Training Without Conflict® 팟캐스트 에피소드 29: Edgar Scherkl

that that's a sign that I don't know and I don't think maybe it's a funny story you know you know let's see I'm ready no um for sure it was a little bit like this I every time want to have a dog but my parents say uh you know when you became a teenager you don't take care about the dog and and my parents are coming from from a little bit they they fly the sliders I saw them so um I was all the time on on on the little airport for for the gliders until I was 15 years 15 16 years then I get a dog I also was flying but in the moment I get a dog it stopped immediately and then it was really funny because I was thinking okay my dad has a little bit the Panic of dogs so um I met a guy we were working for him and he said okay I go with you to a breeder and there was um some puppies I think they were so eight eight weeks old and really super and everybody was playing and beside was a 12 week old female she sit there in the hole and don't come up and say oh this is nice this I want to have and so I stopped dark spot what breed was that it was in oh my God no braid braid like a yeah a German Shepherd it was a German Shepherd female and um I I do with her my my first igp 3 was 196 and 13 points in protection I tried to do it the second time but it don't work and so I make more or less 60 times FH Mr dogs yeah yeah so and then and then it goes on and then it became then I became a after this I have a doberman a Rottweiler and then I come to the Malinois so so but you pretty much right away you got the feel of the the dog sport world I have in this time we have a really I think we had had a good trainer he was coming from from boxing and um the important thing what he uh teach was to be to be honest and to be loyal so and it was so amazing that he exactly know when I can put the leash off in the free healing for me it was amazing in this time so that my dog don't go away and follow me it was nice yes oh that's funny and then how did um so you went through a few different breeds and and what what how did you stop the damali now what how did that happen um I was I do happy work in two German championships in in this time it was not this vdh for all breeds because it was in the sport club it was in this time was dhv and um so it was two times Helper and then I met forca reader in this time and um he was also competing with his dog and and in this moment we got in contact and yeah and then the story starts yeah you know then I became running go into the club became directly was uh HEPA and for for Brie it was a master for not master for breeding but I start this to

select Docs so the DMC already was formed right yeah yeah it was uh the first the first uh our first chairman was Peter England and he was a a long time and he was leading the club um but yeah no I'm in the same situation if you do it for a long time then you need to stop sometimes it's like it is you don't can do it until until the end because it's um time is changing yeah times are changing for sure always and and and also the passion starts to yeah the motivation was higher in the beginning yes of course I mean between him and and Volcan I mean that that's pretty much how as far as I know how Malinois just came into Germany in in you know everybody was like I I want to have one of them and I I think it wasn't even as easy to to get a good Molina at the time but people started to really pay attention right it was in this time was a was a lot of Belgium and and Holland blood what we have yeah and it was in the beginning like this a topic was became they put it from some places and then they get the pedigree it was like it is it's a long time ago but in this way it begins here that's right this funny situation when we go to um I need to pick up a dog for some guy in uh in in Belgium and when I was bad hansenburger he said okay look I we go to a farm then you open three doors and from Three Doors coming three three crowds of puppies they come together and say oh this is and then you say okay this need to be here this should be there and let's go there so in this time it was like this but the dogs were not bad yes I remember this time so I I that's how I got into it with with Luke vanster brush it was a yeah when I go back in time the same thing I think now it became a little bit too tight it's a little bit too much Administration this it it's is there too much rules in in all the things and I also make some mistakes and go too much into this site I mean we it's a natural as long as we keep trying and keep thinking being aware and going you know finding the finding the mistakes and and finding ways to get back to the roots if we need to or move away right but we always gotta try man I I am like there's just questions in my head right now and I don't know I don't know where to start you know so I I I know I'm gonna bounce all over the place and that's okay how did the how did the what was the reason for the kyotong for the DMC like that's something that we always hear but like when how did it what what what made the reason for it um the idea was um selection for for a dog who can do a little bit more than than we expect in the sport and that that we say okay something is

extra that we can use for breeding this was I think the idea so this was the main idea but then it goes more and more to yeah to a little show more or less it was it was good it was like uh okay it was like an old Rome the people need this game now they need the game that either Gladiators and they need that to see okay and and it was in the beginning like this when a dog passed this this girl it was like something extra yeah really proud about it because we have a normal breeding test and then we have this girl so more or less it was like hardcore yeah fighting in the cage something like that right and in the beginning because I I of course pay attention to and it seems like you in the beginning that you're on like you had more freedom to to see oh I can explore a little something here with that dog you had that freedom to wear later on it became very more strict where you had to do the same thing and even if it became a little harder harder to to say of that dog is really good or am I wrong no you're all right it became more and more I became a system and when you when you go a system then it's able to train in the system the thing was a little bit that it was not anymore able to work in the suit in Germany right for a period of time and and for me every time was really important to have this to have this communication with the dog to to do the fight with the dog but when the dog was good also to show that the dog was good you understand what I mean yes so you go into the fight and you show that in the beginning when you can do it that he became the winner that he is a winner and then we get another generation of of helpers who are doing this and they were more technical they make it more they make it not so much with a um with the brain thing they make it more with a body right not not enough feeling in there no it's not it's more that it 'd be like a technical but not the thing that you go into the dog into the brain of the dog this was a little bit maybe not a lot of people can do it but but to see and make this communication with the eyes yeah yeah I just thought the mental the mental pressure put and take away right yes and for mental pressure it's sometimes it's more static and sometimes it's a little bit more to to go more on the frustration side a little bit like that that's right and that's where every dog can respond on either more more direct or more but when the people are watching and they're like well you're doing this to that dog but you're doing different to that dog and and that becomes the problem right and then you have to kind of start to make it more of a unified like a standard that's what we

can do and now everybody can prepare a little bit uh this is not this was not the the idea the idea was okay you can prepare for the small test but for the for the curling it was in the in the end was like this is freestyle yeah you know when I when I watched like I don't even know how it does work the VHS type times but I would watch them and and they used to be way back like you know the the one test with the the guy sitting with the newspaper and but then you start to see the dogs they know what's coming so they're they're like you know it's the surprise is not there anymore and now now you it becomes um so how did you guys um start to like how how I guess in the breed how did the breed do you think evolved in Germany because of the theorem after all this yes I think it's it's not so important I think it's not so important um which is strange how nature maybe I'm a little bit frustrated me I can explain it a little bit because the if you became more and more if you put it more and more in in a box and and give no space around in this moment then you have then then you create a little system and this became more than you have more stress also with the people because something every time goes a little bit wrong and and then the people say oh this was a little bit different from here and that was a little bit different from there but what they want in the end they want to make to have a to have a good good uh test for good results for the dog it's not interesting what the dog really is they only want to have a good result for the dog and this is a little bit the problem so we go a little bit away from the honest way we became a little bit more like and then when you see this during the years and you say okay like it's not anymore so important interesting it's not the most important on the other side our society is crazy our Germany became crazy completely crazy because of the animal rules and everything and it's a little bit more so maybe one example if if somebody really make may make pressure to to to kids or or to a woman it's it's then that it's not so so they don't punish you so hard if you do it to a dog you understand what I mean and this is completely strange yeah yeah so anyway it's it's say that then I I we should say this uh like you've been I mean you've been I don't know how for how long you've been a judge yeah I don't know it's been a long time but I think I think it's nine I I think more or less 1990 9 or 1998 something like that yeah and and you've judged pretty much any big championship in Germany many times you've judged at least two three times fmbb you've been supervisor um you you were at the FCI commission

