E32: 로레타 뮐러(Loretta Mueller) - "다견 가정 관리하기"

And so what I really liked about this class is I'm going to be helping a lot of people, not just with agility, which is normally what I do, but with just life skills and people enjoying their dogs. And what I found is there are a lot of people that have a lot of issues and are really struggling and they just need a lot of advice and help on where to proceed. And I think with the more dogs you have, the more overwhelming it is. And so for me, the goal is just to break this down into bits and pieces so that people can attack it with education as opposed to just be frustrated with their dogs. So you mentioned you kind of handle training so that the dog will feel like it's part of or know that it's part of a multi-dog household. So how do you handle training multiple dogs and making sure everyone gets what they need and you still manage to fit in training? And I mean, how do you do it all when there's still only 24 hours in a day? Well, to me, I was the first to admit, and people ask me usually at every seminar that I teach, how often do you train your dogs? And normally it's kind of an embarrassment because my dogs do not get long training sessions. Quality is important, not quantity. And people say that over and over again. The nice thing about those of us with multi-dog households is we don't have time to over-train because we're busy training too many dogs. So that is one really big plus about having a lot of dogs is you're never going to over-train anybody. You might under-train someone, but you're never going to over-train anyone. So my dogs do not get long training sessions, five, 10 minutes, usually every day, but I travel a lot. So some days they won't get anything. They do get walks daily as a group. And I think for me, being efficient is a really important part of it because I incorporate training into each of those walks. So for example, recalls out of the group, impulse control when throwing toys for fetching, things like that. So they are still getting some training in a group, even if the days they have that pass, they don't get the individual stuff. But I really, really do try to focus for five to 10 minutes every single day. You know, training the dogs, it's a priority. You have to make sure it's a priority. Being that that's what I do for a living, the tendency is just to be, you know, exhausted at the end of the day. You're training other people's dogs. Those dogs become the focus. But I make sure that I do something every day with each dog if I can, regardless of how old they are. I have a 12-year-old. She's doing nose work.

You know, you just want to make sure that these dogs have a really wonderful life and are happy and still working their brains as much as possible. Another thing that really helps me be super efficient is I work really hard on my dogs being able to stay while other dogs work with me. So my dogs are on mats or they're on beds and they just stay there. Kind of like actually a circus. If you ever go to the circus and you have the lions, you know, on the little stands and they come off, they train, do the tricks, go back on the stands, things like that. Definitely more positive. But my dogs are kind of like that. They just sit on their little mats or their beds and I call them off individually. We train for a little bit. They go back to their bed, call the next dog off. And they all know the rules. They all know that they should stay there and wait quietly and things like that. And that's a big priority for me when I'm bringing these dogs up is I know that's going to be an issue. I assume it's going to be an issue. There's so many people that say I can't train multiple dogs because my other dog screams or my other dog won't stay. And so from the get go, these dogs know nothing but that when they come into my house. And so I'm very, very clear with that. And if you can do that and you can train dogs out very efficiently, things go really smoothly and you can get dogs worked very quickly. For a lot of people, when they get a second dog, they think it'll actually be easier than it was with the first dog because they'll entertain each other. So I wanted to ask if that's true and if so, why or why not? That's a tricky one. I actually say yes and no. So yes, it's nice having another dog because, you know, dogs do well in groups. They're social animals. And so I think having another dog around does fill part of that need for them as an animal, as a creature. Plus, you know, you've already made a lot of mistakes with your first dog and you're like, okay, I've got this. I can correct it. Not a problem. However, if you're looking at from the performance side, which most of the dogs at FDSA are looking to perform some sort of dog sport task, it gets a little trickier. So dogs can become very dog focused. You know, I'll use the term doggy, which means they're so excited about other dogs that they kind of forget the human side of the equation. I mean, let's face it. Dogs are awesome friends for other dogs, right? They speak the same language. There's no questions for the most part. As long as everyone's temperamentally, you know, sound, there's a lot of wonderful communication that goes on between two dogs.

