they're pulling and fighting for every point and it's going and we're getting goosebumps and it's like always you don't know and finally yes you are yes you are the world champion how do you see this today done done before the time i can be truly happy for these people you know because i know whoo what it takes what it takes i mean also saying there is some luck factor and there is yeah there's just like yeah there is and and but still you know it's a hey we're going into this all together and let's see who's the best you know and and yeah it's just insane because i i personally believe that you have to get to a certain level and that certain level has to be the level that you not fooling yourself you're not blowing smoke up your ass but you really know that if the ifs are very few you can be a world championship but you weren't and somebody did it and there is a a different level of appreciation and and almost you know you you just feel like wow like amazing accomplishment to where people or trainers that are on their way there but they they don't even if they believe it they don't understand how much it takes there is a different level of appreciation that comes when somebody wins coming from people that are so close and they can do it but they were not able for whatever reason versus anybody else right yeah yeah for sure for sure that's a that's a different um because sometimes it happens it's kind of like the in in the music industry though the one hit and you never hear from that singer or a band anymore and it's a great song sometimes you can win a world championship but man that that is really like all the stars and everything has to line up and and and with the people that are winning lately you know that there that's not uh one thing blow the dice that just happens you had luck work and training and understanding and there was nobody else to really like threaten you you know it just happens okay you know like i look back and at some world championships and that's what i see um you know where it's just like yeah i mean you win this but but there are a lot of buts to me you know and and there are world championships where you're just like man whoever's gonna be like this is really a race you know like it's really and everybody could do it you know and it's just a different

different and then you know like these people will do it great again and again and again you know they will be always like touching the you know it's a it's a different there are levels in in being at the world championships even if you're already world champion but then you just we never hear about you again you know that's okay that's we are you know that's what what you just said you know it's it's um um it was just like it was just whatever you know and and but there are people that yeah they've been always there you know it's just there are levels there are just levels good dog good training is always beats anything so let me take your mind a little okay away from igp okay okay now the other which is your yes young dog also in some ways related to glinda because of her we are doing mondioring with the dog and the dog and i mean i mean throughout all the years that you've been with me you know about my passion of ring sports and so on but you didn't have like igp was a the only thing for you and i tried sometimes to you know but it wasn't happening what happened like how did we decide what what made you be like you know i'm gonna do mondioring because right now when i see you training you are very into it um how just wanted to try something else um you know just wanted to go well so going back to um yeah when i start you know when i hear sometimes people have the same stories you know like i would go and watch igp and this but i would walk around and i would see different sports you know and and and i would get stuck with mondio at fmbb you know because it's cool you know it's just cool to watch and it was different it was like oh from this precision freak performance to like this just circles that has to like it's just so different worlds you know i would feel and watch and get stuck and it's just like you know and feel bad that for the dog that gets confused yeah but i had no clue back then it's like what am i even watching you know but it was cool it was cool then i mean remember with one of the um female i mean ava um did french ring um i mean she had already some training and i just took over and and prepare her for the trial we did the the the one and i truly enjoy it but it was french ring like that's why i forgot about yes yeah yeah yeah so you know i mean i with the title and i mean i learned we had you know you know it was like oh my gosh i'm learning from the best decoy in the world the french ring you know it just was just like uh you know i love that i really love that like i really enjoyed this um

