Training Without Conflict® 팟캐스트 에피소드 66: Natalia Balabanov

I definitely seen live and seeing from the videos. Yeah, this is this was the same level of good training and being professional um good approach with people and dogs and patients. So that was really what I saw first from the videos and then I we met in Germany. >> And when you talk about the videos, you're talking about the >> training without conflict. Yes. What was interesting tell us about the pirate stories of the videos, right? >> Well, it was a >> which is classic for East European countries. >> I didn't know it's a classic, but apparently it was. Yes. So, um yeah, a friend of mine that I that I train with. Um yeah, he brought this uh DVD like there was no cover, no nothing. And >> this pirate copy >> pirate copy >> underground. I blab >> everybody had them right. >> But at the time I didn't even think that there is a I'm getting some >> that's what they did with the book >> video. Oh really? No >> that I didn't know. >> They they were like eventually I saw it in in translated in Russian. I'm like okay. >> No that that I didn't even know. Yeah. But it was it was such a normal thing that I'm like yeah sure I'll watch it. And yeah, it got me in. So that was uh from the videos to, you know, as far as the training and and all this. Exactly. Um when we met, I saw the same level and and it's like Yeah. Like you you met the expectation, >> the box were checked. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. the the um other part that that was um actually like very cool like like you were just a cool person like very funny. Um approachable um yes like yeah cool person to hang out with. one one of the things probably and and I'm sure that's going to be interesting for many people but some some of the listeners for sure can really relate and are very curious and this is the how does it work to be so competitive and sometimes to be the student sometimes to be the competitor and still remain partners, husband and a wife and do this over and over back to back again. What is the the easy and the difficult parts? This is what probably people would be curious to know. Well, first of all, it took us a while to to be able to to separate what's going on on the field and then like five minutes later we're at home and to forget about all what happened on the field and just have a normal life. So that that took us a while to to master this. >> It took a while for sure. Oh, we took a while. Yeah, we >> what what it means a while is we will go out and we will have a training session and for whatever reason we will be I said so no you didn't know whatever some I mean we would find what to disagree on anybody that works

together with their partner spouse etc knows exactly what we're talking about and those situations to be able to to learn how to be. It took us some time to where we we just had a training session this morning as most mornings. you think you reach certain level and you think you know everything or at least like you can um be equal at certain you know points and you know and and then I like felt like okay like I'm dealing with a two world a two times world champion and I'm like >> but still your husband >> right Right. So, >> well, back in a different time of my life, I was a I I I was a ski instructor and I was a surf instructor and this was just my my younger years. That was kind of my life. Summertime I'm on the Black Sea. Um, winter time I'm in the mountains. Well, we try to learn to how to ski and he wasn't into it at all. She was like, "I've tried it. It's not fun. It's whatever." Somehow I convinced her eventually. So, well, guess who is the instructor and I'm teaching her and I'm kind of in front of her doing, you know, the pizza moves if you know skilled [ __ ] And she's doing pretty good actually. Like really, really good. However, anytime I tell her that she's wrong or there is something more to do, she just flips out and gets like, "Oo." And then there was a moment when I'm like, "Baby, like if I'm I'm can you just think of me as the instructor right now, not your husband. Like I am just or we hire another instructor." >> So, this was a very interesting one, right? Yeah. >> And then >> at the time I couldn't think this way. Like back then I just couldn't separate those um two things. So like you're trying to teach me something. >> No, it's normal. I mean I I think this is kind of the fun part. I mean >> I don't know. It's >> we end up the fun part. Okay. always kind of getting hot about it and eventually the end find a way to laugh about it cuz it is funny >> but also the level of like we both are super competitive and >> right that's both of our personalities that's for sure >> it's it's it's it's good and it's bad you know I mean it >> and but I'm not done with the story because I learned my lesson So we we did okay with the ski. I mean she's now hooked. We are definitely already having plans to go uh uh where where we going on vacation skiing and everything. She she like I'm super happy that we are this is one of the best things. Now we go to the summertime fun. the well I when I'm talking surfing I I was a wind surf you know not not the not the actual surfing like in in Brazil or Hawaii or whatever >> but then I made a better choice instead of going through that struggle and frustration and fighting >> guess what I did

>> I hire an instructor so she can be felling down and getting up and felling down and getting up and >> and not yelling at anybody. >> Right. Right. Right. She was she was a true student >> and I was sitting having my drink and watching and I'm like, "Yep." >> Yeah. >> We are almost ready to go together now. >> But >> No, true. True. But with dog training it's a it's a I mean it's not easy you know and we have at least we have found a way just as I was saying today this morning we we were training you me Taylor Melody and there is always something that like in training I mean there is always some kind of miscommunication it doesn't matter that we have trained for I don't even know now how many years together and you would think everything should be ironed out and we should there's always this little well be and and it could be also because I'm thinking well we've been training for so long that's a given we we should and so these little things and then we get into this >> right right but right now it's actually >> let me see it >> right >> no no no >> and but Now we're having fun with it. Like where we're truly having fun with it and we're taking notes at the same time of what we need to change. >> Yeah. >> But if we need to go or whatever and then laugh about it and then go back. Well, I think I also got to the point that I really realized that I got so humbled and you know because my thinking was like okay not my thinking was like I'm like trying to like understand my whole journey from you know like how I started and and the whole thing you know it's just that um >> you should mention a little bit because I mean you spend so much time just going to to what what was it the >> camp training >> I will tell in a second but um just and it's not that I oh yeah I could say I was lucky I wasn't lucky I was just knew that what I want to do like anything I would touch in my life like it's either you go for it or you don't do it there was no half way doing things like and the moment I like got into dogs and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, this is super cool. I want to do it and it's like fulfilling me. I love dogs. It's just like a >> and it became number one priority just >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like like anything I would do in my life, it's either I do it or I don't do it. Like there's no in the in the middle like half ass. Like I just don't know this word. So, it's either all in or you just don't. So, I went all in and and and and I don't know how. And from the beginning, I had this I'm like, "Oh, yeah. I I'm just going to go world champion." Like, this was this was and I and I really meant it. I wasn't

just saying it. and and somehow um from the beginning I was around people that already been to world championships did quite well. Um, so I had this um chance to to be around really good trainers and and somehow I also knew instinctively what is the bad training or what is the training that it it just doesn't make sense to me. So I I and I would go um I would >> so you would kind of question knowing you and your personality even though when you started and this is my guess but even if it was let's say let's say I mean you've trained with Edgar and so many others but even if they suggest something you would always be like well but why are we doing this because it doesn't quite >> always have to make sense to me uh on a level of deep communication with the dog. Is my dog understanding really what I'm trying to tell him on her? Are we speaking the same language? Um and that's something that just was very natural to me to begin with. So yeah, I mean I I since I got hooked, there was no weekend that I just every weekend I would be somewhere in a different country in Europe training dogs. I would spend weeks >> and we're not talking Yeah, we're not talking a weekend. We're talking a a week long camp training camps, you know. >> Yes. I would go Yeah. I spend weeks. Well, it was a lot of fun, right? >> Right. I mean in Czech Republic, Austria, I mean I mean any countries you can think of in in Europe like I would be going and and watching um >> so let me like I what you know what I'm thinking about somehow because of that is um like when you when you are training and you're preparing a dog, any of your dogs, what what goes through your mind during this preparation stages? Like what how how do you see the whole picture of okay, I'm training this today and tomorrow I'm going to do this, but this is where I want to get like how what what happens in your mind? >> You mean like like let's say right now? Sure. Any Yeah. Like I mean any like you can think of well with Glenda which we're going to definitely talk about but then you have a very young dog that you're training Muring. So what what I curious to hear >> is uh how do you see the dayto-day training and the preparation and that dream that you're chasing and and how does that like what happens every day? So always starving for perfection which is a wrong for perfection in my world. >> Perfection. >> Yes. In my world how I um perceive certain exercises.

Um, if it's just >> Do you think you're the kind of trainer that is more of the let's go, let's get it done or taking more time or how pace? >> Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Definitely. Let's It's not uh let's go and get it done. It's never that way because there could be training that we just gonna do couple exercises but I I think I always have in mind to to make sure that I touch every exercise that it's not forgotten that it's that it's touched and when I so let's say or just like so okay I'm I'm going to do the dumbbells. Yeah. And I'm going to work on the dumbbells. Sometimes it can be just the flat dumbbell and I'm just going to focus on this or go through the all of it. Um but then I I got to make sure that I touch all the all the pieces of my of the routine. Um yeah, that's how I keep it in mind that I feel that I worked on them. Um I I put the same amount of time to each exercise. Each part it's not even exercise. It's each part of the routine. >> The chain of the behaviors. >> The chain of the behaviors. The the exercise the all the leading like I feel that I worked on this throughout the um leading up to the the competition. Then I worked on this and and I'm satisfied and and peaceful that it's done >> like it's done and it's done in a way that >> I know when I put it together on the competition it's going to work out. >> It's going to be nice and smooth and I am not going to have surprises. And I I kind of So, so how about do you like let's say tomorrow it's just another training day as it always is, right? We don't know when it's Sunday. We don't know when it's uh national holiday for us. Somebody has >> one more one more thing I I just thought of. Um unless there is something that me personally does not feel like you can tell me it looks good and you know like we've I've said that many times but I don't feel it's good. It does not feel good to me. >> You don't have the confidence in it. >> Yes. And you can tell me from the outside it was beautiful and it was nice, but I know that I don't have that 100% confidence and the Yeah, I always say the word feel like I have to feel the harmony and the like I have to feel I'm I'm just missing the word right now. It's the um >> you don't have the confidence to trust that this is a solid behavior probably or or what that you're gambling a little bit and it's not like almost guaranteed that you're going to have it like like my I guess I have still internal struggle um let's say how much time we spend on the healing And it just had to come like there was