And it's really hard for us to mimic that type of interaction. And so competing with that can be tough as a handler. So you have to be very careful with that and limiting sometimes the actual exposure or maybe I should say keeping the ratio correct. So the dog should spend enough time with me versus the other dog. So it gets a little complicated that way. You know, and the other thing I find is they can get themselves worked up very easily, just bouncing off of each other as far as energy goes. And things can get very out of hand very quickly. And then a lot of times people just don't know what to do. And that's a big issue. So you have to make sure the dogs have alone time with you. It's really, really important. This requires more time. And sometimes it requires separation in the beginning. So for example, if I bring a puppy home, do I just let it run amok and, you know, run around with all my adult dogs in the group? No, I don't. There's definitely separation as far as, you know, just to protect the puppy from doing anything inappropriate. Also protecting the older dogs in the group. You know, some of them don't like being pestered by little puppies. And so it requires that. And I have raised litter mates. As I said in the beginning of the podcast, I have even in Lynn, both eight, both from the same litter. I will never do it again. It was horrible. I'll be honest with you. It was, it was a very difficult situation because being that I had two puppies in two crates, they both have to go to the bathroom, right? And first thing in the morning, you let them out of their kennels. You can't let them out together. Why? They'll play. They won't go to the bathroom. You let one out. It goes to the bathroom at the time to come back in to get the other one. Guess what? The other one's already peed. So you have that whole dynamic that you have to think about. So I always tell people it's wonderful as long as you can manage it. And as long as you understand that in the beginning, it's going to take some extra time on your part to set what you want so that the dogs view you as having a lot more value than the other dog. If that makes sense. So you touched on a little bit in there, kind of making sure that the dogs get time with you and talking about, you know, training for just a couple of minutes with each of the dogs. So is it important for each dog to really get one-on-one time? You know, I guess if it's important, how important, kind of what are your thoughts on that? I think it's really important. We spend a lot of time building value in us as trainers and these dogs learn to depend on us. They learn to trust us.

They want to be with us, whether they just have a natural propensity to due to their breed or their temperament, or we've created it with training and things like that. And I think that, you know, the more dogs you get, the more difficult it is to get that one-on-one time. But I do think that you do have to make time for it. And it doesn't have to be a lot of time. Remember, dogs are social creatures. They like being in groups. So they do get a lot of, I think, enrichment from the other dogs in the house. But they do still want that time with you. And the thing that I find with a lot of my students is most of my students only make time for training, which is great, okay? Because dogs love to train. If we do it right, hopefully, and if we've trained them to have value in the work and we're rewarding heavily and we're not confusing them, which is great. But what I found is even the highest drive dogs, those dogs that, you know, will work forever, if the only interaction you have with them is when you're training them, that's the only time. I've seen a lot of fallback from that. And the reason is, is because no matter how much you enjoy a specific hobby, if the only time you ever see someone, you have to do that hobby. And it happens every day and there's pressures put onto it, right? Expectations of competition or whatever. Eventually, you're going to need a little bit of a balance there. And so what I always tell my students is it doesn't have to be training that one-on-one time. It can be just relaxing on the couch. It could be taking a nap with you. It can be just whatever, be with your dog. And I think that's something that a lot of people, especially those that really, really love to train, they lose sight of that sometimes. And I myself have done it as well. And so it's just these dogs are so much fun to train and you're having a great time. But then you also need to realize that every once in a while, I'm going to throw in some of that actual just, I don't mean to sound kind of weird, but just kind of the act of being with your dog, being in the same space, touch, things like that. And so I do think it's very, very important. You know, training counts, but it isn't the be all to end all with the one-on-one time. So you kind of mentioned in there people who really like to train. And I think a lot of sports people especially have kind of a type when it comes to dogs. You know, some like the really pushy, demanding dogs. Others prefer thinkers. You know, once the household kind of goes beyond one dog, how much should people be weighing

what they like in a training partner kind of against the other personalities they already have with their current dogs? That's a really good question. I see that a lot. As someone who appreciates both the pushy, demanding dogs and the thinkers, it's not something that I really think about, I guess, as far as my own dogs, because I will assess a puppy and say, is this puppy a thinker? Is this puppy not? However, I'm always in the back of my mind thinking in terms of, again, multi-dog household. So I could say, oh, well, this is the type I want. But in reality, if I look at my subconscious, it's back there. It's always there. It's always thinking in terms of that. So yes, absolutely, positively, people need to always take into consideration what dogs they have when adding another dog. It's very, very important to do that because what you're looking for is just a nice, peaceful group. You're not looking for turmoil. You're not looking for chaos. And if you start from the foundation of just, is this dog temperamentally sound? Is this dog super type A? Is it going to mesh with the other dogs? If you start with that foundation set, everything becomes a lot easier, obviously. A house full of pushy, demanding dogs with type A personalities, my goodness, it's going to be tough. And it's going to require a lot more training and possibly more management just because it's like putting a bunch of high-powered CEOs in a really small apartment and giving them limited resources and expecting them to passively work it out. It's probably not going to happen because they have that intense drive, that intense need to be first and top. And when you add that many dogs in a situation like that, you're going to have problems. It's just, it's part of it. Do I have several dogs in my group like that? Of course I do. But again, when you bring them in, you teach them from the get-go that there is part of the group that you have to take turns. And there has, in a way, kind of situations with sharing and you have to only deal with your own resources and not worry about anybody else's and things like that. So yes, it's extremely important to look at all the personalities you have as a whole. I have a good example would be my first border collie, Zip, who's no longer with me. She was a very type A dominant dog, extremely. She just wanted to do all the things and rules were silly. And that was just her personality. And so the next dog I got after her, which I knew was going to be having to live with that, we always joke that Zip, if she was a human, she would have very few friends.

