E331: 청소년기 반려견에 관한 메건 포스터, 줄리 다니엘스, 에이미 쿡, 에린 라인스(Megan Foster, Julie Daniels, Amy Cook, and Erin Lynes)의 이야기

I'm the developer of The Playway. And I've got a marzipan the whippet, who is retired and blind now, but wishes I could find some sort of job for her still. She never stops. And I have Caper, the Chihuahua Terrier thing, small little 11-pound dog, who is my agility dog, and both of whom I had through their at least adolescence, if not part of puppyhood. And so I remember it well. And I think they are why I really love adolescence, actually. And agility is the sport I love most. Awesome. Awesome. So since the topic of the day is adolescence, I thought it might make sense just to kind of start off by talking about why the topic matters. So what changes are typical or have you maybe seen in your own dogs as they've gone from kind of those baby puppies to these adolescent dogs? Megan? Sure. I kind of think of it as they know a little now about how the world works, but they think they know everything about how the world works. And so they're developing their worldview. They're maybe coming into some bigger feelings about things that they have exposure to. Like when they're puppies, everything is neutral. And they're like, OK, whatever. Like, this is fine. But then they start to learn about things and what they like and what they don't like. So they have more feelings. They have more opinions than they did when they were puppies. And so we just can't. That's what it is to me is that they think they know everything and they really don't know anything. And we just have to. Survive that gap together. Yeah. What about you, Erin? I, like Amy said, actually really enjoy adolescence with dogs. So I think that something that is interesting about adolescence is how things that maybe were sort of neutral or uninteresting in their life up to that point suddenly become more interesting. So there's a little bit of like a rediscovery period, both for what the puppy is going through and how they're experiencing and perceiving the world, but also how we are experiencing our dogs and how we're sort of in that new place where they're noticing new stuff. Maybe we're not the focus of their whole world anymore, which can hurt our feelings a little bit. Sometimes I'm sad that I'm not as cool as I used to be in comparison to the world around me for my dogs, but it also shows you maybe new aspects of their personality that are developing and how they relay that to the world around them. So there's, I think you can, I think you can really enjoy adolescence if you think of it from that perspective about how, how things become new again. So you've got another opportunity to, to reconnect with your puppy in new ways. Amy?

Um, I think that in adolescence, uh, what I really, you know, think of it as is that they're going to go through big emotional changes and big opinion changes because they're getting big adult bodies and, and some bravery around what they can now do. They're not, they're not baby puppies anymore. Um, and I love that every day is a different day. Every day is a, an adventure reminds you to, to stay not on the track you necessarily thought you were on. You know, when you woke up that day, what you were going to do, what dog you had yesterday. Um, there there's more, you know, flexibility kind of built into the system. Who do I have today? And I think it's important because so often people are, are worried about this time, their puppy left and their dog's gotten suspicious and there's a whole bunch of changes. And there's so much about this. That's stay the course. You're okay. Your, your dog is growing. It's going to be fine. Um, and that's not always the message we kind of bring out. So I'm really glad that, that we get to isolate adolescents and talk about it so that we can reassure people that it really is just, it's a stage and there's a plan for it and you're going to be fine. Awesome. Julie. Yeah. I think they just all covered it perfectly. Yeah. I love adolescence. And, and when I see it coming, of course it, it, um, it carries mixed emotions for the person, just like there were so many mixed emotions in the dog. And I love sympathizing with that brain that, you know, didn't notice something yesterday and today just blows up with alarm because like, who knew that was there? And even though it had been there throughout their puppy hood and it was nothing to them, all of a sudden it's a big deal. So, um, thinking about planning ahead day by day, because like Amy said, like it's a different dog every day and you've really got to just meet them where they are because their brains are all over the place, processing things at a phenomenal rate and their brains are, are guessing machines trying to figure out where does this fit and how does it affect me and how to categorize and catalog everything, which is what they're trying to do every single moment of every single day. So my, um, the biggest takeaway for me is when I see, um, an interesting day coming up, shall we say, boy, just put on the long line again. Like, I don't care how that puppy followed you around as a baby, like that's gone. And it's certainly gone today. And it is a different day by day, but we have to bring out, bring back all those maintenance, um, good habits, the maintenance of good habits that we've already created.

And perhaps we thought we, you know, had installed pretty well and it's still in there. I think that's the thing to remember throughout adolescence. It's not like that perfect recall is gone. It's still in there, but it's just being overwritten by all this attraction to novelty that the adolescent naturally feels a healthy adolescent is drawn toward novelty. So it's good to remember that just prepare for it. Um, refresh all the things that you thought they already knew. And, um, like Amy said, like, don't worry about it. It's a phase, it's a phase and how we handle it, handling it with, you know, preparation, good preparation and patience and, um, um, meeting them wherever they are right now today. That's the best way to get through adolescence. Might as well enjoy it. That leads us perfectly into our next question, which is, you know, kind of what, if anything, do you do to prepare for this phase of your dog's life? Are there skills or expectations you kind of think about in advance, um, training plan tweaks, kind of, how do you approach it, Erin? Expectations that are flexible is very helpful and, and not being afraid to take two steps back. So when that new dog appears out of adolescence and you're, you're seeing all these behaviors, maybe you didn't see before, um, avoid panic reactions. It's not necessarily permanent. These phases that they go through through adolescence are just, are, are just a blip on the radar. So like Julie said, put your long line back on it. Maybe today's not an off leash day. Maybe that spooky stranger is going to, uh, be someone we don't visit today. Um, you might find yourself revisiting training locations that you've already used before. Recycle those things as new places because your, your adolescent dog is noticing new things about them for the first time. Um, and a little familiarity doesn't hurt. So, uh, just being, just being open to the idea that. So it's not going to be a necessarily a steady upward climb on, on building skills. You're going to be going back a few steps here and there to revisit things and, and not worrying about that too much. It's normal. It's part of the process. All puppies have some sort of regression in, in some aspect. And it's not, it's, um, it's not going to be the end of the world. You're going to get through it. Um, for me already having established myself as somebody that the puppy trust to make good decisions is, is something I really try and set up in advance. So any situation while we're, while the little one is growing up, um, where I can show them that I make good decisions that doesn't put them into a scary place.

