Training Without Conflict® 팟캐스트 스페셜 에디션: 안전벨트 비유와 부적 강화

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it's it guides you it tells you what to do it suggests you what to do because probably there is consequences maybe maybe you crash maybe you hurt yourself maybe the police writes you a big ticket but it's still a suggestion a reminder a signal it's not that signal not necessarily controlling you right how we talk controlling behavior now is it annoying yeah but that that persistent sound you know it sure can be aversive for many people but i believe that most people respond to it not because of the aversiveness but the reminder of i should put my seatbelt on i don't want to get a ticket i don't want to get in a crush and not have my seatbelt up one or the two or bought in combination it's not aversive enough if any person says i don't want to do it you're not gonna do it right so think of positive reinforcement you have some labrador that's really well fed he just had a good meal and you have some kind of old dog biscuit and you're asking him to do behavior and you're going to reinforce it he says i don't like that dog biscuit i actually don't feel eating at all right now what would we do in that situation if we want that reinforcement to work right we have to escalate somehow we have to change we need to make the dog want the cookie we need to maybe not feed them for the morning feeding maybe give a more interesting treat something that actually is going to make the dog respond to right so it's very much the same with the negative reinforcement when that tone doesn't do the job if we really want to have negative reinforcement then we have to have another level of aversive intensity that's going to say well how about now would you put your seatbelt now and you're still fighting with it and i think you know now where i'm going that intensity will increase until it convinces you to put the seat belt on imagine positive reinforcement you have that cookie you have that lab and you're telling him sitting he just goes thank you very much i don't need to sit not that different than just clipping the seatbelt behind your decision to put the seatbelt on it just it it depends on the level of motivation right and that level of motivation is going to change and that's the thing with negative reinforcement that this thing with any reinforcement and any punishment nothing is constant like if you just for the sake of uh visual you know is easy to understand let's say we have from scale one to ten

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electric collar and i want you to do something or i don't want you to do something and i can top level two which is you probably need to kind of stop and concentrate to feel something but you say wow okay i'm not gonna do it or i will i will eagerly do that same behavior tomorrow or not even tomorrow maybe in an hour may require more or less level of intensity depending on what depending how you feel about it at the moment how motivated you are level of motivation dictates the level of intensity to convince you either to be able to reinforce the behavior or to stop a behavior reinforcement on punishment right but it's your motivation or the dogs or or the person that's putting the seatbelt on that's gonna dictate that and so there is your problem why is it poor analogy the seatbelt because it's a constant it does not it cannot escalate more than that little louder tone and then it ends on top of that what else can happen you can make a shortcut exactly you can get that seatbelt clip it behind you and you can neutralize the sound but actually not perform what what's required not not show the behavior that you should so that's another poor feature of you know if you if you're reinforcing you have to be able to actually reinforce the behavior as i was originally thinking about this and even now sometimes it's almost stuck with me and i play with it and when we're in the car and natalya will be like okay i know what you're doing because in the beginning she will i put your seatbelt on and i'm like just not putting it on and then i wait i wait i wait it goes a little louder or whatever then it ends up beeping and then i just put it on i mean i'm just playing games because i'm bored on the road right but it really shows you how it's not the best example so two problems actually more than two problems but two big problems one is it stays constant it doesn't reflect the motivation of the driver or the motivation of the dog we cannot play with the levels it's easier to cheat so when you want to have a good reinforcement negative reinforcement you have to be able to control the intensity of the aversive this is a must because sometimes you may need very little or nothing and respond straight to the signal and sometimes depending on your stubbornness and commitment and motivation not to it has to reach a level that's going to convince you and that level it's not punishment that's the big kind of bubble that somebody can get into again with thinking that the low levels are reinforced for reinforcement and the high levels are

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for punishment you can you can punish think of how we talk in class the you know a police pulls you over gives you a warning is it a punishment of course it is from level of intensity yeah it's pretty mild they just told you don't do that again and you said okay but if you decide to disrespect that warning you will get higher and then you will get higher and then this will keep going until eventually probably your license gets suspended and you pay very different price for your insurance right imagine if the police officer always says hey don't do that next time you're like yes officer thank you and you go and then two days later he stops he's like yeah remember don't do that and that goes on that's kind of how the negative uh how the seat belt thing works so the level of motivation again essential and it must be talked about when we talk about reinforcement if we if we want to explain reinforcement correctly that seatbelt analogy is very very poor again it doesn't imply any level being low being high being anything in between it just it has to do its purpose it has to serve its purpose and control your behavior and in that instance because it is to reinforce basically it's gonna have to convince you to do something that you know what to do it's not a guess right we talk about what negative reinforcement love one of the most important things at least in twc is what the easy way out right don't get so quiet we we don't like the dog to struggle we don't like if you go first time in the car and you have no idea how to put a seat belt and that tone is beeping and eventually a week later you figure it out it's like wow okay you want somebody to show it much easier much nicer right so that's uh that's another important thing to to know about but yeah it's uh it goes all the way back to skinner as i said like he kind of summed it up all in one thing oh it's using aversive reinforcement punishment then after some time things changed a little bit but um again even today it's very widely believed that not not just among dog trainers this is like i talked with with people that you know scientists behaviors evolutionary psychologists psychologists it is really widely misunderstood concept so since the seat belt analogy is so widely used you you might as well just do it just what i just told you and explained that that's a bad analogy now what will be a good analogy any analogy will be good if what what are the the important pieces it has to be able

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to escape and later avoid that puts it in a reinforcement category what else overcome the level of motivation right so that means to control to convince you we have to match and actually go above your level of stubbornness and say no dude you have to do that and once we convince that what happens next is very interesting too because let's say we need to go from one to ten again on scale regardless of what the aversive is but we start with three and then we go to five and then we go to seven and it's like okay i'm gonna put the seat belt on that doesn't mean that we have to stay on seven next time the warning signal comes and it's like yep i'm ready let's go that's what negative reinforcement is about you have to adjust it's not a constant so that that's really when you anytime you talk to to uh your pet client or a sport trainer your body whatever in its negative reinforcement discussion it matches the level of motivation and it makes you perform do something but it doesn't it never ever should imply a certain level like whenever i talk like on social media sometimes and we have some conversation there is always i i would mention something and for some reason everybody thinks that oh if you're not using low level that means that you're hammering dogs like no it really does not mean that i'm not the one to decide if i am if the dog doesn't want the cookie i will offer some different treat if he doesn't want that treat maybe i will offer a ball maybe he will skip a meal but i will convince him to want it and make the behavior and if we have negative reinforcement and i say hey do that and i make a little pop on the leash and he's like no this is way more important right now i know what you want but i'm not gonna then we meet him and say no you really have to and then we convince him that okay i do it and the very next time we ask him we may not even need to do anything aversive just the signal and you have the response we don't know it can this is the thing it varies it's not a constant yeah so if you think of any analogy go ahead correct correct so you can certainly do that too until you put the seat belt on the car doesn't go it's a now i cannot argue that that's a bad example of negative punishment because it totally is going to serve the purpose assuming that you want to go somewhere and you're not just playing with the seat belt right so in that instance yes that's correct anybody can think of cool example maybe we can change all together the