just so many pieces that I had to work on. Um you know, you know the like how many things is going through my head, how many things I have to watch for and how long it took me to just >> go and do it. and and it felt like now now I can just do it, you know. It was like my internal struggle and learning and um >> Yeah. >> Yeah. There was a lot of new pieces that it's just had to come together while right now I and I didn't enjoy it. I mean it's just when you're like >> Well, yes. And then to to to kind of bring the the listeners to the point here. The way we heal, the way we teach healing, it's a little not a little, it's actually radically different than the vast majority of doct trainers. And it's not about being good or bad. It's just what we are what we are trying to show in healing. And to us, free healing starts with walking naturally. And naturally means you don't put that hand out there and keep the dog in a pocket in a safe place, but actually bring the hands and move the hands in a normal way. allow the dog not to velcro themselves and feel safe, but really so so all these little details that are so little, but they start to get more and more appreciated, which we like. Um, they are not easy to accomplish. Like you can you can very quickly with some food luring and or some certain targeting magnetic balls, you name it, you can you can get to the level of so-called competition healing that everybody would have. And but but if you look at the the healing that like let's say you did this year at all competitions, it's it's a very different look. And I I know that some people can't recognize it, but some people do. And some people recognize it kind of subconsciously, but but what you're talking about is is this elements of different pieces of the training >> that to some are not a big deal. To some are very minor changes and they are definitely the type of trainers that do see it and do appreciate it. however they understand what it takes and and it's not easy to accomplish. So that that's definitely a thing. >> But the thing that's what's actually drawn me to your training from the beginning because as I said like before I actually got your videos, I've seen all the big trainers. I mean, they're still big trainers. There are still the world champions. Um all of them. Um, and I watched the training I I was going and and watching and and there was just always something missing. Like there was always something that it's kind of like where can we do a little bit more and a little bit different? And instead of trying to trick the dog

into doing something without understanding what they do, really give them a good meaningful okay this is what I do and this is why I'm doing it and there is that connection >> and I've tried it all. I've tried all these methods. And of course you you go to a seminar, you get excited, you you know like all that bus and whatever. And I do a little bit and then I'm like sitting in my backyard with the dog and I'm like okay this is just like like something is wrong here. like I just don't >> it looks a little fake >> right >> to us right and >> but let let's I I don't want to like that's kind of what what where I was going with is like let's say when we're talking about your training and what's in your head and how you go about it going back to this is it how do you analyze guys and when do you make a plan like you know me like I get out and I train and I think that's where we are different you put quite a bit of thinking at after training and in the evening and you I don't know if you create a plan for the next time but you kind of analyze way more than I do for the next time you're going to train. Tell me tell us about this more. >> I guess what will be easier is like let's say you knew that we're going to do obedience today with with Glinda. >> Mhm. Mhm. What was my plan? >> But it wasn't what what I'm interested and what I kind of want everybody to kind of get a feel of is when was exactly that you decided what you're going to be doing? like how does that happen? And maybe today was a little bit different, but for the most part, >> yeah, >> maybe today was a little more spontaneous, but I don't think you are as spontaneous as >> No, I always Yeah, I always have in mind what I'm going to do for sure. Um, it was just because uh >> I mean I haven't done like after the World Championships, I haven't really done much with her as far as obedience. I think I do maybe two sessions and I um've done some dumbbells and recalls and and I think sendaways. Um so of course for me it's natural right now. I have to work on the healing. I have to work on the bow turns. I have to you know and and for this like I need you to be around. So that's a good time for me to like okay that's what we going to do today. Um but besides today like let let's take take some let's take up a month before the last world championship you were in >> and you're about to go out and train. How does it how does your my mind mind like when do you create >> because I know that this is really where we we differ like I'm it comes very like I and maybe maybe I do have a plan ultimately >> maybe something goes on in my head in the background but I don't feel that

like I I know that there are times that you just sit down and you analyze and you're making plans even though we're watching a movie or whatever, but you you're really getting ready for tomorrow for training. That's clear to me. >> Okay. The one thing that comes into my mind is um I know which exercises I have very solid um and again I still need to touch up on them. So, you know, it's it's it's there. Um, and there are exercises that require more more work. Do I This is not even work for for the dog. It's work for me. And I think I'm trying to always get the best besides the exercises, but the feeling, the from my dog, you know, like the the emotions, the right emotions. Um, >> is it the battle of having the structure and the relability and the emotions and >> when when to really break free and go crazy or when to keep going on with the routines? Is that kind of where it's going or it's different? >> Man, I have to have to think on this one a little bit. Like I can help you like I know like one of >> some of the differences between us >> like you can you will go to a trial or you will go to a training session and then you will watch it like you would watch it if I filmed it on the phone or if it was a trial and you would watch it and you would watch it >> and if we have a counter you probably are getting >> you're making your own video viral on your phone. >> If we go from this Yeah. I've always been watching my performances. Yeah. >> On the competition. >> I mean, I could watch it and watch it >> and watch it >> and watch it >> and watch it. I mean, we're talking I will break >> deep analyzation. I mean, no question about will break down my whole obedience, all protection from the moment I walk on the field, greet the judge, go to the starting point and I watch I watch every step of my routine. >> And what what goes into your head? Like what are the >> Oh, I what are you taking >> as far as what are the takeaways? Where what do you are you immediately saying, "Okay, this is what I need to really work on or how does it go?" >> Um, yeah. I I I see the things that I got to work on, I can make better. And I know I can make better because I also at certain point I'm like okay this is just I better leave that alone because I'm just going to break something else. Um the other thing that it's and I've been always that way and I always had a certain picture in my head um how I want to show my dog and how I how I want my dog to look or feel more not to look because yeah look is just how I want my dog to move and and

>> it's the sing between the >> sing the harmony you know all this words but that I'm really striving for this >> so you watch something and then what go when like again back to the original question when do you think or or can you even tell cuz like I cannot for myself but I think that you your your brain goes very different when do You say this is what I want to work on the next session. And it can be 5 minutes before the session or it can be the night before or a week before. But do you like I have a feeling that you do make this commitment to I this is what I need to do. >> When does it happen? So yeah I after watching the the performance and watching how the dog goes and you know what is happening the next thing I will do I will watch myself I will watch myself to see if me as a handler I did something that my dog just haven't seen you know being being on a big stage being nervous being you know all this like did I do something stupid that my dog is just like, "Oh my gosh, what did you just do?" And if I those are very important moments to me because that that that happened to me many times. I'm like I think okay if there's something went wrong >> because it's losing points that it's on you and not the training of the dog. >> And that would be the big that's like the first easy thing that you can change, right? >> It's like what did I do? Did I say something that my dog is like, "What did you just say?" Or did I move unnatural? Something that my dog is like, "Why are you doing this?" Like, so I'm I'm looking at the dog. I'm looking I'm looking at the mistakes were mistakes. The things that I'm like, "Okay, this this should be better." And I'm like, "Okay, but what did you do that your dog behaved that way?" And of course, pretty much every time I find something that I did and I have to make it better for the next next one. >> Yeah. Good. I think I like this. How do you think we're different in this way? Like what do you think? How do you think I function this way? you don't watch your performances as many times as I definitely don't which it's good and bad like I but I just feel that I I have it but sometimes I'm wrong about it like I for example how long was the AWDF it's been at least five six month whatever right yeah >> I still have not watched it >> because I kind of have in my head I have a an ultimate picture of what I need and and one competition doesn't really force me to change something. But for you, it's really and it I think it's a good thing because it kind of focuses you on well I I cannot let that go. I need to see how I can improve it. Right. >> Right. Because I also want to improve as a handler.

Um, I mean, my training changed style, you know, it it evolved and I always starve to get better. So, and I don't want to mess up my dog. So, I'm like, I know it comes first with me. So, >> yeah. >> So, you I mean, we've done quite a bit even together. I mean, I don't know how many times we both of us were in at the same time in the world championship, but you have your own share of being on the American team. You did it with a male and a female. And sometimes people have the preferences and even right now you have a male that you're training for Mondo that we're going to talk about and you have the female that you're doing IGP. Um how where do you stand with >> male versus a female? Like where is your >> Yeah. After training both it doesn't matter to me. Good dog is a good dog. That's it. That's how simple it is. I used to think male. >> No, it's really if there is a good dog, it's a good dog. There's no >> gender human uh aspect of things like like a a female versus male competitor. What are the advantages and disadvantages? And what do you think uh um what comes easier and where is the part that you're like, man, I I wish I'm a guy right now or the other way around. I'm I'm glad that I'm a a a female or does it make any difference? >> I don't think so. Not anymore. Not anymore. I used to think some weird things, you know. It's just, >> you know, that but I think it's like when as you actually >> um >> so you think the the kind of fake smiles that the girl make at the judge in the basic position or stuff like that? >> Yeah. >> Do you think that affects the judge or not? >> I hope it doesn't. You know, this is like >> it shouldn't, but do you think it does? Um, >> me as a guy, if I have to say it, I think it definitely does. Even if even if you don't want to, unless it's way too fake and and it doesn't come, it really doesn't come even a tiny bit uh interesting. I think it affects a guy, but you don't think so. Well, >> I mean, let's start like this like how you know like the the this is the I think it's very cool conversation when I think >> I'll tell you something. Okay, I'll tell you something. >> Long time ago, we're talking um yeah, we're talking beginnings. We're talking 18, 20 years ago, right? I had no clue. I I just got into IGP and whatever. And you know, like I for me it was just like, man, I just want to train my dog. I want to do good, you know, like I want to uh grow as a as a handler. Like none of those things matter to me. >> Sure.

