E450: 유대감 형성 - 그리고 유대감에 영향을 미치는 요소들

where we have that like really one special dog and i think that's like if you think of what that term means to me that's like the epitome of like that bond that you're looking for um but the bond could be something different it could be more you know maybe playful and adventure based or you know more just you know the the dog i go to when i'm feeling sick and i just need to like cuddle with someone so um i think i'm excited for this conversation because i think we're going to dive in really deep but so that's my like very skimmed over summary of how i feel you know what what building the bond is awesome chris i have a moment that came to mind with this question i was sitting on the couch and across from me was my dog quinn he was the heart dog is kim uses that i like that expression and something fell off the counter across the room it was just the two of us in the room and something fell off the counter and he looked at me and i looked at him and i shrugged and he walked across the room he sniffed the thing on the floor he looked back at me went back and sat on the couch and we both just kind of looked at each other and we're like yeah okay and we just kept going and i mean i think sometimes people think about all the competitions and but me that that was such a defining moment in our in our lives together um and that's what that bond is for me it's those small moments that you're connecting you're having a conversation but there's no words that need to be said and so i also believe that it's about that safety and that connection because there there's a comfort to it but it's it's really born in that safety of being together thanks that's a good question i'm thinking about this um to me it's what all of the cumulative experiences that you have with your dog over a long time that are on the positive side of the scale that create something it's can't be forced it's it has to be mutual um you know you could love your dog to death your dog could hate you um and that's not a bond so it's all of the positive threads that weave together in the middle space between you and any particular dog that creates that warmth and how you feel about that dog i'm sad that i had to go last on this question because i think it is hard to put into words and these ladies have already expressed many good feelings about it but i i agree probably mostly with those shared experiences that are on the positive side of the scale i think about when i'm walking through the forest with my dogs and they notice some little smell and i go over to check

it out with them and we're kind of sharing this like sort of meaningless but also kind of cool adventure together it's you know low key and my dog looks at me and i look at them and they're interested in what i'm interested and we share those sorts of little like day-to-day things comfort is probably a good way to feel about it too um feeling safe in each other's presence being interested in the same things maybe getting excited about the same things um i one of my one of my favorite dogs right now one of our special things that we do as a bonding moment is we take an afternoon nap on the couch together and it seems so silly but he likes to have his naps and i like to have my naps so we snuggle up together and um just thinking about those little day-to-day things are where i see my bonds growing with my dogs so like since you all told a story then a story just popped into my head it kind of makes me laugh so i got this young upstart border collie who's becoming a pain in the ass like most of my dogs do at a certain point and he's so he's terrible he's antagonistic he steals and now what happens is he'll do something terrible to zen like steal his toy or whatever and zen looks at me like did you just see what just happened there and to me that's like what that bond is it's kind of like sorry buddy i saw it but his look of disbelief and then looking at me like did you see that so to me that's like the bond like we both i know i know he's young he'll get better yeah even like what aaron said i love hiking i love being out in nature and one of my favorite things to do is when they show interest in something i go over and i look at it too and i get down with them and i love they just seem to just get so tickled by it they're like you like this too can you smell that i mean they just give you that look of like you like this too i'm like oh heck yeah buddy this is amazing that's the best mushroom i've ever seen i see such potential here for for a video series like like fence fighting with your dog you know like there's so many options here like the dog is digging he's rolling and shit i'm okay maybe i won't do that no i don't even know what the rules are on my own podcast i hope that was okay you're fine anyway yeah so we could all i'm gonna skip that one but we could all all the instructors could do different videos of joining their dogs in on random activities like somebody rings the doorbell and everybody runs to the door barking that'd be very funny yelling like somebody's here somebody's here