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the examples you know like it's it's really insane how how popular that example is and how misleading it is i mean i i again i've talked to so many different people from different uh um different different education and different you know things that they do and you would think that they would know but you go you listen to i don't know go to i mean on youtube you can find everything but even if you go to some lectures on reinforcement or operant conditioning most likely and some college teacher or professor explaining to the class what negative reinforcement is chances are 99 that you will hear the seat belt analogy or another one will be well you have a headache and you take aspirin or something of that nature or it's raining and you put an umbrella the yes they are more negative reinforcement than the seat belt but it's still like in dog training the the thing with negative reinforcement and positive reinforcement is like we we want to have a cue we want to have a signal we want the dog to respond and then we are playing with options how we can reinforce how we can convince the dog to respond in a certain way without kill yeah so you're going outside and it's raining and you have an umbrella it doesn't necessarily matches your sit or down or come do you understand how slow that seat belt thing is and it really like if you go to on youtube and go operand conditioning lectures it can be yale university can be it can be anybody really the chances are that you will hear this analogy this is how confusing it is and it's been like this for a very long time and it's very hard to argue it when you when you actually think a little bit how we can improve the seat belt as a negative reinforcer what do we need to be able to do what what needs to happen if we're going to improve the seat belt to really serve not as a warning signal and signpost and have us annoyance negative reinforcement that is very easy to override if you want to how can we make it so it actually really truly is uh negative reinforcement electrified i said sure sure that was uh um well way back in the ear in the 80s when don shoot the dog karen pryor came with a cheat she came up with a very cool analogy where you have the car parked and the meter is already expired and the cop comes and blows up the car it's it's kind of unreasonable right we don't we don't need that but we can get there it's just there's got to be levels something in between right it cannot be this and tapa so we can we can increase the sound i mean if it's gonna be a sound let's increase it let's go to almost like the soccer maniacs with the horns the beautiful like i'm sure tesla ellen can come up with some

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weird sounds that you are putting that seat belt on but there's got to be levels this is what it's important like anytime you hear this you don't need to convince the world otherwise but when you are working with a client i think it's your duty to to explain how things work and that as long as the dog understands what is asked from them it's very different if we're applying contingent and non-contingent aversive this is this almost in all the studies the the you know that end up banning electric colors and prone colors and whatever there is always this well what happens if the dog cannot make sense of it it's a bad idea which there's no need to make a study off of that it's a bad idea but there is many bad ideas in the world and we don't you know we don't forbid forks because some dumbass just spot himself and you know um [Music] so how do we make a seat belt that can escalate but before it blows up the car we have levels i've thought of it you can you can start with the sound you can start to make um like like the sound can increases you can start some low level of electric you can increase the level of electric whatever it is it has to be unpleasant enough whatever that is to the that particular subject to convince them to respond so that intensity never really reflects your mood as a trainer and your frustration that's bad training right we know that before the intensity increases we need to make sure that you understand what you need to do so as i said if you're going to sit in the car and the tone starts and then it keeps going and then it keeps doing all sorts of things but you have no idea what to do that will be wrong that will be very unfair to you right so we we have to be certain that either the subject knows what to do it's instructed and we know that it can or it's a ref uh uh uh i cannot say the word no but by reflex you know like let's say you're touching something and you feel that little electric impulse what you're gonna do you're not gonna push back harder you're gonna go back in that situation you do not necessarily need very deep instruction because by reflex you will respond in the way that you you should be responding but with the seatbelt we yeah this is what you do you put your signal on and you explain you why and and that's the pros that's the cons you decide what you do but if you want to make a reinforcement then that's how it's gonna go now as as we we said you know yes we can really really escalate but the level of aversif has to be applied it has to be a smart level what are we looking on you you mentioned that already

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the level of adversity safe state of emergency right so the i i'll read it to you the the ideal emotional state for learning is a state of safe emergency in other words there is a high level of attention without the negative impact of anxiety so we you know we're very purposefully methodically without frustration where this is this what teaching is what reinforcement can look like so the the thing i thought of is if the car had a sensor to detect whether you put in the seat belt your insurance company raises up your premium it raises the price until you start putting on your seat belt um and that would you know compel you to put on your seat belt but it's really good one that's that's just priceless yeah the technology it's like oh pop pop pop pop oh guess what you feel comfortable talking about it because they you know like your client will say hey i don't want to use this this is unethical this is you know we're gonna blow up my dog and i love my dog and you can really you know there is a very reasonable place for it sometimes to to summarize and close this one what did we learn it has to match the intensity of diversif has too much the level of motivation it cannot be constant otherwise it's very poor example of negative reinforcement and ultimately i hope you realize the the beeping tone in the seat belt serves more the purpose of a warning signal a reminder a signpost done negative reinforcement event [Music] so [Music] you

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[Music] [Music] talking about negative reinforcement talking about negative reinforcement talking about negative reinforcement and and and the the the famous seat belt analogy we we you know there is some people especially you know there is some people especially you know there is some people especially like i think some people in europe don't like i think some people in europe don't like i think some people in europe don't quite understand the analogy i've gotten quite understand the analogy i've gotten quite understand the analogy i've gotten messages and emails like what is that messages and emails like what is that messages and emails like what is that analogy analogy analogy and and and it's really it's really it's really a way to explain how negative a way to explain how negative a way to explain how negative reinforcement works reinforcement works reinforcement works in a very in a very in a very supposed to be very simple way supposed to be very simple way supposed to be very simple way that will make sense that will make sense that will make sense and also what i believe is and also what i believe is and also what i believe is present present present the negative reinforcement as something friendly friendly not so like not so like not so like the seatbelt analogy basically doesn't the seatbelt analogy basically doesn't the seatbelt analogy basically doesn't allow it to be allow it to be allow it to be too too too intense you you know what i'm saying intense you you know what i'm saying intense you you know what i'm saying now now now before we get going there before we get going there before we get going there punishment and reinforcements there for what there for what control behavior control behavior control behavior that's their sole purpose that's their sole purpose that's their sole purpose punishment and reinforcement is punishment and reinforcement is punishment and reinforcement is so we can control behavior so we can control behavior so we can control behavior reinforcement of course makes behaviors reinforcement of course makes behaviors reinforcement of course makes behaviors happen happen happen punishment makes behavior stop punishment makes behavior stop punishment makes behavior stop encouragement and suppression encouragement and suppression encouragement and suppression and and basically that's it it's really and and basically that's it it's really and and basically that's it it's really that simple but this is something that simple but this is something that simple but this is something that we need to keep in mind as we go on that we need to keep in mind as we go on