It doesn't overwhelm them. It's something I hope that we can fall back on later on during adolescence when times get tough. So that's probably the main pillar of what I want to be building in preparation for adolescence. Amy? Well, you know, for me, it's about, you know, I care less about for the, for the most part, exactly which skills they're doing really well. Um, you know, precision wise as part of my larger goals for them. And I, I think about it a lot as how are you in environments that I bring you into? What is your emotional life like for you? What is your relationship to your own arousal? Can you handle, you know, being excited about things, uh, without kind of losing control of that? What, you know, what is your emotional landscape and how are you taking in the worlds that I bring you into? So in preparation for that, I want, I want really good interaction skills with my dog, good interactions so that I can read where they are right now. Right. Um, my interaction with them will be assessment. How are you feeling? Can you do what I'm asking you to do? Can you play with me right now? If not, do I need to give you some time to, to settle where we are? If I come in with a prearranged idea, we're going to work on these things. I want my dog to know these things here. Then I might not be really tuned into how are you feeling where we are right now? Can you do some of this fun stuff we do together so that I can assess how you're feeling right now? It's really important for me not to have dogs overwhelmed. Right. And I think it's important for all of us. We don't want our dogs overwhelmed, but if you don't go in with a plan of how you're going to assess overwhelm instead of maybe, uh, cover the overwhelm by doing fun things, you know, um, I want to kind of, uh, uh, unveil, I want to reveal that there's some overwhelm so I can make good decisions for my dog emotionally. Um, so, you know, that period is about, am I reading you accurately? Am I supporting you? Well, am I giving you the right things to do in the right environments more than what can you do dog? What, you know, preparation have you had? Like what, what preparation have I put into it to make sure I'm reading you well? Um, because I want to make sure that my main goals are achieved, that you have emotional safety. You, you are safe where you are. You can think through things where you are. You're not overwhelmed. Um, and that I have a lot of ways of having fun with you that assesses that because, because after that, whatever behaviors I particularly want, those are, those are just going to fall in line.

Like, you know, that's the relatively easy work. I don't mean to minimize that, but it's the, it's the more straightforward work. Of raising your dog than the emotional preparation really is. So that's how I see it. Awesome. Um, Julie. Hmm. Yeah. So, um, I'll take this opportunity to mention a category because you mentioned skills that you start when they're a baby that maybe you're going to either revisit or continue with. Um, and, um, one of the skill sets, if you will, uh, that didn't make it into my presentation, but I wanted it to, um, was, is, uh, the potty skill set. We haven't talked about that. Like developing when the dog is a puppy, um, the potty routine. And, and when we, how long we go overnight, what time we get up in the morning, what time of day, this and that, and everything else, um, how we go pee. Can you go pee? The four permutations on leash, off leash at home and away from home. And I find that boy, nothing falls apart in adolescence quicker than the potty skill set. And it is a skill set. It's very important in terms of traveling and daily life and sports and all that stuff with your dog. So refreshing all of that, I think is really important. And as, um, it's not just girls that mark in adult, I mean, it's not just boys that mark lots of female dogs that mark right up with their, with the best of the boys. And, um, that bit about when tomorrow, like we go pee first and then we do this or that. And then maybe we have free pee sniff time after the work session. Um, one of my dogs in adolescence, um, was, um, a terrible marker in a search area in nose work when she became an adolescent, something that never occurred to her as a puppy. You take them to pee, you go do the nose work thing. And then, uh, you know, you take them to pee or socialize again afterwards. And boy, that just fell apart in adolescence. And all of a sudden we were marking all the search areas, which as you can imagine, is very unpopular in the nose work crowd. So like it became a whole, uh, training regimen. Like I got a certain harness for her, a fleece harness that I put on her when we were ready to go to the search area. So first we'd go out to the pee sniff thing, you know, that every adolescent really needs. Acclimation is so important for an adolescent. Then put the harness on, go to the search area. No peeing happens with that harness on ever. And as soon as we're done searching, take that harness off and go back to peeing and sniffing. And I had to maintain that pretty much throughout that dog's adolescence to make sure I could

control the potty skillset, um, in scenarios where, um, adolescent dogs often, you know, lose their minds and, uh, lose their good manners. So I'll just mention that one as one example. I love that example. Megan, what about you? Yeah. Yeah. So this is the part where going last is like everything that they said. So I'll try to summarize. Um, but when they're puppies, it is like Amy was saying about getting to know them and what they're like and how they react to things and how they deal with their own feelings and their relationship to arousal. And then how the skills that I'm building with them around those things. So, and like Aaron was saying, trust in me that I know things, I know cool stuff. You can always count on me. I'm building some desire for the things that I have to offer them because when they hit that adolescence and they start thinking of other things, like when I'm not as important, if I have some things that they also really like that I can convince them that I'm cool still, that's important. Um, so like really making sure that, you know, can, uh, keeping their interest in food and or toys, depending on the dog, keeping that really high, um, teaching them some management skills when they don't need them. Right. Teach those management skills when they're puppies and it's just fun for them. Cause what else are you going to do with a puppy? Teach them precision healing. No. So hope teach them some management skills. Um, teach them some self-regulation skills, teach them how to get excited over something and then come back down and get excited over something and come back down. So that when they don't have as much control over those things during adolescence, you can help guide them back through that concept of, oh yeah, you do know how to do these things and I'm still cool and we're still cool. And this is going to be okay. But I'm always, you have to always be open to tweaking and adjusting and, you know, setting expectations that aren't for your, mostly for yourself, that if you misjudged what your puppy could do that day, you're not a loser and you can try again tomorrow and it's going to be okay. Okay. So if, so not only putting like reasonable expectations on your puppy, make sure you're putting reasonable expectations on yourself because we also all have lives and things to do, even though it feels like we're supposed to center our lives around said puppy. We know that that's not possible to do a hundred percent of the time. And so just do the best you can and it is going to be okay. I love that reminder that we have to look at our expectations of ourselves as well.

