에피소드 41: Jany Böhm

to where you have this 10 minutes that you're preparing for, for years, and being able to do the best that you can. It's, like, even as I'm talking about it, I, I get goosebumps because it's, it's just a, it's a, like, I, what I'm trying to say is that I really appreciate. And, and, and, I don't really know if many people can appreciate at the level that, that the people that have been there understand the, really the, the insane effort and commitment and understanding of training. And, and, and, making incredible sacrifices over and over again to get to where you are. And, you know, it's just not to be taken lightly. And that's part of where we want to go with this public conversation. But, man. Cheers. January is still too far out. Right. Maybe, maybe we see each other sooner, man. Yanni, so, you got second place, FNBB. Very, very, very close competition, very close race, as you would say in Europe. How, how are you feeling now that some time has passed? And, and, you know, you, I, I'm sure you've thought about it back and forth with yourself. And, and, you know, what, what comes to mind? Share, share, share your experience. I know it's interesting to hear. All right. Um, first at all, you look so cool. I'm very, very happy to see you. Very happy to see you. The same. It's been for a while. What is now? What is now? End of, it's, it's, it's May already. Yeah. It's like, so it's been like two months. Yeah. Over two months. It seems forever though, right? Yeah. We all, each other always messaging and something and still in touch. But this is like a good meeting. And I don't even know if I want to talk about FNBB. I know, I know. But, oh yeah. Now it's good, man. Now it's getting much better. Good. That's, uh, two weeks ago and I'm feeling now, I'm starting to realize what happened. And I don't mean the wrong things. I mean the good things. Now it's starting to 50, 60%. My brain is starting to taking the, the good, positive things and what basically happened. But, uh, like last two weeks, it was like, I was like in kind of bubble and trying to really fight with myself to realize what's going to happen, what we're going to do. If we will continue. And what basically is the best, like shit as the reason in my mind, which one is breaking me. And the, the biggest like thing was that I couldn't celebrate, you know, I was basically like the man, which one have to celebrate really. And I did my, I mean, I did my person did, but my personality didn't. I know. In my, in my heart, I was like basically there 50% only.

So the real celebration is starting to be like truly happening now. Step by step. That's, that's all my feelings. Now I, I feel really good to, to, it is like basically really first time we speak about it. Yeah, man. I, I, I like, um, I was telling you through some, whenever we were messaging at some point about, um, being second, like being third or being fourth or fifth. It's very different than being second. And I've been second in many, actually in quite a few national championships, but only one time in the world championship. And it was very much like you, like I, well, I don't know if it was very much like you, like, you know, we, we are all, every competition is different. And that's for sure. And every time, you know, and we cannot compare, uh, judging from some time ago to 10 years and today. But, but, um, yeah, I, I was, I, it was in 2000, I think it was 2000, 2001. It was in Hamburg. It was Germany. Germany. And it was very similar, like your path, you know, like I had Django. He was, I don't think he was even three years old and I've done everything all by myself. And here I am from the States going into Germany. And I, I know I won the competition. Like, like, like, you know, by no, like it wasn't even, uh, um, there's just like any, any time you put these videos and watch them, you, you, there is absolutely like at least four points or five points difference, like that you cannot, you absolutely cannot manipulate, you know? But anyway, I, I was second and because of where I was in my career at the time, that was my very first, well, no, I lied. It wasn't my very first, but it was my very first world championship with Django at the time. And, and, and being second in the world, it's, I mean, fuck, like as upset as you are, when you understand ultimately what second in the world will means, which is, again, it's very painful in one way because sometimes it's a point or half a point or even three points. But then there is this big difference between everybody else. And I, I get it. The, the difference is that I was so, I knew that I was the champion, but so I wasn't, it's okay. I was still happy because I was in a different place than where you were at this competition. Cause I was, you know, the Bulgarian guy from the States coming and all of a sudden breaking in through Germans and, and Belgians and everybody else in the world that is like, well, where, where is this guy coming from? You know? So in, in a lot of ways that was still probably one of my very, very special moments. But ultimately I, I totally understand how being second place is, it's a, it's a just

fucking difficult place because. Yeah. As I say, it's just, there is nothing, nothing around it, man. But sometimes there's just so many factors and so many things about the competition. Anyway, I'm glad that you're feeling, you know, like a, that's one, one thing about competition and getting back in and going back strong and, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Tough one because again, like I, as many people as were, you know, I mean, I mean, there's like, and I, I can see all sides of this and I really want to talk about judging and, and a lot of things just as we've talked in the past, but I also, you know, I've been at least three times in your place and I truly understand. What it is. And I think everybody though, uh, everybody that competes at some point, even if they're competing to get in the top 10, instead of becoming world champion, the, the level of competition is still kind of similar because. You know, you're number 13 and somebody gets to be number 10 and then we judge and then we look at the points and it's like, well, was it fair? And that's where it gets very crazy because. If we have 120 dogs between every group of dogs, there is this dynamics that when you're in that group, you're like, well, did I get fucked? Was it a fair competition? Um, and one thing that really kind of, uh, um, I, I don't even know what word to use, but a little bit frustrated me when I was reading some of the comments was comments that were coming from people that don't understand. And I have, I, I, I don't mean it in a disrespectful way, but there is, there is people that train, there is people that compete, but they don't even know how many points you can take. If the dog, let's say slightly chew on the dumbbell or makes a little crooked finish or, you know, like, like they don't have the knowledge to actually be the loudest out there and to say what is fair and what is not fair because they are not the, like, uh, intuitively we all understand when we see something nice. Yes. But then there is rules and I don't know. I, I wish that most of us, like if most of us get to know the rules better, that's going to improve everything. Um, just that's going to improve everything. Um, but what do you think about people understanding the rules? I agree with you. I, I a hundred percent agree with you. I have some, some minds and, and thoughts, which one I want to share with the whole world about, about fucking everything, judging and maybe improving something what we have to

think about the future, a lot of things about, especially like the picture, what I want to see on the field as the judges. But I first, first I want to say that, uh, it's important how do you, you know, there is a lot of ways how to lose. And it's important. How do you lose? It's not about that. We cannot lose. And I would really say, honestly, it's not for me the shame at all to lose with somebody who is better, really deserve that. Then I will press the right second, even third place doesn't really matter. Then I'm like truly happy for that place. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's, that's what happened for me in the first vice champion title to 16 in FCI. Where was winning Josef Aramushchin? And that was really, truly deserve. That's one example for my life. But to lose politically for no reason, it's something which I cannot take it. And I will never take it. And I will fight all my life until I will take the over of that bullshit for the whole world. So that's what I want to say. And that's what we have to be focused and concentrate because I had the opportunity to say stop and I'm gonna do nothing. And then I just wake up because somebody told me I do not have to do that. So what which I want to do and only think I want to be focused now to help and say the message to everybody that we are not afraid and come on, man, we change it. We can do that. Tell me. Tell me more. Talk to me. What do we need to change? What do you think we need to change? Like I, before we go, I will probably there will be things that I would challenge you with. But I think that's the cool thing about you and me talking, you know, because we can talk that way. First thing, first thing, it's been one year I have been helper in World Championship in Romania. And there was the same guy, supervisor, Mr. Edgar Sherkel. We share with Edgar lots of dinners and lots of thoughts about FMVB. And he's one of the biggest in the like biggest animal in the FMVB commission and everything. And we talked about which kind of judges should be and what kind of characters of the judges and everything. And my one thought was like my personal, like if I'm in competition, man, I will be honest. When I see obedience last year, the judges, it's so boring. And only in Greece, where was the Martin Cruz and Mark Oliver Radkin obedience, that was the championship where they have really nice attitude on the field. It was like really one after many, one of really last years, which one was good. But except this championship, all of them was so boring. And I mean boring like it seems judges on obedience are sleeping.

And to be honest, in protection, you basically, you don't rest. You see really from beginning, they start to run the blinds until you finish the side transport and give the leash on. It's like boom, boom, you know, it's like between three, four minutes. Ciao. And you can, you can just keep concentration and everybody love protection. But in obedience, you need to see that the judges like, you know, it is kind of show us well, but the best and for what are people exciting is then the judgment. So if the judge is there talking like he's sleeping, I mean, we know what we are, what I mean. I gave in that time some opportunity, for example, like giving for the obedience also of women, women for me, like the judges have even better feeling because they are really, they are really open and they do not, in my opinion, thinking about like bullshit there. They are really concentrate for what they have to be. So it was like one point. If you think about it, tell me now last 10 FMBB, where was the woman judge? In B and C, I mean, yeah? Not in tracking. I know two world championships, where was the tracking woman? But this is one thing. Have you think about it ever? That's an interesting question. That's an interesting one. But when we talk about women judges, who comes to mind? Like I, like I tell you what, like I don't, like I don't want to look at woman versus a guy versus Asian versus European. I want the best judges to judge us because it takes, because they need to appreciate what we do. And not just appreciate, but they need to understand. And if it happens that there is no woman, I'm okay with that. But if there is a woman, I'm also okay with that. So, but ultimately. The thing is that we have in the world judges, like young judges, women. But the problem, and let me just finish the sentence at the point. He, I mean, when I was saying this thought and this idea, I was just like giving, you know, some advice. Their answer for me was like, woman having the balls to judge that for championship. They are, they cannot do that. The judge must have balls. I mean, this gender problem is for me bullshit. And to be honest, we need on the field to have also really nice show. And not only like judge which one only see the bad things. Okay. So I know personally really a lot, which one are much better than a lot of judges, which one have been on the field a couple of years now. And so for me, the point is that if we coming, like I'm, I'm young and I'm bringing some advice, which one I feel it. And if somebody is telling me the answer, like, no, they have no balls to judge this. And it's a bullshit for me. Right.

We cannot. Yeah. That's not that. We can say, okay. Yeah. Okay. We will stay in the price story and in stone age. Okay. Right. So it's not about women. I mean, it's about that attitude to listen and do something for the sport. Yeah. I got you for sure. For sure. But anyway, the other thing, which one is really super, super necessary to change. And I mean, it is that system on FNBB for judges on the final. You know, I, I really liked the final. I mean, it's this, it is destroying our dogs. It is fucking war. It is kind of, man, especially, and especially when you go in Saturday and you have a couple of hours to recover your dog, prepare him some training. It's so suck. It's nobody can imagine. If you don't experience that, you cannot imagine. It's like you are sore, but your dog is like four times more sore. Yeah. And he will give their fucking everything. So final, I like it, but I don't like the system there. And we are, we were talking about it last year in the podcast, this year in the podcast, still nothing is changing. So I would say again, and I mean, you know that already what I say, there is only one system, which one can be fair about if there is four judges and that's like no canceling the points, but to plus them and say the final number for all of them. But the most important is that they have to not be together. No talking each other. Be separate. Show, show the numbers like that. Or give it to the fifth person, which one just take the card. Yeah. This person has no right to have a plan even. You know what I mean? Like, like to make it really fairly, if this have a sense, because again, the experience from, from this year, um, supervisor from tracking, supervisor at all on this championship were the two guys, which one basically decided about who will be the world champion. Those two guys from obedience and from tracking, man, they were there for nothing. They were there just for the cancel them. You know what I mean? So because we are in this, we, we share this stage and FMVD many years. We, I really dare to talk about it loud because that's not fair and that's not normal, man. That's, that's like, can you imagine in MMA, like there is like three, four judges and they, they will cancel them. They basically are for nothing. I know, I know, but actually I was going to bring, I was going to bring the MMA and, and later in the conversation, but here we are. So let's just talk about it. I know, I know we, we both love it. We watch it every day when we have an opportunity together and we get so frustrated when the referee and the judges score the wrong way.