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that we need to keep in mind as we go on with that conversation right now one one of the one one of the kind of strangely i don't know why but kind of strangely i don't know why but kind of strangely i don't know why but negative reinforcement is uh um negative reinforcement is uh um negative reinforcement is uh um it's it's it's poorly understood poorly understood poorly understood and there is not as many studies on it and there is not as many studies on it and there is not as many studies on it there is not as much there is not as much there is not as much you know it's not explored as much you know it's not explored as much you know it's not explored as much if you compare it to positive if you compare it to positive if you compare it to positive reinforcement to punishments you know reinforcement to punishments you know reinforcement to punishments you know there is way more extensive literature there is way more extensive literature there is way more extensive literature now this is not to say that there is no now this is not to say that there is no now this is not to say that there is no studies in literature or negative studies in literature or negative studies in literature or negative reinforcement it's just not as reinforcement it's just not as reinforcement it's just not as extensive and when i when i say that the seat belt analogy is a poor say that the seat belt analogy is a poor say that the seat belt analogy is a poor example example example i am not i am not i am not suggesting that it's not suggesting that it's not suggesting that it's not that there is no element of negative that there is no element of negative that there is no element of negative reinforcement as you will see reinforcement as you will see reinforcement as you will see but it's just a very poor one but it's just a very poor one but it's just a very poor one and and and so to to begin with to to begin with somehow the the somehow the the somehow the the even on a subconscious level even on a subconscious level even on a subconscious level the seatbelt analogy the seatbelt analogy the seatbelt analogy implies implies implies that we're gonna use that we're gonna use that we're gonna use lower low level of aversion lower low level of aversion lower low level of aversion low level of aversive low level of aversive low level of aversive for reinforcement for reinforcement for reinforcement and higher level for punishment so that already is a problem so that already is a problem uh this is this is really not not um you uh this is this is really not not um you uh this is this is really not not um you know it's incorrect distinction between

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know it's incorrect distinction between know it's incorrect distinction between the reinforcement and punishment the reinforcement and punishment the reinforcement and punishment negative reinforcement and positive negative reinforcement and positive negative reinforcement and positive punishment yeah punishment yeah punishment yeah something something of interest here something something of interest here something something of interest here it's you know how we it's you know how we it's you know how we we always go back in this history and we we always go back in this history and we we always go back in this history and we try to see where what's coming from try to see where what's coming from try to see where what's coming from where and why where and why where and why and interestingly like uh and interestingly like uh and interestingly like uh skinner is partially to be blamed for skinner is partially to be blamed for skinner is partially to be blamed for for this kind of confusions for this kind of confusions for this kind of confusions when he first introduced it when he first introduced it when he first introduced it as negative reinforcement he pretty much as negative reinforcement he pretty much as negative reinforcement he pretty much meant meant meant punishment as well there was no a punishment as well there was no a punishment as well there was no a distinction between distinction between distinction between negative reinforcement positive negative reinforcement positive negative reinforcement positive punishment that's a punishment that's a punishment that's a important thing to to note important thing to to note important thing to to note then interestingly he then interestingly he then interestingly he later in like late 50s or so later in like late 50s or so later in like late 50s or so he changed it he redefined he made a he changed it he redefined he made a he changed it he redefined he made a different definition to where he different definition to where he different definition to where he separated it too separated it too separated it too he never really admitted he never really admitted he never really admitted anywhere that i know in his papers and anywhere that i know in his papers and anywhere that i know in his papers and and lectures that and lectures that and lectures that he originally he originally he originally put them in in one and the same put them in in one and the same put them in in one and the same so so so as with everything else that takes a as with everything else that takes a as with everything else that takes a momentum but again it's a it's really not another

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but again it's a it's really not another good idea to think that they are good idea to think that they are good idea to think that they are um um um one one and the same one one and the same one one and the same and it's definitely not a good idea to and it's definitely not a good idea to and it's definitely not a good idea to always always always think that think that think that negative reinforcement uses low level of aversive and positive uses low level of aversive and positive punishment always use high level of punishment always use high level of punishment always use high level of aversive this is this is big aversive this is this is big aversive this is this is big misconception misconception misconception as we said reinforcement punishment as we said reinforcement punishment as we said reinforcement punishment controlling behavior controlling behavior controlling behavior either i ask you to do something and i either i ask you to do something and i either i ask you to do something and i reinforce it or ask you not to do reinforce it or ask you not to do reinforce it or ask you not to do something and i stop you from it something and i stop you from it something and i stop you from it now when somebody is somebody like let's say in the somebody like let's say in the training camps that use electric collars training camps that use electric collars training camps that use electric collars a lot a lot a lot and and and you will have trainers that will say you will have trainers that will say you will have trainers that will say well i only use low level well i only use low level well i only use low level stimulation stimulation stimulation and this is misleading and it's and this is misleading and it's and this is misleading and it's incorrect this is for the same reason why the seat this is for the same reason why the seat belt analogy is incorrect belt analogy is incorrect belt analogy is incorrect can you can you can you tell me why is it tell me why is it tell me why is it incorrect i'll tell you then i'll tell you then don't don't feel you you can't say but basically basically you know the the one reason is to you know the the one reason is to you know the the one reason is to present it as present it as present it as well it's not going to be so bad well it's not going to be so bad well it's not going to be so bad it's only low level it's a little bit of it's only low level it's a little bit of it's only low level it's a little bit of discomfort a little bit unpleasant discomfort a little bit unpleasant discomfort a little bit unpleasant no big deal no big deal no big deal and that might be the case but it

