E178: 우리는 모두 여정에 있다 - FDSA 훈련 어시스턴트 인터뷰

I've been TA since the program started. I was actually one of the first TAs. Alex Woodruff and I TAed a class together for Stacey. So all the nose work is all the TA work that I've done. I've done at least 13 sessions, probably more because we've looped around and repeated sessions. My current dogs are Axel, who is a soon-to-be four-year-old Rottweiler. And my little Nottweiler, who is Chupy, who is about 16. We lost Zoe in February. So now we just have the boys. My original sport, very early on, was obedience. And then transitioned into rally with Zoe. We did it all. Agility, parkour, barn hunt, tricks, nose work, of course. Obedience, rally. Axel is obedience, rally, nose work, agility. And Chupy, I just started him on nose work when Stacey changed the curriculum for her intro to nose work class. I thought, what a great opportunity for me to do some hands-on work with a dog that's completely new to nose work. And so Chupy gets to do all the searches that Axel does now. So that keeps me pretty busy. Nose work is his primary sport and mine. But we are doing some of the other stuff. Awesome. Linda? Yes. I'm Chinese. I came to America about eight years ago for graduate school. And after I graduate, I'm working in the intellectual property field. I'm also a CPDTK certified dog trainer. So I'm mainly working with reactive, fearful, and aggressive dogs, mostly on the behavior part. I have two dogs. First is super mutt. Because I didn't do it. He has at least eight brains in him. So super mutt. You go. So he is the dog. He's reactive. So I got him four years ago when I was working on my dissertation. And then so soon it turned out he's really reactive to almost everything. Very anxious dog. So I focus a lot on him, working on behavior with him. I also have a younger dog, two-year-old, failed lab, Sonny. So with both dogs, I think mostly we just focus on nose work and also some tricks. So Nico got NW2 last year. And he's also an expert trick dog. Sonny is working on his advanced trick dog. And then prepared to get into nose work. And then I learned FENZE and started nose work about the same time. So about, I think, almost three years ago. And then it's been taking classes since then. And then this is my first time being TA. Really first time. Only a couple of days. I'm being TA. I'm having Stacy in the NW200 preparing for trial. So I hope to, like, bring my experience to have other teams be more successful. And it's been a great experience for me because it's just a lot to learn. It's really eye-opening. And you're doing a great job, too. Leland and I are co-teaching assistants for that class. It's a new class.

So we're getting a chance to work together. And you would think she's been doing it for a long time. She's really doing a fantastic job. Really. Good. Good. Anne, do you want to go next? Sure. Yeah. I've been a FENZE student for a really long time. I don't know. I'm not sure I remember what year anymore. It's a long, long time ago. And so most everyone here knows Hartley, who's eight years old. I can't believe he's eight years old because when I came here, he was like my young dog. I wanted to teach him how to heal nicely. But, you know, really heal. And so, you know, came for precision healing with Denise. But now he's eight. And his focus right now is agility. But I also have a one-year-old, another black lab, Dare. He's one. He keeps me very busy because he's got a ton of energy. He's super smart. And if I don't keep him busy, he finds his own things to entertain his mind and body with. So he keeps me really busy. And we're working on all the things with him. So I've been a TA since the program started. I started TAing with team. And then when Nicole started her rally classes, I've been TAing most of her rally classes. And it's been a lot of fun. I really enjoy it. That's awesome. All right. Lizzie? I've got three dogs. Freddy is my oldest. He's 16 now. He was a rescue from where I used to work. He did a bit of agility when he felt like it. But most of the time, he kind of just left the ring. Yogi is five. And he's a Romanian rescue. He prefers heal work and obedience type things. And we do a lot of musical freestyle and he works music. And Rudy, my youngest, is two and a half. He's a flat coat retriever. And he does a bit of everything. He'll work to music, rally, obedience. And we're hoping to do some agility now that he's old enough to jump. Last term was my first term being a TA for Sarah Bruschi and her other sports class, which was my first class, the one that got me hooked. That's awesome. All right. So I want to talk a little bit about how everybody kind of got into dog sports to start with. So if you guys could just each talk a little bit about kind of what got you started. And it's time we'll do it in Flipwater. So Lizzie, do you want to start us on this one? Yes. I grew up watching agility on telly when you're watching crafts. And I was desperate for my own dog. So when I finally convinced my parents to let me have one, it was kind of the first thing I looked into doing. Anne? Well, I got a dog. He was my yellow lab miles. And he, you know, I wanted to do everything right with him. So I went to dog class. I went to puppy class. And then we went to puppy teenager class.

And then we went to normal household obedience class. And after those three classes, I knew I really enjoyed the process of working with him and training. And, but I didn't know. I just wouldn't. I knew I wouldn't know what to do if I didn't have a class to tell me what to do. So I joined a rally class. And, you know, that was, that was the start. It went from there. Just kept sucking you in. Just kept going. I laugh. One of my favorite things is, and I have a student that thinks that driving 30 minutes to go to a lesson or a class or a dog event is really far. And I laugh because I remember thinking that. I'm like, why would you drive any more than, you know, 10 or 15 minutes to do a dog thing or 20 minutes? Like, you wouldn't do that. And, well, we won't talk about the distances. I drive now. It's just, you know. The whole perspective changes the more, the more you go. Anyway. Lin-Lin, what about you? So with Nico, I think after about a year of behavior modification and then still, and the point I get it better, but I'm still desperately looking for something to do with him. You know, before you get a dog, you have all these plans you want to do with your dog, right? And then turn out to be a reactive dog. And then the choice is very limited. But I still want to, after a lot of tears, you know, frustration, your reactive training, just want to do something fun. So we just, that's like some, like pretty random. I came across the network and then pretty soon I found out the fence and then that's how I got started. It wasn't easy. Actually, in the beginning I thought for a long time we'd probably never be able to trial because Nico cannot even leave the neighborhood. He would have panic attack if we just leave the house or neighborhood. But I think I choose the right sports. Doing those work at the same time, having his reactivity and confidence. So actually now he's doing really well. I'm really proud of him. So just never look back. Like Anna said. That's awesome. Yeah, that's fantastic. I'm glad that it's helping him and, you know, pulling you into our world at the same time. Anna? So I got my first dog in 1994. It was a Red Doberman. A beautiful dog with a fantastic temperament. And I was completely clueless. I had absolutely no idea. I had no idea what I was doing. I had no idea what she was doing. But she was such a wonderful dog and a very sweet, loving, and forgiving dog. And despite all my mistakes. And so finally we decided, you know, we need help. The dog's getting big. She's, you know, I can't handle her. So we actually had a private trainer come to the house that was recommended to me.