It's not just, not just our expectations of the dog. I think it can get a little bit out of hand sometimes of what we expect from other trainers or even what, like we're all instructors and like leaders, right? They're looking to us. And so sometimes it can look like we're doing perfectly a hundred percent of the time. And that is not the case at all. Right. Sometimes the adolescent just goes in the crate with the chew and I can't deal with it right now. Right. Like we all just like need a break sometimes. So it's a cumulative experience, not a everyday reset. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a super good reminder. So I think it's not really an accident, right? That a lot of shelters end up full of dogs who are kind of in this age group. So what kind of naughty behaviors, I know Julia already mentioned marking, do we see kind of pop up during adolescence? And what kind of falls into that, they'll grow out of this. And what falls into that, ooh, this is a hint we might have something bigger going on here and we need to design a training plan to deal with this kind of category. How do you decide, how do you look at some of those behaviors and kind of figure that out as your dog becomes the adult dog that they're working towards? Amy? Well, you know, it's funny to think of behaviors as naughty, right? Because, you know, those of us here on the panel, we know that that's really not what's going on, but that's what it really feels like if you weren't expecting any changes, you know, from your dog. And so often when you get a puppy, especially if it's, you know, has been a fairly easy puppy, you think you've done training that you haven't, or, you know, your puppy's been in a stage where they're not maybe brave enough to go do what you're going to label naughty. And so they're not doing those things. And you think you got that one, you know, for free and you didn't. Um, and I think that naughtiness is often about a dog just having interests now and following them. Um, and so did you leave a bunch of doors open to the interest? Did you leave a bunch of food on the counter? This is when you're going to start seeing, you know, your dog just taking, you know, taking initiative. Um, but we're also, I think not used to funneling behaviors to getting to, into getting good ones. I think we think too much about that. We've trained this. My dog doesn't do this because I've trained them not to do this or train them to do this. And actually they were giving you that for free. Or if you were really mindful about this, you were funneling them toward exactly what you want to see from them, right?

We're funneling them into potty training by preventing them from doing it any other places and funneling them toward the outside, or we're funneling no counter surfing because we didn't put any food up there. We're proactively thinking about it. And so I think the, the, that's not exactly the answer. It's kind of what I'm thinking about, about, uh, you know, about naughtiness and what we see in this space. So if I see things that are a dog taking some initiative, if I see things, a dog having a new opinion about something they didn't have an opinion about before, I'm really just not going to worry about it. I'm going to set my scenario up so that I'm getting the behaviors I most want. And I'm going to stay the course and kind of ride that out. I expect a dog to be suspicious of new things at this point. They've never seen that. Now they're like, well, I don't know if I like it. Like, that's all right. You can have that opinion. I'm not going to panic about this. I want people not to panic about this. And I'm really going to look for, if I need to design a training plan, I'm going to look for, is this because I can't funnel this right now? Um, and just be getting good behaviors from how I'm setting things up. Do I need to train this? Uh, and then if it comes to the, uh, the barking thing or the, I'm worried a little bit emotionally about my dog, I'm really going to look for patterns. I want to see transient behaviors in, in, in adolescent. If I start seeing very consistent, uh, strong opinions about something that I'd like to change their opinion about, that's what I'm going to start thinking about a plan. Because mostly I know that every day is a new day or every week is a new week with a dog. And so I'm not immediately going to jump to training plan. I'm going to jump to, can I funnel this? Can I, can I just channel this dog in the way they need to go, uh, before I worry about it too much. And that, that would be my line. How, how is the consistency going? And what can I control versus what can I, what do I have to teach the dog to do? How are you kind of thinking about consistency there? Are you thinking like five days in a row? Are you thinking this has happened now for three weeks? I mean, you know, I wish there was one recipe and maybe the other trainers on the panel have one. That would be great. Uh, everyone's like, no, no, um, the answer for me is like, let's say they're, you know, barking at a person, right? That's the, that's one of our fears. Oh no, they're going to be afraid of people. Um, I, I immediately start to pare down and say, did I just present some overwhelm to them?

Is it because it was too much too soon? So I'll emphasize our friends and I'll keep strangers at a little further of a distance so they can take those things in. And I'll do some different scenarios. I'll do some different environments. So I'm not sort of repeating what it was that happened. So I'm not working on it or anything. And then if I see, yeah, that was transient. Good. I'll keep it. I'll keep the scenarios being transient. And if I find, oh no, this, this whole new place, even with some distance, I'm still seeing some keying in and barking. Okay. Another data point. Let me change a few more things. Be more casual. Uh, oh look, another data point. We're still getting this, even though I've removed some pressure and I've added some familiarity. I still see my dog having some opinion here. Um, then I might start thinking, all right, do I, do I really have something that, that I, that I missed from before, but mostly with those changes, dogs just go, oh, that was, I didn't really have that opinion anyway. I don't, I don't know what I was barking at. It's gone. Yeah. I don't know if other, if the rest of you think the same, the same way about it. Julie? Yeah, very much feel the same way about it. And the fact that the adolescent brain is so quickly and easily frustrated because it struggles so with, uh, the huge amount of data that it has to process and even data that it's already processed before that we think they were done with, they are seeing completely differently. So, um, you know, when you end up with the poor adolescent is trying to fit, um, a hundred new data points into this limited experience Excel spreadsheet they've got going on about life. Um, it can be really hard for them. Very frustrating. So if I think about what are some of the most common things that do land adolescents into shelters and things that are relevant to most of us who want to have a normal and, and, um, varied life with our dogs, with or without dogs for it. I think of, uh, traveling. And most of all, I think about, um, separation. So it's really common for little puppies to just sleep in a crate with a chewy. And when, when puppies are young, like when their nickel's up, it's up and it doesn't even matter what they're doing, who they're with, who's holding them. Like they're just asleep no matter what, but the adolescent's got a whole lot more stay awake stamina, especially if his little brain is, you know, all twisted up with problems that he's processing and things that he's working on in his head. And they're so in their heads, you might say, but so separation is something where I would say,