Because she just was like, all the things are mine and this is mine and everything's mine and mine, mine, mine, mine, mine. That was just her mentality. And so the dog I got after her, who's Klink, my 12-year-old, she doesn't care about much of anything. She's like super chill. So in the house, she doesn't do much of anything. She doesn't necessarily care about playing with toys when we're working. She's on and she wants to go. But as a puppy, she was just that chill type of dog. And so that was of interest to me because I had the exact opposite. And it worked out really, really well because those two got along great. Zip cared about all the things. Klink cared about none of the things. Both of them were really, really wonderful working dogs. But it was just a really good choice on my part to get something that was not quite as intense all the time. And I think that that's kind of how I approach things is I look at, normally what I'll look at as my most, I guess, difficult dog in the group, the one that's, you know, wouldn't have friends type of thing. And if I have one of those, I'm going to base a lot of my choices as young dogs or a puppy off of that type of situation. So which dog is going to get along with the one that's the most, I guess, apt to cause mayhem. So yeah, it's really important. And a lot of times, you know, you always want to pick your own puppy, right? You always want to be the one to pick the puppy. But if you look at, if you're getting a puppy from a breeder or you're getting puppy from a rescue group that has seen the litter grow up and things like that, I really do defer a lot to those people because they've watched these dogs grow up. If you're looking at getting a rescue dog, you know, do several meetings if you can. Obviously do it appropriately where both dogs have space and stuff like that. There are going to be situations where dogs may or may not get along. And that's one of the nice things about the multi-dog class is that I show you how to assess that and do we need to go into a management situation or can a lot of training be worked on to make things a lot more, I guess, easy on both dogs that are possibly having some conflict. Conflict is normal. There's going to be conflict in a group of dogs. And people, I think, have a tendency to get in a very utopic thought process about it and say, oh my gosh, you're going to get along amazing. Everything's going to be great and there's never going to be any discussions about things. And in reality, that's not, that's just not the case. If anyone's read the sample lecture on the FENSI site for my class, it says that, that

there's going to be some, you know, occasional lip, you know, raises. There's going to be an occasional grumble. There's going to be things like that. And that's, that's a normal thing. It's no different than me saying, you know, hey, Melissa, don't touch my breakfast. It's mine. Right. And, you know, and so I would be considered a resource guard because I really love food a lot. And so I would be more apt to be like, you know, the fork on the table type of thing. Whereas then you can teach the dog, you know, hey, you can't actually get quite that much, but you can protect your space as far as food bowls and things like that. But you do it by using games and by using positive rewards and things like that. Because, you know, in negative, negative situations, what happens is that builds an emotional connection to the situation. So if a negative thing happens every time the dogs are fed, for example, if you, you know, yell at the dog, things like that, it creates that negative emotion. And then you're actually, in many cases, making it worse. So my goal is to make these dogs feel safe, comfortable, happy when they're having to share their space or resources with other dogs. And it just is so much simpler. It really is. So. So we talked a whole bunch kind of about the importance of personalities. Are there other things that people should take into consideration when they're looking at adding another dog? Yeah, actually, the age of the other dogs. So I see this a lot. Do you have an older dog? You know, do you, does that dog need to have the last part of its golden years being bothered by a puppy? That's something that a lot of people don't always think about when they're looking at getting a puppy or another dog. Time constraints for you and your family. So do you guys have time for another dog? And a big one, does everyone want the dog? You know, because if you've got members of the household and some of them want the dog, some of them don't, that can cause a lot of issues. Some may train the dog, some may not. Space. Do you really have enough space for the number of dogs that you're looking at getting and the size of dogs and the drive of dogs? So a lot of times, for example, dogs with more of that, as I'll say in some of my lectures, introverted personality. Do you have space for these dogs to go away from the main pack? Or are they going to be all in a very, very small contained area? And that's something for a dog that needs to go away and get away from the group. That's something that you have to think in terms of.