And this woman was like the Doberman whisperer. I mean, she just had such a presence. She was so calm. She was so able to communicate with the dog. I was in awe. I was just absolutely blown away by how can you do this? Teach me how to do this. How can I do this? And so we just opened up this whole new world. And then we just kept adding dogs. At one point we had seven. You know, and they were all shelter dogs except for my Dobe. And it just kept... I bet when you got that first dog you went to thought anyone having more than three was crazy. Oh my God. You know? And then you add the second one. And then we found the third one. And the fourth and the fifth and the sixth and the seventh all came from the shelter. You know? You know? So there's a house full of dogs. And I got, you know, involved in dog training more and more. And got more and more involved with the local shelter. And it just kind of... It just never stopped. It was just beautiful. It just kept going and going and going. So... But it was that one person that really inspired me to be able to do better. And she really changed my whole world. Made a huge difference. I'll never forget her. It was a long time ago. That's cool. What about you, Sarah? So I saw agility on Cruft. Cruft being the biggest dog show in the world. It's huge. And I wanted to do it. So my parents wouldn't let me have a dog. So I moved out. Got a dog. And then moved back in again. And that was 25 years ago. So, yeah. At that time, you had to go through an obedience class to be able to go on to the agility classes. So I served my time through the various classes that I had to do. And got into the agility. And then, yeah. The rest, as they say, is history. That just led me to everybody that I sort of know and met. And circles grew and so on. Took a slightly different tangent. When I switched breeds in 2008, I decided to get a Springer. And because I wanted to work in what he was bred to do, I got into the gundog side of things. And again, that led me down another path altogether. So it was, yeah, fantastic, really. You do gundogs with Ripley? Yes. Yeah. He had his first lesson. His very first training lesson was at 11 weeks old with a gundog trainer. Because I was absolutely determined I wasn't going to mess things up with him. And so, yeah. I took her guidance from the start. And he wouldn't be as good as he is without her foundations in place. So, yeah. I did the work. But she gave me the support. Yeah. That's awesome. So what about kind of the transition to positive training, right, guys? Like, I'd love to know if you've always kind of been in this quadrant. It's the wrong word.

But, you know, if you've always been a positive trainer, if that's like a journey and you kind of had to get there. And if you had to get there, kind of how did you get there? What was it that got you interested in positive training? Anna, you want to start this time? Sure. Yeah, for me, it was definitely a journey, a progression into a different way of doing things, a better way of doing things. When I first started going to obedience classes, which wasn't even with my dog, but with subsequent dogs, when I started going to obedience classes, it was very not our positive. And it was just that was the only way. That was what you were taught. And it it always seemed to bother me somewhat in that this couldn't possibly be the only way. There has to be another way. And the dog that I was working with at the time in classes was was a rescue Roddy who really had a horrible attitude in the beginning. And she didn't take very well to these types of techniques. And so I started to, you know, look around now you're talking about the late 90s. So it's not like there was that much out there. And of course, there was no Internet. Right. There was no there were no resources. You kind of tried to talk to people and see where they were going. But little by little, it really it really changed the way I started to feel. And then I went to an instructor training course, which was basically five days with a bunch of other trainers and people. And it just really completely changed my mind about how to do things. We could do things so much better. So I'm in a way, I'm really glad the way I got to it, because it really showed me that there are different ways of doing things. And you should, you know, something's not right. You should really take the time to to research and investigate and look into other ways so that you're comfortable with what you're doing. So it was a transition for me, but it was certainly a really eye opening experience. And I'm glad and I'm glad that I got there the way I did, because my dog with a change in her methods, she was my first obedience dog. We got our first CD and she was she was really not an easy dog. And one of the trainers in the classes that I worked with kind of had that same feeling and said, you know, we can do things a little differently. And she made a big difference for me. Um, and someone else I'll never forget, because she took the time to support me and doing things a little differently with my dog. So I'm glad it happened. And I'm glad that most of my journey has been on the positive on the positive side. And most of it has been on the positive side.