Melissa, you are asking like, is this a space or is this a make a training plan? That's a make a training plan. When you see distress from your adolescent, simply because he's been put in a crate with a chew boy, you may have to like make it said, you, it may not be the right time for you to work on it right now, but that's gotta be a red flag that goes into your training plan for the future. So you start, you bring that crate, for example, into the kitchen. And while you're cooking, like anybody who goes in a crate gets, you know, a piece of hamburger dropped in the back of the crate. So it's time to start working on barrier frustration, potential issues and separation potential issues to head them off. If I think about one thing that lands a dog in a shelter on a regular basis, and adolescence is usually the time when that crops up, it would be a separation issues. Yeah, it's definitely a huge category of problems, right? If our dogs can't be where we're not. Megan? Megan? Yeah. So mostly like, do I train it or do I let them grow out of it? Isn't really the question? Because if they're rehearsing it, they won't grow out of it. Whether they no longer have those feelings that are driving it later, like, I think what we're, they probably will grow out of those feelings. But the behavior may still exist, right? Out of habit, just this is what it is. So my like metric is, because a lot of naughty behaviors can also be cute when they're babies, right? So I just go, is this? And you know, today, we take a picture of the naughty and we're like, ah, fine, do that, whatever. But then visualize that picture as your four year old or seven year old, or, you know, especially in these bigger breeds, when your puppy is small, this is maybe very cute, when they are full grown, full feelings, full everything. Is this still cute? If it's not cute, you might want to start making plans to change this. But in everything, if you're seeing a behavior, you don't want to see, there needs to be some adjusting, like Amy was saying about, okay, well, they're having some feelings about people, we need to adjust so that they don't continue to rehearse that reaction, even if that's all it takes to modify that behavior long term. And you might find that as you are trying to modify it, you realize that this is a bigger issue, and is going to take a more extensive training plan. But for like general naughty stuff, it's also like, yeah, most of it is normal. They're just getting curious and experiencing things. So the normal stuff, I just go, is this going to be cute?

Is this? Do I want this behavior? Okay, take one photo, and then we're going to move on. And hopefully reroute these behaviors to something I will want to see when they're an adult. Erin, how about you? Yeah, I was triggered by Megan's photo op comment. As a breeder, when I get a puppy that is in a photographic moment of doing something that I know that they will not appreciate in like two years, I'm like, oh, oh, not the photo. But I actually, I agree with a lot of that. But if it's not cute later, probably, probably don't encourage it now. And I like to, I like to prevent rehearsal of things that are troublesome. So that that's always my first layer of defense against any behavior that is not agreeing with what I want long term or what I want in that moment. It's all like, how can I, how can I get this to not happen right away again? And if I'm finding that it's really hard to prevent that behavior from happening again, then that's probably trading plan territory there. I used to work in a shelter. So I kind of think that a lot of the reasons that we see dogs in this like eight months to one year old age group, being turned into shelters are probably not things that are, our usual FDSA demographic audience would have the same response to, I think that probably our circle is, is going to be able to work through a lot of those same challenges. But in general, a lot of the things that are behaviors, you seem to get for free as puppies, I think that Evie was talking about this, like they'll follow you off leash. So they're leash trained, and they're, they've got a good recall. And then they're eight months old, and they don't need you anymore. You're not that cool. And all of a sudden, it's like, he used to do this, he was trained, now he's not trained anymore. And it's like, well, he was never trained, he just, you were the only thing interesting when he was little. So at that age, you start to see a lot of revelations about behaviors that weren't really trained that you, you kind of were able to cope with easier because they were small, or because the puppy didn't have any other interests. So being kind of proactive as we are as more nerdy dog people, we are probably already reinforcing those sorts of behaviors and already putting money into the bank account for things we want to see more of, and being a little proactive. So I do feel like, you know, this demographic, we can probably be a little less stressed about upcoming adolescents, even though the stats about problem behaviors occurring at that

adolescent age are, are sad for dogs, like that's a that's a tough time to be a dog in the average pet home. But we're, we're already doing all the things you're taking classes, you're taking your puppy out, socialization, socializing them, you're already aware of their emotional state and, and how to monitor it. So those are all pluses for people to, to keep in mind. It's like you're, you're already a few steps ahead of the game here, people don't, don't worry. Fair enough. Um, if I could piggyback on, um, that's something that both of you mentioned, I, is the malleability of the, of the behavior. Like, am I, can I immediately change it by just changing a few parameters? Um, and if so, great, that's how I'm going to, I'm going to assess this as this is probably just a temporary, you had an opinion. Um, and if I, I really can't shift it, if you aren't really responding very well to just kind of immediate or casual changes, um, that's kind of an indicator I think people can, can put in their, put in their heads. Because if I, if I remove some pressure or change the environment and I don't get kind of an immediate change of opinion and you've kept your opinion, I might start to think, huh, you actually are afraid here. You weren't just startled by that, or you didn't just have a strong opinion, but without much emotion behind it, you are, you are showing the same behavior and I can't really change your mind about it casually and quickly. Uh, that, that would start to give me some pause. So, um, the, the assessing, like, you don't have to just read your dog about it. You can say, I've tried to change it and I'm not getting what I expect as a, as a trainer. So that's one thing to kind of anchor, anchor yourself if you're not sure. I like that addition. So one of the things that's kind of come up a couple of times as we've been talking about this is the idea of like novelty, right? And the interest in novelty, but also like new things can be scary. Um, so how do you, how do you kind of judge how much newness to introduce to your particular dog at this age, right? Do you continue to kind of expose them to new places and new things? Do you shrink their world a little bit and kind of take them places they've been before and have them re-see things that they've seen before? Um, anything you avoid, anything you do more of, um, why Julie? This is one of my absolute favorite areas of training. And what I always advise my students in this adolescent phase is that you want to, you want as much novelty as they can carry, but you don't want difficulty. You want variety instead of difficulty.