and the dogs run out the door okay we gotta do this anyway sorry so wait you don't you don't spend your time sitting at the front window looking out with your dog already that's one of my favorite things to do i love just sitting at the front window with checkmate and you'll see the dog walk by i'm like i see him yeah you're right they're over there i love that game we know crystal's contribution is going to be to the video my favorite for me was um i was this is years ago i was out hiking with my two colleagues and all of a sudden this deer like came running like through the woods almost hit us like across the trail and as soon as it disappeared the three of us just looked at each other like did you see that like we all just like what what happened oh i love that uh so in light of what we're talking about here it sounds like most of you are on one side of this but you know is the bond something that you feel like typically naturally develops over time is it something that has to be intentionally built can you guys talk about that a little bit crystal well before yukon yukon is my dutch shepherd and he was we'll just say before him i would have said that bonding was so natural most of my dogs they just fell into it like we just live together and we trained together we played together and over time you have all those little moments like we talked about and you get connection then yukon came into my life and that idea got challenged a little bit he was perfectly happy doing his own thing even at 10 weeks like when they're supposed to be hey mom how are you you're a human you help me and he's like i'm gonna go over here so he taught me a lot about this and as long as i was around to basically feed him that was what he needed and i have uh several like i looked back at some posts when he was a puppy and i used to play this little game like kind of mentally of the you know plucking did you guys ever do that the plucking the petals where it's like he loves me he loves me not and i felt like no oh that was like a couple like the little dandelions right and so i felt like for years i was plucking the little petals and it was always ending on he loves me not like what a terrible feeling i mean and i would have to really pay attention to any time that he showed me any attention or any any connection at all it was such a struggle um so the turning point for us was when i reduced my expectations i didn't even realize i had so many expectations and i started seeing him for who he actually was he wasn't the bite sport dog that

i purchased uh he was very much chasing butterflies and his very own character and i really had to step back and enjoy him for who he was and that allowed me to start building something and now uh we're not allowed to have favorites so i can't say that but he's he's pretty up there he's pretty special boy so sometimes you do have to intentionally build it and it really depends on the dog because i'm fun damn it that's something i've always been really good at is being curious and being playful and most dogs really feed into that and he just did it and so that's that's a brain twister when that happens to you yeah denise so i often say that some dogs are born wired for relationship and i really i've historically had a lot of dogs that i would say were born wired for relationship so they came in here staring at me and that makes it super super easy those dogs bring the relationship to you but realistically not one dog i have in my house right now was born wired for relationship when i got zen he was a little bit older he was three and a half months and i did the same thing i i've done with every single puppy i took him to a place where we were going to go for walks i took him off leash because there's nowhere to go and i went for a walk because they always follow like little puppies but this one most certainly did not he turned and he went the other way and i was like that's fine i'll just get a little further and he'll realize he's alone and it ended up being me who was running back because i realized no he was definitely going the other direction and not slowly either and just really didn't care so that's fine i i would say my the way i train the way i interact with my dog sensitizes them and so at this point he's he's just quite adorable the way he has so much independence and capacity on his own and yet he cares so much now what i think but he was not born that way uh and then burrito's a terrier so honestly enough said he's perfectly capable of taking care of himself and everybody else while we go along for the the ride but now he spends most of his day on my lap and nearby he still is pretty opinionated young man and old man i guess and then um the new puppy is just sort of in a class by himself but um most certainly uh he unlike at least you know zen was loved the first month of his life or you know so it wasn't like he had no relationship with people um the the border collie really didn't have any uh anything with anyone so you're starting with it's not just about building the bond with you it's actually about making people valuable in their lives i've had

dogs historically though that really literally came out of the womb looking for a person staring at that person they do all the work they create the connection and i think there are pros and cons to uh both sort of both types initially because i will say a lot of dogs that are born that way i think it comes out of um uncertainty and neediness and so they're looking around because they need a bond not because they're choosing one and i find that those dogs over time often are not the strong dogs whereas dogs that i have to work hard i often find that they are really quite competent on their own and i just happen to enjoy dogs that are strong in temperament and nature but i also recognize that they don't come to the table doing the work you have to put out the work and it takes a bit of time but i like the end result a lot so i think there's a a bit of a combination of both things for some dogs that um there's a little bit of naturally developed bond and but there's some curating of the experiences that we share to try and build it to uh as a breeder something that i'm often helping helping helping people with is integrating a puppy into their home and the nature of the type of puppies that i place it's usually a family that already has dogs so part of the the puzzle pieces are we're trying to fit a new dog into a situation where there's already established bonds and routines and relationships amongst the existing dogs and the humans and navigating that can be tricky because one of the things a puppy has going for it is they're cute and they're lovable and they suck a lot of your attention and time um but also they can be kind of aggravating to the existing dogs they can ruin your sleep there's many challenges that come along so there's all these positives that are like i love you little guy i have big hopes and dreams and um kind of hinting into some of those expectations that crystal was talking about that can potentially be a little bit of a hindrance to your relationship too if you're putting so many eggs in like a performance basket before you even know what the puppy is interested in but then you have to you have to try and balance how do i serve my time so that i can build this new bond without straining the existing relationships and part of how i look at curating that that new bond is trying to find ways to avoid conflict or resentments from building up either between the existing dogs and the new dog or between yourself and the new dog because you recognize that they're taking a lot of your time that they're kind of