I, I didn't even get a dog until late in life, because, um, you know, growing up, you know, and when I was younger, I mean, I just thought that dog ownership was like, you had to go through this. Icky time of training your dog and showing them who's boss before you had a good dog you can enjoy. And I, you know, and I, I don't think I don't remember ever consciously saying to myself, I don't want to go through that part. But I think that was in the background. And I just didn't, I just didn't want to get a dog because I just didn't want to go through that. You know what I mean? I didn't want to, I didn't want to put in the work because it wasn't going to be fun. And, um, my stepdaughter got a dog and it stayed with us for like a month when she first got it. And somewhere along the line, I don't know if I got a book at the store. Um, you know, the internet existed that was like in the late nineties, but it wasn't very good. You had to dial up. Um, and, uh, I, somewhere along the line, I found out that like, I could train a dog and use cookies, you know, teach him things and give him a reward and he'd be happily trying to do them. And I, and then I was, I realized, well, you know, I could probably get a dog and, and, and it could be fun to train them. And so then when I did get that first dog, I w I really just got lucky, you know, the, the plate, you know, the, the mentor and trainer that I, that I came across who guided me in the right direction, because I didn't know, you know, the difference between positive reinforcement training and balance training and all of those other things. And I kind of expected that somewhere along the line, there'd be, you know, some need for some unpleasant thing that would have to happen, but that didn't work out that way. Um, then when I got my second dog, when I got Hartley, I thought, Oh, well, you know, I really want to do well in obedience with him. And, um, you know, I did go meet with some balanced trainers and I, like Anna said, I kind of was like, you know, put a pinch counter on him and, you know, tweak a little bit. And I'm watching my own videos of myself when, you know what, my timing's wrong. I'm correcting things that I wanted to doing and I'm not, you know, I'm just like, no. And I think after just a couple of sessions meeting with this person, I just said, I just didn't feel good about it. It wasn't right. And I just kind of said, you know what, you know, if, you know, I'm just not going to do it this way. That's all, you know, and that was kind of the end of that, you know, um, you know, I

had people tell me, you know, that if I wanted the precision, I was going to have to, you know, use a pinch collar or do this or that. And I just said, you know what, that I, you know, even though I don't believe that, that even though I don't believe that you can't get precision without those tools, um, I just chose to not even have the discussion and say, well, then I'm fine with that. I don't, I don't need the precision. You know, I'd rather just, you know, do it this way and enjoy my dog and do what we do. And so, and that was really the end of that. And, you know, kind of like Anna said, I'm glad I explored all those things so that I could like really think about it and learn about it and go on. And, um, you know, and so this is where I am, you know, um, and then gun dog here, at least in the United States and retrievers, you know, there's a very strong, you know, you can't achieve X without, you know, certain tools that I don't care to use. And, um, you know, again, I'm very comfortable saying, well, then I don't have to achieve that. You know, even though I fully believe I could, if I wanted to, you know, but it's not an argument I can make. So I guess I've been mostly always positive. So it's more fun that way. And that's what I do this for. Yeah. Sarah. Um, so it was 1995. I've got my collie and the obedience class that I attended, it was a bit of a mixture. We had treats, but we're also using check chains. Um, although I think that was literally for the class. I don't really remember using it outside of the class much. And it wasn't, you know, I was just going with what, what I was being told, uh, didn't really know much at the time. Um, and then I can remember sort of must've been late nineties time stood in a car park at an agility show and, um, a fabulous lady by the name of Sally Jones stood there and shaped her toller to nose touch and not in the gate post in the wood gate post, um, using a clicker while telling us all about this, this newfangled clicker training. Um, and, um, I went off and got all the books, uh, you know, the don't shoot the dog and a dog and a dolphin and did all the reading to find it all about. So I like to have all of the information, um, and started, um, playing around with clicker training. Um, I got to go on a workshop with, um, Mary Ray back in those early days. She's a fabulous, he'll work for music competitor. I think she's relatively well known. She used to do demos at craft. Um, and so, yeah, I got to learn from there. So I wasn't a very long time in, in non R plus as it were.

And it wasn't, um, you know, particularly harsh compared to some of the things that I hear about. Fast forward to sort of 2008 and I get a gun dog and decide I want to go down to the gun dog training route. And yeah, there's a bit of, a bit of a difference there because I'm, by that time, know an awful lot about clicker training. I start him out at seven weeks old when I get him clicker training straight away. Um, and then when you start trying to look into gun dog training, you must do it like this, you must do it like this and so on and so forth. Um, but you know, I was an advocate for my dog and I'm very, very good at nodding and smiling. Um, and then, and you know, I work my dog on shoots as well. So, and I'm, you know, surrounded by a very traditional bunch of farmers and, and, you know, ancient, um, guns. And it, you just have to, it's really, really hard as well at some times because you see some of the stuff that they think is acceptable. Um, you know, um, you know, I'm, I'm for conflict avoidance really. Um, but yeah, not in the smile if they try and give you advice, you know what you should do. Yeah. You know what you should do. Um, but, um, so again, through, through Sally, who'd actually introduced me to clicker training. She, she was working by then with, um, a lady who's taken, um, an interest in the guns, gun dog side of things. Um, uh, Leanne Smith, who's fabulous, amazing local trainer. So lucky to have her, um, as a gun dog trainer, but she, she got us, um, introduced to Helen Phillips who wrote the book, click a gun dog. Um, and I think it feels like to me sometimes reading from the post that the, the, the access to positive reinforcement based gun dog trainers is, um, we've got many, many more really accessible trainers over here. Um, and a lot less people sort of, uh, a lot more people just, just going through those routes rather than, um, than choosing the alternatives just because that's what the way it's always done. So I was lucky to sort of get in and, and, um, work that route from the start really. And so Ripley then has been entirely, um, force free. All of his gun dog work has been done on, on the enforcement basis only. Um, and yeah, it does work. And I've got plenty of people I know that, you know, they, they, they got dogs that are achieving amazing things and they would never dream of putting, uh, any collar or prom collar or anything like that on them. And they're working in, you know, high drive environment. Lizzie, what about you? Um, yeah, I was quite lucky when I started out, most of the classes around me were all like positive reinforcement.