And, and then when we talk between each other, we're like, well, yeah, it's upsetting. I know we know who was, we, we think he won, but ultimately he left it to the judges to decide. Right? Exactly. It's not his fault. It's not his fault. Yeah. And, and so like a, like a fighter, if you, as a fighter, if you cannot finish the opponent and you leave it to the judge to decide who the fuck knows what's going to happen. And a lot of times the judges decide their own way. And sometimes I don't think they even do it on purpose. Talking about MMA, I'm not talking FNBB, right? I know, I know. And, and, and I mean, I know this has to be in your head. If you had one of your seats out of motion, it was game over. Right? Right. Or maybe no, maybe they were going to play something more. Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? But, but, but, but, you know, like when I compete, I always look at this. I'm like, okay. I know, I, I know judges that don't like me. Like I, I can even right now give you names. Like I'm not afraid because we, it's open, you know. You don't have to be because they are not afraid. Right. And when, when this is the case, I, I do the best that I can not to give them opportunity. And they can only take little things, but they cannot kill me. But it still doesn't work. FMBB talking about the judging. It's been going for a very long time like this. And it was, I don't think, so the four judges, it's been, ultimately, it was a great idea. It's like, well, let's, this, I mean, how can this go wrong? You have four judges and a supervisor. How can it possibly go wrong? Right. And eventually we see it over and over again that it does go wrong for, for whatever the reasons are. And I'll try to list some ideas of what I think. And, and we go back and forth on this. One of the crazy ones for me, when I truly was like, okay, this absolutely cannot work. That was in PSEC in 2015. You were, you were a helper in back then. Yes. Yes. Like, Czacek and, and I mean, both Czech guys, it was not right. And you had, you had, you had the top of the top of the top judges that are still in the top. And, and I'm like, okay. And for everybody that is forgotten or hasn't seen it, it's on working dog. But you can go back and forth and bottom line. This is one of the, the, the, the, the ways I'm thinking of it. Let's say, let's say I'm a judge. And you're competing. And it really matters. It's a fucking world championship, right? And I'm thinking, okay.

It's Yanni. I can give him 94 or I can give him 96. I'll give him 96 and maybe the other judges will cancel my score out because it's too high. But I show my friend, my score in some way that, you know, kind of favors it. I think that's possible. But then what happens when you have two more friends or, or whatever in the judges and they all think the same way. And now, all of a sudden the scores become unrealistic. So is it possible that the four or five judges, when they do that, they're thinking, oh, I'll give this score and it will cancel out. It's no big deal. Ultimately, the best one's going to come out. So that's one possibility. It's always the going back and forth. It's always this thing about not allowing. It's like, okay, one country, one team, one person gets screwed this year. And then the next year, they return it to them. And it goes back and forth. It's like what it's called tit for tat. It's like you, you fuck with me. I fuck with you next time. And so at some point we need to actually grow up and appreciate the amount of effort that all of us put in this. And somehow have the courage to start fresh and say, let's be honest. Like the world is not anymore so divided. Like we have friends in every country. We train with everybody. We know everybody. Which is very difficult probably and maybe impossible. But this whole thing about the horse country or the, you know, there always will be some preference, you know. Like we are humans. There is no way we cannot. Just like as I, I mean, immediately after your performance, I'm like, well, you, you were, for me, you were the best. Now, how true that is, I don't know. Because I probably am, no, not probably. I know I'm biased because you're my friend. And I'm looking at it in a very different way. So who knows if, if we were not, and I didn't know how you turn, I didn't know, maybe, maybe I would have a different view. But this is the human factor that ultimately we cannot take out. Oh, a lot of talking. That's fine. That's, that's, that's it. Always when people will decide that it's this risky. It's not the computer. Right. So one of the things that it was, that I think at least it should change immediately. This is, we need critiques. You cannot just give points, assuming that everybody understands, because it's a world championship. That was decided at one point to save time. Okay. You got 82 points.

Thank you very much. Shake hands off the field. Next one. Well, maybe one day we can be there. But as long as the program keeps evolving and we keep looking for different things, and we want to have every judge accountable. Like if you give these 92 points, I want to hear what, where you gave those points and how this happened for you. Because if you don't tell me, you're assuming that we all understand the rules and we all know the, what we are striving for and so on. And giving a critique, and if you, even if you have four judges or five with a supervisor, I think still we can count, we can have the judges accountable by giving their critique. They don't need to give a big seminar, but they can say, yeah, it's a sit out of motion. You got a good and you got high good or whatever. And you give the critique the way you're supposed to. So we understand what you're looking for. Because if you just throw a point, maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong. But nobody fucking knows. As long as we can hear, then we can agree what a judge is looking for. Is he trying to push something? Is he favoring a person? Is he going, you know, get a little bit more into the judge's head, so to speak? Yeah. Right. And, but for this to happen, that means that a world championship cannot have so many people in. Like, I understand that being popular, being hundred and like some crazy number, but I don't think we are at the place to where we are. Okay. Well, we are so proud. We have 200 and this at the IGP world champion. So what? We can have probably 300 if we wanted to. But what about if we put it in a number that is appropriate so we can spend the time, perform correctly, allow the judges in. Like, I mean, again, I have license, but I'm not a judge. I don't do it because I know myself and I like to, you know, to, I mean, to stay focused for 130 dogs. There is no question that at some point you're going to mess up. That's the first bullshit. That's the first bullshit. Right. No, no, no. I don't agree. I mean, these are some of my, my thinking that, you know. Yeah, super taught. Super taught. Very, very. Proved to me a few times that five judges, as, as cool as it looks, somehow it is not working out. Yeah. I mean, we had, and again, like, I mean, like, I, I know you're going to remember your competitions and I remember, I don't, you know, I don't remember stuff, but there is certain competitions that they're like. You never forget. You never forget. Like slide by slide, point by point, I can break it down. And now who was a judge and I know everything because it mattered.

Like it was really, it really mattered. And I know you, I know from that point of view, you know. Now the question though, what makes us think that if we replace judges and we say, okay, we have enough of these guys. Let's let's have these new ones. Yep. What, I think, what guarantees that we're going to be on the right track and we're not going to waste another 10 years? Because like, I've, I've done it for, for quite some time. Like I was, um, no, I actually did with, uh, with Marcus Noyce, a podcast just a couple of weeks ago. It's going to come out. And I had a, the, I had a t-shirt from the very first Belgian Shepherd world championship. You know, I mean, it's just ridiculously crazy. And, but the reason I'm saying this is because I've kind of seen, you know, changes and evolution and changes. Um, but that thing about not understanding rules, not agreeing on changes of the rules. And, well, you're from that country and I'm from that country. Therefore, I have to favor this guy instead of this guy. This has been going on since I've been in the sport. How do we get to be, to play in a fair play, right? Because ultimately you can ask any of the competitors we want to play on a fair play. Unless we're like, oh, well, I have a little bit of a favorism here because I'm in my country. I'm going to get prepared better than you. And I'm going to have a judge better than yours. I guess that's a inevitable part of competition. That's your home field. That's like in soccer. That's in, you know, there is always that little element that we cannot probably totally get rid of. But how, what do you think can happen? Um, like, man, I have just, my head is exploding right now thinking. I guess the question is, if we say, well, let's get these judges instead of these ones. What kind of, what makes us think that that's going to make a difference, I guess? You know? I hear you. Well, so, uh, you still remember what I say about women judges? Yes. Just want to finish that. You know how we are, like, when we play with the boys and we are there like four or five boys and there is no woman. We always behave differently than when is there between one girl. It's normal. That's a human thing. And judging is the same. And when, uh, somebody has the, like, biggest position and those under him want to do it, not for the country, not for the payer, but for the judge, because he is there. Um, I'm pretty sure if there is a woman, she will not do that.

You know, so for my focus about, like, women's, like, to finish that very quickly, it's not only that, uh, as I'm saying and I really meaning, I really, really sign it. And women have very often much better feeling and they are much better judges than men. And I really think this, this can be a game changer, not only because of that, but also because of the system in the final where exactly judges go together, like in the playing balls, when it's bowling. And they're talking shit and then say like, well, how much do you give him today? Say seven. Dude, are you crazy? Give him 84. And I give him 87. Okay. Then everybody are happy. If there is a woman, which one will stay between them, she'll fuck them up. And I mean, the guy, which one was staying on the, on the other side, like a helper, where was the judge a woman? And she was really, truly doing that because I, I, I can't really prove that, that she was doing that. And that supervisor wasn't happy. That's why he answered me that. And I'm so sure. That's why since that wasn't woman posted. Anyway, that's a, like my opinion. And one thing about, but you bring out super point, man, exactly. We need a critic. I mean, we need a critic, but we need a critic from the public. Because again, we know what I really hate in our sport. I really hate it. And I'm so grateful we will talk about it. Look at, look at our podcast. We truly openly and honestly talking there, right? We do not hide anything. Right. That's how it should be. That's how it should be completely. And what is in our sport very common in World Championship? Yeah, next time. You know, don't be disappointed. It was missing one point. Don't, don't worry about it. Next time it will happen. And like one month after, nobody care. Nobody give a shit. Everybody are like pussy. Everybody like super quiet. And nobody say he was the fucker who fucked up the whole competition. There is nobody who's saying that. I'm like very already, very done with it. You know what I mean? Because exactly MMA, you will remember even more than me. But what do I remember? There is also very much possible about judging score to do something that, you know, the truly winner is not winner. We know. But until it happened that people started to talk, spread the message and share and everything loud and openly, nothing happened. But then, you know, imagine you are the judge and you will be the judge 15 years and you will do how you want, no matter what, if it was fair or not. And because you are the big, big, big, big, big enemy, nobody will say anything. Yeah. And then once coming people, which one will talk about you?

But talk about you like never. And everybody will see videos and everything. And everybody will comment. I mean, the whole world will stay against the guy, against you like the judge. You will feel next time that confident to do the same shit or you are going to work on yourself to change it and show how is it in that moment? I mean, about myself, I never give a fuck what people think about me. Right. I always focus on myself. But about this, when I have decision and decided about who is coming to be now world champion, man, I will fucking thinking about it if I'm right or not. Right. And this is like for me the biggest, biggest thing. If we will be still quiet and people will be like pussy and will not talk about like this was wrong and this was wrong and shit. I mean, people talk about it, but they are not exactly honest. They do not show and target the point, which one is it. You know what I mean? They talk shit about it, but not really, not that valuable things. Not that valuable things. The other thing for me, which one you said, is 100% signed by me. That judges, especially in final, they have to say the critic. They have to do that. They have to say this. You know, I came now to the, this weekend was happening Czech championship for FCI qualification. Yeah. Yeah. I was just there one day with my sparring, sadly. I mean, I mean, I mean, officer training support and something. And I met a lot of Czech people there. And I was like, just a little bit sharing with them. And there two guys said really funny sentence to me. Like, you are the first in the world who lose 11 points for sitting in motion. You understand me? I mean, yeah. We know that citizen 5 points. I mean, of course I lose somewhere more. Yeah. But it's like, it's something for to thinking about. Like, if you watch that, there is like, where did I fucking lose 11 points? I don't even know. I mean, especially in the final obedience, which one was for me much better than the normal in World Cup, where it was only the same mistake. But look, I can take it. What I cannot take it is, it's not only about me. There was a lot of competitors. And I mean, especially the third one was for me, even, even, he was even better than the winner. For me, truly. Like, which one was the third? And he didn't even know where he lose the points. You know, there is like, this is the shit. You do that whole year. You bring a lot of stuff, sacrifices. We prepare the fucking half year for this competition. You prepare, you prepare from, from much, much more than a year or two or three or four. Yeah, of course. You prepare from day one, you prepare for it.