Is if I can't give that dog a basic need that they have to have, is that going to cause turmoil? And yeah, it is for sure. And so you need to think in terms of, do you have enough space to allow dogs to do what they would naturally do to get away from other dogs in their group? What if they don't get along? So normally with an older dog or a rescue dog, they're a little bit older and you kind of have an idea of what their temperament is. But if you're getting puppies, anyone who's raised a puppy knows that they go through all sorts of changes in temperament. And what if this puppy grows up and the two don't like each other? Do you have the ability to separate and manage? Do you want to manage? Is that something that you're willing to do? Some people don't want to do it. And so it's just, it's an understanding of exactly, you know, what these dogs need over what you need. You know, I think that if you want another dog, getting a dog that isn't necessarily your type, as we talked about before, can actually be a really good thing. I've had several and they've made me a better trainer and given me a much greater understanding of dogs as a whole. So when people always ask me, do you want to do her, you know, the pushy demander, or do you want a thinking dog? Which one's your favorite? I've got both and I adjust to both. So it's not a big deal for me. So a lot of times if you have a role demanding dog, maybe getting a lower key dog would be a better bet. So you still get the addition of another dog, but you get a dog that's going to create less turmoil and less mayhem in the long run. So that's what I usually tell people. So if I was to restrict you to kind of one core piece of advice for people as they kind of make the move or when they make the move to becoming a multi-dog household, going from that first dog to adding a second one, what piece of advice would that be? Two dogs is a change. So for most people, adding another dog is managed and it's easy for the most part with a bit of training. As you add that third dog in, something changes. You're dealing with a whole different set of dynamics and things can get out of hand much quicker. It's best to start training as soon as your new dog or puppy comes home and by themselves. Then add each dog in if things progress in a positive way and never be upset or refuse to back up a step or two. That's one of the things that I try to tell people when they see my six dogs all loose leash walking on a flat buckle collar at a local park is this didn't happen in a week, right? This was systematically clink learned how to walk on leash.

Then gator learned how to walk on leash. Then the two are combined. And then you slowly add dogs in. And so it's not something that you're like, okay, well, everybody knows how to stay now. So we're all going to do group stays. Group stays are not part of it. They don't generalize. So staying on a mat in the living room is not the same as staying on a mat in the living room with five other dogs there. And so people have to definitely understand that is that you have to always tell yourself that I've got to get the behaviors down with one dog first. And each dog individually. And then you add the other dogs in. And then that will get you that group control, that group that's going to listen and behave because they know what's expected of them when there are multiple dogs around. So that's the one piece of advice. I think many people have a tendency. They want to just jump over that. And that's where people get themselves in trouble. So talking about trouble, what are some of the kind of the common challenges that crop up when you have several dogs, especially several sports dogs, presumably all with drive and active interest in training? What happens? Oh, my goodness. Demanding pushy behavior for all of the resources, right? Any and all resources. So you, who, toys, couches, spaces in the house. These dogs have been bred and trained to want to work for all the things. And so then all of a sudden they're like, well, that's mine and that's mine and that's mine. And they're very adamant and they're very intense about it. So that's a big one, big, big, big one. You know, big personalities can have big discussions about things. And most of the time those discussions are all, you know, mouth. But you have to understand that that could occasionally happen. And we're going to go over how to deal with that in the multi-dog class, how to effectively deal with it. We teach them to love the game. We teach them to love being with us. And so what we actually create by doing that, if we're not careful, is we create dogs that absolutely positively do not want to share their training time with other dogs. They only want us. So when we get another dog, it's very difficult for them to understand, well, why is this dog now at the lesson? Why is this dog getting my five minutes? And we created it. We did it ourselves. And so then we get upset because these dogs who we've told to love the game and love us and love all the things that we reward them with, they're barking their heads off and we get frustrated. So it's a balance that we have to create with our training that gives us a high drive dog