Um, my first dog was a bit of a handful. He kind of took the mick a bit, like, um, if we'd let him bleed out in the park, he would refuse to come back and kind of dance around. Um, so a few people told me I was too soft with him and he needed a firmer hand and it was, wasn't so much kind of prom collars and stuff, more like ignoring him. I was told to not feed him for two days and to completely ignore him when I came in and not speak to him for like a week. But I never actually succeeded in doing that. I just, I think I kind of thought about it for a minute and was like, I can't. Um, and then, yeah, I managed to find some other trainers and we never really kind of solved all of his little issues, but we did enough that he could kind of do what I wanted to do with him and kind of learn a lot from training with him. Um, and then I found some, there was a couple of dog activity holidays. So we went on one with Phillip Williams, who taught me quite a lot about clicker training. Um, that was probably my first introduction to using the clicker and kind of went from there and just kind of kept on learning, made most of my mistakes with him. And then I've kind of learned with each dog that's come since then. What about you, Len Len? Um, although I started dog training only, um, pretty, uh, my dog training time is pretty short, only about less than four years, but I also went through a balanced training. Um, I think in reactive dog training, unfortunately the aversive training or balanced training is still very popular because I have to admit, once you put the prong collar on, you put the e-collar on, they suppress the behavior, right? It's, it's to an owner, to an owner, to me back then when I don't know anything, it looks, it's like a magical tool because once the prong collar on, my dog stopped lunging, stopped barking. Um, so I was happy for a little bit until a couple months later, like Nico's reactivity, like it just, um, I feel his anxiety just, uh, cannot hold it anymore. So there were several incidents, luckily it didn't bite anyone, but I feel it was close that no matter how strong stimuli apply, it just wouldn't hold him. I just cannot hold because it just overthrestled too much. Um, and then even like, you know, same going well, I always deep down, I always don't like every time I pop the prong collar, every time I press the button, um, a e-collar, I feel bad. And then like, it just not a good experience for me as well, because like I, I was told I have to be on top. I have to really press the button and watch him all the time. And then at the same time, I, I feel bad for him.

I feel like I put in through that. Um, so, and also I have background in science. I always want to understand how things work, the science behind it. And I never get to understand how, why reactivity happened or how, how to change the behavior. When I was using the balance training tools. Um, so since anxiety really over the roof, I cannot hold anymore. So I, I bought all the books on the market that the positive training on reactive, positive on reactive talk training. And then I, that's the first time I started to understand, uh, what is behavior and why they are doing this and how to change their emotions. And then suddenly everything makes sense. I just throw away all the tools and never, never like use them again. And I would never do that again. Um, so that's, that's my journey. Um, so I chained to positive and just never looked back. Yeah. And then, then you went and got your certification and everything else you could teach. Yeah. Yeah. Part of me, I feel bad putting through, uh, putting ego through that. But I think, uh, because my experience, I have used these tools and I have really like I like to research on everything I do. I research on these tools and then, you know, I read a lot of their blogs and then thing. So I understand why they don't work. Um, so when I work with clients and then sometimes they will want to use a little bit more aversive method than I can explain to them. I think I can relate to, I understand why they want to use it. And then I can explain to them why they won't work. Even it seems to work right now. Um, so I think that's a valuable experience for me. Although I wish I never did that too. Nico. Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. So I'd love to talk about just a little bit, um, kind of what you guys have accomplished with your dogs and, and maybe, you know, what's the dog related, related accomplishment that you kind of feel proudest of? Uh, Sarah, you want to start this one? So I, I struggled with this one cause I haven't sort of got any major titles that I've achieved with any dogs. Um, Ripley's actually only my third dog. I've had the three dogs, um, uh, that I've worked with. Um, and so, yeah, I think with me, Ripley's, um, a working Cocker Spaniel. He's come from field trial champion lines. He's, he's, you know, well-bred to work and to work hard. He's a hard hunting dog. He wants to be out. He wants to be working. Um, and I'm generally really proud of what I've achieved with him over the last five years in terms of getting a dog that I can live with. Um, but a dog that I can take anywhere.

I mean, I can take him, you know, we, we walk off lead anywhere and everywhere and I can just take him and go. And I know that I can't lose him. Um, he's going to come back to school. He's not going to go off and bother people. He's not interested in other dogs. Um, he's, he'll do all and any of the things that I decide I want to train. I mean, I, a couple of years ago, I did a, a big photo of all his achievements at the end of one year. And he's done, he's got certificates with titles in, he's got team, he's got tricks, he's got scent work, he's got rally, he's got agility, uh, he's got parkour. He had so many different things that he'd achieved. Um, and so, yeah, I am proud of what I've managed to achieve with a dog that, that potentially could have just been an absolute nightmare. And he is still. Um, but, um, you know, I am, I am proud with, you know, what I've achieved and I, you know, I recognize the people that have input that, you know, and helped with that over the last few years to really get us to a place where I, you know, I can pick up, um, a few treats now and say, right, let's try this. And he's like, yeah, what we doing? And he will try anything and everything. So I am, I am proud of what I've managed to achieve with him. That's awesome. Uh, Anna? Yeah. So I think I've had dogs, as I said, for over 20 years and, you know, each one of them teaches you something, they bring you something, they, they leave something when they go, um, it's going to be hard. Um, but, uh, I think that the thing that I treasure the most, um, was when Zoe and I got our NW3. Um, it was, it was such a ride. Um, she was probably the smartest dog I ever had. Um, she could read me like a book. She was willing to try anything. She would look at me if I screwed up like you, oh, what did you do? You know, um, she would, she would be like, oh, what did you do? She taught me so much and she, she had a lot of baggage when I adopted her. She was a rescue. Um, and she came from an absolutely fantastic foster home. Um, but she had a lot of issues and Zoe and I kind of grew up FENZ together. Um, I, I had focused initially on her training and, you know, there was a lot of eyeopening experiences where I realized I really need to focus on her behavior, her mental state, her emotional state. Um, Zoe was very reactive. Um, you know, and, and if you, if you were looking for the dog whose crate is, you know, bouncing, we would be the ones in the corner in the back of the room with the sheets and the, you know, all the panels covering us. And, you know, if somebody went by Zoe would bark and, you know, we had to go through a lot