didn't think about mondia because i like the just the french like the style of like okay this is like a real war the war between the dog yes there was something i'm like okay let's just do it you know mondia at the time was just like okay this is just too much of this things coming and and you know i call it as a circus you know just like literally like we're in a circus right now but now i have appreciation um you know i've watched you with kimba for a couple years before i get the dog i watched you know and i handle her and and i realized i'm like hmm this is not that easy this is just a lot of like to prepare a dog for the the highest level of ring sports and man this is takes a a special dog and training and and i'm like i just want to challenge myself as a trainer like oh you know like i'm just need something else to do to you know to to to not to get stagnant not to you know just igp igp igp i'm like i need to try something else and just and also something that i would never think i'm gonna go into this i'm like okay i'm just gonna do it and i'm literally learning with him you know it challenges you as a trainer because the it it really needs a some different skill set and understanding of what what's important in the different program yeah yeah yeah yeah and i i don't know i don't know like i really don't know this is so new to me and and um and i'm just in this together with him what are the parts that you like in like you really like in igp and then what are the parts that you really like in mondial you mean like parts as a discipline or yeah or yeah well i love all the disciplines there's no like there is no so like if you have to say i like obedience better than protection or tracking or i like like in igp which is your do you have a a favorite part i at this point i do not have and i really never had because every part every discipline like talking about tracking obedience or protection requires different skill set and different approach so it was very uh like i was very drawn to it because i had to work in between so many different like emotions and like i mean not just the dog but me as well you know it was just that that roller coaster of like yeah i don't go in obedience with that attitude you know it's just like no i have to soften up and now we're like let's go then i have tracking i just have to be totally like okay you know it's just fun to like play with all this the emotions that that the certain discipline requires and and you know and so how do you see the mondial ring like like with the limited experience that you have in it and but

you're still we're still training very seriously we have very uh high hopes and plans um what are the areas that you really really enjoy and what are the areas that you're like man this is the one that i don't feel comfortable with is that but it's because of my my um physical um restrictions it's the wall because i don't see myself or jumping making the dog jump to help the dog 90 pound what if he's not making the jump oh my gosh yeah this is just no no for me so like i just i that freaks me out um then um as you know i'm very lost at the the i mean i'm i i'm better right now when you know we train more than the defense of handler it's just there is actually so much going on that my brain is just like whoa you know from this like a very structured igp you know there's just certain things you need to do to this complete mess right and you have to find yourself it's like the sushi versus the hot pot i'm like whoa this is this is a big yeah this is a big um but it's good it's good it's really challenged me how do you think the one program helps you for the other program back and forth do you think you take some notes and and something that benefits you that you can be like oh i can i or i can or do you look at them as very different ones um because like me as a helper as a decoy i constantly like i i i i would say that i benefit so much of understanding both and and how i can inject some elements of either one to the other that really can right the training bring quality yes yes that's the training aspect yeah because i mean if you think about the exercises and there is a lot of you can definitely what i learned in igp i mean it's it's just there's no that precision side but i mean it's dog training so unless i don't understand the idea of the exercise um you know then i have to understand what is the the the the final you know like i mean the big thing for me was that the basket right uh i mean this exercise was just like the god of object yeah god of object it's like the biggest puzzle the biggest puzzle i mean it's not right now but it's just like okay it's like what am i doing here you know but i just just just had no clue like there's zero knowledge about this so and there's still like i'm just still learning so much like i i and and and that's one good thing that that man so many years into doing dog sports and training dogs what 15 years ago i thought i know it all and now the more i go i mean you hear me saying i'm like i don't know nothing i don't know nothing

i can't i can't believe listening to social media and people it's like everybody is talking like an expert i'm like oh my gosh but when you don't know what you don't know i don't know it's just like man i can't believe i just can't believe like i still feel like i i'm i have little knowledge like there's still so much i can learn when you get that's my my approach that's how humble i got and and open and with that attitude that's why almost might be a part of like i just want to try different things you know just because i have no clue and i just want to learn i just want to know because this ultimately will help me yeah maybe in some igp or whatever you know this is just dog training you know and just to realize like how much you still don't know we're in a in a very fortunate position that um we can afford to find the time to train for completely different sports to the having the highest level of goals which is extremely time consuming this is not something that um you know no matter how much you want to sacrifice it's it's very very very tasking and demanding and i don't think too many people can even afford to do that um but i think we're also training smart it's not that we're throwing ourselves in the same situation over and over again we're always starving to like find the next training session is going to be something that we're going to accomplish and it's going to go towards our goal like we're not wasting a training session just to go and do things right that's that just never happens never happens we don't just come out and do things yeah if we do that we would rather just go and throw the ball exactly that's why that's why it's so interesting because like every training session it's like uh just don't know what's gonna happen but you know it's just like okay let's so when you think of mondioring and and you have your dog and your training what are the what are the exercises or the training of certain exercises that you really like and excite you even if they're not coming easy to you but what are the the favorite pieces of it i mean i like them really all yeah you know there is no like uh i mean they retrieve a school how you know how they need to yeah i mean how they need to just retrieve different just understand that as a concept yes yes and that's actually not i mean for me again it's like a learning process so of course but when you when you let's say let's say tonight we will train we're not but let's say we would have what would be like oh i'm looking forward to train this one because i kind of enjoy it versus man that's