But I've heard that from other women competitors. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, which was like, okay, really? Like, is there a thing? And >> yeah, like >> which is which is ridiculous, but again, I've heard that >> we do everything ago, too. We do everything to make the points or we should I I'll give a little bit of a like let's say when when I I'm about to go to a competition and I think what what what would be my outfit be what would I wear? My concern, my number one priority is always how does the dog going to see me within the field? Then if I'm healing, how big and how floppy things are. So I would be like all all of my >> well I would say 99% of course I would care a little bit about how I look but for the most part the the main priority and I think that's kind of most guys in the dog world we think of let's be comfortable and not confuse the dog and perhaps find a way because of what we wear. >> Yeah. >> To help them. >> I feel that it's not quite the same with the women trainers. >> I can totally see it, but that is not something that I would I ever thought of. For me, number one priority was like I need to feel comfortable >> because I if I don't feel comfortable in the clothes I'm wearing, I'm just going to >> Let me stop you here because this is interesting. >> What what a guy thinks of what is comfortable and what a girl or a woman thinks what is comfortable. It's >> like as I was saying like for me comfortable is hey you and me the dog >> right? And I feel that women and it's I think it makes sense if I probably if I was a woman I would also be this way is what makes me feel comfortable if I was a woman is also how everybody sees me besides how we heal together or something. Am I wrong or or >> Well, if you I think if you think this way that is um >> because if you feel good. No. >> Right. Right. Right. I mean, >> okay. >> It's a tough one. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. It's not. It's not actually. It's not um Well, I can just speak for myself. what I've seen on what I see right now on the competition field. I question at times because I'm like this is not a um what do you call catwalk >> a fashion show >> a fashion show. It's like I understand and I totally understand as a woman like you want to look nice and and clean and like present yourself >> and we want you to look nice, >> right? But for me there are there are limits. [Music] >> There are limits. I don't need to show my body. >> I don't need to be half naked to show >> and it's actually for me it's like I don't want you to I don't want you to be

focused on this. >> I want you to be focused on my performance. >> Good. Good one. And I want it to look uh very clean, very presentable. But the more you show your body, it takes away from the actual performance. >> But maybe for some some women doesn't because it it is a such an important factor to mentally feel comfortable. You know, it's kind of like I I need to have the makeup. I need to have I I have to feel good about how I look to everybody and then I can really perform sometimes that that is a thing. No. >> Well, then then then >> I mean that's my guess on yourself. >> Um then maybe there is a different underlying problem. You know, I I I you know, it's like I'm saying like, you know, you look Yeah, you can put makeup. You You can put makeup and you can put makeup. You can be dressed and you can be dressed, you know. It's it's just um again, I do not want to draw any attention to my appearance. and I still can feel good about myself to to emphasize the things that I want to emphasize. But again, like for me, it's I it's it's still like it's the natural beauty and and >> yeah, >> I don't want to emphasize things, you know? I want to look in the mirror and I'm like, "Okay, this is this feels good. This is me, you know." Yeah. And when I feel that way, then I can show my dog. It's like, okay, like I'm I'm in my own skin. I feel good now. I can show, >> you know, I don't need to think about my appearance, you know, like that. That's just too much focus on something that Yeah, if there's too much focus on this that it's like we're confusing the the the um >> but again, you would do it if if that was if you recognize that that would affect your performance. would make sure that you will eliminate. >> No, >> I would not. >> No, that's not my problem. >> That's really not my problem. Um and and I wish that it's not happening. Um because it's quite ridiculous. Um I can I can recognize it immediately on the field. >> Yeah. But women look at women in a very different way than how >> you know guys would look at the women. Let me ask you a different thing with and and that's another kind of difference between how we like if you ask me how many times I've done world championships or or whatever like those kind of statistics are very vague in my head to where if I ask you and know that you will tell me exactly but the question that I have is a little bit different and this is if what did change if anything about how you looked let's say the your first and second time you went to a world championship to 2025 doing a world championship as the handler. >> Yeah. and the stress and the demand and what you wanted to show and how did you

>> Yeah, I mean for me it was very um it happened very quick too quick that I um been to my first world championships. Um yeah, I don't I don't know. It was, you know, my first national ever with my dog and here we are. We're going to world championships. Um, and and and it was just, you know, I mean, I just started like it was literally I just started my dog was two and a half years old. My my first IGP, my first nationals that we're going to watch. I just just excited. >> The dream was just >> Yeah. It was just too fast. Like it was just like oh my gosh. Like it's just like this is crazy. Like this is like now when I look back I'm like man it was good. Okay, it was good and bad because it humbled me a lot. you know, I came like with this like, oh my gosh, I rule the world. Like, look at me. You know, like two years into IGP, I'm doing it. You know, I was like, bam. Um, but I just didn't know also like I had no like okay I mean I had a good training but training and and good trainers and training but just going to the competition all this like it's no way you you can know everything like you just going to experience this as you go. Um and and >> and now 2025, how is it different? >> Cuz I remember before like I don't know if it was a week or two weeks before you already had the butterflies. You already it was like >> there was the a different level of pressure that you put on yourself was because of the realization what it takes or the experience or how did it not build up to becoming something else. >> Yeah. because um I actually realized that I'm I'm capable like I'm I'm really capable to >> to do really good and >> and that's good and bad, right? >> That's good and bad. Yes. Yes. Um but it was very um I mean I was excited. Of course, I'm every time I'm excited, but I'm excited to show like I know there's a good training behind and I'm a different person. Um, I get excited, but I know that I don't let this excitement to just throw me off. And just it's more more of a like okay you're excited but you have to put this energy >> like you still have to show right >> so don't get distracted and >> the realization that it's not so easy maybe >> yeah I mean it's you know it does not get easier >> for sure >> it's crazy like I thought I'm like the more you compete it's get it gets easier it does not it actually gets harder when you realize that you have something to show something different and you do have a big chance and it's on a different level. It's >> so you would would you say that you you you you kind of where you are right now you have to you have one extra component

how to navigate and and overcome and that's the the pure pressure of of the realization of what it takes. >> That was the first competition this one. Yeah. When I realized I'm like >> I will tell you >> I I have to prove something. I have to show something like it's it's just this expectation and it's not uh it's it's it's it's the expectation that Yeah. I mean I put on myself and and knowing what I'm capable to do and and I just like pray that it all comes together, you know, like >> Yeah, >> that is something interesting. I'm going to say here and as I'm talking you will know already my question. So when I when I first started competing in a world level, people didn't expect anything. People didn't know who Ivan Balabanov is. I it would be my time to go and show and that would be the time when everybody's going to go to the booths and go shopping or get beers or whatnot. And that that was very good for me. eventually I mean I I don't know was it 2000 2001 with Jungle I I get to be vice world champion at FNBB by one point me and Kunut folks had this run to the end and regardless of how that went but but that's when things changed and and they changed very drastically like like just like this like boom Um, the next time I was at the World Championship, I'm just getting goosebumps talking about it because you you know where I'm going with this. It's like, okay, well, Ivan Balabanov is coming on the field. Let's go watch him. And now nobody's at the footstands and things change and there is that pressure that I had to learn how to deal with. Now for you, you kind of carry that pressure simply because you have the same last name as me and you're my wife. >> So tell me about this. >> Yeah, it's not easy. >> It's definitely not easy. It just comes with the last name and >> like on your on your >> People look at me. Yeah, people look at me through you. Do do you yourself feel like you have this pressure that you put on yourself because of you and me being who we are or is it more because of what everybody else's expectation is? So I I personally I don't um I mean I it's just just comes with my last name but I've never and again that it's it's um it's almost like from the beginning like I never okay I never had easy Um, you know, when you want to accomplish something and you have a clear goal and you're just going for it, like you going to hear, you're going to hear behind your back, you know, things that woo a lot and it was not, you know, an easy journey, but I I just again, as I said, like if I have something in my mind,