are you still at the fmbb yes you are right so when you talk about judging and evolution and times changing like you I'm just giving that background to to the people that listen because it's important that it comes out from experience from a long time experience and and it's important to be noted um but yeah the sport if it's a sport or whatever we want to call it it is changing it is changing and and how much like how much influence somebody has to where the sport is going how is changing like how do we make decision where to go forward this is a good question this is a good question I think we have one huge problem we had too much individuals that a little bit too stubborn to build a community so it's the it's when you go to a competition like how it works in a competition the most of the time the most most of the time the people are ah maybe look what he has and what they have and blah blah blah blah blah in the end but it's not that they that we have that we say okay this is a line here we can follow and this this we can do I think this is for for the problem have have a lot of thoughts the main problem is that the people who are leading leading in the in the sport um who makes the politics you mean like yeah the FCI commission Power Wave really far away from from the practice and most of the time they have a career on this political way they they don't have spent so much time in the mud of trekking right in obedience and the frustration and in the protection and and all the things what this is so much what you need to do and in this moment if you don't if you don't have this if you don't need to work hard for that then you then you have less respect for that what the Dog Handlers are doing right yeah this is a interesting conversation and I know sometimes people don't like me when I talk about this but whenever I talk with competitors and and quite often we feel like we we don't get like our sport doesn't get defended and protected we always bend down to whatever the next demand of some organization is and and it just seems like if we keep going like this it will never end and in some years from now maybe we are all doing agility who knows who knows yes but look um if you make a mistake or if somebody make I make a lot of mistakes and I really every time I need to pay for it but then the people use it they use it for personal things and they don't think what is coming after that if they put videos Etc and and you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah of course this is a the only thing what I need to about where I was a little bit um expressed also expressed was uh when

when the when the things happened with the video from Ukraine then um a lot of people okay okay and a lot of uh people want to punish me in FCI of course and then we have also the discussion in fmbb and I was really uh impressed when Yuan say um a high tree catch a lot of wind so this is the end of the story this is the end of the story and they look from another point for another point of view and I'm really happy that we have in this fnbd says commissions and that commissions are responsible for the judges and the commissions are only every member is from another country and we have people inside who are really trained dogs and really have acknowledgment about dogs and on the other side also it's an open open discussion we can fight against each other but not in a personal way you know right right right no that is okay arguments are important to be had you know so ffdb for me is in this time uh a little bit more my place which is really good but we still when I mean we fmbb still has to follow FCI uh regulations and rules and everything uh um and I guess my question now is the the Hot Topic of the year as a competitor as a long time competitor as a three or four times how many times you have won three or four world championships for for fourth time wheelchair normally five but this was all your world cup but you know when the first quarterback the first time was I win the the first competition but then and yeah [Laughter] I love that I love that that was uh well I get goosebumps just thinking of it yeah when I say I wasn't here nothing I need to put my glasses up and say hey what's going on but it happened of course of course that's you know it's a roller coaster but so just for for everybody that listens four times World Championship with three different dogs two two two one only win uh three times uh okay okay um because you I mean you had a very good run with him I I somehow thought that you you also won uh um well not World Championship but European but I guess no and yes look in the European in the European Championship I was place number three and and trailer was winning because um he makes super points on the field that was funny to have a 98 in obedience with this kind of talk and 90 protection was okay 97 in protection but um he missed one article so and I have 92 in tracking so as well is this something I can't win but it was a big the the good thing was we start with the European Championship we start with the Monday nights with the European Championship yeah and uh this was I think this wasn't a big a little bit the beginning and also folka pushed this a little bit and this time we have good connections

also also in our bidding tests we have a ring hyper from France he also was a martini he also was in the final in uh in the in the border of Belgium and France I don't know exactly which one out of the out of all of your dogs this is a stupid question kind of because I get asked this too and I never have a good answer but do you would you have a like a favorite dog of the ones who competed I know they're all different I know everything but like yes look look um I think Aqua was a little bit I get him and and he was educated with Aku he uh he was educated and then I get desert desert was a dog who were in you know it was a little bit old school training and he can take a lot of pressure this dog was in in this case it was really rough yeah and and and Caiman was yeah Canon was Cayman you know it was you know when I it was a little bit funny how how to get this dog uh when uh I think it was it was seven weeks seven six or seven weeks old and then Marcus was Marcus was calling me and say ah Maybe here's a dog for you I say come on I think there are only two two and and uh and the female and I think they they are sold yeah maybe we can talk and then I talked I talked with him it was Costas and and he has the name of of uh Kim hey class uh breeding this time it was his first breathing and um yeah and then you say yes of course you can get a dog and you have a first pick so I go down with with my life and and when I come in I see the dog it was it was like one second and say this is my dog it was no test nothing it was like and the feeling was good yeah I think this was my favorite dog yes of course and at this time it was nice because we have a good before also good community of training a good good people around who helps this was nice time was this group yeah that was uh that was a live concert man one of the best helpers we had uh this was a special time that's kind of where I really got to know you and Marcos and serpi and everybody like like on on a different level besides the competition you know yeah this was nice last time but that's how it goes we we you know we stay so long in the game that it's normal sometimes things to keep changing and hopefully they keep changing for better and you know like I mean you and me we we've been for for so many years we've been everywhere still not talking to talking to whatever but time goes by and we get an appreciation of what we do you know like that's that's important I think now it's time to stop the mistakes we learn enough and now it need to be a little bit to have to have a little bit to have fun and and and to be open and honest I think this is more important than if if some something

don't we don't like we can say to each other I think it's easy and then it's done it's not a personal thing but it's not a sign that we're getting older yeah yeah let's say also now when we when when we became a little bit more wise this game is over right right now tell me and again like from from being a world championship numerous times from being a helper at World Championships and and bunch of different competitions from being a judge at World Championships and all over the world including here like you no how was it I can't remember now you were the helper on the our first awma championship that we did and since he was a judge exactly yes that was his story to be made what is your take on the ticket during when we took it out what do you think is it possible to evaluate a dog now like what do you think a helper can do like what kind of instruction you would give to the helpers for next year or or where is this like I want to hear you talk about this because it's always very it's a very hot topic and I know I know the stick hit when we have this bamboo this was not very nice this was not very yes he used to live like blisters on the dog yes of course this was not very nice um then when we have the other stick it was I think it was a little bit more this the the stick only works when you have the possibility also for the mental pressure the impression otherwise it's only boom boom and when you look now it came the time when the the help of work became more a sporty way it was important every time to start on point a to run to point B and it need to be for every Everything need to be the same and if the dog in and and also the the the the form where the help I have the anger where the help I have the sleeve it was not able it in when when the angle was a little bit more like not more the power to stop the helper or something like that so it can happen that you can put a dog from A to B but on the other side we don't have the the real mental pressure to the dog in this case this is a part of sometimes putting the dog on the feeds sometimes to go a little bit over and and have this kind of questionable freedom for the helper to read and in and decide a little bit a little more freedom right yeah yeah but look now it's a little bit like this the competitors there on the outside say ah look you go 20 centimeters more than with my dog and normally success if the dog want to if the dog want to escape to the left side you go to the left side if the dog want to escape to the right side you go to the right side yes but in this form what we have now what it became created it's not any more possible no