a struggle um no no where you are right now where there is a struggle that's that's the thing that i want to go through the struggle i don't put the struggles away like if that's that's if i have a struggle i i need to resolve that struggle within myself and the training because that would just bug me too much and so let's say yeah that's the the now the big thing big question mark in my head is the the the sand sand work the yeah yeah wooden objects which is like yeah that's the cool thing about monitoring because you have these puzzles and you can either go with what everybody is doing or you can be like well can i do it in some different approach different approach and also like i i for me it's it's not just do it i've never been just do it in any of the the discipline or or sports i need to understand why the dog is doing this what is going through the dog's mind you know that's that's more that's more interesting to me to understand why is the dog doing certain things versus to just like have the dog do it that's why that's why i never been satisfied with certain uh style of training because i'm like i'm not i'm i don't want you to foul blindly something that you know like a bowl or something it just doesn't make sense to me i want you to work for me i want you to to enjoy it i want you know like and i want to know that you enjoy it and um yeah that's um um so let's say like you know like we had the conversation with the woods right i mean you're asking me always the question i'm like man like damn it it's just like like and the question by the way was always like okay well we are at that stage of the training what is your next stage yeah and here i am which is always the interesting that's super interesting and it's just my brain is just like whoa oh it triggers some thinking oh yeah yeah it triggers a lot of thinking you know um i know there will be some women and some young girls that listen that look up and dream to get there what kind of advices you will give them you're gonna ask me that question of course it is a but it is an important question because oh yeah you know people you know when you don't know you don't know and then you can get stuck somewhere or you can start to change too much i mean there are so many ways to screw things up or get disappointed it's just not an easy route like if you are to motivate and excite people that want to really excel what would be some advice that you would give like you can think even trainers that would come and look for help with certain things or whatever it

helps you think of but but put yourself being yeah being you yeah way back yeah and you had that figure that actually could say hey natalia listen to me like if you have this opportunity to to somebody that is just kind of have the potential and but there is so much out there i mean think about why are you doing this are you doing it for the trophies and to show off yourself or are you doing it for the dog can it be both without sacrificing the other well you have to always have the dog in my and i know like i see all this crazy dog first fourth second but do you really mean it do you really would stop when you feel that training isn't going well and i want my dog well-being be first i don't care about this i'm going to move on i'm gonna whatever you know like i'm not gonna if if at any time the well-being of my dog would be in danger it's not happening i'm retreating there's no you're not gonna see me you just i will never go that far but how can somebody especially a woman woman that doesn't quite understand but have the desire and the talent have the the even the courage to to kind of say well this is not going well or can we do something else well you have to make your choices you have to make up make a choice i mean like bottom line guess what i mean you're gonna take that dog home and something's gonna be broken in your relationship in your daily living and just it's not gonna and and don't you gonna like not gonna feel like something inside that that you failed like that's what i was saying like like i am here to protect my dogs i am here to to to be there for them to speak because they cannot but i am the one that that it's their advocate so but would you say they have to like find find people that they trust a little bit that they can take them in waters that they are not familiar and that may look uncomfortable and scary but still have some trust or because this is where it gets very sketchy for people you know yes you have sometimes people are very have to trust that person that you know like things gonna be all right like for sure you cannot just go to to random person and and you know just that person is gonna do some weird things and you're just gonna be a bystander and and pretend nothing is happening it's just like it cannot like it's just you know because so you have to build some relationship um with that with that person kind of because it's an interesting one and very always very difficult one giving up on a dog too soon because you're seeing or you're not seeing the potential but you're just very prematurely making these judgments