>> But you never had that opportunity >> to just go on the healed and showed the way I was telling you like you go and you show and nobody really >> Yeah. Never. >> You just kind of sneak in. >> Yeah. >> You never had that. I never had that >> even from the very first. It never bugs me because um um it it never it never bugged me because um I'm used to I'm used to just people talking um not necessarily good things. So I'm I'm just a part of my life. So, it's just be became a long time ago in noise um for me and it just never affect my showing. Um and plus I I I do things for myself like I I'm my own critic. I'm my own worst and best friend and I don't need anybody to tell me things or you know even even with the judges you know I've heard so many critiques and you this and it's like and I can hear and I can >> but I already know what they're going to say like I am I am so aware of my performance >> that if there is something that they gonna Hey, and it's going to make my face like, oh, okay. Like, I will go back, you know me, I will go back and watch. I'm like, where did he see that? What's he talking about? You know, and then I'm like, okay, I have no clue, but I'm not changing anything because this just not exist. So, um it's just never been a problem to me. You know, the only thing that um unfortunately I I um experience um because of my last name. It's actually the opposite. Like I feel like I've never got a break. Like I was always actually >> I probably agree with this too. always just okay let's >> just because >> it's assume that you you should the expectations are different and it sucks I know >> oh this or you know sometimes I think um you know I mean you've been this for a long time and and you've had your friends and enemies and whatever and and I just pay price for it you know and I'm like it's okay you know it's okay I'm just going to do my job and I'm just gonna I always think I'm like I'm not going to have that affect me. I'm just going to do my job. I'm just going to get better and leave that noise behind me and get better. If somebody can see it, that's great. If not, too bad, you know, like and and like I don't need like to tell me. >> It is a unique position that you're in. For sure. For sure. And then that's um something else that I think it will be interesting for everybody. Um how do you think how do you think we are different in our approach to the training? Like how would do we plan and how do we go about it and how do we like what do you think? That's an easy one because sometimes you you you know you're like why why don't you do this or you're doing too much or whatever like you I mean you're a good

you kind of make good checkpoints for me which I think I do for you too but where are we different and how do we complement and where do we clash in in power. I think um I think I um one thing definitely you help me with it's to um I would get so hard on myself like I would just oh if something goes wrong it's stuck in it's just stuck in my head for for ever and you you are able to bring me back and it's just okay let's just do it >> or do this the end of the world. We haven't broken the dog. >> Yeah. And for me it would be the end of the world, you know, certain sessions, you know, in my head. It's just like I can make a soic in my head that it can hunt me for just like the training the tracking session I told you about from Poland. >> Yeah, you should tell the story. It's good one. Oh yeah. >> So she goes back home to Poland which is kind of home but not quite anymore. But anyway, she goes back to Poland with the idea because in Florida we don't have good good tracking. So kind of make a combo see the family but also do tracking. And so she goes tracking and what happens? >> And right after tracking I call Ian and just telling him how bad was my track like how I mean it was >> the end of the world. >> This was the end of the world in my world. This was the end of the world. Like I I just get emotional that times like I just that's oh that's the good thing like I just get emotional and like you bring me back to reality you know it's just that balance that it's like hey just see things how they are you know and then you you know I told you what happened you made a plan to do another track tomorrow of course the next track was amazing but then And like this is in my head, you know? It's just like, okay, like my track looks like for me really terrible. Like I have to It was this year and I have to help her on the whole track, but I forgot. I mean, not the whole track, but I mean, like a lot of this, it's just like I had to help, but I forgot to mention that. And then and then after the fact when I come down when I talk to you and I'm like realized like oh well um she hasn't track on this since last year and also I laid the track and there was a storm like like big storm going through that while I was going last leg on my track I barely could walk because the wind and rain is it's like like almost not making me move. I forgot about all that. And then it rained on my track. Then the wind was there and Yeah. I forgot that maybe I shouldn't be tracking. Maybe I should just leave it alone. Yes. So what about when you when you watch >> but at the time I just didn't see it and then you know you just kind of like hey hold on

>> how about you really made it impossible so she still made it. When you watch me train, how is it when you are actually and you are at times a very important part because I do have my opinion and sometimes you have to fight with me because I am wrong and you know that I'm wrong and te tell me a little bit about this that would be interesting. Well, I mean, if I see something that is happening, I will tell you about it and you're going to either take it or leave it. >> And most of the times I fight about it. >> Um, >> or >> No, no, no, no. I think you learn also uh Yes, you learn also to listen. >> Um, yeah, you you learn to listen. So, it's not always that that um you're just going to stuck with your no that's how >> but there are times where you're like you you do also do what I do to you which is cool and this is like okay time out like >> like you're going too far you're demanding too much or you're >> you you forget that >> he needs he he's asking for >> something from you you're not giving it and These are important. >> These are times that I >> can miss and you bring me back. >> Yeah. I'm trying to for you not to be in your head, but but watching the dog in front of you and and just like, hey, that's what he needs right now or she needs or Yeah. Because I think it's a it's a um at times, as I said, like you're in your head. you're just like going to do this like a guy like okay I'm just going to do that but it just doesn't go like this like you go and do this but you also have to along the way like you have to think who is next to you and you have to make sure that that dog does the right thing but also makes makes it the the way to feel OT, you know, it's not just go like a train machine. Yeah. Machine. Yes. Robot. Yeah. It's like No, no, no, no, no. You have to. >> Which is cool. I appreciate it for sure. >> Well, now I can I >> again like it it took me it's it's took me a while to become who I am. And I mean, of course, and and now I have all confidence to to say it. And and again, at the the end, you're just going to bottom line, you're just going to take it or leave it, you know? It's But I said that. So that's um that's important. >> Here is the followup question to this, which is genuinely I'm interested because it is a good question. Um, so we know over the years of course I I'm influencing you and I'm teaching you and all that. However, I am also always open to something being injected into me to change. What do you think like where the places that you kind of really have a good influence on me and and to to kind of really move me from a certain place to a

different place when we train when I work with my dogs? Where where are the times that I would really help? >> I love the moments. It's um for me is always analyzing if if if what you're trying to do with a dog if the dog has enough of the previous knowledge to move on to this. But I also, you know, it's it's like a struggle in between like, you know, sometimes you just go from step one to like just go so fast and you make it happen. But sometimes like I can track back for me where was the broken link >> and I haven't given enough >> and you haven't given enough of time to for this to like be done and now you can move on. I think that that's really the only thing I I can think of because that's how I do analyze my my training with any of my dogs. It's it's again like it's the performance itself what I'm doing and is this fair enough, you know, is the dog has enough knowledge for what I'm asking next. And I, you know, >> I, you know, like for like on my end, probably the the most important times is the uh um the challenge between going through the motions and routine and behaviors and maintaining the connection. And every time you have said in whichever way you would say it, but it basically really point that I'm missing the connection with my dog and that he's still a dog and and so on and it's something really and I the moment every time you've said it I'm like [ __ ] and and typically I would say for the most part I immediately recognize it >> but it works the opposite way for me because >> where like a like a let's say if I train with I don't know Yanni or or Mark Sakoi or whatever have like guys training that the emotional connection can like we think about it but you can stay away to where you you're like you're losing him and he needs you, you know, >> right? No, no, no. I I I totally get the um but yeah, I mean you're guys so that's a little bit different but so it's good to have that women touch to like hey yeah >> would you say that Oh, let me just with you. It's the same. I would go the extreme the other way and you would bring me back to like, hey, now you need to get things done. >> You know what I'm saying? Like it's that balance in between, >> you know, feminine and mas masculine and it just has to constantly work together. Mhm. >> So, cuz you say there is too much, you know, guiding and for me there's too much sometimes, you know, I want to be >> Yeah. And then you bring me like, "Hey, >> wake up." Yes. >> It's a good conversation we're having. Um I mean, it's good for me. I don't know. >> Oh, I love it. I love it. We actually I mean I mean we talk a lot, but I think >> that's a little different.

>> Yes, that's a little different. Um, I want to jump into something that it's always um, it's kind of mind-blowing about your dogs. And I'm talking all of your dogs. I'm talking from any dog that I can think of. You would go outside and your dogs, including little Rocky, they will all be like little statues, like sphinxes, you know, waiting at the door or they end up on the top of the couch and anywhere where they can kind of look and they wait for you. and they wait for you like I I can go and pog them and they're like I'm waiting here. Um and I mean we live together. I know what you do. I don't see anything drastically different than what I do with my dogs, but they none of them really at least I don't think they do that. And >> that kind of leads me to to the actual questions. What do you think makes a dog truly love the work, the training, besides the reinforcements, besides food or toys or whatever that is? But also in the grand scheme of things, what is the secret? How are they like this? What happens? Do you even know what you're doing? >> Well, I don't do it on purpose. It just happens. That's the thing. >> And what happens though? >> I just truly enjoy their company. I just truly um enjoy the interaction. Um I give back. I'm very genuine with them. I give back what they give me. Um and it's on a on a much deeper level. Uh, I truly treat them as my companions, as um someone that I live with, I'm responsible for. Um, I give them respect. Um, I protect them. They're they're just part of my life, you know, and and um >> I mean they know it and you know how sometimes people would think well >> dogs do things only to benefit their themselves and you know >> well I had that that's the thing I had that before even getting into training maybe that that's why training came like the training itself like all all the things like the technical part or learning theories all this technical side of the training. It's just a of course you need to know it to do certain things but just that like you have to satisfy and understand this animal in front of you as a living creatures