and when things go in some form it's difficult to put it out out of this phone yeah and sometimes you see also that the helpers are looking where they need to run it's funny the daunting communication is not in conversation with the dogs they're in conversation with their points right it's like it is [Music] um I also think you only can make a really good helper job when you are able to train dogs to a to a level I think then you have a little bit acknowledgment what to do on the other side you only need to have a sporty body to do it yeah that's a very good point and yeah look how you want to to get this this Instinct what you need in this moment when you go really in in a fight with a dog this is maybe maybe you have it it can be that you have it inside a little bit or maybe you can teach it a little bit but you need to have something where you can go in the opposite of something right you understand what I mean yeah when you when you are able to when you when you have the power to go to go against something yeah yeah I mean that very good example they're good for politics that's true it's not good for politics the the example you get with you know like um I don't know what I had a Hari archon on a podcast few podcasts ago and we were talking a little bit and I I had this idea that even the helper even should have the freedom not to go so fast from point A to point B because it's it's over and you just kind of you know the dog can just grab and hold on and it's but if you slow it down with some dogs you can really Expose and show something more or if the dog how some dogs are pulling you trying to stop you but maybe they're not trying to stop you you should as a helper be able to have the freedom to say you know what I'm coming at you you cannot avoid me right and these are the kind of freedoms that you're mentioning right now probably goes back the same the same difficulty with the Kyron how you know you had to become more and more uniform to where you don't have so much freedom and then the evaluation goes down maybe let us jump one point back to curl what we see on a girl on a cone we see only a few elements in a short time when we have sport in our spot when we have in our spot for not for the starters not for the club competitions yeah but for the high-end competitions when we have in the high-end competitions when we have real tracking fields when we look to obedience what is a little bit more like I don't say natural but a little bit more like okay there is a communication there is the the main parts of the exercise the dog understand maybe one example in a port what you see in a pot okay speed speed speed but what

we want to see is that the dog present and want to give something away this is the main point so speed is something it's nice it's good for the public but this is not the idea of the airport and in protection is a little bit the same so when we now follow a dog for for a long time we see him in a b c and then we see his quality but that what we expect like a dog who can go to competition sport dog or whatever right I talk also with the people who are using talks for power yeah for police or for something else for really use dogs for finding uh explosive drugs etc etc etc and they say we have a little bit of problem also with a dog that they uh that they are really ever able to smell and we see it in some breeds that we have that the dogs have problems in this way and so we I think we need to think about all this what we are doing and and what the people are doing they go to a dog with world champion in this case it's also all right when they do it it's also all right when they do it when this dog can became a world champion on the other side it's more important what are doing the puppies from this dog and this is a little bit what we don't have it we can talk until tomorrow right how is different like um the the fmbb has its own preparation and vision for the judges right to some extent I mean you still follow FCI rules but but you do have your uh fmbb judges meetings and and stuff like that correct or no yes we have a commission with uh five members six six six or seven members now I don't know exactly [Music] um and then this commission we talk about the judges and we want to have we want to have a list a list from drugs if we can use and the idea is a little bit like not only the Dog Handlers need to select himself to go to the competition also the judge need to do the same and when we when we see sometimes that the judge is going in in a say it now polite in a political way then we don't want to use him anymore yeah because like if you put some percentage how many judges including FCI and a wsvn everywhere like how many percentage of the judges you think actually are very good for the sport that that because of them the sport can maintain or improve do you think how many do you think and I think we have we have a few good judges and from this few good judges we have also some percent who are not political which is very hard nowadays yeah yeah it's I think it's very hard I think it's very hard and the problem is in this case when you know the system when you know that this is normal when you then go to a championship and

you really judge look to the dogs and say okay this a leg or this is more or less what we expect from a dog then sometimes you get a little bit problems with the audience because you know this this humans is every time the same they adapted sometimes and then they think it's normal they think it's normal and then if you are in on the other side so and a judge make a mistake every judge make mistakes it's it's this is this is normal when you have 100 dogs when you have only five percent then you're really good really good this is why I I am a judge and I I just don't do it because I don't think I'm my brain works this way like I I don't think I can stay focused for so many dogs at the same time I think I'm gonna my brain's gonna go off into some text message or something you know like it takes a special ability to just don't know to stay focused all the time it's not easy I have a question when you train a dog you are you are nervous or you do it by your feeling yeah good question I just talked about this that's so funny so I tell you I do it I think I do it totally like probably 99 by feeling okay and and I almost don't stress in this way you became stressed in this way no no so the same ways you need to do it as a judge you go as a field and you are not you don't need to have oh today this is what I want to see no you go and there are different dogs different pictures different education and this is possible that it is like that and then you go and say okay and and when you became this was also my mistake in the beginning you go too much in detail so yeah too tense and you don't want to miss anything and yes forget it what can happen nothing so but it takes time you need it's like dog training you need to you need to do it to do it to do it and then it became a little bit better it's like it it says now I'm really relaxed in this way yeah man that's crazy what about the same question for you with the training how how do you you you stay more in the in the moment right or what In This Moment In This Moment um I I have a nice talk really nice talk but I don't train so much one case Okay uh the other is a little bit it's a little bit yes it has a accident but this is only one one side of the story on the other side it's not so much motivational right now there and um on the other side uh you know you now my son is 14 years old no and and as and and my daughter also she is working in the in my company she make her exam now and now I hope she begins to study her boyfriend maybe her man also is working and so normally I want to say I stopped with the company but so I need to work a little bit more anyway I do it

um and we change also a little bit the house now I'm here in uh an old train station from 98 but it was it's really nice it's like a little Villa and a little on the landscape a little bit 30 kilometers far away from from the company and and Claire's riding and she's not so bad in this way and Jason begins now with wakeboard it's close by his close C six seven minutes from here so I spent a little bit time with that on the other side I go every morning and every evening I go bicycling I go with a young dog how old is not three three and a half okay yeah I have it for Spain um the castle Simon and I I was looking when I was judging in Spain and I saw the father and her mother and we became talking like this and then you say I make a bridge and say oh maybe I want to have a dog and then Corona begins in millimet Corona begins I go and takes a dog and after the Bars were closed yeah it was crazy yeah anyway and uh and you know I also have the dogs until they die so I have a 30 year old female as a Cayman daughter but but she I only do this for here for the house I have Myron where I was in France but he in 2016 he has problem with his knee and his meniscus is out and I have Nikki and Nikki has only you know the problem was with the teeth yeah when he was in English he's not about the oldest and what like eight years ago yeah eight years yeah but you know it was in the end it was the good thing on the dock he has a really high turn from that they want to run to run to run but uh yeah yeah yes and so I go in the morning with a with a hot dogs not so far I go there three together on the bicycle and do the other goal in the morning six kilometers and in the evening six kilometers this is what I need from myself that is pretty cool oh yeah that's very cool and the good thing is the dogs are really in the family yeah they are living also with results in the house and I think this is different and now I learn also dogs to look a little bit from the other side so what they need to do in the in the house when you say okay you need to go here right there and so ah it's also nice I hope I get a little bit more motivation back so but because I wanted to do a little bit with the dog yeah good good yeah no sometimes it's okay to take a like I yeah yeah I mean how many years going full speed it's it's yeah and this is not the problem the problem is that that you in the end in the end you see that are you a little bit depressed about the people I said in this way not about the dogs it's a little bit about the people we are strange and it's not this is not just the dog Community I think people are just how we are yeah not just but look maybe a little

bit from the person's side now I'm living here in on the landscape and this is a it's so people who are living here around they are traditional you know farmers and all farmers are here Hunters and I'm completely here in this neighborhood I need one and a half year and then they take me into the neighborhood this is different a different completely different thing yeah oh it's like I'm not her yeah it became not in Florida I am now I know man you gotta come back again sometime like the place I mean it's still the same place but we've done so many uh things like since gosh it's been 20 something years yeah tell me you know what I was wanting to ask you and I kind of wanna it's almost for me not only for me but for everybody so we know how to train and prepare a little bit because um when when um right before covet came in in in Czech Republic fnbb you know like when all of a sudden the judging became super super hard and nobody was expecting this was not good this was not good Island we have a lot of problems to to to to to stop it so the problem was the problem is when given the strong beef different to stop difficult to stop yeah and this was the problem what we have yeah then you can breathe what you want in the end it's every time the same yeah in in especially in Czech Republic it was too rough in obedience and it was too rough in in protection of course okay yeah this you can do maybe that you can do in the final because then it's a little bit different but on the other side we have 100 points we have this 100 points and um if you give 96 then you have also four points to the top for sure for sure really good you know this is but also for this this you need to learn this for this in this is the different different difficult to learn it and back to one point when we talk about Judges and we talk about the this feeling um then you need to be relaxed to do it and if you are every time on the field and say oh I I'm I'm a little bit scared to miss a little a little little thing then it begins then the problems are beginning yeah do you find anything go ahead look and if you give 100 points or if you get 100 points in one discipline then normally 100 points is not able to to get but 100 points I think you can give 100 points when the emotion is there when you feel it that something happened and then you need to do it also it was yeah I think it was the same same idea from vandenbosch in in campus that you say I give this one of course you can find a little point of course you can find a little point but