versus getting stuck with a dog that you shouldn't have these expectations versus the person that has a nice dog and trains but always looks forward to make 100, 100, 100 points and only then they show. Like you haven't given up on a dog since I know you. Not one time. Right. And there are trainers that would give a dog let's say six months or a year and then there is the next one and the next one and there is this chase of thinking that I don't have the right dog yet. Tell me about that stuff. Yeah, it's my dog. We make an agreement from the beginning. You know, you're my dog. So there's no perfect dogs. There's no perfect dog. So what would you tell somebody that has a seven-month-old dog and they're training and they're hitting a wall here and there? Yeah, that's a normal process. I mean, you hit the wall for a reason. Like to hit the wall. Like actually, I mean, we keep saying this, but you know, like it's those dogs that when you hit the wall, when the things are not going the way you want them to go, that means that there's something you have to do to grow, to overcome it, to have better skills, to better understanding. It's just like it actually should teach you something to become a better person, to become a better trainer for that dog, to get the best out of that dog and not just wash it out because you have this crazy expectations of this and that. It doesn't exist in a normal world. Like nothing that comes easy. It's actually something you can enjoy. It's not interesting. It's not interesting no more. That's why like, you know, like I feel like that's why with Glinda, I had such a struggle with her. Like everything so far, I feel like it came too easy to me. You know, like it's just like it went too fast, too easy. And I'm like, all right, like that's just not a... And then she came and she gave me, in my world, she gave me a lot of trouble to, you know, it's just different type of dog, you know, and I had to really grow as a person and a trainer. But always I'm very thankful for these dogs because, you know, I believe that one day the stars would align and, you know, things will work out the way I want. What are the goals? What are the dreams? The goals coming up 2026 and on. For you as a trainer, as a person and your dogs. That's a deep one. yeah so that the star will align finally from all the from all the sides everything just gonna come together because we're scratching it we're scratching it and but you know that's the thing like that's we're scratching it but I know we're capable so now I just let it let it we're gonna do our thing how do you deal with the disappointments and how people should

take the the difficult times when the hopes just crumble that day yeah well just the latest competition just the latest latest world championships you know when who are doing protection and everything goes well the whole part first part it's beautiful and then we have this big big mistakes then well it's it's at times it's it's very unfortunate disappointing that it just went the way it went but then if this was before I would made it a big deal I would made I would go into my emotional you know like a lot of just things that I don't even need and then I had you to just like put it straight in front of me um like how it was and what happened from the tactical part of the the whole thing you know and I can see it right now and I'm like yeah so that's what I'm saying like I wish that next time all these things that you know I didn't know how to handle that better than from the other side of the you know uh being on the field helpers and whatever like this is gonna work out like I I believe that just everything has to align and I have this hope I still have this hope you know that uh one day everything comes together and and you know cause all the things that happened it's just it's it's not not the training mistake it's not a uh dog not capable or something it's all there for me it just has to happen that one competition like it's everything is there there is nothing for me like and I may sound like very but I I know like I would never say that this way because I'm as I said like I'm very critical about my performances and you know that how I analyze and you know how I deep I can go into things I know and um to say that for me to like I know it's there it just has to happen you know what is really interesting I just as you are talking I'm thinking about it and and um I don't even I need to actually think to articulate myself but let me just go off on it and see what happens but but there is this there is I mean it's different dynamics and it's very interesting once like where I am like I have checked the boxes I have won what I had to win you know and it's different not that I don't have the motivation and not that I don't want of course I want to win again but at the same time I've checked the boxes I've proven not to any I don't care about anybody well I do that's why but I've proven it to myself that I I can and I you know and that's it's a what I'm doing I'm looking at from a different angle that somebody like you and many like you that are right there but are not making it yet and there is a chance that you may not you may be three times vice world champion which is extremely admirable but you're not the world champion and as we were talking I was just somehow