So it starts in first training, but you don't know in the end. I mean, it's, isn't it arrogant? At least this is the littlest, littlest fucking word, which one I can say now. Right. I mean, you stay there and then the supervisor is coming. I want to see his paper. I want to see his letters. I want to see where he is taking the points. And I will say now something fucking loud. Who fucking know today that very good high is nine or eight and a half? Man, I still not got it. Did you get this? Really? Like you are, you are super sure? Tell me eight and a half. Thank you. I think there is, there are several important points that need to be discussed. And not just you and me. This needs to be discussed in, in judges camp. There, it is a shame that even today, 2024, there is a judges camp, but there is no competitors committee. Yes, man. Yes, man. We need a competitor committee that's selected by, by competitors. Like, okay, we trust you, Yanni, to be one of the people that represents the competitors. We trust you, Mia, or, or whatever names we want to put to represent. And hopefully we have not the same type of person that has exactly the same understanding. Because if we all think alike, then we are stuck. Then, then we cannot evaluate. Exactly. Ivan, listen, you are training. You are still active, right? You have now young dog, Tarzan, which one you have ICP done. So you are open for FMDB 2025. Is it true? I hope so. Yeah. Very cool. How old are you? 43? Let's say I like 44. Cool. And you are not judged. I tell you, I'm 60. Yes. And tell me now, please, please. How many judges are there? Which one have been trained as dogs talking 15 years ago? I will be nice. Not 20. I will be nice 10 years ago. How they can judge today in 2024? Tell me now, please. This is, this is one of, again, another one from biggest problem. It's like, I believe that all the judges, internationals, are like, I really want to judge the world championship. One day, I want to do that. I believe, you know, but I will be probably in 60 also not helping world championship, man. Right. Probably not. I will tell you with the judging, it's a, I know, and I'm sure you, you must know this. There is times when a judge is selected to judge a big competition, not because of any other reason, but because it's his time. It's like, oh, he's been judging forever. Yes, exactly. We should give him the opportunity. No, this is not a, not a reward.

Like, it's not like, okay, well, you've judged and you've spent so much time and you should. No, we want the best. And again, if it's a woman, if it's whatever, we want the best because it is important. It is so important. All this time and since I started competing, I've been, that conversation is not new to me. And I have had extremely strong opinions, one side or the other side, believe it or not. I've been on, on, on both sides when it comes to can a judge that has never trained a dog be a good judge. And I have went both ways. If that judge is really good, man, who cares if he has trial dogs and if he's competing next year with another dog. That's good. But what if not? Right, right, right, right. But that's, I think this is where we need to, we need to. It's not about age. It's not about this. And it, yeah, I think we, we have to stay. We have to be careful of just kind of how you say, well, we need a woman. And I'm saying we need the best. And if this happens to be five women, Jesus Christ, let's go. Yes, exactly. And if we haven't. But to give them not opportunity, it doesn't solve anything. Agree. Yeah. Agree. Agree. And so with the judges, I think it's a way to say, well, if they haven't competed in last 15 years, they shouldn't judge. I would disagree with this because if they can be good at judging, they don't need to compete. But if they, because when you compete, I mean, you and I compete. We are, we are in this like competition mode, right? Yeah. But then there is judges that are really thinking and putting time and trying the best they can. I'm not saying they, they don't make mistakes, but they're trying the best they can. And maybe they haven't. But if we say, well, you haven't competed in 20 years. So what do you know? And I bet you some of those judges will know more than the majority of the competitors because they don't, they don't spend time to, to learn the rules. Yeah. They had the good eye 10 years ago. They will have the good eye today. I agree. I agree. But listen, you know, what did I say? It's not about age. It's about nothing. What about, you know, I, as the international helper, have to be every second year tested again. Right. Understand? So I haven't been tested a couple of years because I'm every year in the highest competition. Right. We can plus them also with world championships. So they do not tested me because they have seen me in action. But this is what I'm talking about. I'm in Aether. I'm online. I'm still in the action. I'm still on the stage. What about Judge? Which one is 10 years? No there. No thinking about anything. Nobody see him.

And then he's coming to the world championship. Like, yes, let's do it. Come on, buddy. He's taking the letters and reading it today. And come on. I mean, he doesn't need to even read the letters because for me, number one is a feeling. But the point which one I want I'm getting in is test. And if you, as the judge, have to decide who is going to be world champion, you need to be tested before that. And at least in some competition. So let's do it like in April is the FMBB. In Merch there is another competition, high one. And because we want to give him there, he will do judging here. So that means that country cooperate with FMBB and they will give there for, you know, like just because this judge haven't been judging 10 years. For example, this is just for example. If somebody like coming back to MMA and we will not give him the world champion title shot right now, we will test him with somebody who is in the half middle of podium. And then we will see how much this is. This is normal. Yes. This is normal. Yes, for sure. So if we test the judges, we give, you know, many years ago, it has been happening in Czech. And I really love that. They have been doing it also with the helpers. We have been there like 25 helpers, international ones. That's the highest class. And we did test before the qualification and, you know, all the championships and like before the season. And they gave us numbers like third, three, two and one. The number three have been done like some little breeds. At second have been like doing some quality. The one have been doing the biggest. Right. All the same. But you know how many were the number one? Four. It was, it was only, we were only four helpers and we have done four competitions. We four. Right. Isn't it cool? No, it makes complete sense. I think it's perfect. So this time they have doing this also with judges. Do we know? Because I, I'm not sure like, and, and I wish that this is something that the judges committees or whatever they are, they don't stay so close, but they actually make it more public. So we understand how selection happens. Because I, I honestly don't know how judges get selected. I don't, I don't know neither. Right. I don't know neither how they do that. And maybe at some competitions there is intentions that are different from another competition. Man. And that's not right. That's, that's true. But listen, does that make sense? They always select the helpers, right? Fuck man. They, they even select them one day before. Which is crazy. And I don't like it, but I'm not today talking about helpers. In the same, listen, who is more important, helper or judge?

In my opinion, they are in the same level. Yeah, you can, yeah, I agree with you. Track layers, the same thing. 100%. Track layers, the same thing. Every, every single one matters. Everybody who decided somehow who will be the best. Yes. They are most important. But then we can talk three hours about even like, why do you select the helpers? Yes, because you can. How is possible that the judge is coming there and telling you how you have to do that? You really can have a track layer that knows the flights. Just as judges should not. Yeah. Communicate with scores. Track layers should not know which dogs are coming next. You should have no idea who are you laying a track for. Yeah. Let me do my thing. Right. Right. So one interesting one that Marcus came when I was talking to him, he was like, like you're talking before. How do we select the judges for this event? Super important. But what Marcus brought up was, I think, also a brilliant idea. And this is, okay, when you've done the competition, you need to come back to the judges committee. And you have to now justify what you saw and how you judged. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that also can be a very important thing. Is it time consuming? Of course it's time consuming. But guess what? People like us are giving the bigger part of their lives to train. So don't tell me that you cannot come back after a big competition and reevaluate every single judge how they performed and have them justify what they saw. I believe it can be super cool or super fit because it will be even more politic. But I personally, I personally believe it can really help. And I know that it was happening in 2000, I believe, 19 in Czech Republic that there was some kind of meetings after all every day that they have some kind of meeting with the judge. I think so. I don't know if this happened ever more. But in this time, I was sleeping in the other room beside and I have heard them. So I know. So I know. Something like that. Something like that. Like kind of, what to say, meeting after, you know. Like where you have to prove why and what you have done. Yeah, I'm not saying just like, yeah, meeting, let's shake hands, let's everybody congratulate, we did a good event. No, no. No, no, no. Let's watch performances and tell me what happened. I do remember these ones. Nice. Maybe it was just the critic against them. But I will open something. Which is like very relative. What do you think you have been watching from US FMBB now? And do you think that from 140 dogs, it's absolutely, absolutely normal to get in obedience the biggest points, 93 ones and then twice 91 and that's it?

What do you think about it? So I have, and again, as I say, man, like, I, I, I, just like everybody else, I changed my opinions. And who knows what my opinion will be five years from now. One of the unfortunate things about this FMBB. And I don't know, like, I don't want to speculate. But most of us that were not there, and even the people that are there, I've been in a competition. I know when I'm in competition, I cannot really pay attention to everything that's going on because I'm laser focused on what I need to do. So, today, 2024, it's absolutely not acceptable that you cannot replay the videos of the competition. Like, this absolutely cannot happen ever again. And I don't care if it's FCI, FMBB, WSV, whatever the fuck it is. If we have a world championship competition, we must have all videos. Exactly. Exactly. You have the right to see that. Right. Yeah. Because right now, when you ask me this question, you're putting me in a position that I did not have enough opportunity to, to give a honest opinion. But listen, stop. Yes. That's why I'm asking you, because I want to hear exactly this answer, and just to send everybody the message. This is another thing why I'm opening this tema. Right. Because that's the same, like, we don't know the shit about how they select the helpers. We don't know the shit about how they do select the judges. We don't know why there was not the video. So we don't even know why there was 93 only in obedience. Correct. That's why I'm asking you. I am, I'm, I'm satisfied with the answer. You don't need to say anything. I mean, I have more to talk about this, because it's like, I, shit, I have so much to talk about this. Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it, it just like, whomever, hopefully, some of the big people that rule are listening and understand the importance of today. We need videos. We, it's absolutely not acceptable. And. It's perfect. Video is the only proof. And if you, for whatever reason, there is some animosity between, let's say, Matthias with Working Dog and FMBB and, and I don't care. Figure it out. Yeah. We don't need to. Whoever. Yeah. Like, like ultimately, ultimately think about everybody in the world that wants to learn, get better and train correctly so they can be successful. And, and yeah. So the videos are like, there is no way. Like if, if this happens one more time, I will be extremely frustrated. Like I, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm fucked up right now, but right. This cannot happen. This cannot happen. And again, I don't want to speculate exactly. I've heard quite a few different sides of the stories. Why? And me, me too. Me too. But, but it doesn't matter.

Ultimately, if you, if you're going to be accepted to host a championship, a world championship, you need to make sure. Yes. You're a hundred percent responsible to have these videos. Imagine, imagine now is the world championship of ice hockey in Czech Republic happening right now. Imagine like we cannot watch that. Right. Because we probably cannot get in. Right. Everybody. Yeah. Somebody don't even have the money. So I think it will be like a third war. Like we will burn this fucking television studio, man. I can imagine. I cannot imagine. I cannot watch our team to play ice hockey for championship. Right. And that's only ice hockey. So I understand your frustration. Yeah. Because like, like for all of us that. And again, I'm really like, I know even, even when I'm in a competition, when I am actually a competitor at the world championship, I still have to go back and watch the videos. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, I, I, we, we rely on this. This cannot be no more. This cannot be no more. Yeah. So this is one thing because we, we cannot dissect. We can, we just, yeah, whatever. It reminds me like 2000. I mean, not 2000, like 90s, you know. Oh yeah. Over 20 years. There is a competition. 30. A month later, there's going to be a magazine that's going to come out with some pictures and maybe some VHS tape. Okay. But this time is long gone. We can do way better very easy. The thing is that it's, it's very easy. It's, it's like I, I would say this is irresponsible at this point if you cannot provide that. Irresponsible. We have been talking about it so many times in our podcasts. I'm just curious. Do you think the right people are listening or they just don't give a fuck? What do you think about it? I, I actually. This is one thing we have been talking about. Yeah. Because we want to grow our sport. Everybody are sharing and spreading the message. Like we want to grow our sport. And then when it's the biggest event, hardest competition happening, we cannot see it even. Yeah. Like people are messaging me. What happened? We cannot see that. You know what I mean? And that's the, that's the one, one of the, I'm going to bring this back again because it's, I think it's extremely important. We have to have, we have to select people, competitors, high level competitors that understand the rules that, and I'm not, I, I don't mean. All the modern, modern dog sport life. Right. Right. Not only rules. All about it. All about it. Right. We need to be, we, we, there is no other option. There is really, in my opinion, no other option. But as long as there is a judges committee, there has to be a competitor committee. And we need to work together.