you see it also for in the reaction of of the people who are a city everybody in this moment say okay nobody and I also give 100 points of protection maybe it was 98 or 99 but anyway it was a winner right right yeah interesting and I oh like do you think it had something to do like how how do you feel about the the four judges at fmbb I I'll tell you why I'm asking this is because sometimes when I when I watch or when I compete it's almost sometimes not always but you get the impression that the judges are almost competing with each other who is more harder or something like that you know look the the idea the idea of this system system was coming from Kansas who say we we want to have two different judges that not one judge is more or less don't don't like me and I get less points yeah what's the idea yeah I think I think it's better it became better when the judges are a little bit more relaxed and in the end they said together and say oh you look to that how you look to this point and then they find then they find a solution for the points I think this is a little bit better than to say okay one mistake here and one is staying there you make a lot of pressure to the two guys and when you make a lot of a lot of pressure it's the same with the dog sometimes they get stressed and then the things happen so the idea normally of the two judge system is to talk to each other and say hey come on this was super this was maybe not so good but it was it was not so bad you know what I mean it's not satisfactory it's good it's something like in this way and then it became a little bit better yeah okay I have a really good experience in the in the in I think two weeks before we have our German championship and um then dense power was responsible to laser tracks he was a the judge who make the Laser Quest the Michael Curtis was a judge and I was the technical yeah to take to take the book The draws and everything but we have but but Michael make it really good he say okay we have different pictures of dogs we have dogs who are a little bit under under pressing but anyway so they but they need to show an exact track we have talks with the high motivation so they have a little bit more space and and we have different speed of tops and he accepts this and make a really good comments so that every dog handler in the inside and it was a really good atmosphere in the tracking area yeah then when the problem was with a big big rain okay then the people go a little bit crazy and say no we need to do this for tracks and then we see what happened if not if everybody failed then they get new tracks and in this way we do it and it

works very cool but it only works when you have a relaxed team then this is more or less a problem yeah you've been talking about I know a lot of Judges who are really relaxed but sometimes they are a little bit too much politically right yes it's a very very hard thing with the politician side yeah yeah so as a judge what like what the like let's break it down in tracking what what do you not not the rules not the FCI not the FMB but you as a judge what what does 100 points look like for you in tracking what is the dog like what is the you know how we always talk emotional state Tale mount a little open years like forget to forget the forget this forget it I make I do this big mistake in in in geislingen when I was judging obedience and and explain it a little bit about the motivation and all the things but then you have a lot of people who are have not this experience in sport and they don't find the balance and then they begin to make interpretation and then yeah it it's done in this moment it's done yeah I stay I stay with one guy when we are after tracking and stay on the in the in the on the side of the field or the sideline I was the doctor say oh this is I like to talk it's not a bad dog yeah but you say look he's standing at the hair pump and he's doing a little bit it need to be a little bit more clear here a little bit more there essay yes of course but in this way if you want to do it you need to make it clear for him and when you make it clear for him you are out of our rules if you do it and somebody see you when you fix this maybe it's only one time for the dog but then you out every time the same and this is a big problem the judge need to find a balance and you need to accept different pictures but this you only can do when you have trained different kind of dogs right right and and there is a little difference to listen and if you want to learn something but this is also yeah because it's it's becoming very mechanical of looking at certain things and and I know people I mean when we look to obedience when we look to obedience I'm a little bit happy that we have this 50 points for free healing so the fifth point for free healing there you can put everything in everything in every development of the exercise and and and and so on so but when you begin with a 5.6 exercise and you talk about the basic positions development and then you have it when you have then sometimes you have a pass sit a fast sit and maybe the dog need a little need to be a little bit relaxed and show a little bit to the side oh oh the focus is not there if the dog is completely into the focus and then because he said

a little bit too slow because he is on tense and it's also not good so what you want in the end right you know what I mean yeah and you don't you only understand it when you train a dog otherwise it's not possible and when you train a dog to to men I don't think even one dog is enough to to and say you need to train different kind of dogs different kind of yeah that's the thing different kind of dogs because when you train one dog and you're even if we are super successful with this one dog that's one type of dog I mean it doesn't mean it's not even about the breed right it's it's a just the temperament of that dog and it's a false it kind of misleads you to think that you now know how to read dogs and that every dog can act the same way and it's not easy to be a judge it's really not easy and so important um if you look if you have a dog everybody talk about dominant dog you wonder what is dominant talk a dominant talk is a little bit more relaxed yeah when it's been when when I think about Cayman Cayman was not aggressive he was really relaxed when you go into the protective say okay no problem for me it was a little bit like this you know the king's walking and yeah and and when you talk with the helpers they say okay every time when you make the pressure phase and you think now it's super oh it's really easy then you begin to put you out of your out of your way anyway but back to the to the judges if you and and this this CC also or almost if you have a dog who is super Maybe especially in something then the judge say this is normal and begin to judge in this way when the dog has the issue in something then he also look from a different point from his own dog maybe this is it I'll never get a fast down so the first order is not so important but I get a fast seat so fast it is from the important and here you need to find the balance right yeah and important is how you explain it to the to the talk handlers how you make a report yeah that's really really because if you can give a good critique and and I don't like you know how sometimes judges would turn it into a little mini seminar as they're giving the critique starting to give advice how you need to whatever it's like you I mean you don't even know what the person is doing but you're now it's not about you you're just the church to give you you have to give a hint what is missing so they can go back and change it this is very important for a judge but when they start to give you this like uh oh I know how to feel it's like oh it's a strange one um what you mean yeah it happens it happens and then yeah it happens a lot of time yes to where all of a sudden

the the little Club trial becomes about the judge and not about the competitors what about like a like really I what what do you what will be your advice and and you're one of the people that can give good advice for the helpers of 2023. now that the stick hits are not possible and the program is so rigid like you make five steps stick pretend whatever what would be your advice for a helper a Trial Competition helper to like if you're not judging a big competition what would you tell a helper or how how would you want to see the helper do so so the dog still can be evaluated and is it even possible okay so um one thing is what I want we start from the beginning in the blind in the in the product back and hold and one in the back and hold that that the helper one one important thing is that the sleeve is in front of the helper not on the side of Sahara so that we can stop the podcast right here cheers to that we can so that we can see is the dog possible to make back and hold with the sleeve in front of him yeah and it's not that he can that he can do a little bit and void and go from one or to the other side so we had this discussion and uh on this FCI judge meeting oh if the talk is sitting I say it's a dog sitting on the left or the right side it doesn't care he don't sit in the middle right is it it doesn't interest me how you want to train it but I want to see that the dog is communicate with a helper so and then the helper also need to to have to to look to the dog and you need to have a little bit like how I can say it a little bit that the dog don't know exactly what he expect in this moment from him you need to be a little bit more code in this moment yeah in the in in the in the short Escape in the short Escape um I don't want to see the Sprint and this fast running this is I think not the important thing and he for me when the dog really prevents the Escape then the helper can stop after five meters normally but it's not in the rules but you know what I mean yeah and and the same is in the in the attack I want to see um that that the sleeve is in a horizontal way and he really move against we removed against the dog not looking for one side and when the dog stopped him he stopped him it's it's not then it's a good talk you know what I mean yeah and on the uh and and then we have this this part of uh attack after back transport and also on the on the long bite for this you need special helpers who really can move straight and and that they are able to catch the dog really when they come in front and not go before out of the line and and something like that you know they need to be um I talk I talk with uh with Ralph