that have needs that needs to be met and it's not necessarily you know like the training side of it like training actually for me it's like >> I do it be I mean I I love competing so I've been competing since I was like 80 years old so it's it's it's satisfying like what I like to do like and doing it with a dog and and and showing their potential not just from that training side of but actually like showing who they can be >> who they are it's the most satisfying part to me like that's what I'm starving like if I don't have that. >> But how do you think you'll get this? Because I know I I know that you can take any of my dogs right now and I don't know how long, but I would speculate that maybe within two weeks they will turn into the same like where is Natalia? We we want and it's not what what is really kind of interesting from even from just dog behavior point of view. They none of our dogs are, you know, nerve-wrack or or have separation anxiety. They don't destroy things in the house just because we live or whatever. They're just very patiently waiting with intensity to where my dogs are either sleeping or chewing on a ball or whatever they're doing. They just, you know, and it's very different. It is radically different. And >> I think they know that I don't treat them as a training machines. That's really a a a such a like the training and competing. This is such a like a on a side thing like everything else what I'm doing with the dogs on a daily basis matters to me more than >> than going and train for 15 20 minutes >> it pays it pays off in a very cool way because it's >> when you put Glinda or Icon down on the long down there just waiting there and they they're like this there is nothing else that matters. Or when you do a recall if it's 93° as it was and you say come and she literally cannot come any faster than what she does and she and you know that she doesn't do it because she's going to get paid with a ball. >> Right. >> It's it's the you and me. >> Right. >> Right. I think I'm very honest. >> Is there something to do with the I mean you like you take care in a really interesting ways when we eat at home. Your dogs are waiting even if they get or no, but they're like there. My dogs just whatever. Then the morning comes and you're like, I'm going hiking with my dogs and there is nothing to change your mind. And I don't know how much it is for your own mental health. I'm sure that has a big part. But do you think all this kind of outside actual training things that you do which I want to think you know there there is something to that I mean >> I think it's all that

>> I think it's all that >> and it it's just then it's the training part um >> because nor >> we already have a such a common language like that's um >> normally trainers will think of I'm going to create a fast recall because I'm gonna pay very much there's going to be some jackpot there's going to be whatever or I'm going to have this. I'm going to create this, but I'm going to create it during the training session. >> Yeah. I never had to be worried about it. Never even crossed my mind. >> Correct. >> Yeah. I never worried about >> but it's because what you do in the every day with your dogs like when you go like you know it's it's I'm going on a hike and then she's gone she's gone like for three sometimes four hours. What what are the hikes look like? I mean, is that I mean, there there are things that they like you're getting under the skin and I'm not saying it in a bad way, but somewhere they really start to get so in tune and attached and and the motivation level that they have. All of your dogs like and we will talk about everyone separately even but all of them when you tell them to come it's insane and it doesn't come because of a what they going to get paid with. Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. You derive me a lot. >> Share some secrets here. >> There's I don't Yeah. I truly don't know. Like I don't have a recipe how I make it. But when you're my dog, you're my dog. You're my dog and we are in this together. So, and I like I feel like like every day it's sharing the ups and downs, the joy and sadness and everything, but we are just always together. Um, and they know they can trust me and they know that I will not leave them behind. >> Like their motivation to do something for you, it's just it's really off the roof. and and I'm speaking from knowing and seeing >> but it comes from like for me like everything they're doing or they're not doing it comes very >> like from the inside like I'm either like mad at them or I'm very happy there's is like very clear in our communication or not even like like disappointed you know it's it's >> I I used that word before that I'm just disappointed. It's just it's like almost like why would you you know and it it breaks them more than than anything else because we spend so much time together and and yeah when we're go on a hike it's it's it is for me too because I need at some point I just need the solitude. I just need to go and and clear my mind. Um >> there is something you know there there is something that I want to mention and hopefully that may kind of help you to think of because a a very big portion of trainers somehow they're convinced and they're made believe because of just how things

are done. I guess that if we put some social isolation like if we keep the dog in a crate or if we somehow restrict some food and the dog gets food as the dog is working and and these are you know generally speaking a ways to create this kind of motivation but it's a different level it's a it's frustration and deprivation It's what it's based on. And you're creating a different kind of need. And your dogs are not in a crate. They are fed. They are spoiled. They have all sorts of toys all over the place. And you get far better results that I have ever seen by just allowing them to be than deprive them to trigger that kind of dependency. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Because they are not dependent on you. >> Yeah. Right. >> No. No. That's uh um and I know all these things, you know, as I got into IGP, especially long time ago, it's just like you hear all these things, you know, and and you're thinking it's the right thing to do. And um and then I'm looking at this dog and I'm like, what are we doing here? You know, like what what what is this? Why am I feeding you from a bowl doing whatever? Like why am I keeping you in a crate? Like you're my dog. you should be with me all the time and you should be learning and I'll be telling you what's good, what's not good and this way it's like just with little kids you know you show them the world how it's done and and how you know to be safe and and how you perceive the world and what's good for them to you know how to behave so they're good for the society and there's you know but if I just have the dog in a crate and then I take it and then I do some food whatever in a bowl. It's like I'm like this just feels so awkward. Like even for me like it would feel like I like we're too different like okay let's go like we like we don't know each other like it's like it's it's like so how I can like if I don't know you really who you are >> then then how I can create a strong connection that it's beyond just feeding and you know giving you a food and and and telling you like it it's just >> but the interesting part is that I don't think you're doing what you normally do with this intention in mind. It just comes as a some weird gift a bonus to >> Yeah. Yeah. That's I I don't even um >> Yeah. >> It it it's just comes. It's like so um I guess um I've I've been watching um my parents how they how they you know they >> raise you. >> Um no like how they um interact with with the animals and >> um >> yeah and there was always way beyond like They had zero training experience. Zero. >> But they always have this cool ass German shepherd. >> Exactly. And they they >> off leash doing just >> Yes. >> the coolest.

>> And I watched them since a kid. You know how they how they how they um interact with them, you know? They'll just tell them what they thinks and show them. And if you're doing something, it's like, "Hey, don't do it." You know, it's just so genuine. Everything is just comes in the right time and and right moment and if whatever you just like oh just go do your things you know and um >> so sometimes training and focusing on the training and using all this kind of deprivation that we're talking about they actually seems to sidetrack and almost bite you in the ass because it's a >> yeah defend dependence and it's fake like I need you, but I need you because yeah, I need to get out of the crate. I need to eat. I need whatever. And that is a very very different uh um take on how you can create motivation and cooperation with the dog. >> It just never spoke to me this way. I tried because again like long time ago that's what you hear. Oh, I remember the one of the first times when when you had the dog the the first dog that you got from me, Marox, and I don't even know where we were, but you would throw some food in the crate and I'm like, what are you doing? You know, there was this time. >> Yeah, I've been just doing probably things that >> of course everybody does. >> Everybody does. And I didn't know better. And um then I'm like, okay, that's just not for me. I I even have no Yeah. >> So, let's let's talk about um um Glinda because um he definitely very very very cool, very special dog. like everybody that we've had here, not forget about competitions, but everybody that actually has know her on a personal level and also, you know, like all the helpers you take, Yanni, Vlad, uh, um, Enrico, anybody that has done anything with her, >> within 20 seconds, it's like, this is a very, very cool dog. And of course, um, you know, knowing Mia and she was the breeder and she she's somebody that also cares and knows what to look for and making the combination which eventually led us to to follow that bloodline and make bunch of more of them. And now I know that you you you know I mean you and me we had a a little bit bigger expectations when you this was the first world championships that you went to the FMBB and the FCI this year and there were some things that went really well some things that didn't go as well. However, in both competition there was for for the people that understand the sport and appreciate training but also appreciate quality of dog. It's very easy to see without just totally leave the points alone to appreciate both the quality of the dog and the training of the dog and and you have that and you

know that and I think this is why regardless of the mistakes both times you won the trophy of the best female dog in the competition which is a uh one of very special ones especially when it comes down to breeding And from looking from a breeder perspective, uh, a lot of times, you know, trainers are like, "No, I need a male dog." And she she she's one of these females that is like, "You don't need a male dog. I can do way better than any of the top level male dogs." Um, tell me a little bit about the the both world competitions, what went right, what went wrong, and and what you learned from those looking for 2026 >> that no matter how good of a training you have and how good of a dog, I think I'm starting to realize is the fact of it. You kept saying this and I kept refusing that thought for a long time. The lack of draw. >> The luck of the draw. >> Yeah. The lack of the draw. >> Um, >> and the luck of the draw basically anybody that doesn't it's it really it it can be a a a critical factor. And basically what that means is like when when it's draw night and you pick your number when you're going to show obedience or protection and tracking and so on. And if you go in the very first flight doing obedience in a world championship in the very first day the judge no matter how they much they like what you do they going to have a little bit sharper pencil even though it doesn't make much sense but they would stay much more critical in order so they can they're afraid to if so high points to where it's like well >> what if a dog does better and so on and then on the other hand by the end of the day or by the end of the competition like let's say Sunday morning the judges are already their brains are a little saturated and and their their judgment no matter what they say it gets a little off and then they get also influenced by the crowd and so on and so on. So the >> the points can fluctuate not necessarily by the performance by strictly by the luck of the draw and that is definitely a factor. That's kind of as as a side note for people that don't understand what you meant. Um, >> yeah, I was just always refusing that fact because I'm like, okay, I'm either ready or not ready, whatever it's going to and and I still believe in that. It's just like I have to come in ready. Um, and like and opposite to you, like when I go to a draw, I'm like, okay, that's what it is, you know? like I I just going to pick a number and that's what it's going to be and I'm going to definitely do my best to to show whatever we have on that piece of paper. But um yeah, >> however, like let's take the last world championship, the one you got the second