on command for drive, ideally, that can patiently wait their turn. And I've had questions before the class started was, do you do alpha deferment? So that's something that did come up. And what that means is, do I let the alpha dog in the group determine, like, for example, would I feed the alpha dog first? Would I train the alpha dog first? Would I, you know, anything first? And my answer is no, I train everything very randomly. So none of my dogs know when they're going to get picked to get trained. They just know they're on their mat. And as long as they stay, you know, they'll get to get to work. So it's just a matter of them understanding all the dogs as a whole that they have to share that time. And that you have that balance between, you know, intense love of the game and also the understanding that there must be some semblance of impulse control in order to get to play the game. And they have to share that with the other dogs in the group. So that's a big thing that I find that comes up with people. And that's the most common thing I've heard from people that were interested in the class and just people in general that I teach at seminars was that they just don't know how to get their other dogs to be quiet or to sit still while they're training the other dog. And that's a big challenge. And it requires a lot of effort, requires a lot of training. But again, as soon as the dog comes into the household, if you start it immediately, it becomes the only thing they've ever known. And so they're like, yeah, well, we always share time. That's what we do. As opposed to a lot of people, they're going to be starting from behind the ball, right? The dog's already been for two years going, no, this is all mine, mine. All the things are mine. You're mine. Get that other dog out of here. Then it requires a little bit more energy on your part. But once the dog's figured out, they actually really do roll with it pretty easily because it makes sense to them as opposed to the chaos of, oh my gosh, this is horrible. I can't believe she's training another dog. So it does kind of, you know what I mean? They just get really upset. I mean, some of these dogs get extremely upset and emotionally just they become a mess because they don't know what to do. And if you show them what to do when presented with that problem, all of a sudden they go, oh, okay, I can do this. All right, I can do this. This is good. And so then they have a plan. And that's really what the goal with this class is, just provide people with a plan so that they can start with a group of dogs they have now that may have one or two or ten problems

and then have a plan and a roadmap to work to a calm, peaceful, multi-dog household. I mean, if you went from having one significant other and suddenly started dating around, your significant other would probably have a problem with that too. You think? I mean, you can't really blame a dog that thought you were going steady for getting too upset about that. We are exclusive. We are exclusive. What the heck? Yes, exactly. That is exactly what's going on. Totally. And then we go, I don't understand why you're not getting this. The dog's like, really? Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, whatever. So yeah, that's exactly what's happening. And so again, to me, it's very obvious that these dogs are doing that because of the fact that we've created such a wonderful relationship with them that we have to then show them there is going to be times where you're going to have to share with me a little bit. And again, once they figure out the process, it actually goes pretty easily. So we've talked a lot, I think, about kind of the idea of running a smooth household and management and training. I want to ask a little bit about how you balance the two, both in real life and kind of in the class. I get this a lot. And sadly, I can't give you a definite answer. And the reason I can't is because the dogs kind of decide what needs to happen as far as management versus training. It is all about the dog. So with dogs that are temperamentally sound, with no major issues, and what I mean by no major issues is, you know, no severe resource guarding, no severe reactivity, things like that. So just a normal, you know, normal temperament dog. After they understand the situation with the training and taking turns and learning how they are supposed to behave when another dog is out and things like that, there's usually very little management after training. And I say management, some people have different terms of management. So I'll go into that in a second. But many dogs do have their quirks. I mean, I have a house full of Border Collies. So they're their own little weirdos, you know, to begin with. I love the breed. I love them. But they definitely all have their quirks. Anyone that has a Border Collie will go, yep, yep, yep. So even I have dogs that are a bit on the odd side. And the key, I guess, with that is to identify it early and see if training can fix it. You apply the training. Does it get better? Does it progress positively? Yay. If it does not, are there other options? So I will always defer to training first if I can. You know, so for example, this is a good example of something that I do with my dogs and they only know this.

They know no other way. Training. My dogs are taught that the house is not a place to be in drive unless they're given a trigger word. So for my dogs is the word ready. Which I'm really happy that I just said that. And none of them are getting up off the couch because they're all five of them currently are just sacked out in my living room with me. So if I don't say that word, the assumption to all of my dogs is the house is a calm place. So there's not dogs running around throwing toys. There's not dogs running around playing and going crazy in the house. It's just a place that they should be calm and out of drive unless asked in to drive. And the only place I will actually ask them to go into drive is in my training room, which is in my house, but it's a spare bedroom. So if they go into the training room, that's when they will go into drive because the training room itself is a trigger. So I will say, are you ready to work? Or I can't even say it because they're going to all get excited. So that word means get going and let's get to business. Outside. Outside. When we go outside, as long as they behave themselves and go through doors correctly and, you know, are good with their impulse control. That's where they can be dogs and run around. So they can go on off-leash walks, things like that. And if I do want them to go into a working drive, I would give them the same word, ready. And they would come to me and we would work if needed. And so it's very important because this rule creates a house that doesn't have dogs throwing toys at me all hours of the day and night. There's no craziness. The house to the dogs is just like a crate. So a place to be calm. And it's something I just, I guess, took for granted because I was like, I don't really want six dogs running around and mucking my house. It's just chaotic. But a lot of people don't do that. The house is a place to play and go crazy and get zoomies and all these amazing things happen in the house, which is fine. But always be cognizant of what you're actually working on, right? Because something that might be cute in the beginning, when you add four or five dogs in the mix, it becomes a major, major issue. And that's the situation that I find with people is that they don't think in terms of the future. They think in terms of, oh, these two dogs are having fun in the living room. And so for me, if, for example, I had a dog that was wanting to play with my puppy in the house, I would most likely, if I could, take them outside and let them have fun outside. And then once puppy was tired, bring him back in the house.