councilman and he's coming back and his son is really uh I think he became also a talent and and rifles in the beginning a little bit boxing you say okay you need this jumping with this with it what is it it's a line oh yeah yeah yeah boxing yeah this is good for your legs and you need to have the boxing with the with the sunset so that you have here the moving in in your hips here this was really interesting um and and it was also one of the really nice things what happened now in Germany and and they create they do in their part of of Germany they make a helper camp for young helpers open for for every habits and there were more than 120 people something like that there and they really motivate the young helpers and to say we have good we don't see bad helpers and they give a little bit their experience this is good yeah very cool yeah this is good and yeah on the other side this mental pressure that's you need also to explain them a little bit and this is not coming by speed right speed actually takes away from it um but this is uh do you even like when we're talking about the the back transport attack of the back transport and the courage test how much is natural ability natural talent and how much is skill that you learn what you what what do you what is your here in the brain that need to connect and you need to and and you really need to like this to go against the dog and and um I think you need to have a little bit talent for this right I think you have a lot of talent I think because there is no time to to think what you're gonna do and if you do it too quick like if you start to move too quick it's not good so you have like in my opinion a helper has to have the confidence to to be patient yes right and then the talent to move and be fluid and it's a very difficult combination yeah it is it is but we have some helpers who can do it oh 100 we have it we have it huh maybe one point also what we stayed before for the and we want to have real attacks you know this moment to see how the dock reacts and um there was one idea it came also from Michael Kors as he said maybe we need in our program on one point in protection it can be of the back transport it can be after re-attack that we have a second that we have one additional attack but it's it comes in some place but the judge can decide on the discretion of the judge yes I think this would be this is it's not to say we want to have it more difficult for the dogs it's it may be a little bit for make it a little bit more honest in the protection in the truth honest training in the training very true yeah very natural

but that's gonna that's gonna mess all the point structure but it would be so good to have to Pro um oh that would be so good to have in in this moment we have influence on on this is what every time the judges say we want to have influence of the education blah blah blah blah blah um but for the quality of a dog and maybe then it became a little bit more natural don't say okay now by book by my dog only need to prepare to make house and jump and on the other side you only need to stay there and look no so then what What You Do In This Moment In This Moment In This Moment you need to train in a different way correct to be more more more more honest is the very the right word because I really like so many dogs and training goals now now you can get the bite and now you don't get a bite and the dog should always expect that there can be a bike and and Michael I mean that's brilliant idea I just don't see how it can be implemented with because you're gonna have to figure a way how to play with the points you only need to divide the point yeah this is not this is not a huge problem but this is an idea and you know it's and to people are a little bit also I think our I think our program is not so bad what we have I think the program is not so bad but when we have new people and a new uh commission and then they want to think okay what we need to change but the problem in my in my opinion is not to change how to make it better how to make it more clear I think this is more important instead of changing something not nobody understands how how do the changes happen do you do you know like how for example how did the seat out of motion became Five Points it's a big mystery for me I asked I asked Harry archon but he he didn't really answer me the question and I don't know if he knew the answer or what but like sit Downs of motion is a very very very it's a mistake cool exercise important exercise it's a mistake to make to put five points on this exercise it's a mistake that's the end of the story and look I was also in this um in this Elite group um but in the end it's every time the same you have every country has one vote right it doesn't matter how much experience I have it doesn't matter how many people are doing Dog Sports this is not the important Point important is that every country has one vote and you have different tradition in the countries of the sport right right yeah so and who are the people who present the sport for the countries these are more or less people who have what doing in a in a political way

and in a political way every time is that you have that they build groups this is normal they're the big groups to that that they can put their interest in front this is huh they have their lobbies yeah yeah so look when I was going to I was going to Romania this is a country have no experience in this way huh and um you know our a lot of people don't go this this thing was this thing is not the right way in the sport but anyway that is their decision a lot of people don't go there um and it was also a little bit difficult to do it you're talking about the fmbb last year I mean this year this year yes it was a little bit difficult for me for me the environment on the field that you have here's a field with says scroll around to a business no and you have after sent out five meters we have the agility and 10 meters on the side of on the blind we have the uh they have some money and on the other side you have an airplane who starts this little little motor airplanes amazing was how social the dogs always was and that it was have no influence on the on the performance of the blocks it doesn't matter so okay some dogs were jumping in the center but there was not jumping because there was agility correct and it was only a small process maybe two dogs I don't know exactly but um the the the people who are in the tracking field who do the tracks and the judges and also the helpers and also the technical director on the field everything was in time everything was perfect the problem was a little bit the secretary because they put there was too much for two people who do the whole thing to do the whole thing it was a little bit sad for the for the celebration that there was not the right form for celebration with a good protest with a little bit with really presence and all the things um this is beside but and I think it's also important that you have in this way uh a habit good but for me only for me the most important thing in this case as Supervisor was that the spot Works in our igp that the judges are working that the helpers are working and that we have in this way that we have a good team and I think this was for me one of the good experience I was 12 days there first I was judging they asked me and say oh do you can judge a little competition that we see what happened yeah the little competition was the world championship of the of the headers anyway anyways um and but in the end I need to say also when they don't make it perfect I I became a good contact with the people this is people from there and I I feel from the how they're hosting me I I it was for me what was nice no it was not high standard but it's not important and

also in the evening we come together with the judges and and the helpers and and we have good atmosphere we don't talk about the dogs or blah blah blah blah we have only fun together this was really nice so it was a good group and I also can do it like some other people it was doing from from our our commission stand on the side look for critics and only make it I try to make really to fix the things for the competitors uh it begins with uh put the draws and everything right it was a lot of work but I but I say okay do it for the sport and and and do the best what they can do yeah this was a little bit from the organization okay what do you think about the the now go go finish your thought look for this you need more people and I think it's also that I say also in the in our fnbb uh talking also in the commission and I said also in the board when we have this we need to when we put it to countries like that we need to support a support we need to have a team go down and help them and support if we don't can say you need to do that and that and that and that and if you don't do it we blame you I think this is not possible right yeah on the other side we need to catch these countries for our sport it's important as more people we are as better it is 100 True 100 sure what about like fmbb is becoming very difficult with like done you know when when we when we first had the the big unification like having the obedience agility mind you and everything they were not so big now fmbb World Championship I mean in monduring now you have almost as many competitors and it takes double more time and it becomes very difficult for a country to find a space to and the Manpower to have this big event yes so I mean do you guys ever talk about this like possibly going back to only igp or or or like I really think it's becoming very difficult to find people to convince countries to to do it now yes you're right um the idea the idea to make it like we have 1 000 dogs in one spot the idea was the idea this idea come from Johan and the idea was okay now you have so much dogs on one spot not only on the show or different dogs utility dogs here together and this is a little bit showing to the public okay we are we are important it's a celebration yeah instead of making small things yeah on the other side life became more difficult more expensive so it will become easier if you say okay we we spent one and a half week or we spend two weeks yeah you know for this and make it step by step but this is almost not possible and the people you know when they are working they don't have so much holidays right and and maybe they