best obedience, which I genuinely would argue with anybody that it was the best obedience. Uh but and you got seventh place overall. I mean, very very incredible work and placement, you know, total respect for that. However, because of the luck of the draw, you you what you picked as a draw, you had to do the long down first and then do your performance. And it was 93° and full sun and then for your protection, you just wanted to make sure that it's the same. >> So, it was probably just a little bit hotter. And one of the biggest concern for us was not so much how to, you know, do the rituals and prepare the dog to enter the field, but we had all sorts of cooling blankets and tricks to keep and just makes you focus on something that is important and that's the dog. >> That was the fresh main concern for me. Like I'm like I wasn't worried about the she going to pull through, going to whatever. I was just like, am I is my dog going to be okay? That was really my biggest concern. And you know that since I draw that and I check the weather, I'm like, okay, we have to make sure that my dog is not getting overheated. Yeah. >> Like that was that was my only concern. The rest I'm like, okay, we we will do our job. This was >> and then of course if you had a different draw you had the opportunity to show it even 65°. Oh yeah, that was >> in a cloudy nice early morning, >> right? >> You know, >> with a jacket and hats on, you know, but >> but this is the game. Yeah, that's right. This is the game, >> right? This is the game. And >> and ultimately, if you were to even handle a little better, there were points that you could make and not lose or correct. So tell me a little bit about this stuff. you can go FMBB or you can do stay with the FCI in Spain. Um um like in in the obedience at FCI where you lost the points in in the overall really fluid beautiful performance >> but there were few things especially like the basic position and she kind of consistently ended up coming >> how what was going on in your head and um Um did you think that you can even within the routine still make the changes? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I thought but I I caught myself a little bit too late. Um, I taught my I caught myself on a >> because one of the things is that you >> and and that's just again I I would put myself in the same basket here. We we don't help. We go and we show. And there are few people that do that. And every time when that happens, you get the appreciation of the dog training world because you're not saying down. You're not saying heal. You're you're very clean when you show. >> And that's that's uh >> but then there is that difference where

you can actually within the routine say, "Hey, next time you have to do this better," right? >> Yeah. Yeah. And it it was just um I you've been telling me all this little things how you would handle this and what I should do. Um I thought I could do something else. Uh but I caught myself too late. One thing that I learned for sure um and it happened this year really it happened this year to stay in a moment um which is of course very hard when you're you know like under so much pressure and and you're in front of that crowd and all this and and to still stay in the moment and judge every single step of your performance and adjust as you So what do you need to do? And to do that, you need to know your training very well and you need to know yourself very well. >> And that I learned um I literally learned that this year, >> right? That's not something you can learn out in our training field. >> No, no. I mean you you almost like not almost. just like I walk out and I know it's not to just go through motions and show my dog like I'm just walking. I'm here the most important person. My dog would just walk next to me without any purpose there. It's just stay with every single step of that performance. stay and analyze literally every single step what we're doing and >> cuz ultimately you are the driver. >> Yes. Yes. >> And what you do really really matters, right? >> And I caught myself a bit too late. I think I'm doing the right thing, but then I'm like, I clearly don't because she has those little crooked finishes, couple of them. Um, >> but was it because you wanted to show as clean as possible without helping and not knowing where you actually could have influenced her between exercises or how what what was going on or was it even something that you were acknowledging of besides okay that didn't go as perfect as it can? Well, it was um my voice um it was the way I would say the command my voice and um and well now I know after the fact that I have to train for all the voices that I can show at the championships and and I need to even from the biggest excitement um she needs to come in the right position. I know it's like for some people probably going to that sounds silly but that's how deep and detailed and my brain can get and and always trying to find like what did I do wrong that my dog did not perform >> and that's the insanity of of the evolution of IGP the level of of competence in the training and and competence in judging and the demand And what is actually what really means 100 points even is this even possible today because back even 5 10 years ago you know 100 points was not a I mean it

wasn't easy to get but there were times that they were given and and there is a very different understanding and also pressure of what it means to to the point that it's almost impossible to which >> for me I just tell you like for me it's um I know it's a performance so of course you have a certain um like when you're performing that's not how you are in a normal life you know like walking or doing things it's a performance so you have to create that that persona that's going to perform for that specific situation And but still in how I think about it, it cannot be so like deviating from like, you know, I c I see like all these robotic moves and all these weird, you know, things and I'm like, yeah, that's that's not that's not my picture of a handler. It's like I sure I don't walk like this in a normal life, but that's how I walk with my dog and that's feels natural to me and we both feel good about it, me and my dog. >> It's not like my dog is chasing me trying to guess what I'm doing or it's like no, no, no. We're we're in this together and we're moving together and every step is it's an art and I want to show that that's like I don't understand handler help. I I just doesn't cross my mind like it's it's just something that that if you need to do that that means that your dog doesn't understand what you want and I can pick on subtle handler help and for me it's like if you need to do that well then maybe you just should go a lower in your category because clearly if you maybe if you wouldn't do it then your dog wouldn't perform the command >> right >> you know like that handler had never existed to me like I just it's like no no no this is like no it's not in my reperto for sure. >> What is the did did your appreciation for somebody winning a world championship changed after this year of you doing the two world championships? because you've done before bunch of world championships, >> but I I really feel that this year was a a very different as far as your evolution, your growth as a trainer and the appreciation and like like Susan Miller winning the the the world championship, the FnBB, >> uh I mean the the FCI Um um the Swedish what was the Natalie >> Natalie >> winning the WSV yesterday um I mean we know actually both of them and and even if we didn't know but when you see them and they're pulling and fighting for every point and it's going >> and we're getting goosebumps and it's like always she don't know and finally yes You are the world champion. How do you see this today than than >> before the time >> I can be truly happy for this people you know because I know >> what it takes

>> what it takes. >> I mean this is insane. There is some luck factor and there is there's just like >> yeah there is and and but still you know it's hey we're going into this all together and let's see who's the best you know and and yeah it's just insane >> because I I personally believe that you have to get to a certain level and that certain level has to be the level that You not fooling yourself. You're not blowing smoke up your ass, but you really know that if the ifs are very few, you can be a world championship. But you weren't and somebody did it. And there is a a a different level of appreciation and and almost you know you you just feel like wow like amazing accomplishment to where people or trainers that are on their way there but they they don't even if they believe it they don't understand how much it takes. There is a different level of appreciation that comes when somebody wins coming from people that are so close and they can do it but they were not able for whatever reason versus anybody else, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. That's a that's a different um >> because sometimes it happens. It's kind of like the in in the music industry, the the one hit and you never hear from that singer or a band anymore. And it's a great song. Sometimes you can win a world championship, but man, that that is really like all the stars and everything has to line up and >> and with the people that are winning lately, you know that there that's not uh one thing the dice that just happens. You had work and training and understand >> and there was nobody else to really like threaten you, you know, it just happens. Okay. You know, like I look back and at some world championships and that's what I see. um you know where was just like yeah I mean you win this but but there are a lot of buts to me you know and and there are world championships where you're just like man >> whoever's going to be like this is really a a race you know like it's really and everybody could do it you know and it's just a different and then you know like this people will do it great again and again and again, you know, they will be always like touching the, you know, it's it's a it's a different there are levels in in being at the world championships. Even if you're already world champion, but then you just we never hear about you again, you know, that's okay. That's we are, you know, that's what what you just said, you know, it's it's um it was just luck. It was just whatever, you know, and and but there are people that Yeah. They they've been always there, you know. It's just that there are levels. There are just levels.

Good dog, good training is always beat. >> Take your mind a little >> away from IGP. >> Okay. >> Now, Vatar, which is your >> Yes. young dog also in some ways related to Glinda because of her we are doing muring with the dog and I mean throughout all the years that you've been with me you know about my passion of ring sports and so on but you didn't have like IGP was a the only thing for you and I tried sometimes to you know but it wasn't happening what happened like how did we decide what what made you be like you know I'm going to do muring because right now when I see you training you are very into it um how >> I just wanted to try something else M >> you know just wanted to go well. So going back to um yeah when I start you know when I hear sometimes people have the same stories you know like I would go and watch IGP and this but I would walk around and I would see different sports you know and and and I would get stuck with Mondo at FMBB you know because it's cool you know it's just cool to watch and it was different it was like oh from this precision freak performance performance to like this just circles that has to like just just so different worlds, you know. I would film and watch and get stuck and it's just like, you know, >> and feel bad that for the dog that gets confused. >> Yeah. But I had no clue back then. It's like what am I even watching, you know? But it was cool. It was cool then. I mean remember with one of the um female I mean Ava >> um that French ring um I mean she had already some training and I just took over and and prepare her for the trial with the the the one and I truly enjoy it but it was French ring like >> that's true I forgot about this. >> Yes. Yeah. >> So, you know, I mean, I with the title and I mean, I learned we had, you know, you know, it was like, oh my gosh, I'm learning from the best decoy in the world, the French ring. You know, it just was just like a, you know, I love that. I really love that. Like, I really enjoy this. um didn't think about Mona because I like the just the French like the the style of like okay this is like a real >> the war the war between the dog and >> yes there was something I'm like okay let's just do it you know Mondu at the time was just like okay this is just too much of this things coming and and you know I call it as a circus you know just like literally like we're in a circus right now. But now I have an appreciation. Um, you know, I've watched you with Kimba for couple years before I get the dog. I watched, you know, and I handle her and and I realized I'm like, this is not that easy. This is just a lot of like to prepare a dog for the the highest level of