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and that might be the case but it and that might be the case but it doesn't have to be always the case doesn't have to be always the case doesn't have to be always the case when you think of the seat belt what does it do it has a constant what does it do it has a constant tone different seat belts have different different seat belts have different a little bit different variations but a little bit different variations but a little bit different variations but they all give a tone a signal right after a little bit if you don't after a little bit if you don't put your seatbelt on put your seatbelt on put your seatbelt on in some cars the seat belt tone goes a in some cars the seat belt tone goes a in some cars the seat belt tone goes a little bit higher and why does it stop because and why does it stop because at some point if you really were that at some point if you really were that at some point if you really were that stubborn not to put the seatbelt on stubborn not to put the seatbelt on stubborn not to put the seatbelt on you're obviously not going to anymore you're obviously not going to anymore you're obviously not going to anymore right now now it has it has it has it has it has it has these two features these two features these two features the the tone the the tone the the tone but it's mostly but it's mostly but it's mostly a signal a signal a signal it's mostly a warning signal it's like it's mostly a warning signal it's like it's mostly a warning signal it's like hey hey hey remember to do that remember to do that remember to do that right right right it's also we can argue it like we can it's also we can argue it like we can it's also we can argue it like we can say that it's a some sort of a signpost say that it's a some sort of a signpost say that it's a some sort of a signpost you know how we talk when we talk about you know how we talk when we talk about you know how we talk when we talk about signposts i mean it's really like you signposts i mean it's really like you signposts i mean it's really like you think of a sign on the on the street think of a sign on the on the street think of a sign on the on the street it's it guides you it tells you what to it's it guides you it tells you what to it's it guides you it tells you what to do do do it suggests you what to do it suggests you what to do it suggests you what to do because probably there is consequences because probably there is consequences because probably there is consequences maybe maybe you crash maybe you hurt maybe maybe you crash maybe you hurt maybe maybe you crash maybe you hurt yourself maybe the police yourself maybe the police

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yourself maybe the police writes you a big ticket writes you a big ticket writes you a big ticket but but but it's still it's still it's still a suggestion a suggestion a suggestion a reminder a signal a reminder a signal a reminder a signal it's not it's not it's not that signal not necessarily controlling that signal not necessarily controlling that signal not necessarily controlling you you you right how we talk controlling behavior right how we talk controlling behavior right how we talk controlling behavior now now now is it annoying is it annoying is it annoying yeah but that that persistent sound but that that persistent sound you know you know you know it sure can be aversive for it sure can be aversive for it sure can be aversive for many people many people many people but i believe that most people but i believe that most people but i believe that most people respond to it not because of the respond to it not because of the respond to it not because of the aversiveness but the reminder of i aversiveness but the reminder of i aversiveness but the reminder of i should put my seatbelt on i don't want should put my seatbelt on i don't want should put my seatbelt on i don't want to get a ticket i don't want to get in a to get a ticket i don't want to get in a to get a ticket i don't want to get in a crush and not have my seatbelt up crush and not have my seatbelt up crush and not have my seatbelt up one or the two or bought in combination one or the two or bought in combination one or the two or bought in combination it's not aversive enough if any person it's not aversive enough if any person it's not aversive enough if any person says i don't want to do it you're not gonna do it you're not gonna do it right right right so think of think of positive reinforcement you have you have some some some labrador labrador labrador that's really well fed he just had a that's really well fed he just had a that's really well fed he just had a good meal and you have some kind of old good meal and you have some kind of old good meal and you have some kind of old dog biscuit dog biscuit dog biscuit and you're asking him to do behavior and and you're asking him to do behavior and and you're asking him to do behavior and you're going to reinforce it you're going to reinforce it you're going to reinforce it he says he says he says i don't like that dog biscuit i actually i don't like that dog biscuit i actually i don't like that dog biscuit i actually don't feel eating at all right now what would we do in that situation if we what would we do in that situation if we want that want that want that reinforcement to work right

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reinforcement to work right reinforcement to work right we have to we have to we have to escalate somehow we have to escalate somehow we have to escalate somehow we have to change we need to make the dog want the change we need to make the dog want the change we need to make the dog want the cookie we need to maybe cookie we need to maybe cookie we need to maybe not feed them for the morning feeding not feed them for the morning feeding not feed them for the morning feeding maybe give a more interesting treat maybe give a more interesting treat maybe give a more interesting treat something that actually is going to make something that actually is going to make something that actually is going to make the dog the dog the dog respond to right respond to right respond to right so it's very much the same with the so it's very much the same with the so it's very much the same with the negative reinforcement negative reinforcement negative reinforcement when when when that tone that tone that tone doesn't do the job doesn't do the job doesn't do the job if we really want to have negative if we really want to have negative if we really want to have negative reinforcement reinforcement reinforcement then we have to have another level then we have to have another level then we have to have another level of aversive of aversive of aversive intensity intensity intensity that's going to say well that's going to say well that's going to say well how about now would you put your how about now would you put your how about now would you put your seatbelt now seatbelt now seatbelt now and you're still and you're still and you're still fighting with it and i think you know now where i'm going and i think you know now where i'm going that intensity will that intensity will that intensity will increase increase increase until it convinces you until it convinces you until it convinces you to put the seat belt on to put the seat belt on to put the seat belt on imagine positive reinforcement you have imagine positive reinforcement you have imagine positive reinforcement you have that cookie you have that lab that cookie you have that lab that cookie you have that lab and you're telling him sitting he just and you're telling him sitting he just and you're telling him sitting he just goes goes goes thank you very much i don't need to sit thank you very much i don't need to sit thank you very much i don't need to sit not that different than just clipping not that different than just clipping not that different than just clipping the seatbelt behind your decision to put the seatbelt behind your decision to put

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the seatbelt behind your decision to put the seatbelt on it just it it depends on the seatbelt on it just it it depends on the seatbelt on it just it it depends on the level of motivation right and that the level of motivation right and that the level of motivation right and that level of motivation is going to change level of motivation is going to change level of motivation is going to change and that's the thing with negative and that's the thing with negative and that's the thing with negative reinforcement that this thing with any reinforcement that this thing with any reinforcement that this thing with any reinforcement and any punishment reinforcement and any punishment reinforcement and any punishment nothing is nothing is nothing is constant like like if you just for the sake of if you just for the sake of if you just for the sake of uh uh uh visual visual visual you know is easy to understand you know is easy to understand you know is easy to understand let's say we have from scale one to ten let's say we have from scale one to ten let's say we have from scale one to ten electric collar electric collar electric collar and and and i want you to do something or i don't i want you to do something or i don't i want you to do something or i don't want you to do something and i can top want you to do something and i can top want you to do something and i can top level two which is you probably need to level two which is you probably need to level two which is you probably need to kind of stop and concentrate to feel kind of stop and concentrate to feel kind of stop and concentrate to feel something something something but you say wow okay i'm not gonna do it but you say wow okay i'm not gonna do it but you say wow okay i'm not gonna do it or i will or i will or i will i will eagerly do tomorrow or not even tomorrow maybe in tomorrow or not even tomorrow maybe in an hour an hour an hour may require more or less may require more or less may require more or less level of intensity level of intensity level of intensity depending on what depending on what depending on what depending how you feel about it at the depending how you feel about it at the depending how you feel about it at the moment how motivated you are level of motivation dictates level of motivation dictates the level of intensity to convince you the level of intensity to convince you the level of intensity to convince you either to be able to reinforce the either to be able to reinforce the either to be able to reinforce the behavior behavior behavior or to stop a behavior reinforcement on or to stop a behavior reinforcement on