You cannot be told from above. No. Now, this is a discussion. Where do we want the sport to go? What do we want as a, as a complete unit? Judges, helpers, track players, competitors. We are all in the same place. Yeah. Once we have competitor committee being part and having some, I wouldn't say influence, but having interaction, maybe we get better understanding of what those judges want. Maybe we say, well, what you want is actually quite. This is exactly good. Maybe it's quite unreasonable. Can you repeat that again? What the judges want. Right. That's it. Right. This is another thing, man. My name is Yanni and I don't know what the judges want. Yeah. Because there is a big thing. And I'm really saying my experience right now, two weeks ago from the protection, for example, just, okay. I would say more, but protection. I lost three points of where my referee is in the guarding position. Right. Because the judge said he should be direct of the helper. Right. Now, I will tell you my opinion. There is no in the rules saying that the dog has to be front of the helper. There is saying that the dog has to guard the helper. So, that's not true. One point. Second point. Who say that he is not direct to the helper? He is exactly direct to the helper. Because he is barking to him. Okay. That's another thing. And third point. Did I know that? Right. That this is not possible? That somebody doesn't like it? Yeah, yeah. That's actually the most important part. Like the other two. You go there with something doubting. And some people tell you this. And some people tell you this. We have been talking about it one year ago in Czech Republic. And we talk with really high position judges like Martin Pejia and those guys. And I ask him. Listen. What do you prefer in barking? What is the right position? And he said there is no right position. There is only. Most important. Where do the dog bark? So, if the dog sits on the middle or here. And he barks to the helper. He guards the helper. It's correct. Because there is no touching. It's interval. It's dominant. It's frequently. It's a rhythm. And that's it. There is enough pressure and no touch. Excellent. No talking about it. No discussion. Right. I'm sick about this. You know? Yeah. I, I, man. I understand your frustration. Who? How do we unpack this? It's like you don't know when you go there fight and. No, no. Trust me. I, I fucking. Like I, like I, I. I know you know. I understand your frustration. I know you know. Now. We've trained and we will train together. Yeah. That's who we are. And we, like, we train a little different in this part of things. Right? I like my dog this way. You like your dog this way.

And these are. And these are. In a way. That's the beauty. Of. Hey. there are many ways to create the best picture, right? Because I train different, I can see how a judge can talk something. But I cannot say explicitly how correct you are because if a judge or not a judge, this is actually not a problem of one competition, this is a problem of... Global, this is a global problem fucking 10 years ago. Exactly, exactly. If you as a judge, as the governing body of all judges, if you have failed to explicitly educate and make a point what you like and what you don't like, what you want from us, but then judge it, that's fucked up. Yeah. That's fucked up. What do you like? Man, that's not fair. This is like a fucking lottery. Right. Does this judge like this guarding or what about it? You know? I have been competing in the competition where this kind of guarding was for the judge excellent. Right. How this is possible? Right. The judge in the end on this competition came to me. He shook my hand and told me, man, if you can fix this guarding, it can be for 100. Yeah. And I told him, I did it for purpose. Yes. Because I like it. Yes. And he said, and that's okay. Right. But I would answer him immediately, but it's not okay. I didn't know you don't like it. Right. So, man, I love our conversation. And I am, like I would be the same like that judge. I would say, Yanni, man, if you have the dog guard differently, you have 100. For me, but this is individual thing. This is interpretation. And this is the problem why, if you are not, like if you don't tell us what is, what you want to see, and we are training for something, and one judge gives you amazing score, and another one doesn't. this is not a problem of training. Because we are trying to make the best, the best performances we can as competitors. Yeah. And, um, I, I see it as a, as I see it as a big failure. In the judging. Mm-hmm. And, and, and, not the judging itself, but, the, the, um, not, not allowing the competitors to know, like if I, if I compete, I want to know what I, can prepare for. You have to know. Right. You have to know. Right. And if, if this is universally accepted, and well, this is not the right way, or this is what we are looking for, then, man, that's why, that's why, then, then it's super easy, right? Yes. But that's why I'm saying, pass the judge. It's not only about how, knowledge he is today, but it's about to make sure, you don't fuck up this, you don't fuck up that. You understand me? The other thing is from tracking. We'll tell you another example now. One thing, which one I want to say, is that,

uh, in this world championship, it was an easy track. It was very difficult. I mean, I haven't ever seen this kind of terrain, ever. I even thought it's possible to track in this kind of terrain, but I want to really give big, big respect, bottom of my heart, to the track layers, because I have seen also, not only track, I have seen also how they did the tracks, and they have my biggest respect, and what they, what, as much they give the opportunity, to do dogs, to make the track, that's unbelievable, unbelievable, nobody can imagine. Those track layers, have been doing their everything, for us. So, thank you very much to them, that, uh, it was possible to track in that. And that's so important, man, because, you and I understand very well, how, a track layer, not, just one track layer, can change, completely, the outcome of the competition, just like that. Exactly, just like that. Track layer is, track layer, the helper, and the judge, are the three guys, who, makes everything. Yeah. that's it. There is no discussion. Sometimes, sometimes we think, oh, well, track layers, who wants to volunteer, and whatever. It's like, no, no, no, this is, this is fucking serious, extremely serious, position. They, they, they, did there, man. I cannot imagine. And I think we, we are, like, you're bringing a really good point. I think, we, and I appreciate that you're bringing it up. And, I, I really believe that we need to, be more, loud, more vocal, about, acknowledging the effort, and the knowledge, of, track layers, and appreciation, just as you pointed out. Because, yeah, it really, really, really matters. This is not a, this is not like, oh, who wants to be a track layer? Fucking no. Yeah, yeah. Somebody walking on the street, and, hey, do you want to be a track layer? Let's go. Make this shape, and, come on. Yeah. Exactly. But, another point about tracking, in this world championship, there was really, sympathetic, old, old guy, from Italy, I, I think, it was named, Barbarossa, I believe, and, maybe, I hope I am correct, but I really respect, also, this judge, because, he was, he was, he was doing judgment, about feeling, it was very obvious, and, even for him, I mean, all what the, track layers did, the tracker, the judge, need to walk. Mm-hmm. Yeah? Mm-hmm. It's important to say, and to realize, that the judge, if he want to see, really, he need to go with you, 140 times. Yes. so, this man, I do not dare, to say his age, but I believe, he's over, even 70, I believe that, and he was doing great. I mean, what is my point, for example, that, reputed, really excellent track, and, I was going, to the track, like, with the, all, okay man, show me, show me, what you can do. It's all about you. And, well, we will have experience,

let's go. And, when he started, to track, after 40, 40, 50 meters, was just the corridor, where, was the, the grass, like, closed. Uh-huh. And, I just see, he has opportunity, to cross it under, and open that grass, or just go around. And, when I saw my dog, he was going through. And, then, five steps, after that was, article, I was just saying, like, mother fucker, what is this happening? It's like, come on, where we are, we are in some, fucking jungle, and, where is this going, to be happening? Well, corridors, with water, normal, all competitions, have something, you know what I mean? But, this competition, has really, something special. Challenge. Something special. Challenge, in a special way. Challenge, challenge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, I wanna say, that the judge, in the end, told, like, very shortly, critic, and, he said, that's another thing, right? He is speaking Italian, he doesn't speak English, which, is really okay. If we have a good translator, it's alright. Yeah. But, for me, it was like this. Repi did, only, one mistake, after the corridor, he, passed that, very continuously, where, where you cannot, take the point, but after that, he did like, once, I would say, one step left, with hat. Yeah. He checked, and he came back, and, he didn't make, any, any more mistakes. I do remember, that, I was going, to the last article, and, I need to walk, and, because I'm, entering him, from left side, I need to, because he was, lying, in the, lying on the, on the, on the article, behind, and beside, of this part, was like, dead grass. And, and, I need to, cross that. Yes. And, I was like, fuck man, now, tactic. Exactly. Which way, I have to go, in a circle. So, basically, I was like, stepping, on that grass, beside of him, and now, like, what is gonna happen? And, he didn't react. I really, I appreciate, Rapper's, attitude. And, I was sure, he must, give me, 99 points, man. And, then, I go to the judge, and he said, like, complimenting. And, he said something like, well, there was saying, the translator, and he said, a little bit details, about the leash, 96. And, that's all, what I got. You understand me? This is all. so, basically, little bit details, about leash. What does it mean? Right, what are you telling me? Like, like, what are you telling me? I later, thought about it, and I was like, okay, so, Rapper is going, literally, with slack leash. You know, you have seen. Yeah, yeah. He is not tight, at all. And, for everybody, that hasn't seen, like, I've watched, you guys train, forever, all the time. So, like, as far as, understanding, and ethic, about tracking, like, Rappi, really, understands it, and enjoys it, at the same time. Like, it's, there is no, like, when you are talking, to me, about, your track, I, I have the, advantage, of knowing, what you're training,

and what the dog, is capable of. So, it's very different, for everybody, to listen to. Yeah. Yeah. That is, that is important, to realize, that there is dogs, which one go, like, really super tight, leash, little bit tight, or completely slack, which looks like, that I'm going, with the leash, like this. I, I do that, for purpose. Right. Because, first at all, I want, the judge, see, that it's really, 10 meters. Yes. Second thing, which one is like, kind of, fair play thing, my track, English, has 11 meters. Hmm. You know why? You already know why, right? Tell me, tell me. Because, it's like that, the judge, can say, it's not 10 meters. I like that. But, I would say, if they can, please, take my leash, and count it, I would say, I'm even more far, of him. You understand? But, that judge, of course, have no idea about it. He thought, it's 10 meters, so if the leash, is like this, it's not 10 meters. Right. Sometimes, because, for example, when he takes corner, direct, straight, without checking, there is a moment, which one we can count, and be tricky, there is no 10 meters, but, I, can prove, that that leash, is even longer, and purposely, purposely. Is it correct, or not? I don't even know. Is it, correct, that my dog is going, on slack leash, without any attitude, from me, without any help? Is it correct? We don't know, the shit about it. Right. And the judge, in Italian language, said, I, love your track, basically, but there is little details, about leash. So, what, details about leash? I do remember, after first article, I said, track, and, don't know how this happened, because this, this really, I cannot act this, in the training, Repi did stand up, and he took, that leash, over, his tail, and he, tracked with tail, like this. So, the leash was like, twice, around his tail, man. Yes. Basically, second, corners, like, like, after first article, until, third line, up, until, second article, where I did, mark the article, article, and then, I touched him, and, did the leash, off his tail, you understand? Yeah. And, was this mistake? I don't know, because nobody told me. In the other hand, if this was mistake, it's for me, sorry, totally bullshit. It's totally bullshit, because, he had the leash, on his tail, but by himself, and, I mean, everybody can see, on that track, that it doesn't matter, against to him. Right. It doesn't, affect him, at all. So, was this the mistake, or was the mistake, that the leash was like? I don't know. But, man, you know, you said, if Rappi, did sit in motion, it's game over. Well, if I got 99 in track, it's also game over. Yes. You know, you know what I mean? Yes. You know what is, playing devil's advocate. It basically, Yeah. Challenging you, even if I agree with you, but challenging your thoughts, right? Yeah. Give me. So,