ring sports. And man, this is takes a a a special dog. and training and and I'm like I just want to challenge myself as a trainer like you know like I'm just need something else to do to you know to to to not to get stagnant not to >> you know just IGP IGP I'm like I need to try something else and just and also something that I would never think I'm going to go into this I'm like okay I'm just going to do it and I'm literally learning with him you We're we're >> it challenges you as a trainer because the it it really needs a some different skill set and understanding of what what's important in the different program. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I don't know. I don't know. Like I really don't know. This is so new to me and and um >> and I'm just in this together with him. What are the parts that you like in like you really like in IGP and then what are the parts that you really like in Mondu? >> You mean like parts as a discipline or or well I love all the disciplines. There's no like there is no >> so if you have to say I like obedience better than protection or tracking or I like like in IGP which is your do you have a a favorite part? I at this point I do not have and I really never had because every part every discipline like talking about tracking obedience or protection requires different skill set and different approach. So, it was very uh like I was very drawn to it because I had to work in between so many different like emotions and like I mean not just the dog but me as well you know it was just that that roller coaster of like yeah I don't go in obedience with that attitude you know just like no I have to soften up and now we're like let's go Then I have tracking and I just have to be totally like okay >> you know it it's just fun to like play with all this the the emotions that >> the the certain discipline requires and and you know and so >> how do you see the bond you'reing >> like like with the limited experience that you have in it and but you're still we're still training very seriously. We have very uh high hopes and plans. Um what are the areas that you really really enjoy and what are the areas that you're like man this is >> the one that I don't feel comfortable with is that but it's because of my my um physical um restrictions. It's the wall cuz I don't see myself. >> Oh, jumping. Making the dog jump. That >> to help the dog. 90 pound. >> What if he's not making the jump? >> Oh my gosh. Yeah, this is just no no for me. So like I just I that freaks me out. Um then um as you know I'm very lost at the the I mean I'm I I'm better right now when you know we train more the the defense of handler.

It's just it there is actually so much going on that my brain is just like whoa, you know, from this like very structure IGP, you know, there's just certain things you need to do to this complete mess, right? >> And you have to find yourself >> like the sushi versus the hot pot. I'm like, "Wow, this is this is a big >> Yeah, this is a big um but it's good. It's good. It really challenge me." >> How do you think the one program helps you for the other program back and forth? Do you think you take some note and and something that benefits you that you can be like, "Oh, I can I or I can." or do you look at them as very different ones? >> Um, because like me as a helper, as a decoy, I constantly like I I I I would say that I benefit so much of understanding both and and how I can inject some elements of either one to the other >> that really can Right. The training aspect of it. Yes. Yes. That's the training aspect. Yeah. >> Because I mean if you think about the exercises and there is a lot of you can definitely what I learned in IGP. I mean it's it's just there's not that precision side but I mean it's dog training. So unless I don't understand the idea of the exercise um you know then I have to understand what is the the the final you know like I mean the big thing for me was the the basket right the I mean this exercise was just like object yeah god of object it's like >> oh >> the biggest puzzle >> the biggest puzzle I mean, it's not right now, but it's just like, okay, it's like, what am I doing here, you know? But I just just had no clue. Like, there's zero knowledge about this. So, and there's still like I'm just still learning so much. Like I I and and and that's one good thing that that man so many years into doing dog sports and training dogs what 15 years ago I thought I know it all. >> Mhm. >> And now the more I go I mean you hear me saying I'm like I don't know nothing. I don't know nothing. I can't I can't believe listening to social media and people it's like everybody is talking like an expert. I'm like, "Oh my gosh." >> But when you don't know what you don't know, you know? I don't know. It's just like, man, I can't believe I just can't believe like I still feel like I I'm I have little knowledge. Like there's still so much I can learn. when you get >> that's my my approach that's how >> humble I got and and open and with that attitude that's why almost might be a part of like I just want to try different things you know just because I have no clue and I just want to learn I just want to know because this ultimately will help me yeah maybe in some IGP or whatever you know this is just dog training you know

and just to realize like how much you still don't Oh, >> we're in a in a very fortunate position that um we can afford to find the time to train for completely different sports to the having the highest level of goals which is extremely time consuming. This is not something that uh um you know no matter how much you want to sacrifice it's it's very very very tasking and demanding and I don't think too many people can even afford to do that. Um >> but I think we're also training smart. It's not that we're throwing oursel in the same situation over and over again. And we always starving to like find the next training session is going to be something that we're going to accomplish and it's going to go towards our goal. Like we're not wasting a training session just to go and do things, >> right? >> That's that just never happens. Never happens. We don't just come out and do things. >> Yeah. >> We would rather just go and throw the ball. >> Exactly. That's why that's why it's so interesting because like every training session it's like uh just don't know what's going to happen but you know it's just like okay let's >> so when you think of muring and and you have your dog and you're training what are the what are the exercises or the training of certain exercises that you really like and excite you even if they're not coming easy to to you. But what are the the favorite pieces of it? >> I mean, I like them really all. >> Yeah. >> You know, there is no like uh I mean the retrieve is cool. How you know how they need to Yeah. I mean, how they need to just retrieve different >> just understand that as a concept and not not >> Yes. And that's actually not I mean for me again it's like a learning process. So >> of course but when you when you let's say let's say tonight we will train. We're not but let's say we would have what would be like oh I'm looking forward to train this one cuz I kind of enjoy it versus man that's a struggle. >> Um no no I you are right now >> where there is a struggle that's that's the thing that I want to go through the struggle >> I don't put the struggles away like if that's that's if I have a struggle I I need to resolve that struggle within myself and the training because that would just bug me too much and so let's say yeah that's that now the big thing big question mark in my head is that the the sand scent work. >> Mhm. The Yeah. the >> wooden objects >> which is like >> Yeah. >> That's the cool thing about monitoring because you have these puzzles and you can either go with what everybody's doing or you can be like, well, can I do it in some different approach? >> Different approach. And also like I I

for me it's it's not just do it. I never been just do it in any of the the the discipline or or sports is I need to understand why the dog is doing this. What is going through the dog's mind? You know, that's that's more that's more interesting to me to understand >> why is the dog doing certain things, >> right? >> Versus to just like have the dog do it. That's why that's why I never been satisfied with certain uh style of training because I'm like I'm not I'm I I don't want you to follow blindly something that you know like a bowl or something. It just doesn't make sense to me. I want you to work for me. I want you to to enjoy it. I want you know like and I want to know that you enjoy it and um yeah that's um so let's say like you know like we had the conversation with the woods right I mean you asking me always the question I'm like man like damn it just like >> and the question by the way was always like okay well we are at that stage of the training what is your next stage >> yeah and here I am >> which is always the interesting That's super interesting. And it's just my brain is just like, whoa. >> It triggers some thinking. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. It triggers a lot of thinking, you know. >> Um I know there will be some women and some young girls that listen, that look up and dream to get there. What kind of advices you will give them? And you're going to ask me that question. >> Of course, it is a I but it is an important question because Oh, yeah. >> You know, people, you know, >> when you don't know, you don't know and then you can get stuck somewhere or you can >> start to change too much. I mean, there is so many ways to screw things up or get disappointed. It's just not an easy route. Like, if you're to motivate and excite people that want to really excel. >> What would be some advice that you would give? Like you can think even trainers that would come and look for help with certain things or whatever it helps you think of, but but put yourself being being you. >> Yeah. >> Way back. >> Yeah. and you had that figure that actually could say, "Hey, Natalia, listen to me." Like if you have this opportunity to to somebody that is just kind of have the potential and but there is so much out there. >> I mean, think about why are you doing this? Are you doing it for the trophies? and to show off yourself or are you doing it for the dog? >> Can it be both >> without sacrificing the other? >> Well, you have to always have the dog in mind. And I know like I see all this crazy dog first, sport second, but do you really mean it? Do you really would stop when you feel that training isn't going well and I want my dog

well-being be first. I don't care about this. I'm going to move on. I'm gonna whatever, you know, like I'm not gonna if if at any time the well-being of my dog would be in danger. It's not happening. I'm retreating. There's no You're not going to see me. You just I will never go that far. But how can somebody especially a woman that doesn't quite understand but have the desire and the talent have the the even the courage to to kind of say well this is not going well or can we do something else? >> Well you have to make your choices. >> You have to make a make a choice. I mean like bottom line guess what I mean you're going to take that door home and something's going to be broken in your relationship in your daily living and just it's not going to and and don't you going to like not going to feel like something inside that that you failed like that's why I was saying like like I am here to protect my dogs I am here to to to be there for them to speak. >> Mhm. because they cannot but I am the one that that it's their advocate. So, >> but would you say they have to like find find people that they trust a little bit that they can take them in waters that they are not familiar and that may look uncomfortable and scary but still have some trust or this is where it gets very sketchy for people. you know. >> Yes. >> You have >> sometimes people are very >> you have to trust that person that you know like >> things going to be all right. Like for sure you cannot just go to to random person and and you know just that person is going to do some weird things and you're just going to be a bystander and and pretend nothing is happening. It's just like it cannot like it's just so you have to build some relationship um >> with a person kind of >> because it's an interesting one and very always very difficult one giving up on a dog too soon because you're seeing or you're not seeing the potential but you're just very prematurely making these judgments versus getting stuck stuck with a dog that you shouldn't >> have these expectations versus the person that has a nice dog and trains but always looks forward to make 100 100 points and only then they show >> Yeah. >> Like you haven't given up on a dog since I know you. >> Yeah. >> Not one time. >> Right. >> Right. And there are trainers that would give a dog, let's say, six months or a year. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And the time then there is the next one and the next one. And there is this chase of thinking that >> I don't have the right dog yet. >> Tell me tell me about that stuff. >> Yeah, that's the that it's my dog. We we make an agreement from the beginning. You know, you're my dog. So there's no