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or to stop a behavior reinforcement on punishment right punishment right punishment right but it's your motivation or the dogs or but it's your motivation or the dogs or but it's your motivation or the dogs or or the person that's putting the or the person that's putting the or the person that's putting the seatbelt on seatbelt on seatbelt on that's gonna dictate that that's gonna dictate that that's gonna dictate that and so there is your problem why is it and so there is your problem why is it and so there is your problem why is it poor analogy the seatbelt because it's a poor analogy the seatbelt because it's a poor analogy the seatbelt because it's a constant it does not it cannot escalate constant it does not it cannot escalate constant it does not it cannot escalate more than that little more than that little more than that little louder tone and then it ends you can you can make a shortcut exactly you can make a shortcut exactly you can make a shortcut exactly you can get that seatbelt clip it behind you get that seatbelt clip it behind you get that seatbelt clip it behind you and you can neutralize the sound and you can neutralize the sound and you can neutralize the sound but actually not perform what what's required not not perform what what's required not not show the behavior that you should show the behavior that you should show the behavior that you should so that's another poor feature of so that's another poor feature of so that's another poor feature of you know if you if you're reinforcing you know if you if you're reinforcing you know if you if you're reinforcing you have to be able to actually you have to be able to actually you have to be able to actually reinforce the behavior reinforce the behavior reinforce the behavior as i was originally thinking about this as i was originally thinking about this as i was originally thinking about this and even now sometimes it's almost stuck and even now sometimes it's almost stuck and even now sometimes it's almost stuck with me and i play with it with me and i play with it with me and i play with it and and and when we're in the car and natalya will when we're in the car and natalya will when we're in the car and natalya will be like okay i know what you're doing be like okay i know what you're doing be like okay i know what you're doing because in the beginning she will i put because in the beginning she will i put because in the beginning she will i put your seatbelt on your seatbelt on your seatbelt on and i'm like just not putting it on and i'm like just not putting it on and i'm like just not putting it on and then i wait i wait i wait

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and then i wait i wait i wait and then i wait i wait i wait it goes a little louder or whatever then it goes a little louder or whatever then it goes a little louder or whatever then it ends up it ends up it ends up beeping and then i just put it on i mean beeping and then i just put it on i mean beeping and then i just put it on i mean i'm just playing games i'm just playing games i'm just playing games because i'm bored on the road right because i'm bored on the road right because i'm bored on the road right but it really shows you but it really shows you but it really shows you how how how it's not the best example it's not the best example it's not the best example so two problems actually more than two so two problems actually more than two so two problems actually more than two problems but two big problems one is it problems but two big problems one is it problems but two big problems one is it stays constant stays constant stays constant it doesn't reflect it doesn't reflect it doesn't reflect the motivation the motivation the motivation of the driver or the motivation of the of the driver or the motivation of the of the driver or the motivation of the dog we cannot play with the levels dog we cannot play with the levels dog we cannot play with the levels it's easier to it's easier to it's easier to cheat cheat cheat so when you so when you so when you want to have a good reinforcement want to have a good reinforcement want to have a good reinforcement negative reinforcement negative reinforcement negative reinforcement you have to be able you have to be able you have to be able to control the intensity of the aversive to control the intensity of the aversive to control the intensity of the aversive this is a must because sometimes because sometimes you may need very little or nothing and you may need very little or nothing and you may need very little or nothing and respond straight to the signal and respond straight to the signal and respond straight to the signal and sometimes depending on your stubbornness sometimes depending on your stubbornness sometimes depending on your stubbornness and commitment and motivation not to and commitment and motivation not to and commitment and motivation not to it has to reach a level that's going to it has to reach a level that's going to it has to reach a level that's going to convince you and that level it's not and that level it's not punishment punishment punishment that's that's that's the big kind of the big kind of the big kind of bubble that bubble that bubble that somebody somebody somebody can get into again with thinking that can get into again with thinking that

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can get into again with thinking that the low levels are reinforced for the low levels are reinforced for the low levels are reinforced for reinforcement and the high levels are reinforcement and the high levels are reinforcement and the high levels are for for for punishment you can you can punish punishment you can you can punish punishment you can you can punish think of think of think of how we talk in class the how we talk in class the how we talk in class the you know you know you know a police pulls you over a police pulls you over a police pulls you over gives you a warning gives you a warning gives you a warning is it a punishment of course it is is it a punishment of course it is is it a punishment of course it is from from from level of intensity yeah it's pretty mild level of intensity yeah it's pretty mild level of intensity yeah it's pretty mild they just told you don't do that again they just told you don't do that again they just told you don't do that again and you said okay and you said okay and you said okay but if you decide to but if you decide to but if you decide to disrespect that warning you will get higher and then you will you will get higher and then you will get higher and then this will keep going get higher and then this will keep going get higher and then this will keep going until eventually probably your license until eventually probably your license until eventually probably your license gets suspended and you pay very and you pay very different different different price for your insurance right imagine if the police officer always imagine if the police officer always says hey don't do that says hey don't do that says hey don't do that next time you're like yes officer thank next time you're like yes officer thank next time you're like yes officer thank you and you go and then you and you go and then you and you go and then two days later he stops he's like two days later he stops he's like two days later he stops he's like yeah remember don't do that and that yeah remember don't do that and that yeah remember don't do that and that goes on goes on goes on that's kind of how the negative uh how that's kind of how the negative uh how that's kind of how the negative uh how the seat belt thing works so the seat belt thing works so the seat belt thing works so the level of motivation again essential the level of motivation again essential the level of motivation again essential and and and it must be talked about when we talk it must be talked about when we talk it must be talked about when we talk about reinforcement if we if we want to about reinforcement if we if we want to

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about reinforcement if we if we want to explain reinforcement correctly explain reinforcement correctly explain reinforcement correctly that seatbelt analogy that seatbelt analogy that seatbelt analogy is very very is very very is very very poor again it doesn't imply poor again it doesn't imply poor again it doesn't imply any level being low being any level being low being any level being low being high being anything in between high being anything in between high being anything in between it just it has to do its purpose it has it just it has to do its purpose it has it just it has to do its purpose it has to serve its purpose and to serve its purpose and to serve its purpose and control your behavior and in that control your behavior and in that control your behavior and in that instance because it is to reinforce instance because it is to reinforce instance because it is to reinforce basically it's gonna have to convince basically it's gonna have to convince basically it's gonna have to convince you to do something that you know what you to do something that you know what you to do something that you know what to do it's not a guess right to do it's not a guess right to do it's not a guess right we talk about we talk about we talk about what negative reinforcement love one of what negative reinforcement love one of what negative reinforcement love one of the most important things at least in the most important things at least in the most important things at least in twc twc twc is what is what is what the easy way out right the easy way out right the easy way out right don't get so quiet we we don't like the dog to struggle we we don't like the dog to struggle we don't like if you go first time in we don't like if you go first time in we don't like if you go first time in the car and you have no idea how to put the car and you have no idea how to put the car and you have no idea how to put a seat belt a seat belt a seat belt and that tone is beeping and eventually and eventually a week later you figure it out it's like a week later you figure it out it's like a week later you figure it out it's like wow okay wow okay wow okay you want somebody to show it much easier you want somebody to show it much easier you want somebody to show it much easier much nicer right much nicer right much nicer right so that's uh that's another important so that's uh that's another important so that's uh that's another important thing to to know about but but yeah it's uh yeah it's uh yeah it's uh it goes all the way back to skinner as i it goes all the way back to skinner as i