don't want to spend it in this time yeah yeah it's a it's an interesting yeah this is uh yeah the the future of the show what we can do so next one is Italy yeah Italy is crazy now they want to have this rescue dogs and they want to have they want to rescue dogs and they want to have also the the shepherd dogs yeah oh wow wow wow wow yeah yeah yeah because okay they have the space but I think it became too it became too much I know and then you had Candy Crush backyard King blah blah blah it's a lot of things agility obedience monitoring and and and it it became too big yeah and I think you know like at least as a spectator or competitor when I go I mean I yeah of course I go and I see watch a little bit of agility I go and watch a little of obedience I do watch Monday ring because you know it's it's I mean I I have interest in it and I train at them I do the same yeah I was looking sometimes here sometimes there right if you have something else but ultimately when you are in one game you that's that's where you spend your time being a competitor or being a spectator like 90 of your time is in the sport you're interested in and and so even though what I'm trying to say even though we are all together which is again a big celebration in this big like there is something special about it for sure but even even so we are still kind of inside divided into our interest groups yes and maybe that's one of our mistakes um if the agility people and obedience people monitoring people support us and we support them then we have more power but it's like you know you know how it is such a good point you're making right now you don't need to go too much inside but this is a little bit so and and but it's a time that it's less and less respect this is more or less a problem this is such a good point you just made and I haven't I I really haven't looked at it from that angle because ultimately the idea is for us to defend Dog Sports and to appreciate all the different angles and and that's not the case we're missing that point all of us yeah we kind of look down on each other you too we need to get all to to get ideas I wonder how can we change that and Kenya is it even possible Evan look um you always uh crazy maniac in this in this sport yeah and you also have your visions and you also was was going your way and fighting also for the things same like me yeah but what I see after more than I don't know 45 years and 45 years nearly 50 years dark spot now um I'm I'm not really proud of something what I was doing I'm not really happy and that my motivation is going so much down yeah and um

what what what maybe what we can make better is to get the people a different point of view and that when they do this sport in their life and they say this is our our main thing in life City when they stop it they say oh this was a good time now we are happy I also can say that it was a good time but the last years was not so good you know what I mean the last years were not so good and on the other side it's like it is uh you get what you deserve yeah it's not only that say it's a mistake of the people it's also I also have the put the mistake in in in the motivation that I lose or not have anymore so much yeah and it's not only that we do it for a long time if you have passion you have passion yeah but you need to have a response this is also important yeah yeah and one thing that I think is really important to learn when you have look we have both of us have a lot of success but we also need to go with stocks maybe where we don't have this High success what we had in the past and this is also a point that we need to take that we need to eat yeah very very real very real point but we are not depressed now I'll be looking forward yeah so if you if you were like let's say you had the power to change things in the in the bigger community of the dog sport like all Dog Sports how do you think we can come together is it even possible somehow that we could come together the only way to change it it's not the task of of one man right it's a task the community and if you want to come together we come together that's the end of the story yeah but you know when you come together you need to make you need to accept different kinds of characters and you need to make your compromise yeah for sure there's got to be compromise oh and this and they only do there you have your own borders you know your own limits it's like this but we are not even trying no we're not trying I know maybe remember getting old and coming with uh what is this now Walker the Walkers let me sit there and say oh oh stupid because we were yeah yeah I know I can laugh about it that one um I I never will completely separate from the sport but it's a little bit when when I say I do something and I have a task in something if it's judging or supervising or doing a dog then I try to do it in the good way and also with a lot of power but only if I feel I can do it I will do it otherwise I don't do it look we have every year we have this discussion only beside now every year we have to discussion with with the judges every year so organizer came and give a list of judges and we have this they say the commission is responsible for the judges so and and

and that this is not clear it every time became a negative touch you know you go to the organizer say no be you you put your proposal away because it's not your task right and then it's every time the same but if you want to make it in a sport way we have a committee for positive who select the judges and from and say every time from different countries and we have a committee for monitoring for lgp for everything we have it and this is important and this organizer need to accept because he want to have a good Championship we try to take good judges we try to take good helpers and then the pressure you were working for look not the judges or help us we're working for our dogs no who are working for the competition this is the idea and when it became from an organizer there's every time sorry something behind yes it's very interesting this is a this is a such a difficult topic I I can say it both ways I think um you know like the FNB be taking the responsibility for who the judges are then you you cannot blame the local country and the local clubs it went well or it didn't went well and like you and I have been doing this and you've been doing it at least I don't know how many years before me but we've been doing it for many years at the World level we know in the past how one country used to okay well now it's our turn to get all the benefits and we select our judges and Haka on you and so having fmbb deciding and not the host country there is a big benefit of that because you eliminate or or at least you try to eliminate that thing of well it's our country hosting it so we're gonna make it good for our country and and it used to be like this for quite some years right and and it wasn't fair and I think the idea that you're describing is very good and and um it it really it makes people that are not going from the Home Country more comfortable entering the trial as being none bias right yes yes you need to be a the idea is every time the same the best need to win what do you think about the tracking tracking is becoming quite difficult to find even even for training I mean you're you're in Germany you're in uh you know look don't worry look I have here my neighbors are farmers and hunters and they have 100 hectare where I can go it's a big problem is I don't have the motivation to go but why it is like this they see when I go with my dogs they say listen that they don't run after some rabbits or some other things yeah and this is also a little bit to have the you know and and and and they don't I don't let them run through the fields and this is also a little bit what what we have huh anyway um what I saw is a song on a on fmbb

Fair and Schuster show me a little bit um a video uh I don't watch the whole 20 minutes but I show a little bit and easy as this finding some articles on the Square from 20 meters yeah parents is in one case a little bit special I like it but he's a little bit special in one case but what he is what he is uh spending time in the in the in the tracking and in the ideas I really like so he show it a little bit and the doc was looking for some really really small articles and the dog handler was standing on the outside it was only 20 my 20 meters and it was amazing how the doc was how interesting yeah yeah by itself not on a leash or nothing it yeah it's it's for for me for so long dark spot and only go for the tracking a little bit difficult to understand but it was amazing it was amazing to see it and I think maybe it's an idea but you know we have now um in in the states um what they call it American should want and it's basically it's a very interesting it's been for two years and it's picking up some some speed but it's a have you heard of it or no no so it's a it's a very interesting combination of some new things and and returning back to the roots of the program so for example the in in Short Run 1 which is even crazy to say shoot on one today it just doesn't sound right anymore right but in shotgun one you have now again attack out of the blind how it used to be in the long bite you have the helper running away turning back and going at the dog so a lot of the old elements but the tracking is what you're describing what Schuster also was saying it's a area search for the lower level and then it's a real detection work for level three like okay like a real detection work it's a very I will send you some uh a thing I mean you you will be able to look it up too but um and it's basically kind of I think an answer to all the difficult problems the the dog Community is facing today and um but yeah it's an interesting thing and um who knows if it's gonna take off or no but because it's not the FCI it's not it's just an American thing um don't mean that it's bad right another thing like we don't we still are super fortunate that we can walk our dogs with prone colors we can go all the way to the field with the electric color and take it off and if you're good on the field you're good on the field then there is no you know you can be happy I know we're like it's it's very very like you know like even few uh maybe a couple of weeks ago I posted on Facebook because it just came to me like I'm like