So, um, everybody, not just, not just people with adolescents, but we all have this tendency when we're training, um, to make things harder and harder and they can do this. So now let's do this and let's do this and let's increase the distraction level. And that is not a good training strategy for an adolescent brain. You just doomed to, you know, meet a point of defeat that's going to cause either a fear response or a full blown confusion, um, over arousal response. So I think that that's what you want to avoid. You ask anything that you would avoid, let's avoid the fear response. And within the parameter of nothing is scary. Um, I would also say nothing is too difficult, too challenging. Then I want as much novelty as possible, but particularly we can't do everything. So we particularly want to expose the dogs to things that they're going to meet, um, in our lives together. So in the way that I intend to live my life with that dog, the kind of sports we want to do, for example, the kind of traveling we want to do it's time in adolescence to introduce at a very low key level, um, and non overstimulating level. You want to start introducing those aspects of potential life. So I'm always saying, here's just a wild example. I'm always saying to my empowerment students, I want within the dog's own home, you need to change out one familiar non-threatening item and put it out of place in the training space, in the space, whatever it is. So for example, the dog sees you handling the tea kettle every single day. Well, put that down on the carpet, just put it down, put it down and, uh, let the dog investigate that. And, um, people always say, well, he already knows the tea kettle. I use it every day. Okay. That's why we're using that, but we're putting it out of place. So a familiar item out of place in the environment every single day. And what happens is if you can do it once a day, you can do it three times a day. I think it is possible to overdo it. I'm always asked that question. Yes. I think you can make it so that, you know, nothing can be counted on. That's not fair. So, um, maybe up to a few times a day, but if you just do it once a day, just think about that. The dog's an adolescent for about a year. That's 365 novel, non-threatening, fun curiosity responses that are extremely helpful in the going forward into adulthood. So that's what you want is a curiosity response. You do not want a fear or an alarmist response. So I hope that's helpful. Absolutely. And Megan, you were nodding. So go ahead.

Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. All of that. Um, so I'm just going to like continue those thoughts of, yeah, I'm not seeking out brand new experiences. I'm seeking insert and I'm, I might be seeking some new things or new versions of something that's still familiar. So, um, the training group that I work with on Saturdays during the nice weather months, we rotate locations where we meet up and practice in public parks. So they all kind of are, they look the same and I'm bringing the same people and the same dogs, but there's just enough novelty that there, but there's enough context that they're like, Oh yeah, we're good here. My people are here. My friends are here. This is great. Uh, if I'm going to, you know, build more skills or build new skills, I'm going to do that at home. I'm going to do that where they're not having open tabs about things. Um, and then totally what Julie was saying about taking those very familiar, very safe environments and changing one thing about them. So obviously at home, it's easy to do, but I was also doing it on my agility field where it was usually just me and her going. Everything's the same. I would change one thing. Like maybe my coat was on the wing or my coat was on the ground or my coat's hanging from the tree. That's weird. Like, why would you put a coat in a tree? Like, so just changing one thing every time you, you go out to train in your training space or one thing in your house, those are the types of things. And like, as in terms of like how difficult it is, if you're, if the adolescent is acting as if nothing has changed, then I would like, maybe you're not, maybe you are doing something, maybe you're not doing anything. Like that example of changing one thing in the house. The terrier never noticed, nor did he ever care. He doesn't care, but like, Julie, you have border collies. So you know that this is important. I have border collies. I know that this is important. They, they are very aware of things changing in their environment for good and bad. So like raising sprint, she notices everything that changes, even if I don't. So those things are going to be more or less important depending on the dog you have. So I'm not, I'm not looking for an overreaction, right? I don't want that fear response. I don't want the frustration response, but I would like to see them notice it and go, that's fine and move on. That's kind of how I know that I'm in the good spot for any training at any age, but especially important when they're adolescents, because when they're older and you have a training relationship,

that training relationship can usually take the hit if you mess up and they overreact or they get a little frustrated, but when they're in this adolescence phase and they are not totally convinced that you know everything they're right. Remember the term was they think they know everything. So my job is to not, I don't want them to be right about some things that they have ideas about. Right. And so that's my job is making sure that they're developing the worldview that I want them to have. And so it's more important. There is a little bit more pressure to avoid those overreactions because they don't have the history of trusting me to be able to survive that withdrawal. That makes a lot of sense. Erin, thoughts? Yeah. Building on those thoughts, I think we often inherently know that avoiding like a big fearful response to something is a good idea. We don't want that rehearsed and we don't want, we just don't want our dogs to be scared. But in adolescence, I also want to avoid those extremely over the top, excited, over aroused responses too. So like in my wheelhouse is dock diving and my young adolescent dog is like, this is the greatest thing that's ever happened. I am screaming and dragging you to the pool. And I'm like, we are definitely not dock diving today. So a little bit of caution on that end of things as well, because rehearsal is not good there either. And the bigger and stronger and more opinionated they get, the more that becomes part of the picture, the context for those sorts of things. And it's not just sports stuff, right? Like it's adolescent dogs seeing other dogs on the street that suddenly they desperately want to play with. Like I come from a world of very friendly, hearty breeds, labs and the beagle. They, their, their usual overreaction is like towards something with great gusto. And that can be just as much of a problem as the fearful response. So just be aware of those responses too. And when you need to, um, maybe now's a good time to start working on more neutral behaviors, ignoring things that are very exciting. Um, working at a distance from things that are overwhelmingly joyful, that sort of thing. So just, just another perspective on that one. I think it's so useful to consider the fact that different dogs are different, right? And like, we actually need to look at what our breed tendencies are a little bit and what our particular dog's tendencies are a little bit and kind of absorb those into our plan. Um, Amy. Yeah, a hundred percent. I think, uh, Erin, you make a good point that, you know, exposing dogs to