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it goes all the way back to skinner as i said like he kind of summed it up all in said like he kind of summed it up all in said like he kind of summed it up all in one thing one thing one thing oh it's using aversive oh it's using aversive oh it's using aversive reinforcement punishment reinforcement punishment reinforcement punishment then then then after some time things changed a little after some time things changed a little after some time things changed a little bit bit bit but um but um but um again even today again even today again even today it's very widely it's very widely it's very widely believed that believed that believed that not not just among dog trainers this is not not just among dog trainers this is not not just among dog trainers this is like i talked with with like i talked with with like i talked with with people that people that people that you know scientists behaviors you know scientists behaviors you know scientists behaviors evolutionary psychologists psychologists it is really it is really widely misunderstood concept widely misunderstood concept widely misunderstood concept so so so since the seat belt analogy is so widely since the seat belt analogy is so widely since the seat belt analogy is so widely used used used you you might as well just you you might as well just you you might as well just do it just what i just told you do it just what i just told you do it just what i just told you and explained that that's a bad analogy and explained that that's a bad analogy and explained that that's a bad analogy now what will be a good analogy now what will be a good analogy now what will be a good analogy any analogy will be good any analogy will be good any analogy will be good if what what are the what what are the the important pieces it has to be able the important pieces it has to be able the important pieces it has to be able to escape and later avoid to escape and later avoid to escape and later avoid that puts it in a reinforcement category overcome the level of motivation overcome the level of motivation right so that means right so that means right so that means to control to convince you to control to convince you to control to convince you we have to match we have to match we have to match and actually go above your and actually go above your and actually go above your level of stubbornness level of stubbornness level of stubbornness and say no dude you have to do that and once we convince that what happens and once we convince that what happens next is very interesting too because next is very interesting too because

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next is very interesting too because let's say we need to go from one to ten let's say we need to go from one to ten let's say we need to go from one to ten again on scale regardless of what the again on scale regardless of what the again on scale regardless of what the aversive is aversive is aversive is but we start with three and then we go but we start with three and then we go but we start with three and then we go to five and then we go to seven and it's to five and then we go to seven and it's to five and then we go to seven and it's like okay i'm gonna put the seat belt on that doesn't mean that we have to stay that doesn't mean that we have to stay on seven on seven on seven next time the warning signal comes and next time the warning signal comes and next time the warning signal comes and it's like yep it's like yep it's like yep i'm ready let's go that's what negative reinforcement is that's what negative reinforcement is about you have to adjust about you have to adjust about you have to adjust it's not a constant so that that's really when you so that that's really when you anytime you talk to to uh anytime you talk to to uh anytime you talk to to uh your pet client or a your pet client or a your pet client or a sport sport sport trainer your body trainer your body trainer your body whatever in its whatever in its whatever in its negative reinforcement discussion it matches the level of motivation it matches the level of motivation and it makes you and it makes you and it makes you perform do something but it doesn't but it doesn't it never ever should it never ever should it never ever should imply a certain level like whenever i talk like on social like whenever i talk like on social media sometimes and we have some media sometimes and we have some media sometimes and we have some conversation there is always i i would conversation there is always i i would conversation there is always i i would mention something and for some reason mention something and for some reason mention something and for some reason everybody thinks that oh everybody thinks that oh everybody thinks that oh if you're not using low level that means if you're not using low level that means if you're not using low level that means that you're hammering dogs that you're hammering dogs that you're hammering dogs like no it really does not mean that like no it really does not mean that like no it really does not mean that i'm not the one to decide if i am i'm not the one to decide if i am i'm not the one to decide if i am if if if the dog doesn't want the cookie the dog doesn't want the cookie

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the dog doesn't want the cookie i will offer some different treat i will offer some different treat i will offer some different treat if he doesn't want that treat maybe i if he doesn't want that treat maybe i if he doesn't want that treat maybe i will offer a ball will offer a ball will offer a ball maybe he will skip a meal maybe he will skip a meal maybe he will skip a meal but i will convince him to want it and but i will convince him to want it and but i will convince him to want it and make the behavior make the behavior make the behavior and if we have negative reinforcement and if we have negative reinforcement and if we have negative reinforcement and i say hey do that and i make a and i say hey do that and i make a and i say hey do that and i make a little pop on the leash and he's like little pop on the leash and he's like little pop on the leash and he's like no this is way more important right now no this is way more important right now no this is way more important right now i know what you want but i'm not gonna i know what you want but i'm not gonna i know what you want but i'm not gonna then we meet him then we meet him then we meet him and say no you really have to and then and say no you really have to and then and say no you really have to and then we convince him that okay i do it and the very next time we ask him we may and the very next time we ask him we may not even need to do anything not even need to do anything not even need to do anything aversive just the signal aversive just the signal aversive just the signal and you have the response and you have the response and you have the response we don't know it can we don't know it can we don't know it can this is the thing it varies it's not a this is the thing it varies it's not a this is the thing it varies it's not a constant yeah so if you think of any analogy go yeah so if you think of any analogy go ahead correct correct correct so you can certainly do that too correct so you can certainly do that too correct so you can certainly do that too until you put the seat belt on the car until you put the seat belt on the car until you put the seat belt on the car doesn't go doesn't go doesn't go it's a it's a it's a now i cannot argue that that's a bad now i cannot argue that that's a bad now i cannot argue that that's a bad example of negative punishment because example of negative punishment because example of negative punishment because it totally is going to serve the purpose it totally is going to serve the purpose it totally is going to serve the purpose assuming that you want to go somewhere assuming that you want to go somewhere