I don't need to worry I can just train my dog and show you what I'm doing and there is you know it's so normal for us still it's a difficult conversation to have and in Europe it's becoming harder and harder and more and more countries are submitting to that idea that um you know make it on one point our problem is the people who need to support us who need to protect us that do the opposite they do the opposite they don't know what they do but they do it and um in the end is what you say what we want to see is a dog who understands his work on the field right but what you want to see if the dog is depressed you don't do it if the dog is stressed you don't do it huh yeah but and then it shouldn't matter what you did in training because you either did a very shitty job and you need to change it I don't care what you've been doing but that's not good yeah yeah but this is a me it's here it's a little bit like okay no maybe it's not so nice but you know we say in Germany the fish begin to to smell bad from the head yeah it's a little bit like this so if you now have a head in Germany that a people who have no education who have no not where possible to do a job or to finish something and they'll lead us in Germany and they make the rules you know what I mean right yeah yeah I mean that's the police and we have in our in our we have we have really really good good politicals in the in the past a really good in the good oil past now then and one of them it was like Hammer Schmidt and they asked him hey it wasn't that you get the power no no no we say for me every political need to be have education need to be successful in the job and when his political area stops he can go back in this job this is what I expect from a political yeah and now transferred to our dog spot you need to have somebody who has education in the dark spot who was possible to train a dog who was possible to go to competition and when he stopped his career as a judge he also can go back and be also successful with his stocks yeah so but the mainstream blocks in another way what is very interesting to me is that um countries that looks like Romania or Brazil or you know just just some country that doesn't necessarily is affected by the laws of the country but they a lot like the trainers are confused and they think that it's uh like it's a fashion to oh we we do what is done now in Switzerland and Austria and Germany and we just so we and not understanding that they they're losing an important battle without even fighting their willingly giving it up you know I understand it's just strange as you said like earlier earlier in the podcast it's a

very strange time we are living in in in every aspect of life yes I mean it's I we have so good times every everything was okay we can we have comfortable life we have everything what we need okay we never have enough of course we have everything what we need and and then it comes to the point that the people go crazy and I think we are now in this past this border yeah let's change the subject because it's depressing okay tell me about that yeah I mean that's unsolvable I think who knows but you have the good Havana so anyway right so besides shutsand yeah what are the other ones the other protection like pmpv the Belgium French ring and so on what is another program that you have appreciation for that you understand and that you understand the selection and so on um in in the moment when we need to stop the workers a suit um it was a little bit set for me so then then I go separated a little bit but I was also I was also looking to uh to uh France I'm looking for the French yes um and then I have an experience with with a knpv but uh it was it looks spectacular but I saw one ring helper in 1995 from France um who was training who was doing a little bit uh training with the dogs and they say okay you can do what they want but and no dog was biting anymore so um yeah it's so so for me was uh I'm a little bit beside this I I like to look it and and but but I'm not so involved in these things yeah when you did the kyorans there were sometimes dogs that do come from France or Belgium or you know I mean what was your impression of the dogs that decided to do the Cure on how how stable how how are they doing under the current programs thank you I mean was there a big difference between the German and let's say a French dog or a Belgian dog like yeah look look look there's no big huge difference because we are breeding from this lines right yeah right yeah breathing from this lines now and and if we okay I think that the the the dogs who are uh from from from Belgium who are more training in in their their ring spot in a static way for that you get dogs with much better grips yeah because it you can see it in the static word if the dog is able to take to hold in franchise a little bit different because you know the helpers are a little bit crazy they they train with a little small shoot and then they looked at the dog don't they don't get the shoes yeah no it's normally yeah and and this is more so it's it it's nice and a really really high spot for me really high sport for me but the selection of the dogs is it's it's a little bit different than from from what we need for our sport right and we see what happens with the dog from France

it's um the effect was mob is a dog from Belgium for our sport there were more uh have more skills for our sport yeah right yeah it makes sense it makes sense um do you think the sport kinda has a a little bit like in Germany right now like uh I know there is so many different I don't know camps or clubs or what do you want to call it but and it's quite divided right but all of a sudden everybody seems to realize that we need to promote and educate the public and get them involved and and get them to accept what we do that it's not a horrible thing look what happened with the young kids when they're playing together in the sand yeah drinking from the house no no everybody want to have the best form to make is little thing of sand you know what I mean right and you want to be the chief Indian yeah look what we have everything what to do what you do buy it you have to you you have only the half if you divide it again you have only a quarter it's like it is so and if something get divided it's really difficult to put it together right most of it it never works it's like it is if you cut it it's cut so and this is a problem and this is what's always a little bit bit what what I say but I don't can manage was also that what we have in our club that I I I don't was able to to hold the things together you know normally I need to sit in the car and go to the people and say come on we need to sit on the table and we need to solve our problems right and the personal problems it was only personal problems and after it became you know how the peoples are the people are after the things are subdivided they almost come and say we need to go against against and say no for what it's done it's done you know ironically awma our Malinois Club in the states we're super small I mean you know we're like between 350 to 450 people that's the complete membership and a few years ago there was a moment where we were gonna have a split and have two clubs which is a parody like what are we doing like like what we're gonna have like 20 and 20 and 20 and have five clubs and and as a competitor as a competitor right I would love to compete with the best dogs not with the best dogs in this group but everybody and somehow we did manage to keep the club intact but it's a like in our country we have we have big problems with the people that lead and the people that train and say fools

to the dog and go and do every day what we like to do and right you know what I'm saying it's like this is this is this is typical dark spot like when was the last time you said fuss to a dog so what what are we talking yeah yeah yeah yeah I know what you mean but you know the the things are always the same the things are always the same look in the good on times in the really old times it was the same the people from Mexico that think they believe that there is a river and the dog who brings it to the other side the same goes in Greece but they never met each other you know so funny story and the same is this in in everything with the same be we destroy ourselves we don't can build a community this is our problem and it's natural for humans to be this way always to have you know the groups and the tribes and all that but finding a way how to one day of the year come together and have an event all together nothing compares to that but somehow we you know the the ego is like doesn't let us do this yeah difficult I don't know do you think how many years do you think before igp becomes like I I I I see and there is young people that are getting interested in but some but less less and and they don't know what the the original idea of the that doc sport was like I mean in five ten years they will be doing igp or it's gonna be called for sure something else when I I will be looking at it and I was like that's not what I used to do that's totally not the sport how do we maintain at least at least not lose anymore this is the big question that all of us need to sit down and figure it out um I think um the problem with the the problem is not uh that it's difficult to change to change humans after childhood it's how they are growing up and how much they get from their parents and so on and so on and this this create a little this creates a character um so for me it's not my it come a little bit late but not for me it's more important to create this in my son that he has able to do something good in the in the in the future you know what I mean it doesn't matter in which way if it in talksport it's something else it's just not important but that you have a foundation and that you have a little bit of basics for that yeah so and like we do it with our dogs when we start with designer we explain them also a little bit and we also show them their limits and and and that there are some rules this is normal here

but this is in this difficult it's difficult so but come on we have a good time anyway man for sure you have a good time and when we met next time we also have a good time so this is for me more important that's true that's true this is more important and when we see God talks we are happy so this is no and it doesn't matter if it's if I'm going or you are going or somebody else is going with a dog let me see a good dog it's it really we like it and we need to accept okay there are different pictures and there are different characters and that's all and that's what makes it interesting actually don't you agree that's really what makes it interesting it's like oh you're trained this way I train this way we come somewhere to the same performance and what would you tell like young trainers at least in the states and I'm sure people all over the world listen to them trainers you know the problem with young trainers is it's every time the same in the in the time when I was starting I was in a club in the club was like this we have some we have the the men who was responsible for the education yeah and what we have we have three times in a week someday we go trekking and Tuesday on Friday we make obedience and we make a protection if you don't can go to trekking you don't can do the other things yeah what you need to learn is Basics Basics Basics Basics what we have now now the young people have some have some super uh intelligent and also good educated mentors they explain everything they prepare the dog another dog have success the next dog looks completely different than they try to do it by themselves it's the normal way when they have so they have not this way of having Basics and going up and having progress now they start really high and then it's going down and then maybe and then it's going down then if something's really interesting then they try to create some ideas and some points of view that this is not so bad what they are doing instead of saying this was what I was doing I need to change it I need to understand come on what are the basics of the things huh and on the other side how many dogs you see of many dog hunters who see that they get they take a good dog and then they of course because the dog has a good education a good childhood and then they then they can do something but from the start to the end they don't are able to do it right or because they are missing the basics huh they're missing the basics and this is a little bit a huge problem that we have this basic training that we have is clubs yeah where the people can go where the young people can go now people try to do