together. Um, we did everything. I, there's nothing we didn't try. And when we first started nose work, um, it was like this whole new world opened up for us. It just strengthened our relationships so much. There were a lot of ups and downs in our training and our trialing. Uh, but when we got that NW3, it was just like everything came together. The teamwork, the relationship, um, everything that we had learned. It just, if you could wrap it up into one ribbon, it wasn't the ribbon. It was what the ribbon represented the, the culmination of a journey that she and I had kind of grown up together. Um, and that to me was the most important thing. Um, she is very missed. I can tell you, um, it's, it's hard. It's hard. Um, but, oh my God. Um, it's just, you know, we did, I mean, we took every class we could. Um, I just wanted to learn and she was like a sponge. Um, and it just, it just made everything so much better. Um, so to, to have gotten to that point and I really have to credit Stacy, um, for first suggesting we do nose work when Zoe had TPLO surgery, I thought our career, our life was over and the dog would never be able to heal or jump or do anything again. And Stacy said, why don't you try nose work? Um, since she's going to be in a crate for eight weeks. And Stacy was there with us every step of the way. And Stacy was there the day we got our NW3. Um, and you know, there was a lot of ugly crying in the parking lot. Um, and so, so to have gotten that title with that dog and to have Stacy there on that day is probably one of them, if not the most memorable dog memory I have. Um, and that one's going to be tough to beat, I gotta say. So that, that would be it. It certainly sounds that way. It sounds like it's going to be a hard experience to top. It is. But don't tell Axel. Don't. Don't tell him. Nobody has to tell him. Uh, Lizzie, what about you? Uh, so mine was, Yogi is quite a difficult dog. He, um, kind of took me away from agility. He just wasn't taking to it. So we discovered teamwork and obedience. And then we started to compete in Rally. It started off just to fill in the gaps of when there was no other competitions. And then we just really enjoyed it. Um, and he used to get really over it. Well, I thought it was over excitement, but I've kind of since learned that he was stressed and he would just go in the ring and do crazy zoomies and then leave. And I thought I would never kind of get to compete properly with him at all. Um, and then last November, he, we went to the tryouts for the crafts team and he was amazing.

He went the best he'd ever done and everything kind of fell into place and we got selected. Um, and then kind of really leveled down, did like everything we've learned from all the classes we've taken to practice. And he went to crafts and did like the best round of his life. Um, one, one, his individual class and helped our team come second overall. Yeah. Fantastic. And the regime comes true. Um, yeah. So I was a bit emotional that day. Wow. Um, yeah, no, not really kind of like when it all fell into place, but we just all kind of came together. The video is fantastic. Thank you. Lizzie shared it at the time. And I, you know, I know it's on YouTube, wherever it is, but yeah, it's fantastic video. There was, uh, you know, giving a big bounce just before we start. When I post the podcast episode up, Lizzie, you'll have to share the video again so we can all watch and be odd. Yeah. I think I watched it at the time when you posted it, but I'd like to see it again. That's awesome. What about, um, you, Lin-Man? My proudest, I think it's my relationship with Nico. Um, so I, uh, we went from, so he went from this super anxious and stressed dog that will have every day has reactions. He had a lot of triggers like cars as a people, dogs, of course, and noises, the cars, bikes, skateboards, and then, uh, scooters, basically everything you see outside is a trigger. And, uh, um, and, uh, you know, he went from that dog that cannot leave the neighborhood. And then I had, I probably had like ugly cry every night, um, to this confident and, um, happy dog to go to trials. And also a very easy dog to leave this. Um, I take, he, I can take him to hike with his friends, with other dogs that he never met, he never met before. Um, he, I sometimes take him to like patio to eat with us. He loves it because I love to get human food. Um, I have a photo of him sitting next to me and trying to steal my sandwich, like on a chair on the patio. Um, and I think our relationship, so I, um, I feel proud that I can help him to be how he is today. And then also very lucky to have him to help me to be the trainer I am today. Um, I have, yeah, really I, uh, for a long time, that's actually why I got Sonny, the second dog, uh, for a long time, I thought he couldn't trial. So I, that's for a long time. I don't take any trial videos if I go, because it just gave me a lot of stress and I don't want to watch it. It took me a year to watch our first ORT order recognition test video. Uh, it was disaster. He, he just cannot, he was a painting and then pulling and then whining the whole three minutes.

Um, so it took me a year to watch that, but after I watched it and I realized how much progress he's made. So I put two videos together. The first ORT video, which is totally disaster. And 10 months later where we were in our, uh, NW1, a container search. I think everybody saw that video. You probably couldn't recognize it's the same dog. It was like a bouncy, happy, and then like found the odor super fast. Um, so I think I love Ravens. Uh, everybody loves Ravens. But, uh, when I think, when I think the more, I'm just, you know, I'm just glad I have him. I'm glad, um, also day to day life. It's very easy to have him around. Um, since I'm working from home, it's super easy. He needs a chill during the day. He just nap when I fit all day. Follows me. If I get up to get water and come. Yeah. Just really nice dog to help around. So. Yeah. And what about you? Uh, yeah. Well, that, that first dog, the yellow lab that got me down this, um, dog sport path to begin with, when I joined that rally class, my proudest accomplishment was putting a utility dog title on him. Um, and in a mock, but the, the UD is the proudest accomplishment. And I think it's because, well, I know it's because, you know, that dog just taught me that, you know, I can train a dog. You know, I could, you know, if, if someone else can teach their dog to do these five things, then I can teach my dog to do those same five things. You know, um, utility and AKC obedience is sort of has this, I don't know. It's, it's got this, I can't think of the right word, but you know, it's got this mystique about it, you know, and, and, you know, it's this class that not everybody can do. And, and, you know, only the best trainers can get their dogs in the utility ring. And, you know, it was almost like, you know, in the classes I went to, it was almost like we were, we were teaching our dogs utility skills, but it almost felt like, well, don't think you'll ever going to get there. You know, I mean, not that anybody was ever actively trying to discourage me, but that was just kind of the, the underlying message I got. And I, I just thought, I don't see why I can't do that. You know, and, and, you know, and so, you know, we did, you know, I mean, utility is a lot of work and you have to be very devoted to utility. You want to, you have to want to do obedience to do, to do utility, but, you know, it, it isn't out of reach and, you know, and then later on, you know, and kind of even continue the story, I started doing agility with them and I couldn't figure out how you could teach a dog how to weave.