So I'm just setting an example for calm, controlled behavior in my home. And then when we go outside, they can be, you know, dogs within reason, do dog things, run around, bark, things like that. So I think it's something that people have to always think in terms of. And a lot of people don't because when you have one dog, it's not that big of a deal. But when you have five dogs, it becomes a major thing. So that's an example of training. So for me, management can come in situations with just daily life. So a good example of management that I do myself is not all of my dogs are loose in the house when I'm gone. It's an earned thing because some of my dogs are great in the house. And then they have some, a couple of them, that are a bit more naughty. And the naughty ones are crated. And it's just, some people would call that, I guess, pure management. I just call that putting dogs that are naughty in crates. And so that's, they can't be naughty when I'm not around. So, you know, that would be fine. This is the standard that I have for my dogs. Do I have a dog or two that doesn't necessarily like the other dog? Yeah, I do. And so do they, do those dogs, are they left out when I'm not around? No, they're crated. You know, and so if you have those kind of personality things, you say, okay, there's a personality issue here between two of my dogs. Therefore, I'm not going to create a situation where they have the ability to have any discussions. I'm going to remove that from the table so that the only time they have the ability to have a discussion is when I'm going to be around and I can distract them from it or whatever if need be. But the dogs, to me, will really determine how much management is required. Many dogs, when I actually work through all the exercises in my class, don't have as much of an issue with space or reactivity or they're greatly lessened just due to understanding. But, you know, however, if you have dogs that are attacking other dogs, you know, you have to understand that there is a time for management. And sometimes it's just managing, like, situations we'll deal with in the multi-dog class, pinch points. So areas of conflict as far as usually that's like space, so hallways, door entryways, things like that. If you acknowledge it and you manage little pieces, then you don't end up having to manage the entire situation all the time and keeping dogs completely separate. So it's identifying those trigger or those pinch points that will tell you, hey, this is an area of conflict. I can do this, this, or this, and that will take care of it and get rid of the conflict.

You get rid of the conflict, you get rid of the emotion, the dogs then relax and things become much better. And so it's about just observation and seeing exactly what's happening with your group. And that's going to be very, very important when you can decide whether you need to train something or it is a true management situation. Now, you kind of mentioned the loose leash walking thing earlier, but I want to kind of circle back around to that. I know one of the most common requests when it comes to having several dogs is definitely loose leash walking because there's definitely nothing crazier than having several dogs all pulling you in different directions when you're outside. Ask me how I know. So I know that, you know, you've shared some pictures on the Facebook group and things of you with your crew, all leashes, nice and loose. Are you covering that in the class? Yes, I am. Definitely. Absolutely. I will be going over it and I'm going to be starting it on week two. I just released lectures for week one. So week two, we're going to already start on some loose leash walking. And again, the key is one dog at a time. When you add more dogs, it's not going to get better. It's going to get worse. And so I think that the people are like, well, you know, they'll probably be okay. Get the leash walking done well with one dog and then work on adding other dogs. And again, like I said before, people have a tendency to rush it. And then you end up with four dogs dragging you down the road. And that's not fun. And you also have dogs that, you know, there might be somewhat okay as a group on leash, but then a squirrel runs across your path and then you are now officially skiing, which we don't want that. We want you to not be ran into trees and not be drug through forests. I actually just got back from a camping trip and I saw that in full force. A woman with four goldens, not a cool situation. So luckily my dogs are only about 35 pounds, but I do work with a lot of people that have dogs much bigger. And the bottom line is it takes patience, but the rewards are amazing. And I think that's the hardest part for most people when they're dealing with loose leash walking is they want to just get it done and then add all, you know, three or four dogs. And it's not how it works. And so again, laying those roadmaps on here's where you start. And then here's how you slowly add in more layers and a layer being distractions and a layer being dog, things like that. And that's one of the things we do in week one of this class actually is self-assessment of each dog.