pushing boundaries and being aggravating and like i have a very old dog in my house right now she's 15 and a half i just don't have any desire for her to be pushed around by a puppy or bumped or agitated and if i had a dog that was doing that i think i could build up a little bit of like ongoing resentments for them so part of how i protect that relationship while i'm in this delicate stage is i want to use space and separation and management strategies so that i'm not constantly being annoyed or overbearing or kind of having to nag on my new puppy oh don't don't bug grandma she doesn't like that or don't steal her toys or don't do this you kind of have to plan ahead be a little proactive and and create those situations for things to be able to blossom a bit peacefully and that takes a bit of work so i count that in the work bucket of building a relationship about how you have to go about planning for that sort of harmony kim do you have thoughts so for me i think it depends a lot on like the time of my life when i get a dog like my first dog that i got when i was in college she was like my college graduation gift i was young i was like not quite sure what i was doing with my career and i was kind of struggling and that impacted our relationship it was probably when she was two that her and i really started to connect um at the same time i think there's some dogs where it just naturally happens and i've had the gift of being able to raise my colleague jane's litter and then my colleague sunday's litter and like i delivered jane and she like was days old and crawled onto my lap like she stood out from everyone else and it was like there was no way that dog wasn't coming home with me like i and i can't even tell you what it was that built that connection but god it was there and i mean it still is and i think so that kind of allows you to see if that's naturally there from the get-go but i think with like any relationships some of them we do have to work harder than others um i definitely have struggled with some of my dogs really connecting with them until i got to know them um i also notice especially a lot of our you know here my local um business we work with a lot of pet families and if there's an expectation of like well my previous dog was like this perfect dog and they did all these things and then they bring home a puppy and the puppy is not going to be that perfect dog right it's an individual and i see like aaron mentioned like the kind of the resentment build up and stuff like because you're not you're dealing with a puppy and you're not getting the dog that

you you know had before and so i think it really depends on like where you are in your life who the individual dog is um and and how it can go from there and i love what denise said about how some dogs like are looking for that bond and that's my miniature poodle he's so obsessed with me it's like insane and he was it was uh i'm in new hampshire we drove down to pennsylvania to the breeders to get him and like 20 minutes into the ride home he's whining in his crate and i had a pillow on my lap i'm like oh i'm just gonna put him on my lap he curled up and was like i have decided that you are the love of my life and that was it and i do think that he's like a little insecure at times and he really needs me to support him and so it's like a different kind of bond than the one i have with jane because jane would be like you know she she's she's fine on her own she does not need me but she wants me um so there's kind of like these different kind of relationships and then even my oldest colleague um we got him when he was two years old and he was in a household with a lot of kids and never really experienced that bond with a person and he i i don't get that from him like i don't get that real desire to connect with us i mean he's perfectly happy living with us but i don't connect with him the way i do with some of my other dogs so i think some just require more work than others and i'm always going to put in the work you know to me it's very important i have that bond um but then others just come extremely naturally for me or for the dog or for both of us i'm curious do you guys think it's okay to have favorites yes but you're not supposed to tell them because this came up yesterday even and i just thought why are we not allowed to to have special bonds that are a little more deep with one than another like is that not okay because we extrapolate to children and then it becomes your dog is your child are you allowed to have favorite children that's an interesting question are you allowed to feel what you feel no so i think that's it also gets back to the idea that you should be controlling your emotions better than that right you must be the logical fair one so that that's such a misunderstanding of how how uh how our emotions actually work i think that's kind of where i'm stuck because i feel like so many people have so much guilt because they like one animal a little more than another and i like them in different ways for different reasons and i i just think it's okay to have stronger feelings for one more than another i just i was

curious if i'm alone on that boat or i i i don't think you're alone and i for me i think like if you put me in a room with one of my dogs i'm like you're my favorite i love you you snuggle we're gonna play this game and then i walk into a different room and there's a different dog and i'm like you know what god you got the most silky ears you're so special and cute and it's like there's just the bond is different between each dog and like i just mentioned my favorite dog ralphie because he's not in here and he can't hear me and his head won't get too big but like there's different reasons they might you might feel that in that moment and it might fluctuate when you have different dogs but no two bonds are the same anyway so you can't really at least i can't like really compare them people ask who's your favorite and i'll give them an answer but it's it could be different the next day i also like that idea that it's like based on what like i have different relationships with each dog and i appreciate them they really couldn't be more different that's the way i have right now i will say i've had dogs in the past that i felt like they lived here i felt like i took good care of them um i felt i did right by them but something just never really developed the way i would want it to and i don't think an outsider could have told i don't think it would be like oh she's not as good to that dog as others i don't think it was like that but something never quite gelled in my heart and maybe it was when i got the dog or maybe it was the things i was working on at that time what i was doing or whatever um and other dogs i think are just it's just easier to see that we have common interests right off the bat and that some of the things that that dog enjoys doing are high on my list at that time at that period in time but um i do regret a little bit that i haven't been able to develop a true bond with every dog i've had um which is different than not taking good care of them or not um wanting them it's it's not the same but i just think it's it's maybe okay to admit that some dogs were maybe not the best match for your situation in the first place there's a reason why we choose the breeds we choose the temperaments we choose uh and it's i think it's okay to admit kind of like a life partner that there are reasons that you make certain choices and that's it's okay to to say that yeah i i agree it's it's it's almost like like throughout your lifetime you're going to become closer friends with some people than other people and uh i i will admit and i don't mean to