everything as people often think they need to do, um, really introduces a lot of competing reinforcers and makes everything into Disneyland or risks making everything into Disneyland. And it's worth, um, being measured about, you know, your newness quotient and what you're trying to introduce. And, um, I think that, you know, I agree with everyone that familiarity is really the, the piece you want to introduce newness, not that everything is new, but that one thing is new and, or, you know, whatever I want or a few things. Um, and I feel like because I, I work so much in urban environments, I'm really not seeing that I can change, you know, one thing very often, uh, or, you know, or just a handful of things. And so how I've been mentally kind of conceiving of this or approaching it is that I want a lot of familiar things I can do with my dog, a lot of familiar things to interact over, um, that, you know, games that we always do games that are easy games that are low, low pressure, or just ways of reinforcing ways that we interact over, over food and toys. So that, you know, and things that I know they like to do when relaxed, so I can really read what they think the newness quotient is of the things around me, because maybe they're looking at individual things. Maybe they're not, maybe they're taking a lot of things in, right? Um, the buses going by or the people across the park or, or whatever it might be that I can't control. So I want, um, as much familiar there as I can get it. And that's going to be in how I interact or what I brought or what we're going to do. Are we just doing fun, simple, easy things rather than are we having school? I don't want to have school. If I have a lot of new potentially around you from the environment that I couldn't control, um, you know, I want to measure my processing load. I don't want to be the processing load. If you have a lot that you're processing. So it's not going to be me that you're processing. I'm familiar. And in that way, I really encourage people to have some training groups. We, we rush to work alone, or we just tend to work alone. And then, you know, if you had a train to you, right, as Megan mentioned, you've brought now a bunch of people and a bunch of dogs or a bunch of props or a bunch of rituals to a new place, if the new place is a lot to process, well, you, you brought a lot of things that are, that are from home, so to speak. Um, which I think is very supportive. And then, you know, as far as like braid goes, y'all made really good points.

Uh, I can tell you that the whippet never cared visually about putting the, the vacuum cleaner in a different place or hanging a coat anywhere, never, ever noticed, never cared. Um, but training could be impacted, uh, by, by changes or by changes of where we are, right. She never looked like there was a single reaction in her placid self, but interaction would show, uh, you know, I can't do this here today. I don't know why, or I'd rather, I'd rather just lay here quietly. It's like, that's a change in you. Right. But the terrier visually absolutely noticed everything and totally cared, uh, that that was new and wanted to clock that and process it and check everything out. But training quote unquote, wasn't impacted. Right. So she do all the things we could do. Absolutely. Take all the foods that I wanted to give her. I could, I could just make it so that she didn't look like she was impacted by the environment. But if I didn't do the training, I could absolutely see that she was. So, so it, it really kind of does matter who you have. If they're, if they're processing is going to show immediately in their behavior, that's a piece that you can seek out. You can look for that. Don't obliterate that with training, but if processing isn't going to show in their bodies, maybe assess it through training, throw training at them. So you can see that their responses are different. Um, a very non-reactive sort of dog needs you to look for it. And then the quote unquote reactive responsive sort of dog is going to show you as long as you don't obliterate it. So, um, kind of assess the sort of verb you have in your dog. Are they, are they that kind of dog? Or are they the, you know, in the, in the, no, no, everything's fine type, in which case you might have to inquire, you know, how are you doing actually with where you are? So always have good assessment possibilities. Yeah. I like that. Um, all right. So I've got one last question here and then we can give everybody kind of a chance to just kind of wrap up their thoughts. Um, this one's kind of, because I personally find it really interesting. So if I would love to have you each kind of just think back to your most recent adolescent and what a day in the life kind of looked like for them, what was typical. I think people often really worry that they're doing too much or that they're doing not enough, or they just have, you know, all those anxieties around life with their next potential sport dog. And I just kind of want to hear how you each approach it, Megan.

Yeah, I would say that her, like, obviously the routine and everything didn't change much because I live and die by my routines and therefore so do my dogs. Um, but I think probably like in the balance of life skills versus sports skills, the scales kind of tipped in the direction of life skills during the adolescent period, I was just cataloging some training videos from last year. And there's like in the agility side of things, there's a big gap right around like 10 or 11 months. There's not very many. Um, but in the life, like there's a ton, like, so obviously the balance was a little bit more towards like, how are you in this environment? How are you in that environment? And, and things like that. So maybe she got trained a little bit more because the sessions had to be shorter. They were more sporadic. Oh, we're going to run errands. That parking lot looks ideal. Let's go do, let's go see if you can chew a chewy there, you know, little things like that. So something very easy, something very familiar. Um, but mostly everything was the same. I was just adjusting more frequently maybe because everything is changing so quickly when they're in this period. Erin. Yeah, very similar. So a big, um, emphasis on life skills during adolescence here too. Um, it does vary a little bit from puppy to puppy. So like oftentimes when I get to be in that eight to 10 months age, um, with the lab puppies, Kenji is my youngest lab puppy. And I'm like, what are you going to do with your life? We can start to think about, um, what sort of sports you might be interested in and sort of starting to train those things a little bit more. But at the same time, the things that hold him back from being able to go into more serious sports training aren't the sport skill stuff. It's the, oh my goodness, can you even keep your brain on around other dogs? Are you going to be able to, um, work when there's people nearby? So all of our training sessions right now are like about the elements of sports that are going to be more difficult for him. But they're also, those are also just like life skills, like walking down the street is the same level of difficulty as trying to do something in a, in a group class for him. So what I'm really working on with, with him is, um, finding that sweet spot between distraction and challenging environments and making sure that he's at an, at a place where he can cope for training. Um, and little Leroy, the beagle, he, so he, his adolescence has been a little bit different. So he notices new things in the environment. And he yells about them. So that's embarrassing.