And I thought, if they can teach the dog how to weave, I can teach my dog how to weave. And so, you know, the whole thing with, you know, utility was the big one, but the whole journey with that dog taught me that, you know, I can teach my dog things too. You know, if other people can do it, I can do it too. So, you know, just have to break it down and take the time. And I don't know, he's a special dog. He was a very special dog too. Man, it feels like the one takeaway from everybody's little story was that, you know, it's kind of incredible what you can achieve if you stick with it, right? Like everybody's kind of got that component to their, their proudest moment of, you know, sometimes you just, you just have to stick with it and where you start is not where you finish. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I think generally the hardest dogs teach you the most as well. And, you know, I've often heard people say, you don't get, you don't get the dog you want, you get the dog you need. And in the early days I said, I don't know what it was that I needed. To have bought that. Yeah. I remember every night, you know, after like, uh, just drink some wine, I think I drink the most of wine. Like when I'm working on the reactive, I just tell myself, okay, tomorrow is a new day. Let's just start over again. Right. So just have to do it because I just love this dog and I don't want to do, I want to try my best to make it work. Yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about the TA stuff, um, a little bit more. Now we've had a chance to, to get to know all of you a little bit. Um, so as a TA, you, you guys help the bronze and the silver students in the study groups, the Facebook study groups of the class, um, answering questions, watching videos when they need help or they need a little reassurance. So they go stock, basically just kind of helping them stay on course. I know a lot of students kind of struggle with just sticking with this full six week class, right? Especially if they're not a gold, they don't feel they had that accountability. So any tips or advice for kind of working through a class consistently, or even just getting the most out of the study groups? Uh, Linlin, do you want to start this one? Yeah, this is a constant struggle and challenge for me too. Um, what helped me is, um, make it blank and advance. So I found if I, um, in the beginning of the week, I read through our lectures and I can write down all the exercise, uh, homework exercise I need to do. And I just put into like each day and then, um, it's a little bit easier for me to stuck

to like a stick of it that then I like today I have some time I need to re-lecture and then do the exercise. So that's just harder to do because they spend more time. Um, it feels like it. So just prepare. I feel prepared in, in a beginning of the week. And I, of course I will go back to review a lecture. If I cannot think through, I have the questions. Um, I think plan in each day for the session as well. I found it's easier to stick with it. If I have a set of time, like I, uh, I found dinner time is easiest for me. So I just set aside a part of my dog's dinner. And then if I don't work with them, uh, then they might be hungry. So, so like a certain, you know, set of time and set of like, uh, uh, trades aside, um, help me to stick with it. Um, also because I have weekly plan that I can have a, like a daily plan when I want to work out. Um, so, but it's still a struggle. So I would love to learn more from others. Lizzie, what about you? Um, I felt when I first started taking bronze classes, I used to get quite overwhelmed. I'd get to like week two and I'd still be kind of really needing to work on those exercises and everyone else was progressing. And that's kind of when I would kind of give up. And so I've learned to just kind of not worry about where everyone else is and work at your own pace. And if you're still on week two, when everyone else is on week five, then that's fine. You know, you will get there just kind of when you're ready. I like that. That's an important piece of advice to remember too, is that, uh, brushing helps nobody, right? Not you, not your dog. Sarah? Um, I mean, I would say that you're getting into the habit of videoing everything. Um, even if you never watch it back, um, just, just gets you used to it being there and for the dog as well, depending on what you're doing. But it does mean then if something comes up and you've either got a burning question about it, you're not regretting not having it on video or something amazing happens again, you're not regretting having it on video. So that's been like a big change for me in the last few years is just nearly everything that I do just gets videoed. Um, because, uh, and I've got things set up so that I can easily do that as well. Um, and I think, um, yeah, it's sort of similar to what Lizzie is saying is, um, there's no such thing as behind you exactly where you need to be. Um, because people do panic that everybody's moved on and progressed. If I, you know, if I think about, um, mimically last term, there were certainly people that,