with the, again, if you had the sit, man, done deal. No question. Now, if I am a judge, and I, again, this is the problem we have. This is the problem we have, because we, we have to understand, like if, like if the leash, has to be 10 meters, and we go to the check of the line, and it shows that it's shorter, it's not good. But it shows that it's longer, and it's good, or is it not good? You have to, you have to decide. Right. And when you leave it to a judge, the judge is assuming, that the line is 10 meters, right? Because, he's relying on the people, that are counting. Right. And this is a, this is a big failure, of, of, uh, communication, and following the rules, and you cannot focus, like, is it okay, or is it not okay? Let us know. Let us know. Right. Mm-hmm. Um, like when I'm thinking, first off, 96 points is incredible. Can it be more? Can it be less? who knows? Yeah. Right? 100%. If I'm judging, and I see something with a line, then I have that picture. What if, what if the next guy does exactly the same, but doesn't have the problem with the line? Is it the same? Is the dog influenced by the line, or is it not influenced by the line? And that's the, ultimately, that's the big, that, that comes from the experience of the judge to, to, to make that decision. Um, now, I believe there was a, what was it, a 98 or a 99 in tracking, right? Like your best track? Yeah. 97. Okay. Again, we, we just don't know, like, like, have the videos. like, like, I, I would say, I respect this judge very much. In that moment, I was basically one of the first trackers, because, I did track first day, I guess, in, fourth or fifth group. Right. So my track was basically, 15. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is like, that, still, is the first day. Yes. And you know how it is. Yes. If you do something first day, you fucked up. Yes. So I was, I was so quiet. But lately, I was just literally thinking about, and I don't want to say anything against the judge. I am just a little bit disappointed, about the translation, and to know, what was exactly wrong. Because in the end, Yes. It's a game changer. Yes. Yeah? No. As the guarding, as this. Like, I cannot agree with you more. That's it. Hopefully, the right people are listening to, the conversation, and, and, It's a fucking world championship. There needs to be translating, what he's saying. Yes. Exactly. And tell me the reason, and then we can double check. Because it, it, it really matters. It really, really matters. It matters. Exactly. It matters. It's, it's like, but man, this is the same, what I said on beginning of our conversation. It is like, somebody's walking against to me. I mean, Rippy was already in the grass, and I was after him. And I said, how much did you got? And he, 91.

And he was so satisfied. And I, I said like, do you know, where did you lose nine points? And he, I don't give a shit. I'm happy for 91. Right. You understand? And I agree with this. That's okay. But in the end, it's okay. But in the end, you have to know that. If you want to know, you must know it. Absolutely. That's it. Absolutely. Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ, man. You have to know that for what you did exactly. But this is the global problem many years ago. Not only on track, obedience and protection. Everywhere. We basically talk after. And the best sentence and typical answer is like, I don't know. And I'm saying, I would love to know. For what? Yes. If you, if you want to be better, you need to know what you need to change. This is just as simple as that. Period. No question about it. You cannot swim in the ball. No question about it. They, like, you know, I'm, I do ring sports and there is something very beautiful about ring sport. You have, the dog comes on the field. The, the judge really has a timer. He has a chronometer. It's like, okay, no, it's really two seconds too late to let go. But besides that, yes. But besides that, what happens? As soon as the critique is given, the score sheet of that judge, it's posted. It's put on the fence. Like, like truly on the fence for everybody, the people that understand the rules and the people that don't understand the rules, for everybody to see which exercise, how many points got deducted and how many points the dog got. I love that. Easy. Easy. Easy. Yeah. And that is, that is exactly giving, giving the strict rules, dog does or not. He does this or not. Ciao. In our IGP is how he does. Right. Also. Right. And that's, that's the game changer. Not only he does, but how he does. And do we know how, how it should look like the excellent exercise? Please do today. example, visual, where it is excellent. Yes. Express and explain exactly point by point. Because I will tell you now one thing. Why repeat didn't sit? It's only my fault. Because I was in the end so much, so much focused for really details. And I did in the sit emotion, super mistake. Like I wanted to have it for 100. Yes. And I lost the exercise. That's the game. Right. And I was, so, I was, I was so exciting and so extremely focused for just that 10 steps. Before I give command, say that he is walking like he has to, because I know it from my knowledge, from experience. Yes. Past. That there was so much charging, how the dog walk beside, before that. And he basically did, what did I teach him? The last trainings. He was with me. Yeah. Perfectly. But he doesn't completely react that I have still hand beside of him. And I asked him to sit.

Because normally when I call him sit, my hand is going inside. And all the stops. And I just didn't realize that. And it takes me time, time. Of course. And it was a really short time, even until the final to realize what is the problem. And then I got it. And I did after three, four days I was at home before he gets really super sick, just for, just for fun in my garden with the hand inside. And he did it without any pressure, any help. He did it perfectly. And I was like, fuck me. Why didn't I know that? You know? So it was only my fault. It's all clear. That's what I am. There is no question, but tell me why I didn't know that. I didn't know that. And I'm talking about myself, but ask the 140 other competitors. They go home after three, four years they train, they finally get it, and they go home, and they don't understand. Right. And you know what is the problem? Next year will be there another problem. Another judge which one prefer that. Yes. So what we are talking about. Exactly. Football has still the same rules. Yes. Yes. Yes. And, and, and no, man, this is just, this is amazing conversation. I don't know if we need to make like two separate podcasts and keep going on this, because it's so, so, so, so fucking important. Well, I, I want to sidestep for a moment because you're going to laugh at this just to kind of relax a little bit, both of us. So, so, so, in the last two weeks, Tarzan, all of a sudden, I say sit and he just, with his eyes like, what? I'm like, what the fuck, man? Like, literally, like what? Like, and then, I, I've been, like, up to right this moment, my sit out of motion, has a big question mark. And that's how training is. This is the beauty of us training dogs, right? I wasn't angry one second. One second. And I, man, I just keep going back to having a competitors committee that it's part of everything. Because as competitors, if you, the judges, are failing to explain what is that we need to do, that's your problem. That's not our problem. And the IGP rules at this moment are kind of like the Bible. You can interpret it in so many ways. And they all can be correct or not correct, right? Yeah. We have to come together and agree. What do we want? What do we want? It's a world-class championship. It should be like that. Yeah. Because we, at least a big majority of the trainers, you have a puppy in your training. And you're training and you're thinking this is, I'm doing the best. But then it happens that it's not what the new tendency, the new evolution is. But we don't know. Yeah, man.

But listen, you know those guys, which one shows. Man, like, I see everybody asking me before the world championship, who can beat you? You know? Right. And I'm answering very, very simply. I don't know. I am not caring about it. I am focused only on myself. I don't care. And then I will tell you, when I was not competing, I was thinking that I am, of course, normally, naturally interesting. And I saw guys, and I saw them on videos, and I said, fuck, they are dangerous. Look at them. I'm curious on the stage. Then on the stage, you show them. And you are not, I'm talking about myself. I'm not agreeing with the judging. And I'm meeting them. I'm, like, asking them what happened. Why? And they are answering me. Pick, pick, answer. Like, super shit sentence. Like, I don't know. We don't know what happened. Why the judge doesn't like this. Because, in my opinion, like, 34-year guy, it looks awesome. So, please, tell me, where is the problem? I know where is the fucking problem. We, nobody knows what is perfect and excellent, where the rules are clear. So, if we talk about to make it fair play, we have to first make it that all fucking world understands this is not allowed and this is allowed. Yes. And those details. I have read those rules. I swear to God. I have read them many, many times. And especially now after FMVB, actually, I have read them three times. And there is so many points not saying. And especially those details. Like, if the dog did, for example, super quickly and focused. And then the guy did mistake on the command, for example. It's the same points losing. Or, like, when the dog tracks on the slack leash or tight leash. What does this different? Or in the guarding, if the dog is front of the helper or side of the sleeve. There is nothing about that. Right. Bullshit. Right. What is really quickly leaked down in foran, in send out with down. What, how long the dog has really gone down. How does it really look like? Because I thought, Repi does pretty good. But the judge said, he can be even faster. And he took me half point. Okay. Let's talk now about not how this happened, but about the future. Right. So, make it clear, guys. Because we do fucking everything to make you, judges, satisfied. It's not easy, man. It's not easy. Because we have to. I know. Because if you know what to train, if you know what they want to see, you will make it happen. Or you can do the best, or you can do the best you can to make it happen. If I know what they want, I will make the best to know what they want. But now, Ivan, do you remember what you say about that favor? Friend by friend? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Isn't it similar?

The competitor is going there, and he knows exactly what the judge like it. Right. Do we want message today, like, okay, Harry Archon is on protection. Hey, man, do you remember me with my old dog? You like him. Do you like this kind of guarding? Can you tell me now? Do you want me to do that? Right. Or what do you want me to do that? Right. Or do I have to not do it as I did? And then be just like watching him and saying like, what do you mean? Right. So what is correct? Exactly. So, like, my opinion is, again, there is a big disconnect between competitors putting extreme amount and effort of training something. And the judges already have changed what they want to see, but the competitors don't want that. And now we are in a world championship, and you're like, well, that's not good. Well, why do you need to tell me in a world championship? Why can we not agree what is good and what is not good so we know what to train for? Yeah. We need to know what to train for. At the same time, we all have different, just like, again, with martial arts, you know, like, I like sambo, you know, sambo is my thing. Right. And somebody likes Muay Thai and whatever. But when we know what, even when the program is evolving and we're looking into something better, because I tell you what, like, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, and the further down you go, the training is progressively not as good, right? We didn't know. The world championship is not the place to say as a judge what is not preferable. That's not the right place. That's not the right place. Because it's not fair to somebody that trains all the time. And you can, as a judge, you can have the argument and say, well, it's in the rule book. No, the rule book is really quite left for interpretation. It's a question, Ivan, it's a question like, what motivates those to change it? Not us. Because we are not in the coming. You know what I mean? Right. What will motivate them? Is it the truly mind to be really true, truly charging? Or is it like money, which obviously are so little? Right. Because if I will be like today in my all the business and all the business partners and all the things which I'm doing in my life, like my lifestyle, and if I have to be now the guy, which one will spend the time, all my fucking time to do that? For me, in that moment, it will change. The schedule is just busy. Exactly. For what I'm going to do that, am I doing that for money? Am I doing that for people? Am I doing that for myself? Do I want to be special? What is the motivation for those guys? That's what I'm asking myself all the time now.