it with their okay you have a place free on the seminar but it's too much for them normally don't have this education they need from the basics and so they miss a lot and it's if you need to work hard for some results you are happy for this results and you need that you need to work for them when you get it too early then it became a problem because yeah that's a phenomenon for sure that is a problem and this and then most of the people say okay they quit yeah I mean I was 25 years in a normal dog Club until I grow I I came up 25 years I was shampoo before became a judge huh and I was my first was oh when I started helper back I say I want to work one day on the highest competition on the German Championship I want to I want to go and I get it in the end yeah I get it in the end [Music] growing step by step yeah and YouTube and Instagram and it's very difficult to navigate because there is good information and equally bad information and how when you when you don't know how do you find your way you know what the you know what the worst thing is in this case when you have a high competition you see a performance that is maybe not the best performance and that you have a political judging and then it became a little bit like this it's normal this is okay if the dog is coming after in the this is a dumbbell and and run beside you or sit in in the head is a little bit down don't present it oh look it's good they get the points from that and this is a huge problem yeah and you know how we are as dog people if we say this is what we expect and we go in this way then you train your dog in this way and you get it so so interesting how to I cannot imagine me being 20 something I'm starting again I probably will get lost I would get lost I don't know everybody get lost one time believe me and look I was a lot of time thinking okay about the podcast and so I say I need to spend it I need to have the the right time for this this takes so long that I say okay because for me it's not important to express myself it's it's this is done yeah right and the only thing is to give a little bit the experience and and what what my experience was and what's the result out of this experiences right this is this is the thing and contribution I hope it I I really hope that we stay a long time that the spots stay a long time really I hope that I hope it and and that what I can do from my side through this I I will do it you know I will do it but you you're gonna get back coming you have to get back in like full training and yeah even see [Laughter] but you do look it's so nice in the

morning because it was how do I stand up okay I put my dog out yes it's not it's besides the bed he has a little bit spacer so I go out I stand up in the morning then I need to go to the company I go down and make my coffee stay around me huh so then I go with him I would go with him bicycling take the other dogs go with them so this is also what I want to do for sure then sometimes I try to do a little bit with him short only short Parts but not like before to go three days in a week or every day and training training training no yeah because this is it's not is this I have no time now in this moment so and not the motivation for it yeah I go back and forth like that but um I I guess I got some I I got two young dogs and I'm doing laundry ring without one female one year old just just because of this I think because I I kind of want to refresh and do something outside something that excites me again you know I I think um a lot of times um it's very hard for somebody that it's very different to be successful one time and it's a totally different game to be successful over and over and over and over again and and only I understand when you say that you lose motivation I understand 100 what that means because even if you win another world championship so what you won one more World Championship but the time the effort the sacrifice the the the absolute amount of obsession that goes in to win a world championship you need it it's insane yeah it's insane and you know what the end of the story is the king is dead long lives a king right [Laughter] and you know it's every time the same when you are the Hunter and you became the world championship then you'll be the fox everybody is handing you it's normal it's yeah yeah and you know the biggest problem is the people have no respect for this so people have no respect for this title if you're in another kind of sport that people have respect for you but in this case they have no respect and before I forget it look we have in Germany this this Iron Lady you know custard grima yeah um I I know her since more or less than since I start talk spot and I have a lot of fights with sir a lot of fights but every time on face to face and never personally never ever yeah and um she also will stop next year in video and um I was you know people gave a lot of comments stupid people give the most stupid comments every time but what that we have heard in our in Germany she saves the sport for the last years of course she saved it otherwise it will be in another way that we don't have then I think that we don't have the dogs but she was doing a lot of things in this way and uh

and then we have this stupid people around who was fighting against her you I don't know if you know that because crazy anyway because this was also for me really important but because this is a woman I have a lot of respect for what she was doing all the time for for us and she was all the time there when when also I was doing a mistake that she stand behind because other people don't have the back to do it you know what I mean they say better okay we put it away and then it's easier now she was fighting focus and she was understanding it a little bit yeah so we met in Italy or you come to Italy I I well I I I'm not gonna I I think I'm coming to Italy but I'm not competing because my dog is too young and so that one dog that I have he's just turned two years old and I'm having a lot of fun like I'm having like I feel like 20 years ago that's how excited I am all of a sudden I might be I might be crazy I hope I catch the same moment I I wish that it comes back at you because it's uh you have to stay in the field and make a competition yeah kind of feel like a little kid you know like I I wake up and and I'm like oh I need to do dumbbell you know like I get excited again and that I didn't think that I will which is you know um but yeah I'm definitely want to come and I think it's important for all of us to to find ways to to give back and and you know just how you're talking about uh hard right now and like we we all get burned out it's not easy and and it's never um it's not a thankful job I mean being a judge being a helper is one thing but being really in a like the bigger organization you know like where you are now with fmbb or how you were at the office yeah you're always somebody that most of the time everybody points at you as you're doing it wrong and it was not possible it was not possible in FCI to bring it on the on the sporty way it was not possible it was short before but you know then you find something and that you are out again anyways it's like this this is this is our biggest problem I think we we have to find ways that we can disagree with each other strongly disagree with each other but maintain that ultimate goal for the future and we don't have it yet we don't I don't know you're still judging though right I mean you're still going out and judging I'm judging I'm judging now I think I'm judging now the next judging person hi I think in Spain yeah Spain again yeah in Spain again I was judging a lot I was judging all over the world I was judging four times the vdh right in Germany yeah yeah I just looked

at you like you know before the podcast I'm like man I don't think I know everything Edgar's done and and that's the that's something that's missing with the young kids they would go and try to learn something from somebody on YouTube that he has a Malinois that has not done nothing but he has 200 followers [Laughter] so mind-blowing to me yeah and and all you need to do is go guys go on working dog type Edgar circle's name go to his profile and go down and see how many first places in National and World Championships and how many second places how many followers do you have on YouTube by the way I I don't know I really don't know I don't care I don't care about this I don't care about YouTube or something like this really I don't care and this is the this is where I think young people get very uh um you know Finding finding who to learn from can be so confusing today because there's the kids are used to like um there is 200 or 500 or a million followers he must be doing something right yes no he's paying some public relations right but uh hopefully it was also in the on the on the point that I say okay now you go and make it professional in dog sport or you stay also and make your job and in your own car company essay no this is uh beside if the people won't want me a little bit I come I do a little bit but on the other side I'm I'm I have my company and this is where I I get my money from and this is from yeah yeah so this was my decision you know also I understand that people are doing it in another way everything is okay yeah right it's not that I blame them it's not only for me was this was my way to be also not dependent on it you know what I mean not dependent on success blah blah blah you know you know what is all around the very interesting stuff okay my friend I think no I need to work my dogs we have a long time podcast it was very good very very good one um I'm very appreciated that you you found the time to do it and um yeah hopefully I see you in in Italy my friend well of course say hello to the family if I manifest I see if I see your daughter I probably would be like wow I'll kill you the kill you I like a video from from her post jumping yeah cool maybe maybe we think of since you're still judging maybe maybe we we figure something out to bring you to Florida again you know by the way outside of everything like every time with me and my wife with Natalia whenever we like she she always thinks so high of you because that that was her intro yeah yeah training a lot with the dog from you [Laughter] yeah yeah all right okay thank you so much take care

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