you know, really struggled getting past, um, or needed to keep working on the earlier parts of it, but you know, then the other stages do click in the more that you put the work into those early stages and no point rushing. It doesn't get you there any faster. Um, so yeah, just, just remembering that there's no such thing as behind. And then sort of as a TA, when I'm, when I'm doing feedback on videos and or questions or anything like that, I try to, um, sort of put a task in there or a question in there to encourage the follow-up to sort of try and get more people, um, you know, going back and then doing another video to sort of try and keep people on track. And I've, I've seen it in groups that I'm in of, um, you know, the TA posting up, well, it's week three, how's everybody getting on with X, Y, and Z and keeping that encouragement. I do think it makes, it makes a big difference. If I look at, um, cookie jar games last term compared to the previous ones that I've TA for, it was way more active, um, much more involvement going on there. And I think that will build as more people sort of get used to that and, and, and get better at that and hopefully making the best use of it and getting the accountability. Hold on. I want to make sure you don't miss anybody. Okay. So Anne, what about you? Um, well, um, my advice, um, for the bronze, yeah, you know, it really follows along everyone else. I mean, I also say, you know, video all your training, you know, just get in the habit of doing that. Um, I recommend you do watch it. Maybe you don't feel like watching it right away. I know when I have like a training session that I don't feel super good about, I probably don't watch it for a couple of days, you know, and that's okay. You know, at some point I'll decide to watch it. And nine times out of 10, when I watch it, I realized it really isn't as big as I thought it was. It really looks a lot better than I thought, you know? So, um, I think it's just a good habit to get into and, um, you know, and really that's where the growth occurs. You know, when you, you know, do the homework, video it, look at it, boy, you really can, it really, really does. It really helped me grow in a big way as a trainer. And I think that's my advice to the bronze students too. And, um, and then I think the second piece of advice I give them really, probably the first piece actually is, is just pretend, just tell yourself you enrolled at gold. You, you know, broke your piggy bank and you got in that class at gold, you know, um, you can even write that in your checkbook, you know, that you, you know, that you, you're in

gold and just work it like you were a gold student and, you know, put your questions and your videos in the study group, you know, and if you do that, you're going to make a ton of progress and, you know, like Sarah said, you know, there's no getting behind you are where you are. Um, but, um, you know, you're going to make a ton of progress if you work it. Um, you know, and if you don't, if it just sits in your library untouched, it's not going to do you much good. Just coming back on the video bit, and that's come out of being a TA as well. I don't know about the other guys, but, um, I've become much, much better at reviewing videos and so used to looking at everybody else's videos and reviewing and picking up the key points on there. So that's made a huge difference in my own training to then go back and look at my videos more objectively than perhaps I would have done. So, I mean, you know, the TA roles made a huge difference. Yeah. I also tell people to try to, I mean, I know most people can't follow all the gold threads. You know, it's just, it can be a lot overwhelming. Yeah, it's a lot, especially if it's a bigger class. Um, but if you can find one old thread to follow, you can learn a ton, you know, one or two, maybe. Um, I think that's really helpful for bronze students too. Anna, do you have anything you want to add? Uh, yeah, I think first of all, I would like to thank all the bronze students and all the silver students that are in the study groups because they bring such depth to the class itself. Um, they certainly keep me on my toes. Um, I think they've, they've made me a better trainer and a better observer, um, to, to Anne's point about, um, and Sarah's point of being, you know, being better at watching other people's videos. I mean, these are students that prior to the TA program, um, we were all sort of a support group. Um, but people didn't really have any way of getting objective feedback. And now that they do, I find that people are very engaged. The students, um, are like cheerleaders for each other. They watch each other's videos. They comment on each other's videos. And the bronze students and the silver students that are active in classes, at least the classes that I have been the TA for, they have driven change in the actual curriculum. They have brought out some incredibly good points. Um, some things that we've all kind of taken a step back and go, Hey, what if we did this? Or what if we added this lecture? Or what if, you know, and, and I think they've contributed a lot to the growth of the program in general.

I, I try to encourage them to be aware of their own journey and where they are to participate whenever they can. Uh, but most of all, to take advantage of the camaraderie and the support that they get from the group. Um, as a TA, I can provide feedback and I ask questions and I, you know, post on a weekly basis. It's week two. This is what we're doing. Sometimes I share videos of my own dogs, or if someone brings up a really good point, I'll turn it into a post so that everybody gets the benefit of it. Cause I recognize that the, just like you can't follow all the goals, you also can't follow all the bronzes. Um, even if in, in, on my classes, I asked the students to create their own thread. They do an intro post and all their videos and my feedback all go under that one thing. It's easier to find them and it's easier for others to find a particular video. It's very hard to keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. Um, so they are very engaged with each other. And I think as a result, it, the class becomes rich in knowledge and in experience and they feel empowered to continue. And I think that's one of the really strong points of the TA program is that we have given the students the empowerment to be more active and to be more accountable to themselves for their training because they see other people posting. And it's not about, are we all on the same page? It's really more about them staying engaged in the process. And I think that is one of the most important things that the program brings. And I see, I think the students learn that, um, for me personally, the opportunity to learn from all these wonderful people and watch them grow. I have students that are now in the N to NW 200 class that were students in the 101 study group, and they've come through every single class. And I sit there and I watch videos and I cheer and I clap and I cry, you know, and I'm so excited for these people. And I think that's what is of extreme value for those students to be able to share that with each other and also to have us as their cheerleaders. I think that's huge. Um, and it's really an honor to be able to do it, um, and to watch these people and to be a part of their journey, I consider it to be an honor. They allow me into their world, into their training, you know, the pajama videos, the, you know, the, we didn't clean the floor videos, the, um, I'm, oh my God, my kitchen is a mess videos that we've all posted. And these people are putting themselves out there. And I think it's just absolutely fantastic. I really do.