Like, why are you judging? Tell me the answer. Do you judging because you want to be important or you want to be fair or you get a lot of money or that? Do you doing that for legacy or do you doing that for money? Tell me. Tell me now. That's for me the game changer. If you do that for legacy, it's super cool. If you do that for money, you have to get good money. Because the more money you got, the better you will be. That's it. It's like if you do that for free and almost for free, which is really common in our sport, to be honest, there needs to be another spirit. And the spirit, I'm not sure everybody has. Yeah? So, the number one spirit is like, I want to grow every simple shit in this sport. I want to bring something which will go and people will talk about it 10 years, 20, 30 years after. I just don't know when to be part of the game. I want to take over. Yeah. I want to be here the best. Yeah. And I don't care how much they will pay me. That's number one. How many of them think like that? Yeah. Yeah, it's a question. It's like, let's say we will change the people and they will be one year good. And then second year, they start to be like, but you know, I better maybe go to the holiday. And they start to be boring. You know how it is. Not always you doing something which one you want to do. That's normal. Right. But, but I'm saying, to be honest, I'm not really afraid to say that. If I have a good motivation, I will do that. Because it worked. It worked me to do that. It's like work. It's like business. It's like, I mean, this is completely natural. People are doing something for something. Yes. There is only one of a hundred, one of a hundred stupid guy, which one will do that all the time. Because he just like it. But 99% of that, they will be there only because they need to be. Yes. And we don't need to that 99 people. We need only that guy. I, I, of course I am, you know, not that I, I, I read social media and I know what's happening and whatever. And I know Arnold had that question. He was like, well, it could be 5% higher scores. Or, or something like that, right? In, in obedience or just overall, like we, we don't need to be so hard. And I totally understand why we don't need to be, we, we, you know, we don't need to kill people. We don't need to kill people. But there is the other side that I've been many times experienced that like as a competitor. And this is the part where I would get 96 points. And another competitor gets 94 points. And basically it's two points difference. But it's really from my understanding to make the 96 and compare the 94 points. It's a very, very different performance.

It's like, it's very different categories. So I understand the danger of, well, let's give more points. And then it becomes like the other competitions. And, and, and, and, you know, many competitions, I'm sure, where everybody gets 95s and 96s and 95s and 96s. And you cannot really see because, because of the judging, you cannot really see how different, how much more effort it is to make the 96 and the 94. The two points difference is very misleading for people to think that it's the same work. Oh, it's just two points. I was very close to, to kicking his ass. No, you are not. Yeah. So there is this, you know, like I understand both sides of this. And man, it's not about number. It's not about number. You can win with three times 90. Right. That's not the problem. That's not the problem. And if there is some, another, uh, community, which one is doing this for purpose, which one is giving to the competitors super high points because they want to take them on those, like their sides. That's wrong. It's not about number. You know, it's about, you know, it's about, you know, truly explain why this guy got that. Yes. Yes. That's all. This is the big problem. It comes down to, to, to, to, really, it comes down to education. It comes down to agreeing what all of us are trying to accomplish and what is okay and what is not okay. We have like, we have like, we have like, we have like, we have like fucking fishes, you know, we are swimming in the sea and we don't know what, what time of the day some bigger fish will eat us. You know, it's like, we try, we try all the time. We try. There is nobody who can say, I'm fucking sure. I will, I will, I will get this. And that's why you also make the mistake then in the training because it affects you. Yeah. There is like, oh, here is this judge from this country and you will speak like, oh my, my God, what? This guy doesn't like that. And now because of this judge, you, you always have opportunity. I mean, it's like about you, how much you, uh, stay behind of your, uh, system. Right. But you have opportunity three months before to change it. Right. And then, and then, then you kick your ass out or you make it happen or you don't know. Gee, I cannot imagine. I have been doing so many other sports. This is not possible. That is still the same. You fucking give the goal or not. You make the foul or not. And then we can talk and discuss about little details. How much was it hard or something. But in our sport, we are still swimming in the hot water, which one nobody know how to swim. We, what we are failing to do is come to an agreement where we want to go with this sport.

For sure, we don't want to, we, for sure, we don't want to go back to what it looked like 30 years ago. There's, I, I highly doubt that anybody would disagree with that. I know many which one agree with that. Maybe, maybe, I, I, maybe in protection. That, this different is because you are in USA and I like it. It's much more modern, man. Much more modern. We, we all have our own way of training, our own understanding, our own flavor of what we like, what we don't like. And that's very cool, right? That's really, that's the only way that we can progress and, and take good pieces from everybody and evolve, right? So, this is, this is very important that we don't do the same. What, what becomes the problem, again, that starts to be, I think, clear from our conversation is, again, that disconnect of what do you want to see? And you can, as a judge, you can argue, well, the rule is clear. Well, the rule, obviously, it's not being clear enough if we are still in this problem. Exactly. So, let's sort it out. What do we want? We know we don't want a dog to be stressed. We don't want the dog to be under pressure. But we also know that in our sport, there is some element of pressure. And if you are able to train properly, this actually is very healthy. It's very, it's a very good thing. It's not a bad thing. Now, going back to why all the dogs have such a low scores, I cannot really say simply because there is no videos. And that's a big problem, again. Yes, but let me tell you one thing. Listen, you are getting better than a bodice. Look. Look. You have always opportunity as a judge, which one have experience to, let's say, healing. Okay. Healing for me is one of the really pink discipline. It's a fucking super, super, super important. And healing and the relationship with my dog is basically like first what I'm teaching a small puppy and everything. I don't know. I don't care. Maybe in one year, he doesn't know what is the sitting emotion. He doesn't know what is done. But he knows what is the heal with me. There's a cooperation and there is always an attitude. And the judge has many opportunities in the healing to charge you. Corners, style of the healing. We know. I will not talk about it. We know. Do we know? We, well, yeah. I mean. Listen. Do we know? Right. That's the question. I will now say 10 points where you can charge. Maybe I'm not enough. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't even know what is basically excellent healing, Ivan, today. Right. I swear to God. And what I want to tell you, like to help you to give a lot of thoughts because you are the master.

If we don't know what is excellent healing, man, we are game over. Mm-hmm. Because healing is fucking basic of obedience. Yeah. Okay. So if you talk about not pressure and pressure, what kind of pressure, how does it behave, what is the attitude. There is a million spectacular points which one is not saying. So I don't even know what is excellent healing today. I'm so sorry. But I only know that in FMVB, 2024, wasn't one excellent healing. That's what I want to tell you. This is where it gets really interesting. And this is where we need to, everybody needs to come and talk and decide what we want. Because of the inconsistency of if sometimes you say, well, this is excellent. And sometimes you say, no, this is not even very good. It's good. It's like, why we have these two things. Because you as judges are having a big problem that affects everybody that is training. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. And first thing is you need to come to a decision what it is that we're looking for. Don't tell me that the rules are clear. That's the best complaining. Yeah. Maybe the rules are... Always we can blame on that. Yeah. Maybe the rules are clear. But... That's not true. At the same time, clearly, everybody is lost of what you want. They will always blame on it. That the rules are clear. Yeah? You know what I mean. That's the only thing they can blame on it. Not everybody, but there is different ways of training. And... Man, it's not easy. We are talking now about... It's absolutely not easy. It's absolutely not easy, but it's... Of our sport. We are opening the dangerous temas. And I understand. And, you know, those things about what is clear and what is not clear, it's so obvious. Because we men, like you, me, and all hundred thousand million people who are competitors, don't know. Right. Right. We are the proof. Right. That it's not clear. And what ends up happening is... Competitors and trainers are... Training, thinking that that's... The ultimate thing. And then there is a surprise. And it's like, no, you don't need to surprise me. You need to tell me what we need to train for. Yeah. And on top of that is, again, like, you as judges, you can say, well, that's what we're looking for. But you must. There is no other option. You must consult with the competitors. And we need to combine our efforts to decide what we want to accomplish. I think... I think... Yep. Actually, not I think. I am pretty sure. You know. Yeah. I mean, let's say I will speculate here. But there is the thing about... And this is a very tricky, very difficult one. And...

To decide, as a judge, when you're watching a performance, what is the dog doing? Is it all kind of... Fake? Is it the dog just doing things but not even understanding why? Is there actual... Interaction or is it... I'm just doing a certain behavior that looks... That should be rewarded. This is such a difficult... Situation because... What is IGP? We can even go this far, this deep. Is IGP a sport or is it also a selection? Me as a breeder, I like the selection part. If possible at all. And I don't know if that's even possible at this point. Because training is so... You know, I mean, we have so many ways to train. I will give you an example of... There is a dog. It was last year, Malinois Nationals in the States. Her name is Trisha Harper. And she has a dog and it was a... I don't want to say... I think it was injured. Something that he couldn't compete anymore. But the dog ended up... Being like a second dog for a bunch of obedience dogs. Just so we don't do round robin and this kind of stuff. Yeah. And that dog... I... And I haven't talked to her and... You know, she... I know her. We talk, but I've never really addressed it. Which I want to and I should. That dog, man... Did... A retrieve... After retrieve... After retrieve... Like, I don't know how many times she was the... The dog in white... The dummy dog. Without any rewards. And those retrieves... Were... Absolutely... Insanely beautiful. Like, that dog just goes lightning fast... Grabs the dumbbells... Turns around... And presents it... And when he outs... He's not like... Okay, where is my toy? It's just like this... Like, you know that... Whatever he made in his mind... Or whenever the genetics of that dog are... He can do this. But many of us... Need to... Actually see how we can... Twitch the training... To make that picture the same. And here is the real... Again, speaking from a breeder perspective... And I think this is really... Far-fetched... Maybe impossible thing. But... When you see a dog that can make one... Or three retrieves... But there is this very high maintenance... To accomplish it, right? And then you have that... Dog that... Like... Trisha's dog... That just... It's genetically... This is what I do. Like, you cannot... Make him do it any other way. It's like... What the fuck are you doing? I think... Where I'm going with this... Is that... Our sport... Or...

Whatever we want to call this... IGP thing... There is also that decision... Or that thing to be made... Like, okay... Are we... Are we... As judges and competitors... What are we trying to... Demonstrate? Are we trying to demonstrate... The raw abilities of the dog... As raw qualities, right? Or... Qualities combined with training... Or... Really... Training... Purely training... You know what I'm saying? Yes, of course. I do. This is where it gets very interesting... And... How... How do you... Like... I... I truly... Don't have an answer to this... But I see it both ways... I will tell you... I will tell you, Ivan... This is the same answer... As I told you about... Like... Who is judging today... And before 10 years... Or 10 years... I truly... Believe... Like... One... Former champion... In May... Is going today... Command... UFC... Fight... And sitting there... Command... That... It's perfect... That he command... Because... Cannot do... Fight anymore... And he just... Get out of this... In Docsport... It's the same for me... Absolutely... Same line... If... We talk about... Who is deciding... Who is going to be the judge... Who is going to be the helper... It should be modern... People... And I'm saying... Again... It's not about age... But I'm saying... About the... Actual people... Which one are... In the other... Which one are now... Active... Simply... Just active... Okay... The same level... We can talk about... The same things... The motivation... Is the second... Most important... Why... Would they do that... Because... I have the... I don't even know... If I want to say... Honor... But... I had the... Privilegium... To talk with... The really... High... Possibly... To talk with... The really... High... High... Possibly... Positions... People... Which one... Talk about... Like... You know... I'm tired... I'm in this position... And... I don't want... I don't... Know... If I want to be... Next year... He is talking like that... The passion... The passion... Is not there anymore... If... If... If you're talking about... Like... Alright... Don't be afraid... To make things wrong... And say... I can't... We will change you... That's alright... Does your ego... Say another thing... Then man... That's not right... Okay... Right... That's not right... All the people about... The... The core... Of this sport... Needs to be... Actual... Needs to be... Actual... And active... And modern... And all... They have to be... On the same level... Everybody will tell you... From all the sports... There can be... 100 players... In one team... 10 players... In the team... If there is... One bullshit... It will destroy... The whole team... It needs to be... One... Same core... There is the reason... There is the reason...