But it's also been a very good training experience for me with a new breed and finding out that when, um, kind of Amy was talking about the dogs who will let you know versus the ones who won't, he'll tell you exactly what is going on in his little brain at that time. So I have to work pretty hard with him to still be cool. And, um, his sports skills, actually, if we're training in a, in a familiar environment, he's progressing really fast. He learns things so fast. He's a little genius. And I start my, my hopes start to rise and I'm like, all right, we're waking, we're making ground here. And then when we start to introduce a little bit of a new environment, oh, there's the beagle yelling again. So basically it's all coming back to how, how, what they already know can translate to new environments and, um, making sure that all of the stuff that would happen outside of the ring is going to be okay. Because that's, that's sort of the barometer that even lets you think about getting into the ring, if that makes sense. So yeah, uh, a disproportionate amount of training going towards the less sexy behaviors at this time, for sure. Amy, I think that what I'm looking for, uh, day of the lifestyle is, is, is interestingly contrasted with, with what Megan said, um, in that I'm not a routine kind of person. And I'm looking for kind of specifically, kind of proactively, I'm changing routines a lot. Um, changing how the day is going, changing what your day is going to be like dog. And partly cause that's how it's going to be. And partly because I want to know, I want to find the things you're telling me you can't do. You can't be flexible on. If I change this and you go, no, it, it should be this way. I'm like, oh, thank you for revealing to me that opinion, because I need, I actually need you to be flexible on that. And I'm seeing that, that, you know, that's not what you're, what you're coming to me with. And so it highlights for me stuff. I, I want to work on. I don't want to get boxed in. I'm not saying anyone said they do. I just mean, I don't want to, to find out later that, that I've been a little consistent with something such that now I don't have the flexibility in it that I, that I want. So I, I build in, um, flexibility and, and changes to see how my dog is doing with, with that and to look for strong opinions in case I didn't know they were there. Um, uh, and, and often what I get, what I get trapped in, forget to do as a trainer is I forget to have my dogs put away, um, while I'm home. Uh, I put them away while I know

I'm going somewhere and they're fine. And, you know, I find out later in life, I had a couple of dogs back later in life that if I just had to put her away and she wasn't going to be involved in stuff in the house because she had manners and it was fine and never had to, she's like, wait a minute, you don't, you don't put me away and then not go anywhere. Right. So like, well, I didn't realize I hadn't asked out of her. Right. So I'm always looking for what, what can't I do? What do you not want me to do? Uh, schedule wise. And then as far as a routine or, you know, or sorry, as far as, um, what is their day kind of looking like? I, I tend to try to say, can I take you somewhere new today? Cause you're an adolescent, you're not a puppy, right? This is a, you know, a year old or a nine month old dog. Um, can I take you somewhere new today? And, and that's usually something on my general route. So you're coming with me for my day in general, probably, and, or at least part of it. And so is there somewhere new you kind of haven't seen? That's just a little different. I'll take you to that place, a parking lot near something I'm going to or whatever. Um, and then I'll also try to do on that day, somewhere that you've been somewhere easy and familiar so that you can have safe exploration time where you're not processing a lot of newness, maybe it's new smells, but you've been there before. So, uh, I want that for their own mental health. So, uh, because I have to manufacture that enough in an urban environment, I'm always looking for where have we been before so that you could just go there again, but where haven't we been? So I can see, you know, how you're doing with some, with a slight amount of newness. Um, more often as life goes on, I'm, I just find myself more interested in growing up my dog rather than starting all the things and getting all the skills. And, you know, I want to look for strong opinions so that either I can use them, you know, for, for fun reasons. You really love this. Great. I I'd love to know that you love this. I can work with that. Or I want to look for rigidity, strong opinions and rigidity so I can build in some flexibility if I need it. Um, and then as far as sports goes, you know, I want to, I want a mature animal that's, you know, feeling good in every environment. So I'm thinking about, uh, do I have good reinforcement skills so we can have fun together? That's what I want. And do I have good focus? And I'm not going to train that. So I'm just looking for where are you on how important I am

and how fun I am. Uh, and from, from there we've built adulthood and, and kind of you coast at that point and then you're installing all the skills you kind of want. I, I know that there are skills people put in earlier maybe than I do, but I, I want to focus most on how is your emotional life going? Uh, because then I've put the investment in and I know I can, I can, I can put in skills later, but I know that that's not always the way everybody assembles their dog, but that's kind of how I see it right now. Awesome. Um, Julie, what about you? Well, let's say a day in the life. My days do not look like each other and I have a shifting and often unpredictable schedule. So my dogs are not, uh, ritualized at all. They, uh, by the time they get to adolescence, they do not know what time dinner is. Um, just like everybody else, they start, you know, hopefully looking for it maybe sooner than it happens, but it does not happen at the same time every day. So for me personally, just because of how I live, it's important, uh, that my dogs are like Amy's talking about pretty flexible about how the day might go and what might happen when, so they're not concerned about that. But one thing I have tried to put in early in life. So before adolescence would be an introduction to whatever sport and activity that I want us to do together. And, um, so I need that to carry through at adolescence so that when they meet the high arousal, the over arousal phase of adolescent, that just sort of has big feelings about everything. Uh, my sport will still be relevant to them and still, um, be looked at with a very strong desire to participate. So, um, I would not want my adolescent to be, um, thinking of charging off doing something else because a car pulls up when we're in the middle of a training session on the field that would say to me, Oh, I'm no longer relevant. My sport is no longer relevant. The dog would much rather chase a car, for example, or, you know, see who's coming up the driveway. So that's really, really important to me. Um, and what I'm going to try to do is maintain my relevance and also build in to the training. Like I think it was Megan who talked about your balance shifts a little bit from sports skills to life skills. And I do think that's important, but I, I think they're not mutually exclusive. Of course, I'm sure we all know that, but there are many, many life skills that help you so much with sports skills. So for example, I start building in one thing specifically start button behaviors. So, which are polite and cooperative and which are away from my adolescent to communicate