I really applaud all the bronze students, all the study groups. Um, and I'm particularly fond of the ones that I've been, uh, following along and they all know who they are. So I kind of want to end things off with just a favorite piece of training advice. So kind of have you each share, um, a piece of training advice that, you know, has stuck with you or that means a lot. So Sarah, can we start with you? Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think sort of thinking back on some of the stuff I've said earlier and, and, um, and part, I think it's to listen to your dog really, and also advocate for them. Um, because I'd done agility. That's all I've done. 25 years. I've, I've always done agility with dogs. And then I suddenly got a dog that didn't really want to do agility. And I kept saying, but I want to do agility. And, um, I, once I took a step back and started listening to him, it wasn't just about the, the not wanting to do agility, but it was like, yeah, I like a toy at home, but I don't like a toy out of the house. You need to find something that, um, uh, that I want to work with. So actually taking a step back and, um, working on his reinforcers and then working on what we wanted to train as a sport or anything like that, that's what made the biggest difference. It's finding a reinforcement strategy that works and that worked anywhere and everywhere and all the time. And then, uh, yeah, we can train anything now because I know how to reinforce it. At the end of the day, it's the learner that chooses the reinforcer. And so I think that's been the sort of the biggest thing is listening to the dog and understanding and, and, and working from that basis rather than going pig headed straight into, I want to do this. Yeah. Sometimes your dogs don't always agree with our plans. No, no. Uh, Anna? Um, I mean, it's certainly not an original, uh, thought. I'm probably blatantly taking it from someone, but it's something that really meant a lot to me, which is forget the mistake, but remember the lesson. Um, coming from someone who has made many and who has learned a lot of lessons. Um, I think that sometimes is really the hardest thing. We focus so much on what we did wrong that we tend to lose sight of what that taught us. Um, and once you can change that and you can, you know, you can get to a point and say, wow, I'm really sorry that happened, but I'm really glad that happened because I learned so much from it. Um, I think that's a really, really important point that we sometimes lose sight of. Um, there will be mistakes. There will be many, um, and your dog will forgive them all.

Um, and you know, if you, if you're not sure, throw food and move on. I think that is also a really great piece of advice. Um, you know, if, if, if I do something and I'm not really sure that did, did I do that correctly? Oh, well, here's a cookie. Let's start over. Um, you know, the dogs will certainly appreciate that. But for me, the hardest part has been to look at the lesson and not the mistake. Um, and so if I could impart a little bit of that to other people that are also on their journeys, wherever they may be, that would be my, that would be my takeaway. Forget the mistake, but remember the lesson. I think that reminded me of my other favorite bit, which is, I think I've heard it from both Hannah and from Sarah Ströming as well is if in doubt, throw food. Yes, that is totally Hannah. Absolutely. And, and the day I read it, I thought that's just so brilliant. I do like to think that, um, there's one piece that sometimes people forget, which is if you find that too often you don't know what's going on, you're throwing food. It might be time to stop and look at your last piece. If you find you have to do that more often than not, it might be time to rethink your training plan a little bit. But, uh, but yeah, no, I think that's a great piece of advice for most people. Something goes wrong. It gives you time to think, uh, Linlin, what do you have a favorite piece of advice? Yeah. I think this one probably said in this podcast already, um, it's twin the dog in front of you. Uh, my understanding of it is, um, so if we, um, like a behavior, emotion, you know, sports, the science behind it is the same. So how dogs learn, how, how we change the behavior, how we change the emotion is the same, but different dog is like each dog is different. And then their environment is different. And then when I always work with clients, their owners are different. So when I, when I look at the dog, I can, there's no one formula fits all. I always have to adjust my setup, even sometimes exercise and training plan, just based on that, that dog. Um, so, you know, if we understand the goal, the final goal, um, is there. So that's how we're, um, you know, uh, and then how we get to that goal should be, and should be different because each dog is different. And then I, I still reminded myself very often because it's, it's easier as a trainer. I just to have, this is a formula and you have to follow, but, uh, I, I had to have a trainer like that to like work with. I worked with trainer like that before. And I know that can be frustrating

to the owner and to the dog. Um, so I often reminded myself that every time I work with the behavior of any, everything actually. So. Yeah. Yeah. I think Levi's job on this planet, my, uh, English cocker is to teach me that lesson over and over and over again. He does not work well in formulas. Uh, uh, Lizzie, do you have a, uh, a lesson for us? Uh, it went similar to what Sarah said, really. Um, like I always did agility. And when I got Yogi, that was my plan for him. Um, and he kind of had other ideas, uh, it took my friends really to point out that he was doing it because I asked him to and not because he particularly wanted to. And once we found a sport that we both enjoyed, then he's just kind of gone, it becomes an amazing dog that can do anything. Um, so yeah, that was a big lesson I learned with him. Uh, and Anne? Um, yeah, I love what Anna said. Um, you know, um, don't remember the mistake, remember the lesson. I'm going to remember that. Um, but, um, yeah, a really good piece of training advice. Oh boy. There's been so many over the years. Um, but, um, one of, and I don't know if someone said it cause I had to take my dog out, but, um, Amy Cook once said, um, every time you take your dog out to train, you're teaching them how to feel. It was something like that. And when I heard that, I just was like, I thought, whoa. And, um, that, that's just a really important lesson, um, to me because, you know, as we all know, every time we take our dogs out and we're training them for whatever we're training them for, you know, if they're not feeling good about whatever's going on and we stick with our agenda and push it through, we're just teaching the dog to have really bad feelings about whatever it is we want to do, you know, and I've, I've made that mistake. Um, you know, a number of times, you know, all with good intentions, of course, but, you know, um, that really changed everything for me and it really helped me, you know, and it's hard. I don't always, I still don't always, I have a hard time doing it. I proud to say I'm much better about it, but, you know, that's really helped me learn to recognize when, you know, a training scenario or a place or a moment is just not working for my dog today and accepting that and then just moving on. Well, they're still really young, but, um, I think it's really, I can see the change in, you know, how I work with him and how he is, which could partly be him, but I also have seen the change in Hartley since I kind of woven that piece of advice into my day-to-day training, you know,

so. Yeah, it's an important one. I'm glad you brought it up. Yeah. Um, thank you all so much for coming on the podcast. This was excellent. Uh, a lot of fun. It always is. Nothing, nothing like meeting up in the afternoon to talk with five dog training friends. You know. Thank you. It's a pleasure and an honor. Definitely an honor. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you ladies. And thank you for our listeners, um, to our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week. I'll be talking to Barbara Lloyd about trauma and dogs. Um, if you haven't already subscribed to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Fun. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Thank you. Thank you.