Why we do that... And... If public... Is shut up... Nothing will change... Public speaking... On the stadium... Right... Does it matter... It doesn't affect them... And... I can tell you... After... After... After... Last... Protection of this... FMVB... There was a... Homebook... And... Big... Big... Big hyper... Like... I haven't been... Ever... Experienced... It doesn't affect them... People need to talk after... People need to make... Those things... Which one... We are doing now... And more and more... The more... The better one... Like... We want... Revolution... We want to do it... Well... Then... There cannot be... Person... Which one is... Basically... There... Because he needs to be there... Yeah... Yeah... Yeah... See... I don't think... Like... I... I grew up in... Communist thing... And... Revolution... It sounds very... Like... I'm against that... But I... But I... I know what you're saying... We... Agree... Upgrade... What do we want to do? We want to upgrade that... You know... Um... Going back to my dumbbell... Example... And hopefully... I don't know... Like... I mean... I wish that... This is not just you and me... I wish that... The whole IGP community... Thinks about this... Because there is this good... Two sides... And I don't know which side... I... I... I truly don't know which side to take... As a breeder... I want to take the dog that naturally just goes... Poo... Poo... But then... There is the training... Okay... And... Yeah... I don't have... Trisha's dog... I need to make... It match... What that dog does... If a judge is capable... To see... And say... Well... This is natural... This is like genetic... This is baked in the DNA... This is who that dog is... This is what we want... But this is training... Right? But this is training... And I clearly can see that this is training because... Yes... He's going fast... But... The pick up the presentation... Like there is things that tell me... I like to believe that I can... Separate most of the dogs... Of what is natural and what is trained... And I think you can do the same... I will stop you now... I will stop you now... But then... Yeah... Listen... Can you repeat the last sentence? Say it again... If you are able... To separate those... Which one are natural... And which one... Are not... Yes... Yes... Perfect... Yes... Perfect... By the way... Isn't it the World Championship of the Breeds... To bring also a better breed? In my opinion... It has to be... It has to be... It has to be... Perfect... And now listen... Maybe of this... Podcast... I will be calling like... King of the... Preferring the Women's Judges... But... I don't care... I would say it one more time... I have been... How to say... Like... Like... Yeah...

I was there just... And... There was a woman of the judge... And... I would say it again... She has the balls... And she... Uh... Said... And... The dumbbells... That... She doesn't care... That... This... Kind of dog... Is doing... Kind of sound... Before he start to go pick the dumbbell... Because... All the things about... Is absolutely insane... And... She has... Hasn't seen that... In her life... And... That... Kind of... Judge is from German Shepherd... By the way... And... It means... A lot... Because... This person... Can be even more... Interesting... To... We judge... Kind of... Like... Okay... So... Sound... Here is... I don't even know... What... Step... A little touch... Something... Basically... We are on 13... From 15... Good... You know... And... All the basic... And... All the most important... Core... The judge... Is... He's blind... He's just judging... As a computer... Okay... This wasn't like... In the rules... Which one... I'm... I'm... I'm... I'm... And... Nobody knows... This wasn't like that... So... I have to... The feeling... Is out... The feeling... The object... The... General... Feeling... Of... That exercise... Is completely out... So... We cannot even... Talk... About... In the end... That... The winner... Is the best... Talk... Which... Is basically... It was... the goal. Wasn't it? We want that fine and select the dogs which one have that. Today we have no punch. We have no courage tests. We have like super, super shitty rules for that. So how do we can select really the real one? And in the obedience, sorry man, but in healing in positions you can do really game changer by training. But in dumbbell there you see a lot of genity. There is a lot of genity. Like simply I would say my opinion about the picking and the holding must be very very visible and for the judge so clear if it is natural or training. And this judge, this woman, she was like first after really seven, eight years when I am like competing which one said I don't care that dog was found. I care of what he is doing after. Because this I haven't seen in my life. And that's it. You know, that's all. And in the end, if he's taking like for that bullshit half point it's very, very alright. right. But if the judge is coming there and he's taking for that one and half of two points because it should be not in the rules, fuck you. Right. Right. That's not correct. Believe me, if I want to. It's so confusing. It's not. This is not easy conversation. If I want to be fucking you up, you always find out. You always find out that this is not the reason why you are there. You don't have to go to be judged in world championship and fuck you up. No, I hope this is not why you have to be hard. You have to be fair. And just everybody

saying that's the same for me as the helper. I know it's all the time again and again saying, but first of all you need to have a feeling. Right. You need to bring what is there valuable. So as a let's stay with this for a moment as a helper, because it's one thing to be the helper. It's another thing to be the judge. It's another thing to be on the stadium and it's another thing to watch it on replay over and over again. Yeah. Ultimately, you as a helper know who do you have in front of you. And you can have dogs that you can have two dogs that bite very nicely full, but you very quickly because of experience understand which dog has a purpose. It's like, no, yeah, I've been trained, but I'm doing what I'm supposed to do, but let's go. And everything else looks identical. But Ivan, nobody is asking me what I'm feeling there. right, right, right, right. But that's the, the, the, this is the dilemma. This is the big question our sport is presented to. So in protection, is that dog ready at any moment to go, papa, I'll fuck you up? Or is he playing a game? He can, he can do a very nice display of aggression. He can be jumping in your face and spitting so, you know, but as a helper, you know, which dog really is like, dude, fuck that, let's go. Right? And I think this is extremely hard because our training has evolved in so many different ways that we can train and mask and create a body language to look like it. Yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah. So, so there is this thing about, and I think it also kind of goes into obedience and in tracking. And in obedience, it's like, how do you, like, if you want to breed a rapi to a female and you have one that has extremely great retrieves and recalls, but you know that that trainer is working very hard to maintain and create those, and you have that other female that you know that there is nothing to do with training because you're watching them do. Doesn't know the shit, but naturally, perfect. exactly. Exactly. And we got to appreciate that. We cannot, like, it's not fair to put the two at the same place. We can give extreme amount of credit to the trainer that he has managed to make equally good. Yep. But now, the difficult question, as a judge, how do you know? exactly. There we are. There we are, man. This is the all conversation in our podcast. How does he know? Has he been even trained by himself, that kind

of quality dog? Has he been ever trained? Listen, Ivan, we know each other very well, and I'm not afraid with big things. But I will tell you honestly now, there is 70 percent, listen, 70 percent of the judges which one have no idea how to even make this thing happen. And there is 50 percent of judges on FMBB which one are judging that, which one ever had money noise in the hand. Which one for me is like fucking bureaucracy, politic, and really sarcasm like ever haven't happened. it's like you have the world championship and the white dog is a German shepherd. It's a fucking breed malinois. We want to breed malinois. Everybody are caring like how they look like, and that's what they are professional. But about character, nobody fucking cares. The test breeding today is like pussy. It's like everybody can pass. What they are looking like, that's not the fault of character. But in my opinion, I'm getting crazy now because I'm so sick of this. But in this competition like FMBB, it's a sign day about malinois. And there is the goal. By the way, if you guys forget, I will remember, on FMBB is not only to find out the best IGP dog, it's also about to find out the real dogs for the breeding and for the future. And that's about character. Wake up, guys. It's not about how they look like. It's about character. I would say it really today, first time loud. And this shit, like dog is, his breed is malinois. The judge who is judging him, he never even had the malinois in his hand. How fuck he can judge the malinois? Tell me now. It's a bullshit. He doesn't even know how to teach that fucking malinois healing. That's not possible, man. I cannot, people are asking me and asking me, what do you prefer in this exercise? What do you prefer in this exercise? What do you do in this exercise? I cannot tell you what I prefer and what is right. I only can't tell you what I do. Right. And if it's right or not, I can say. Second typical question is like, do you prefer a malinois or German shepherd? And I'm saying I prefer the good dog. But I can tell you, Ivan, today, if I'm going to be tomorrow or next year judge, and they asking me to be judge on German shepherds, I would say like, I don't know shit about your judges, German shepherds today. I have to get years now to get experience. Maybe I will take one and I will train him and I will get into the people and then I will dare to go there and judge them. If I have to judge today, German shepherds, as I, how to say, how my attitude against me is, it's going to be disaster, to be honest. that means nothing wrong against German shepherd people. It means only that if I have to be judging them as I judge myself, they will not like me. So, first at all, I have to get to that community, to those, and maybe even take that dog. But, I mean, I had five German shepherds. I have been training them. okay? Now I'm extremely

talking about it, but there are judges which one are trained, I cannot say even those breeds, I don't even know if they have been trained. And they are judging people with Malinois, man. Right. Yeah, man, I understand this. Like, I, you know, I was saying earlier in the conversation, I bounce around the two, like sometimes I'm, yeah, I agree with that, sometimes I agree with that. As I, where I am today, and this can totally change tomorrow, I know, I mean, I think I know that talking about MMA, you have, you have trainers, you have coaches, you have a whole camps, and the coach has never fought in a ring, ever. But he understands the game, he understands the psychology, he understands what he has to give you in order to win without any experience inside the ring. thing. But, so, this is not, this is out there, this is possible. I think we don't, we shouldn't stick to, well, have you done it, and are you doing it today? it really comes down to how good you are today, being a competitor, or being a judge, or being a helper, or whatever. Like, you can, I don't care if you've been a helper for 20 years, or you are this young kid that has talent, and got just three months of education, and you're doing amazing. if you're doing amazing, why would we stop you, right? I, just like with the women judges, I'd like to have all doors open, so we can select the best helper, the best tracker, the best judges, the best, regardless of what's your past. I don't care about your past. I personally don't. But, you have to demonstrate quality. man, but, is it the quality points? You know what I mean? It's like everybody who are outside will watch the competitors with the points, the results, and they will say like, oh, 87, shit, that was shit dog. Right. Maybe he did one mistake, and like, all the obedience was perfect. You know, I'm actually now, I figure it out, I'm super allergic for the numbers, because I don't think, in the same moment, I'm allergic for the words, like, a very good high, or kind of shit like that. It should be clear. It should be clear. And as I'm saying, I'm not really clear even today. Critics cannot be taken lightly, and they have to be, like, if you're judging and you cannot give a critique, this means you cannot justify what you're looking for and why you're giving points or taking points. Period. Period. We need to hear you. And maybe we can be upset, but once we hear you, it's like, oh, okay, maybe he has a point. Or, we're like,

what the fuck? What are you talking about? But we need to allow the judges to talk. There is this delicate place. What do we are we trying to reward the high level of training? Are we trying to reward the natural abilities of a dog? Or are we trying to reward a combination of both? And that becomes a fucking science. This is not easy anymore. This is not easy. And all of us need to get together and educate and learn what we want to do. I mean, look at this thing. I'm doing that 20 years. And it's not that much as you, but it's a lot. And in Czech country, what do I remember was all the time like, okay, the IGP commit is from five people. Okay? Just an example. Sure, sure, sure. And everyone. And those five people are for the IGP and practice and everything around them. That's like we call like the practice commit. okay? Who trained? And I do remember maybe like, I don't really know if it's like for two years or five years, I don't care, but I remember maybe four or five teams. All the time, man. All the time, man. And there was twice. One guy, which one is like my hypothetically father in Doxport, Martin Pesha, which one I really respect mainly from Czech country. And he was there when I was beginning and he's there now again when I am 34. And in that time, he was the boss of this commit. Today, he's just a member. And in that time, when he was boss, he told me like, man, I will get in out of this because nobody understand me there. and I'm the only one, maybe maximum one guy understand me. And I cannot do against those three, nothing. I'm so clired because they don't understand my mind. Now, he is there again. And I'll tell you why. Because he is there with his same level team. After 20 years, we have first time ever in my life, really commit which one have a sense. And it's very obvious in the competition. Like, for example, I'm talking about eight dogs instead of six dogs to change in the row. You understand what I mean? To have not six, but a couple of eight four years. because I experienced that once in FMBB 2019, and I like it. And I think it's so cool for the dogs, especially for them, because they can rest. It's not normal, man, especially in the final in FMBB after really 25 degrees and more go after 40, 50 minutes again to the protection. It's so shit. It's about life. And I'm fighting with that. And now was the championship of the Czech championship quali for FCI, and they did eight dogs. I did from the whole stadium, only one