And I had a couple of the gold say, do you really want me to write out everything for each of the dogs in my house? Yes, I do. I sure do. And the reason is, it's because you can use dogs' personalities to benefit another dog's training. So for example, if you have a really exuberant young dog that's learning loose leash walking and has it and has got it and they're doing really well by themselves, and then you have the option of adding a four-year-old who is kind of high strung, your 12-year-old dog who is not high strung, or an 18-month-old young dog that doesn't know how to loose leash walk. Which one do you add in? You're going to go with the older dog, right? So you can use those personality characteristics to help you, but you have to understand what those characteristics are because we just have a tendency to look at the group as a whole and not these individual dogs. And you can use them so easily. And I do that a lot in my classes where I'll deal with certain dogs that get overstimulated by a specific type of dog. I can use that dog from my group to work them through that. And it's the same thing that you'd be doing when you're dealing with multi-dogs. You can use the dog that best fits the situation that's going to put that positive progress into play. And that's going to be a really, really important thing when you're dealing with loose leash walking. Again, I think people get on the verge of getting it and then they just lose patience. And I know nothing worse for me personally than dealing with a dog dragging me. That's just one of my things. Like it makes a lot of stuff not fun. And so for me, it's something that I really work on. And I think it's kind of fun to see a lot of these goals that are in the class currently are really excited about doing that. So I see some really, really motivated people. They're hopefully going to get some really good leash walking out of their dogs. And then again, once they get it on one dog, keep working on all the rest. And then we add them all in as a group slowly. And the rewards are awesome because you can just walk your dogs and not have to worry about being pulled or drugged. And it's a really awesome thing. I mean, I know it's not nearly as cool as doing weave pulls or, you know, dumbbell retrieves. But the bottom line is you're probably going to spend a lot more time walking your dog on leash than you are, you know, doing other stuff. So that's going to be a really, really important thing. I'm excited about that. Super excited. I think most people taking the class are probably pretty excited about that too. Yeah, they are.

So I wanted to just kind of generally ask you a little more about what you will and won't cover on the class. What are some of the other topics? So I'm going to cover just group mentality, assessing your dogs as far as their temperaments, common areas that cause issues with groups, games to help dogs learn to share and accept other dogs, share and accept resources, understanding what each of the dogs in your group needs to be happy and content because that's a really, really important one. They're just like people. Some of them are extroverts. Some of them are introverts. It really depends on the dog. And just noticing those characteristics and giving them what they need so that they're more comfortable. And a big one is when you should look into a true management scenario. I think that's a hard one for a lot of people. I find a lot of people go into management before they've actually looked into training first. And I think that a lot of stuff can be accomplished with training. Again, as long as you're dealing with a dog that's just maybe over threshold or things like that. Things I'm not going to cover. I'm not going to cover severe aggression issues between pack members, severe resource guarding issues. So dogs that are lunging while being fed, things that should be left to a certified behaviorist. To me, those things can't really be worked through via a lot of video because you're going to be still missing out on something or just discussion. I think that in those cases with severe issues, you need one-on-one in-person time with a professional in that specific field. And so I think it's just really important that people understand that this is to fix tendencies or slight issues that don't involve severe amounts of aggression or severe resource guarding. Or also just, you know, if you're bringing in a new puppy in the pack and you want to know how to raise this puppy in a way that it's only going to know that it's how it lives. It's in a group. Then the class is for you. But like I said, in severe issue cases with aggression or resource guarding, I'm going to leave that to someone that is, you know, a professional in the field. And that's where I would send people to go. Kind of my last question here. Is there just generally, I guess, anything you'd add and either about the class or in general or maybe something you've learned over time or that hasn't worked? Just kind of anything you'd add to anything we talked about? Yeah, you know, I think having a house full of dogs can be really a fun experience. I love my group. I wouldn't trade them for the world, I'll be honest with you.

One of the things I've learned over time, and I think we've all kind of done it probably out of frustration more than anything, is yelling or screaming or, you know, getting upset when the dogs are being, you know, silly in a group. It doesn't work. It just doesn't work. I mean, it might make us feel a little bit better at the time that we're trying to, you know, maybe fix something. But the bottom line really doesn't work. It's the goal that you have to think in terms of, and this has taken me, you know, I've been dealing with multi-dogs for many years now, is this thing in terms of divide and conquer. So if your group is unmanageable, you need to work each dog on their own, get them the skills, and then, like I said, slowly add in dogs as things progress in a positive direction. If you bring dogs in, just assume it's going to be a multi-dog household, and all your training should be around that. If you only ever want one dog, it's a little different. But I think, to me, you know, every dog that comes in is going to understand that they will be in a group situation, and they will have to have these specific skills and games that they have learned that will help them deal with that type of life. Because it's different. I mean, it's very different, especially going from one dog to multiple dogs. The dogs have to be accepting of personal space, possibly being invaded, things like that. And you have to work with them to develop that understanding and the tolerance to accept, you know, dogs in their space and things like that. And then, on the flip side, you also, as the trainer, have to understand how to make things less evasive and how to give dogs outs and options and things like that. And I think that something I've learned a lot just through the years is that incompatible behaviors. So, if you have a behavior you don't like, go to the exact opposite and teach that. So, it's really hard, for example, a dog to run ahead of everyone else. And you'll see this comment in a lot of the herding breeds. They'll nip. So, for example, if you let your dogs in the house, one dog in particular normally will run ahead of everybody because they're busting through the door, of course. And they will wheel around and nip those dogs coming through the hallway or through a door. So, you just think in terms of incompatible behavior. So, if the dog is waiting at the door to be released, is that compatible with running through the door and biting the other dogs? No. They can't do both. And so, you want to think in terms of, I want to find a behavior that they can't do simultaneously.