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assuming that you want to go somewhere and you're not just playing with the and you're not just playing with the and you're not just playing with the seat belt right anybody can think of cool example maybe anybody can think of cool example maybe we can change we can change we can change all together the all together the all together the the examples you know like it's it's the examples you know like it's it's the examples you know like it's it's really insane how how popular that example is and how how popular that example is and how misleading it is misleading it is misleading it is i mean i i again i've talked to so many i mean i i again i've talked to so many i mean i i again i've talked to so many different different different people from different people from different people from different uh um uh um uh um different different education and different different education and different different education and different you know different you know different you know things that they do and things that they do and things that they do and you would think that they would know you would think that they would know you would think that they would know but you go you listen to but you go you listen to but you go you listen to i don't know go to i don't know go to i don't know go to i mean on youtube you can find i mean on youtube you can find i mean on youtube you can find everything but even if you go to some everything but even if you go to some everything but even if you go to some lectures on lectures on lectures on reinforcement or operant conditioning reinforcement or operant conditioning reinforcement or operant conditioning most likely most likely most likely and some college and some college and some college teacher or professor explaining to the teacher or professor explaining to the teacher or professor explaining to the class class class what negative reinforcement is what negative reinforcement is what negative reinforcement is chances are 99 that you will hear chances are 99 that you will hear chances are 99 that you will hear the seat belt analogy or another one will be well you have a or another one will be well you have a headache and you take aspirin headache and you take aspirin headache and you take aspirin or something of that nature or it's or something of that nature or it's or something of that nature or it's raining and you put an umbrella raining and you put an umbrella raining and you put an umbrella the the the yes they are yes they are yes they are more more more negative reinforcement than the seat negative reinforcement than the seat negative reinforcement than the seat belt but it's still

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belt but it's still belt but it's still like in dog training the the thing with like in dog training the the thing with like in dog training the the thing with negative reinforcement and positive negative reinforcement and positive negative reinforcement and positive reinforcement is like we we want to have reinforcement is like we we want to have reinforcement is like we we want to have a cue we want to have a signal we want a cue we want to have a signal we want a cue we want to have a signal we want the dog to respond and then we are the dog to respond and then we are the dog to respond and then we are playing with options how we can playing with options how we can playing with options how we can reinforce how we can convince the dog to reinforce how we can convince the dog to reinforce how we can convince the dog to respond in a certain way without kill respond in a certain way without kill respond in a certain way without kill yeah so yeah so yeah so you're going outside and it's raining you're going outside and it's raining you're going outside and it's raining and you have an umbrella it doesn't and you have an umbrella it doesn't and you have an umbrella it doesn't necessarily matches your necessarily matches your necessarily matches your sit or down or come sit or down or come sit or down or come do you understand how do you understand how do you understand how slow that seat belt thing is slow that seat belt thing is slow that seat belt thing is and it really like if you go to and it really like if you go to and it really like if you go to on youtube and go operand conditioning on youtube and go operand conditioning on youtube and go operand conditioning lectures it can be yale university can lectures it can be yale university can lectures it can be yale university can be be be it can be anybody it can be anybody it can be anybody really the chances are that you will really the chances are that you will really the chances are that you will hear this analogy this is how confusing hear this analogy this is how confusing hear this analogy this is how confusing it is it is it is and it's been like this for a very long and it's been like this for a very long and it's been like this for a very long time time time and it's very hard to argue it when you and it's very hard to argue it when you and it's very hard to argue it when you when you actually think a little bit when you actually think a little bit when you actually think a little bit how we can how we can how we can improve improve improve the seat belt the seat belt the seat belt as a negative reinforcer what do we need

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as a negative reinforcer what do we need as a negative reinforcer what do we need to be able to do to be able to do to be able to do what what needs to happen if we're going what what needs to happen if we're going what what needs to happen if we're going to improve the seat belt to improve the seat belt to improve the seat belt to really serve not as a warning signal to really serve not as a warning signal to really serve not as a warning signal and signpost and have us and signpost and have us and signpost and have us annoyance negative reinforcement that is annoyance negative reinforcement that is annoyance negative reinforcement that is very easy to override if you want to how very easy to override if you want to how very easy to override if you want to how can we make it so can we make it so can we make it so it actually really truly is it actually really truly is it actually really truly is uh negative reinforcement electrified i said electrified i said sure sure that was uh sure sure that was uh sure sure that was uh um um um well way back in the ear in the 80s when well way back in the ear in the 80s when well way back in the ear in the 80s when don shoot the dog karen pryor came with don shoot the dog karen pryor came with don shoot the dog karen pryor came with a cheat she came up with a very cool a cheat she came up with a very cool a cheat she came up with a very cool analogy where analogy where analogy where you have the car parked and the meter is you have the car parked and the meter is you have the car parked and the meter is already expired and the already expired and the already expired and the cop comes and blows up the car cop comes and blows up the car cop comes and blows up the car it's it's kind of unreasonable right we it's it's kind of unreasonable right we it's it's kind of unreasonable right we don't we don't need that don't we don't need that don't we don't need that but but but we can get there we can get there we can get there it's just there's got to be levels it's just there's got to be levels it's just there's got to be levels something in between something in between something in between right right right it cannot be it cannot be it cannot be this this this and tapa and tapa and tapa so we can we can increase the sound i so we can we can increase the sound i so we can we can increase the sound i mean if it's gonna be a sound let's mean if it's gonna be a sound let's mean if it's gonna be a sound let's increase it let's go to almost like the increase it let's go to almost like the increase it let's go to almost like the soccer maniacs with the horns the

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soccer maniacs with the horns the soccer maniacs with the horns the beautiful beautiful beautiful like i'm sure tesla ellen can come up like i'm sure tesla ellen can come up like i'm sure tesla ellen can come up with some with some with some weird sounds that you are putting that weird sounds that you are putting that weird sounds that you are putting that seat belt on seat belt on seat belt on but there's got to be levels this is but there's got to be levels this is but there's got to be levels this is what it's important what it's important what it's important like anytime you hear this like anytime you hear this like anytime you hear this you don't need to convince the world you don't need to convince the world you don't need to convince the world otherwise otherwise otherwise but when you are working with a client i but when you are working with a client i but when you are working with a client i think it's your duty to to explain how think it's your duty to to explain how think it's your duty to to explain how things work and that things work and that things work and that as long as as long as as long as the dog understands what is asked from the dog understands what is asked from the dog understands what is asked from them it's very different if we're them it's very different if we're them it's very different if we're applying applying applying contingent and non-contingent aversive contingent and non-contingent aversive contingent and non-contingent aversive this is this almost in all the studies this is this almost in all the studies this is this almost in all the studies the the the the the the you know that you know that you know that end up banning electric colors and prone end up banning electric colors and prone end up banning electric colors and prone colors and whatever there is always this colors and whatever there is always this colors and whatever there is always this well what happens if well what happens if well what happens if the dog cannot make sense of it the dog cannot make sense of it the dog cannot make sense of it it's a bad idea which there's no need to it's a bad idea which there's no need to it's a bad idea which there's no need to make a study off of that make a study off of that make a study off of that it's a bad idea it's a bad idea it's a bad idea but there is many bad ideas in the world but there is many bad ideas in the world but there is many bad ideas in the world and we don't and we don't and we don't you know we don't forbid forks because you know we don't forbid forks because you know we don't forbid forks because some dumbass some dumbass some dumbass just spot himself and