offend anyone here with um retrievers but i have learned that i am a herding dog person i love my colleagues i love them so much my golden retriever she's adorable and she's sweet and she's lovable she's just not really my style like i don't you know so it's like and it's not that i don't love her you know she has very good home and but um yeah you just kind of you end up you have your preferences i don't think that's uncommon either because like when i was growing up and little and surrounded by labradors and alaskan huskies i was obsessed with border collies i don't know i saw the right movie or something i was like i really just all i want is a border collie i want one so bad they're so amazing and i finally got one and i was like you know what i actually enjoy training them but no part of the living with them so i'm not offended kim that you're not a retriever person because as much as i've grew up with just wanting to love border collies and i would probably like to borrow one every now and again for some training purposes i just don't want to live with one do you prepare um i think that's super interesting i had a good friend recently asked me if i believed it's possible to have multiple best friends it's very similar to the favorite child problem right it's like how do you decide and what are they good for and different people or maybe meet different needs and yeah very very interesting way to think about it um so the tagline for the conference is about communication and connection and we haven't really talked a whole lot we've talked a lot about kind of the natural pieces of the bond but maybe we haven't talked a whole lot about kind of those two aspects uh so i'd love to dive into do you see communication and connection as different are they the same thing um where do they overlap you know i'd love to talk about that a little bit denise so of course at the exact moment it's you asked me the question my dogs decide that it's time to wrestle and play so i've walked out of the room and the thinking here well you guys well the audience can't see but all i had to do was walk out and they're like wait wait where are you going so that that gave me relative peace um to me communication i can communicate with any dog if i know how to train if i know what the dog's words are if i know the body language that is appealing to that dog or scary like communication is just me understanding dogs well enough to potentially get my way and i can understand their communication for the same reason it's about whether or not i know dog

behavior a body language um interest whatever well enough to understand what they're saying to me uh and so i i don't even i don't need to have any relationship at all with that dog to me connection gets down to what we've already talked about which is a whole nother level and it's got a lot more uh desire to get along so if i communicate to my dog i don't want you to bark at the window and my dog wants to bark at the window that's me telling them what i want and somewhat disregarding their interest in that moment which doesn't mean i'm not going to do it sometimes communication is that way connection is a whole nother matter because it really is about taking into consideration not just my needs and interests not just the dog's needs and interests but really all needs all interests and let's for society and for good measure because i i think that's important and family and all so i think when you have a connection with a dog you are um much more on a kind of a cognitive level you're much more aware of how the choices you might make at that time will influence how you guys feel about each other over the long haul which is a little bit different than just i need to get my way now and so i'm going to do this that or the other um i don't i don't have dogs to communicate with them so i like communicating with them i find dog behavior fascinating i do know people who are exceptionally good dog trainers and i'm not completely convinced they like dogs so that sounds odd but i think they are fascinated by dogs and dog behavior which is a it's a different thing i have both i'm fascinated by dog behavior but i also have a deep interest in the relationship i have with my dogs like i'm kind of amazed by what can exist between um a different species there's a book some of you may have read it or to your kids or whatever called the golden compass and in this book you have these um i don't know what to call it you have your sort of your animal that's always with you and there's a cord that ties you together and if it gets cut it actually you'll die like it's so fundamentally important that you have this in your life and i'm like when i was reading the book to my son um he was like that would be so amazing to have that and i was just looking at the dogs thinking i do have that so i i already have that we just don't think about how incredibly amazing it is that we have another species that's in our lives and that we relate to so deeply i mean it really the more i think about it the more it amazes me every time i think about it and it makes me a little sad