applause. Nobody understood me. Nobody, everybody were watching like, what is this stupid guy doing? But it was absolutely perfect. And many more things. I just want to say that it's about, of course, team. And I believe that we didn't ever have better comment in Czech Republic than we have now. Because they really, all of them, brain dogs still. They are very, very all the time active. All of them are international judges. all of them, you understand? All five are in the same moment. And there is different age, like 10, 10, 12 years. Right. Perfect. It's perfect. No, no question. But then we do have comment of FMBB. and there is maybe one or two active of them. The other two guys are bureaucrats and one of them doesn't even train this. So where are we at? That's the core, in my opinion. Everything starts somewhere. So if you are ahead of something, which one you need to improve, you need the team. or you need to have the main world. You need to decide it alone. But if you are the head, you need to choose the right ones. Otherwise, as Martin said 20 or 15 years ago, I cannot do nothing. I'm there for nothing. Whatever I say, they just split it out. And this is where we as a community worldwide, the people that understand that we can have disagreements, we can have completely different ways of training, we can like certain picture more than another one. But then, what needs to happen is we need to come together and decide what is the ultimate picture that we want to see. Because when we know what is the ultimate picture that we want to see, everybody's training is going to change in some way. Because we know what we want to see. the conversation is because of that. It's not because somebody hasn't trained dog in 20 years. It's not because somebody favors a certain person. It's not it's because we all have different ideas what the sport or the breeding combination of the two should be. Until we come together and decide what the fuck do we do so we can all prepare, this problem is not going to go away. It's not going to go away. There needs to be international meeting. All the countries have to send one, in my opinion, at least maybe three persons, which one are the ambassadors of the countries. They have to have a meeting for three, four days, serious meeting about rules, where it's like one leader which one will say opportunity and everybody will walk for that. The main walk will be in the rules, that's it. Another thing, then another

meeting where all the people which one have to prove they are in Club of Malinois, they have to wall the comment of FMBB. That's it. That's it. That's like a president. But if somebody has a Rottweiler, if somebody has a Rottweiler and can understand dog behavior and training, I don't have a problem if they understand. Yeah. There is a Malinois, there is a Rottweiler, they are different. But Malinois people can have problem with that. He has a Rottweiler and he is a wall thing of this. Yeah. I don't give a fuck either. I care more of the handler. I don't care what dog he has. I can tell if you're judging good or not judging good. And I don't care what's your past. I don't care what breed you're in. You can have Yorkshire Terriers. I don't care. But you better be a top when it comes to it. Here is the question. I think a very important question for everybody. How much do we want to emphasize on the two things? As I said, excellent training that in a lot of ways masks the disadvantages of a dog versus excellent dog with not so good training and then an excellent dog with excellent training. How do we separate these three groups at all? Do we care or not? Tell me. Tell me. Tell me. In your opinion. How it will be? For me as a breeder, I think we need to, and again, I might be completely off, but I'm speaking from breeding dogs and caring about what I want to breed to. do. So, for me, it's of utmost importance that the dog has the natural abilities, that this is not accomplished by training. Of course, training plays a role. You have to reinforce it. You have to punish. You have to do training, but there is this natural genetic predisposition. This is who that dog is. That's what's very important to me. Cheers. Yes, my man. I think if, and I have, trust me, I don't have the answer to this. This is, this is really complicated, and this is why I think we all need to come together and hash it out and talk about it and figure it out how to move forward, because we need to find a way. There is two things. The first one is we need to stop this bullshit about, well, now it's our turn, so fuck you, we're gonna give our guy points. No. No. Like, stop this. Like, once and for all, let's stop this, because this is, like, we should not be doing this. And the second one, which is more complicated, is, who are the judges and how do we even agree on,

is it for everybody more important to show, well, this is the true nature of my dog, or, well, no, this is my excellent level of training. Which one, which one a judge will reward, you know? Look at this. I was, like, saving this for the really super moment. Look at this idea. I don't know. Honestly, as I know you, you have this idea as well in your mind a million times, but, you know, we have points in IGP, right? we have 100 points of the examen. Is there kind of sympathy points? Is there kind of character points? Why do we have only points for the exercises? Why do not we have the points for the entertainment, for the attitude, for the natural things, for the public station people? You know what I mean? Like, we do have only 100 points for the exercises, but there is not another expression of how the dog is. Like, in the end, I will imagine you go for obedience and you are getting one point for exercises, like 94, and then you are giving another for the attitude, for the expression of the handler, or something like that, work of the handler, than for the natural talent, or if there is something really special, extra points as well, which one needs to be named? You understand me? What I mean? What is my point? Another thing is also public, because public is like, there is 300-400 people, it is not only about which country has more people, man. I know it. Right. People are today much more general, much more objective, objective, than the judge. Right? So, what about to bring there another judgment? You know what I mean? I don't think the crowd on the stadium understands what the competition is about. I really don't think so. I really don't think so. I think the crowd and, excuse me, everybody, but that's just my opinion. The crowd likes and favors somebody that they train alike. It's the same picture. But is that same picture what we're trying to accomplish? That's a different thing, you know? so I really don't, I don't want to go into politics here, but I will very just briefly give you an example. I don't think everybody in a country should vote for who the next president in the country should be because you have no idea. You don't even understand anything. You don't even know what countries like. you have absolutely zero idea to have the right to vote. And this is in some ways how I feel about the public

or the competitors that you adopt a certain style of training and now you think that this is the way we need to do. I really don't think that's right. But that's again something to be this is the lack of education because everybody that trains comes on the field and gets judged and they're showing the best they can believing that that's what the judge wants to see. but a lot of times that's not what the judge wants to see. Of course not. Of course not. So we have I mean again as vague the rules are like we have you know we have this whatever five points for attitude five points for the precision position five points for focus for attitude like you know when man I just think that 100 points is too little. Tell me. For all those things why they did create half points of course because it's not even possible to get this all shit together. All these things what I said. The half points is kind of ridiculous. You have to make up your mind. It's either 70 or 71. Like what is this half point? I mean it's a game changer because you know skating how this is named in the Olympic game. Like they get the seven judges and they show the points how do we call that? Yeah the figure skating. You know it better. Right. Yeah. When they do that there is always like judgment they give the points and all the judges are separate if I'm correct for the specific stuff. So somebody is giving for the entertainment somebody is giving like for the decoration somebody is giving like how they look like somebody is giving for the practicing exercises. We do not have that. That's why I'm saying 100 points is too little because there is big difference even and I will be now like a stupid guy when I'm going to watch our sport and again obedience for example where it's like happening the best between handler and dog where you can affect dog mainly I will judge also handler not only the dog but it does of course they're trying to judge together the couple but in my opinion 100 points and these half points is not enough to judge them correctly if we want to really know what was correct because if we go there very deeply man you are in 70 or you are in 141 so I mean points so that's why I'm saying like maybe I'm crazy but like to give like points for the exercises as we do then points for how they did together and something something what I mean about public in my opinion is that public of course of course always can effort and affect the judge because now we like him but what if there is like only like three

four judgments which means in the end you plus three scores or four then in the end you can you can probably just just spread it out you don't need to even take it but if you only take points for what we are doing now in my opinion what I really figure out they those judges cannot say exactly what they want to say because there is no mathematic for that they cannot count it in the end they need to take because then we need to from hundred points split it's the point for maybe five or six because the part of exercise for example in healing has like in my opinion stuff of the like basic positions stop turns running slow healing how the dog walk what is the what is the attitude there how the handler is behaving and look at me it's eight now I can add three more you know what I mean and it's ten approximately things about healing so I can add three at least three more so if we're talking about free healing is the dog heavy leaning is he free is he contact is he just looking at the clouds does it matter like all this needs to be understood and this can change training right yes and now I say does the dog have ears up tail up does he walk regularly these things are not able even stay so I mean if we can do somehow 200 points or I don't know I know I'm just shooting you know I'm not thinking I'm just saying spontaneous or we can have like two judgments like one is for the technical things another one is like for how does it look like because if we talk about natural things this will be the biggest game changer right because everybody see the dog wants to kill the dumbbell or the dog is ! I think we need to do part two I think we have a lot to talk about man I think I don't hold on there we go I was saying I think we definitely need to do part two because we still have a lot to talk about and it's super interesting and maybe we get this one out and have people think and talk and we definitely do another one because this is what we need to be doing we need to be talking and we need to not to rush it we need to think what's up you know exactly like I guess a few things to kind of on my end to close up with the one is like are we are we how much the selection program is important for us anymore and is it at all and how much is it sport or should it be both

are we recognizing you know what emotions and is the dog free understanding what to do because everybody is talking about emotions and whatever but emotion doesn't mean your ears are up or your ears are down this is a much bigger conversation than that then you know we have dogs with self control and we have dogs that are very uneasy very restless in their performances they just like they're just responding and you know like they're not confident in they're just doing things mechanically without understanding and I think this is where the I would agree with judges that are hard that are you know I would disagree with Arnold where we give well if we give more points to everybody but we need to decide what we want man I understand what you mean but look at this just last thing and last thought about this topic 100 points are 100 points for exercises each exercises have basically 10 points or something like that yeah sit in a motion has five in the future hopefully they will stay what they decided again 10 points which I really love they will change A frame they will change something which I really love because it's so obvious that the comet has been changed and people who are deciding now about FCI are really people on the right position I really like it I would say when I have been kid and I had the first dog he has been not prey drive dog at all and I have been always watching people which want to take the ball under the arm and the dog was walking like that and I was dreaming about it literally and I was thinking like this is healing you know today in the highest level in world championship everybody walks like that it's not true not everybody walks like that even all of them should be all of them supposed to be like in the prey and all of them doing that for the reward you know what I mean the point and now is like super much different between dogs which one just walk or which one walk for something like in protection as you said they are ready for the next step or did they just bark in healing did the dog really walk with the attitude or he just walk because he must do it is it I will say it even I will add to this is it is it just this mechanical kind of display or is it a true working together right exactly and this is most important for me for example yeah right it's much more important than some other thing and if you have to judge really like as you said it's about what we want if you have to judge I mean it's super difficult now I will be protecting judges to judge correctly technical things attitude from the handler how he leads the dog how the dog act

natural things from the dog in one fucking exercise of the 10 points Jesus Christ this is super difficult in my opinion today judges get out of this and they are judging only technical things technical things there is missing and keeping completely taking fuck off the natural things we we have this is not the end we need to we need to get back to it and do it one more time but what I think is I'll have Eric make this public first and maybe we get some responses and we get like but we need part two we need to keep talking this cannot end we keep talking ! because it is so important and just to just to like I do need to give my take on this like I I respect Oli I actually not now but I mean I congratulate him of course I can congratulate him for winning he wins but you know I also message him I'm like dude how do you teach the healing just as I would talk to you how do you you know like there is there is always this interest and we always collaborate and we we have to remember that ultimately we are all in the same we like it or not we are all trying to do the same thing and we need to improve and the same with every single well not yeah I know that a lot of the judges are not necessarily making a favor they just have a certain picture what they like but the problem is we all need to agree on that picture exactly that's it so let's go for part two okay but it was super cool to talk to you man and see you finally ! maybe get your girl and come for a week just on vacation yeah I think so just for a week like right now you have no idea how cool it is I am not afraid of how weather let's go let's go man okay Janie thank you part two coming to to to to to to to ! Thank you.