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just spot himself and just spot himself and you know you know you know um um um [Music] [Music] [Music] so how do we make a seat belt how do we make a seat belt that can escalate but before it blows up that can escalate but before it blows up that can escalate but before it blows up the car the car the car we have levels we have levels we have levels i've thought of it you can you can start with the sound you can you can start with the sound you can start to make you can start to make you can start to make um like like the sound can increases you like like the sound can increases you can start some low level of electric can start some low level of electric can start some low level of electric you can increase the level of electric you can increase the level of electric you can increase the level of electric whatever it is it has to be whatever it is it has to be whatever it is it has to be unpleasant enough unpleasant enough unpleasant enough whatever that is whatever that is whatever that is to the to the to the that particular subject that particular subject that particular subject to convince them to convince them to convince them to respond to respond to respond so that intensity never really reflects that intensity never really reflects your mood as a trainer and your your mood as a trainer and your your mood as a trainer and your frustration frustration frustration that's that's that's bad training right we know that bad training right we know that bad training right we know that before the intensity increases we need to make sure that we need to make sure that you understand you understand you understand what you need to do so as i said if what you need to do so as i said if what you need to do so as i said if you're going to sit in the car and the you're going to sit in the car and the you're going to sit in the car and the tone starts and then it keeps going and tone starts and then it keeps going and tone starts and then it keeps going and then it keeps doing all sorts of things then it keeps doing all sorts of things then it keeps doing all sorts of things but you have no idea what to do but you have no idea what to do but you have no idea what to do that will be wrong that will be wrong that will be wrong that will be very unfair to you right that will be very unfair to you right that will be very unfair to you right so we we have to be certain that so we we have to be certain that so we we have to be certain that either either either the subject knows what to do it's the subject knows what to do it's the subject knows what to do it's instructed and we know that it can instructed and we know that it can

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instructed and we know that it can or or or it's a ref uh uh uh i cannot say the it's a ref uh uh uh i cannot say the it's a ref uh uh uh i cannot say the word no word no word no but by reflex you know like let's say but by reflex you know like let's say but by reflex you know like let's say you're touching something and you feel you're touching something and you feel you're touching something and you feel that little electric impulse what you're that little electric impulse what you're that little electric impulse what you're gonna do you're not gonna push back gonna do you're not gonna push back gonna do you're not gonna push back harder you're gonna go back harder you're gonna go back harder you're gonna go back in that situation you do not necessarily in that situation you do not necessarily in that situation you do not necessarily need need need very deep instruction because very deep instruction because very deep instruction because by reflex you will respond in the way by reflex you will respond in the way by reflex you will respond in the way that you that you that you you should be responding you should be responding you should be responding but with the seatbelt we yeah this is but with the seatbelt we yeah this is but with the seatbelt we yeah this is what you do you put your signal on and what you do you put your signal on and what you do you put your signal on and you explain you why and you explain you why and you explain you why and and that's the pros that's the cons you and that's the pros that's the cons you and that's the pros that's the cons you decide what you do decide what you do decide what you do but if you want to make a reinforcement but if you want to make a reinforcement but if you want to make a reinforcement then that's how it's gonna go then that's how it's gonna go then that's how it's gonna go now as as we we said you know yes we can as as we we said you know yes we can really really escalate but the the level of aversif has to be level of aversif has to be level of aversif has to be applied it has to be a smart level applied it has to be a smart level applied it has to be a smart level what are we looking on you you mentioned what are we looking on you you mentioned what are we looking on you you mentioned that already safe state of emergency right so the i safe state of emergency right so the i i'll read it to you the the ideal i'll read it to you the the ideal i'll read it to you the the ideal emotional state for learning is a state emotional state for learning is a state emotional state for learning is a state of safe emergency of safe emergency

31:44

of safe emergency in other words there is a high level of in other words there is a high level of in other words there is a high level of attention attention attention without without without the negative impact of anxiety so we you know we're very purposefully so we you know we're very purposefully methodically without methodically without methodically without frustration where this is this what frustration where this is this what frustration where this is this what teaching is what reinforcement can look teaching is what reinforcement can look teaching is what reinforcement can look like like like so the the thing i thought of is if the so the the thing i thought of is if the so the the thing i thought of is if the car had a sensor to car had a sensor to car had a sensor to detect whether you put in the seat belt detect whether you put in the seat belt detect whether you put in the seat belt your insurance company raises up your your insurance company raises up your your insurance company raises up your premium it raises the price until you premium it raises the price until you premium it raises the price until you start putting on your seat belt start putting on your seat belt start putting on your seat belt um and that would you know compel you to um and that would you know compel you to um and that would you know compel you to put on your seat belt put on your seat belt put on your seat belt but it's really good one but it's really good one but it's really good one that's that's just that's that's just that's that's just priceless yeah the technology it's like priceless yeah the technology it's like priceless yeah the technology it's like oh pop pop pop pop oh guess what oh pop pop pop pop oh guess what oh pop pop pop pop oh guess what you feel comfortable talking about it you feel comfortable talking about it you feel comfortable talking about it because they you know like your client because they you know like your client because they you know like your client will say hey will say hey will say hey i don't want to use this i don't want to use this i don't want to use this this is unethical this is this is unethical this is this is unethical this is you know we're gonna blow up my dog and you know we're gonna blow up my dog and you know we're gonna blow up my dog and i love my dog and you can really you know there is a and you can really you know there is a very reasonable very reasonable very reasonable place for it sometimes place for it sometimes place for it sometimes to to summarize and close this one what to to summarize and close this one what to to summarize and close this one what did we learn

33:08

did we learn did we learn it has to match it has to match it has to match the intensity of diversif has too much the intensity of diversif has too much the intensity of diversif has too much the level of motivation it cannot be the level of motivation it cannot be the level of motivation it cannot be constant constant constant otherwise it's very poor example of otherwise it's very poor example of otherwise it's very poor example of negative reinforcement and ultimately i negative reinforcement and ultimately i negative reinforcement and ultimately i hope you realize hope you realize hope you realize the the beeping tone in the seat belt the the beeping tone in the seat belt the the beeping tone in the seat belt serves more the purpose of a warning serves more the purpose of a warning serves more the purpose of a warning signal signal signal a reminder a signpost done negative a reminder a signpost done negative a reminder a signpost done negative reinforcement event so so [Music]