that they would like to have access to whatever activity it is that, you know, we're going to do together. So it might be going for a hike outside, but it might be, you know, agility training or something like that. So I want to build in start button behaviors, meaning a freely offered way for the dog to communicate to me with their body language through a behavior that they would like to do the thing. So that helps me a great deal when adolescence hits and the dog becomes over aroused about, you know, a sudden unexpected stimulus in the environment. I still, I may not have a dog who's biddable in doing that sport, but I have a dog for whom the sport is still relevant. The focus narrows the dogs like I need to do this right now. And he can communicate that to me. And then I have a chance of competing with the environment with my over aroused adolescent. So I hope that's useful. Absolutely. So I want to just give everybody kind of a chance to kind of run out their thoughts or share any final thoughts you may have or key points you kind of want to leave listeners with before we kind of call it for today. So Erin, any final thoughts, anything you want to leave folks with? Sure. Yeah. So expect some challenges in adolescence, but maybe train yourself to look at them a little bit more optimistically than what we normally think about for adolescence. So it's a, it's another fun period where you get to, um, re-meet your dog there. Your puppy is growing up in a new wave, developing new interests. You get to challenge yourself a little bit with finding new ways to still be the, the cool dog trainer that they appreciated so much in puppyhood. And generally everything all works out well. So don't like surround yourself by help when you need it, but, um, don't get too alarmed when you see challenging behaviors. It's, um, it's all part of the growing up process. And if you think back to when you were a human teenager, you probably think about things you went through that seemed very, um, big at the time. And now we're just a little hilarious blip in your memory. And we can imagine that our dogs have those, those same settings when they go through adolescence too. I like that. Amy? I would say, um, first of all, don't panic, never panic. Everything's fine. Um, uh, you know, adolescence is my favorite time. It, it really is. I mean, puppies are cute, but puppies are also, you know, a lot of logistical work and adolescence is where you're really, you know, growing your dog into who they're going to be. And it's my favorite. And I,

I know this is early, early adolescence, but I sort of secretly wish dogs would freeze at like the five, five to six month mark. I just love them then. Um, I really do. And so, you know, look for what's still, um, you know, what's amazing at a time, if you're feeling challenged and you feel like it's, it's trying, uh, focus on the optimism that your dog is really bringing to life. Even if they're also bringing a lot of, you know, varied opinions, they're, they're still, they still think everything is amazing and that's inspiring. It's really fun to raise a dog who's, who's in that stage. Um, and along the don't panic route, uh, it's temporary. Just tell yourself these things are temporary. These things are just, are today. And I can change what today is a little bit and I can see who, who I have tomorrow. And, and remember that adult, but they get adult bodies very, very fast, but they don't get adult brains very, very fast at all. So even though your dog looks like an adult, your dog is a, is a baby in there and keep your sense of humor intact and your sense of inspiration intact and, um, and look for what's really, really good about adolescence because soon adulthood will kick in and, and you'll just kind of be on a steady course. And that's, um, that's a, that's a different, that's a different time. So love your adolescent dog. Cause it's, uh, for me, it's the best, it's the best part of them. Julie. Yeah, for sure. What they said, um, adolescent brain takes a long time to develop. It's somewhere around two years old, but who knows when it is exactly for any individual. And in the meantime, the beauty of the adolescent brain is that it defaults to neuroplasticity. It's good at creating new neural pathways and the circuitry is not so deeply grooved, you know, that you've got an unsolvable problem already, highly unlikely that you have an unsolvable problem already simply because the adolescent really is more plastic in the head, more, more, um, open to suggestions, so to speak in the neural circuitry. So it's, it's not a time to be, um, worried that, oh no, it's, he's already set in his ways. That is really doubtful during the period of adolescence. Uh, the circuitry is just not that deeply grooved yet. So, um, you really don't have to panic. It's true. You can model the behavior that you wish your dog to show, which means the best thing you could possibly do in the face of your adolescent showing you something you don't like is to be calm and to be patient and to treat it like it's no big deal. And, um, remember that distance away from a

thing is often your very best friend. There's often no other way to calm the adolescent brain down. Um, it's very difficult for them. It's easier for them to change valence. It is, would be easier to get your dog to tug when he's screaming at somebody. Uh, but the very best thing to do is just increase the distance, get further away. Just use that routinely. Whenever you see your dog over his head, your adolescent, uh, sometimes unpredictably sometimes, and don't blame yourself. There's no point in that because we all get it wrong sometimes. So, um, doing things from a distance, you know, find that parking lot, that grocery store parking lot and park far enough away that your adolescent can watch things without having to interact with them directly. The dog needs to process what things look like, smell like, sound like, um, and that is all more important than interacting with those things directly. I think that's my advice for the parent of an adolescent. All right, Megan, want to round this out? I do. So it is, I think the worst thing that they look like adults so quickly because, so I have to just reiterate, they are still puppies. Their brains are not developed. And so when their bodies look like adults, we start asking them to do adult things and they are not adults. They don't have the adult abilities, but also if you're struggling with something and you think you're the only person struggling with that thing, you're wrong. There is someone else also struggling with that same thing. So I, I think sometimes when we, when we have problems, I also experienced this with Sprint. When I was going through a thing, I did first assume that I was the only one from that litter. Everyone else is doing fine. Their puppies are perfect. They're not having any problems with adolescents. And that is just so not helpful. Like that is as useless as panicking, right? So I wasn't panicking. I was just certain that I was the only one struggling and that was, it just is me. And that is my job to just struggle. And it's fine. That's not true. All of us go through this. Everyone's puppy turns into an adolescent and you have some problems and someone else is sharing the same problem. Um, so I think it's also just, I guess I would like to encourage people to talk about these things that happen and just make that more culturally acceptable to, we're not complaining about our dogs. We're just kind of being open about like what's real and what's actually happening because I think it can be a little bit isolating if you are dealing with a bigger behavior problem

and you think it's only you, or you think that you've done this. Um, so I just, I want to say that it's normal and that we should talk about it more. And so like, can we just keep, I would also just like to keep talking today, but I know you're trying to get this wrapped up. Yeah. You will. Fair enough. In other words, there's a lot more to say and everybody should do much more to say. I wanted to piggyback on everyone's response every single time. I know. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, um, maybe we'll have to do a part two at some point, but thank you all so much for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you so much for having us. Absolutely. And thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week. Don't miss it. If you haven't already subscribed to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to receive souls to souls to receive souls to souls to receive souls to souls to receive souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls to souls