out of nowhere thinking about Knut Fuchs he's checked all the boxes and he is you know like in in the last few years like sometimes I'm like man what are you doing kind of thinking to myself but now I'm like I think it's fun it's amazing it's like he gives everybody this very cool motivation and enjoyment about what we do and okay if you win absolutely amazing and hats off but if you don't enjoy what you do because we are in this thing you know but again I think it's different when you've already checked the boxes versus when you're chasing it and when you're chasing it it can become so disrupting and and really affect somebody's life in a very bad way actually and go like like really go bad you know I totally agree and and there is I guess some way that people like I know so many people that train extremely hard and religiously and doing and not necessarily doing the wrong things doing the right things but as we talked about the stars don't align yet and what do you do then and who you are in that position and it's a hard one very me setting for myself setting a bar so high from the beginning I wasn't like I just want to do it for fun I was just like no no no I'm gonna go world championships I'm gonna be a world this was my words because you have to in the one hand if you don't think about if you never say I'm gonna be a world championship I can put money that you're not gonna be a world champion because you just are going you're I mean there is something that you have to I don't know that's kind of too new agey kind of thing but you have to tell the universe that that's where you're going in some ways otherwise it cannot happen that's what I was going always that in my mind but at the same time where I was going with this is you can anybody can do everything right and it doesn't mean because you have done that because you've paid your dues so to speak right you are okay here you work hard it doesn't work that way that's what makes it special yeah it doesn't come that easy you know it's well then I had my checkpoints you know I had the big dreams even looking at this you know these are multiple world championships talking about Mia and me and Mario you know and then no matter what you say and it doesn't matter that we've won a bunch at times I bet you that all three of us if you ask you're still going to say the stars had to line up it had to considering all the little things I'm just starting to have this thought this year you know it's just like it really has to line up something just is beyond my I'm like and every competition and every performance it's a lesson too for me just like the last one was some I wish I knew that in the protection you've got a dream you've got a train and you've got to show up oh that's for sure and you're going to be disappointed

and you're going to get checked and you're going to get humbled and if you really want to you're going to keep going you're going to keep going and you're going to just like me like I'm like okay like there's something I'm missing like clearly I'm missing something and hearing you like it was a while ago like when you said you had the same dream you know right that's what's going to happen but then you started questioning like what if not when I heard you saying this I'm like okay you cannot question it for too long because then it takes you down I'm like okay I'm like right no no no but you know just like oh there is such a question I can ask myself speaking of you know just like I can actually like think for a second about this what if not going to happen right like I've never had this important it was like this year beginning of the end of last year just like I heard it and I'm like oh so I can actually have a thought like this even the best people in the world have this question mark in it you know it's just like you know that's kind of where I was going with how how Knut Fuchs is right now for for the whole IGP community it's like yeah go for it but you can be fifth you can be 25th or you can be a world championship enjoy the ride enjoy the ride and really like it's it matters who are you training with and who is around and like for me like there's a lot of things I've heard from you not even training but just like being that person that it's like going through this and like just that question about what if not gonna happen you know I'm like I didn't know that that question exists in my world that question did not exist which is cool because I didn't have that question and you know I tell you something like this took a lot of pressure off my back and I'm like okay now I'm like I'm just so hard on myself like I'm just like okay like I really have to like you know it should be enjoyable it should so this year like the whole competition that I've done I mean the FMBB then we have the nationals then we have another world championships all the things like I sure I mean I get butterflies I get stressed you know that's normal you know like it's it's you know it's normal competition time but my mentality and how I think about the you know I don't have that it just it took a lot of pressure unnecessary pressure off my shoulders that you know it's just let's let's let's show what you got and you got good things going on you know and I'm very confident it took a pressure bring a lot of confidence brought a lot of confidence into my showing and performances you know it was a it was a very you know those those moments where you're like a very turning point into your career when just randomly here and and I was like oh my gosh this is actually exactly thank you you know yes I think that should be a wrap I think we we went all over the place

I got some takeaways from the conversation was cool oh yeah oh yeah so thank you for that one and maybe a part two later you know at some point oh we have it it's a given yes yes all right guys hope you like this share like comment we will respond take care next Thank you.