perfect dogs. There's no perfect dogs. There's always >> somebody that has a seven-month-old dog and they're training and they're hitting >> Oh my gosh. >> a wall here and there. >> Yeah, that's a normal process. I mean you you hit the wall for a reason >> like to hit the like actually I mean we keep saying this but you know like it's a are those dogs that when you hit the wall when the things are not going the way you want them to go that means that there's something you have to do to grow to overcome it to have better skills to to better understanding it's just like it's actually should teach you something to become a better person to become a better trainer for that dog to get the best out of that dog and not just wash it out because you have this crazy expectations of this and that. It doesn't exist in a normal world like nothing that comes easy. It's it's actually something you can enjoy. >> It's not interesting. >> It's not interesting no more. That's why like you know like I feel like that's why with Glinda like I has such a struggle with her like everything so far I feel like it came too easy to me you know like it's just like it went too fast too easy and and I'm like all right like that's is just not the um and then she came and she gave me in my world she gave me a lot of trouble to you know it's just different type of dog you you know, and I had to really grow as a as a person and a trainer. Um, but always I'm very thankful for these dogs because, you know, I believe that one day the stars would align and, you know, things will work out the way I want. >> What are the goals? What are the dreams coming up 2026 and on? for you as a trainer. >> Yeah. >> As a person and your dogs. That's a deep one. >> Um. Yeah. So that the star will align finally from all the Yes. from all the sides. Everything just going to come together because we're scratching it. We're scratching it and but you know that's the thing like that's uh we're scratching it but I know we're capable. So now I just let it let it we're going to do our thing. Um >> how do you deal with the disappointments and how people should take the the the difficult times when the hopes just crumble? >> Yeah. that day. >> Yeah. Um well, just the latest latest competition. Yeah. Just the latest latest uh world championships, you know, when we are doing protection and everything goes well. >> The whole part first part it's beautiful and then we have this big big mistakes. Then um well it's it's at times it's very unfortunate. It's disappointing that it just went the way it went. But then if this was before I would made it a big deal. I would made I would go into my

emotional you know like a lot of just things that I don't even need. And then I had you to just like put it straight in front of me um like how it was and what happened from the tactical part of the the whole thing, you know, and I can see it right now and I'm like, "Yeah." And so that's why I'm saying like I wish that next time all these things that you know I didn't know how to handle that better then from the other side of the you know uh being on a field helpers and whatever like and this is going to work out like I I believe that just everything has to align and I have this hope I still have this hope you know that uh one they everything comes together and and you know cuz all the things that happened it's just it's it's not not a training mistake. It's not a uh dog not capable or something. It's all there >> for me. It just has to happen that one competition like it's everything is there. There is nothing for me like and I may sound like very but I I know like I would never say that this way because I'm as I said like I'm very critical about my performances and you know that how I analyze and you know how I deep I can go into things. >> I know >> um and um to say that for me to it's like I know it's there. It just has to happen. >> You know what is really interesting? I I just as you're talking I'm thinking about it and and um I don't even I need to actually think to articulate myself but let let me just go off on it and see what happens but but there is this there is I mean it's different dynamics and it's very interesting once like where I am like I have checked the boxes I have worn what I had to win. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> and it's different. Not that I don't have the motivation and not that I don't want. Of course, I want to win again. But at the same time, I've checked the boxes. I've proven not to any I don't care about anybody. Well, I do. That's a lie. But I've proven it to myself that I I can and I, you know, and that's It's a I'm what I'm doing I'm looking at from a different angle that somebody like you and many like you that are right there but are not making it yet and there is a chance that you may not you may be >> three times vice world champion which is >> extremely admirable but you're not the world champion >> and where where as they were talking I was just somehow out of nowhere were thinking about Kut folks. >> Mhm. >> He's checked all the boxes and he is, you know, like in in the last few years like sometimes I'm like, man, what are you doing? Kind of thinking to myself. >> But now I'm like >> it's amazing. It's like he he gives everybody >> this >> very cool motivation and enjoyment about what we do

>> and and okay if you win absolutely amazing and hats off but if you don't enjoy what you do because we are in this thing you know >> um but again I think it's different when you've already checked the boxes versus when you're chasing it and when you're chasing it, it can become so disrupting and and really affect somebody's life in a very bad way actually and go like like really agree >> go bad, you I I totally agree >> and and there is I guess some way that people like I I know so many people that train extremely hard and religiously and doing and not necessarily doing the wrong things, doing the right things, but as we talked about the stars don't align yet and what do you do then and who you are in that position and it's hard one >> very um me setting a for myself setting a bar so high from the from the beginning I wasn't like I just want to do it for fun I was just like no no no I'm going to I'm going to go world championships I'm going to be a world this was my words >> because you have to in the one hand you if you don't think about if you never say I'm going to be a world championship >> I can put money that you're not going to be a world champion because you just are going you you're I mean there is something that you have to I don't know that's kind of too newagy kind of thing but you have to tell the universe that that's where you're going in some ways you know otherwise it cannot happen >> that's what I was going always that that in my mind >> but at the same time where I was going with this is you can anybody can do everything right And it doesn't mean because you have done that because you've paid your dues so to speak, right? >> You are okay here, you work hard. It doesn't work that way. That's what makes it special. >> It does. Yeah. It doesn't come that easy, you know. It's it's it's uh well then I had my checkpoints, you know, >> cuz it like looking at this, you know. I mean these are >> multiple world championship talking about Mia and me and and Mario >> you know and then no matter what you say and it doesn't matter that we've won bunch of times I bet you that all three of us if you ask you're still going to say the stars had to line up. It had to considering all the little things. just starting to have this thought this year, you know? It's just like it really has to lined up. Something just is beyond my I'm like and and every competition and every performance it's a lesson too for me. Just like the last one was a some I wish I knew that in the protection >> you got to dream, you got to train and you got to show up. >> Oh, that's for sure. and and you're going to be disappointed and you're

going to get checked and you're going to get humbled and if you really want to, you're going to keep going. You're going to keep going and you're going to just like me like I'm like, "Okay, like I'm there's something I'm missing." Like clearly I'm missing something. And hearing you like um it was a while ago like when you said you had the same dream, you know, right? That's what's going to happen. But then you started questioning like what if not when I heard you saying this I'm like okay >> you cannot question it for too long cuz then it takes >> right right but I'm like okay I'm like right no no no but you know just like oh there is such a question I can ask myself speaking of you know just like I can actually like think for a second about this what if not going to happen right like I've never had this >> important >> it was like this year beginning of the end of last year just like I heard it and I'm like oh so I can actually have a thought like this even the best people in the world have this question mark and you know it's just like >> and that's kind of where I was going with how how uh uh notebooks is right now for for the whole IGP community it's like yeah go for it but you can be fifth you can be 25th or you NBA World Championship. Enjoy the ride. >> Enjoy the ride. And and and really like it's it's it matters who are you training with and who is around and um >> like for me like there a lot of things I've heard from you, not even training, but just like being that person that it's like going through this and like just that question about the what if not going to happen, you know? I'm like, I didn't know that that question exist >> in my world. That question did not exist, you know, >> which is cool because I didn't have that question. >> And you know, I tell you something like this took a lot of pressure off my back. >> And I'm like, okay, now I'm like I'm just so hard on myself. Like I'm just like, okay, like I really have to like, you know, it should be enjoyable. It should. So this year like the whole competition that I've done I mean the FMBB then we have the nationals then we have another world championships all the things like I sure I I mean I get butterflies I get stressed I you know that's normal you know like it's it's you know it's normal competition time >> but my mentality and how I think about the you know I don't have that um >> it just it took a lot of pressure unnecessary pressure off my shoulder ers that you know it's just let's let's let's show what you got and you got good things going on you know and and I'm very confident it it it it took a pressure bring a lot of confidence

brought a lot of confidence into my showing and performances you know it was a it was a very you know those those moments where you're like a very turning point into your career when just randomly here and And I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is actually exactly Thank you." You know? Yes. >> I think that should be a wrap. I think we we went all over the place. I got some takeaways from the conversation. It was cool. Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> So, thank you for that one. >> And >> maybe a part two later, you know, at some point. >> Oh, we have it. Yeah, >> it's a given. >> Yes. Yes. >> All right, guys. Hope you like this. U share, like, comment. We will respond. Take care. [Music]