And then you work on that as a trained behavior and you'll get that situation. So, one of the things that people will get used to throughout the session is, in a group, my dogs are released to commands or to food or through doors by their names. So, in agility, I say, okay, that's a release word. In a group situation, because I would never do agility with my dogs in a group, that just sounds dangerous. It really does. I'm like, I got a little anxiety over that one, actually. But, I would release them with an okay in agility, but in a group. And, for example, if I wanted them to come to the door, if I say, okay, is that fair? Right. Well, it is, technically, if I want them to all bust through the door at once, which is definitely not what I want. Because they'll kill each other. But, again, people are like, okay, and then all five dogs jump up and bust through the door. Well, that's not what I want. So, in the situation of a group thing, I would be saying clink. And clink means you are released to come to the door. If I want to tug with multiple dogs, for example, I would say clink, get it. Or Lynn, get it. So, it gives the dog's name. And then something. And that way, I can be very specific about what I want which dog to do. And that was something I didn't think about. Actually, one of my students was just feeding her dog cookies. You know, just cookies. And one of the dogs was getting a little guardy. And what I realized through that was that I tell my dogs their name before I give them a cookie. If I have five dogs waiting at my feet. And none of them try to get the other dog's cookie. And I do have a couple dogs that are a little resource guardy. But unless they hear their name, they know not to get the cookie. And so, it's just little things like that. That if you're not training with multiple dogs, you don't think about. And then all of a sudden, you add in that second dog. And you're like, oh, wow. Everything has changed now. Because my first dog doesn't want the other dog to get cookies, et cetera, et cetera. So, it's stuff like that that I've just naturally developed through the years of having multiple dogs. And that we will go through. And, you know, you don't have to say your dog's name. You can. One of my students has Uno Dos Trace. One, two, three in Spanish. That's how she, you know, calls her dogs as far as group stuff. So, her dogs are Uno Dos Trace in a group. And then her dogs, you know, when they're individually training, have their names and things like that. And so, you know, my dog's conceptual.

I was going to say, I'm assuming that's because she uses their names to mean something else in training. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And, you know, dogs are very good at figuring out scenarios. They're phenomenal at figuring them out. I mean, my dogs know that if they come out of the house and we turn left, we're going to go into the agility field. But I never work five dogs in agility. So, they don't do agility. If I come out with one dog and I turn left and I go to the agility field, they know they're working. So, it's all about context. So, I teach my dogs that in context, there's group context. And then there's individual context. And they are very, very good at figuring that out. And so, we'll be going through that as well in the class. But that's a big one is teaching them what they should expect in a group. And so, a lot of these people will be working on a lot of that stuff the next six weeks. So, I'm pretty excited about the class. It sounds awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited about it. I'm looking forward to seeing the videos and seeing the starting points. I just released a lecture where it says I need to see the ugly. And so, I'm kind of excited to go look at the forums and see some ugly. And then we can work on some stuff. So, yeah. It's going to be a fun class. For folks listening, we're actually recording this on the first day of class on October 1st. So, they won't hear this for a week or two. But for you, it's today's very first day of class. Yes, it is. Well, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast, Loretta. This is great. Yeah. You're welcome. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll actually be back next week with our first non-FDSA interview. We'll be back with Laura Van Arendonk-Bah. Pronounce that right. I'm pretty sure. And she's the author of Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out, Training Crazy Dogs from Over the Top to Under Control, and Social, Civil, and Savvy. Training and Socializing Puppies to Become the Best Possible Dogs. Don't miss it. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Transcription written by CLK Transcription Services. Thanks again for tuning in, and happy training. Music. Music. Music. Music. Music. Music. Music. Music. Music.

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