that some people are kind of oblivious to what a dog can be if you're not treating it like something you own and do things to and have expectations of and you want it to mold to your life it's like you you're just you've missed so much of what it is to live with another species who chooses you in their home so uh communication anybody can do it who has training and skills connection is um i think anybody can develop it if they actually really want to but it's uh it's just really night and day so yes to all of that i was thinking about denise when you're talking about connection as that awareness yesterday i was walking through the forest with one of my labs venom and little beagle creature leroy and i was sort of thinking about the upcoming conference and connections and bonds and stuff and i'm like isn't it kind of cool that this little beagle guy can run around and he's smelling all the creatures in the forest and oh look venom went over there to smell something and he was completely doing his own thing and all of a sudden he's just casually following her over to where she was and then i got interested something and i changed my direction i didn't have to say anything and venom follows me and leroy beagle follows her and the what i was struck by is just the connection that we have that awareness we have of each other even when we're not i'm not talking to them they're not summoning me over we're just sharing those those moments and they're it's it's kind of an like an emotional thing right because you're aware of what the others are doing even when you're not consciously saying like i'm gonna watch that dog and see what he's up to and they're not probably saying like i have to keep an eye on that human at all times it's just because we're doing that thing together and we we have that bond already communication can probably add to that connection like if i uh need to direct them or they bark because there's a bear or something we can add to the layers of connection that we've already established by having clear communication and me being able to read their body language is definitely helpful to our connection and them naturally caring where i'm going and what i'm doing is helpful in that way too but they are kind of separate things in that regard like you could if you've ever been in a training class as the instructor or as a student and you've seen how a dog does better with somebody who's a better communicator even if they don't have that connection like that that adds to something even though it's not really building it at the

emotional level so it's it's really an interesting thing to think about something you said about the you know walking with your dogs made me think about with with the border collie i have who came with some pretty significant challenges i knew that he was going to be a good working dog way before i knew if he would ever care about me and the day i knew was when oh gosh now i'm feeling teary but i was out walking and i always have to go through massive conniptions to get him back at the end because he doesn't want to come in and it was when i said hey let's go and i realized that i wasn't going to have to do that he just stopped heading for the gate which is what he always tries to do to get away and he just tried it back in it was such a um a low-key i'm part of the group you said we're going in now we're going in now moment um and i my other dogs i don't have to work on that because they come so young it's so easy and so to see him like i showed up like he looked at me like i showed up on the radar and it wasn't a quid pro quo negotiation which is how we were getting through life till that moment everything was about i know what you want i control those resources and i can make i can make it work for both of us and then it became it's not about what you want it's not about what i have i don't have those things right now i'm not going to give you those things and you know it and it doesn't matter you you're choosing me you're choosing to be with me you're choosing to be with the group and doing the thing and it was that's when i said we're going to be okay and he's going to be more than just a dog who can do the things they're hurting the obedience he's going to be um a companion a connected friend who is able to sort of see beyond his own interests um and that was a big deal because i've never seen a dog so uninterested in what people not just me people were doing it was just what do i want to do how do i want to do it it's kind of like the toddler who's just heading off in their own direction all the time and the parent follows them around and keeps them out of trouble and redirects and until they get scared they don't even look at their parent right they're just kind of in that do my own thing and and then to see that was uh was a really big deal yeah i agree with what denise and aaron said um i think one thing that's important to keep in mind is that good communication like aaron said is going to help your connection and bad communication will impact your connection as well i you know i i see that a lot in in like the pet dog classes um i i was observing a few weeks ago i

was at um the the vets uh with my my mini poodle waltz and i was hanging out in the waiting room for quite a while so you know i'm just i can't help just like observing and geeking out watching everything and there were these these two people with their dogs right and and they're both communicating with their dogs right they've got the collar and leash on they're telling them that they have to you know stay in the general area and you know not pull on the leash and and those things um and one of them it was like this younger guy and he's like sitting back in his chair he's got like his dog this big dog like leaning against him and he's got his arm around him and you know once in a while the dog looks up and smiles at him and he's like kind of petting him and chatting with people and you could just see the connection there right and then you know across the little hall there there's this woman and she's just like completely distracted and her her poor dog is like screaming for help you know kind of not literally screaming but you know kind of jumping up at her and acting all nervous and um she's totally disconnected with this dog and even though the dog is like staying there and hanging out and doing what she wants it's it's the the communication was there both with both but the connection it was so clear who had the connection um that's all i have to add to this one crystal all i can think about here is my 6c class because this is what it's completely about so i'm so passionate about this i get excited i'm thinking about what aaron and kim said about that clarity and communication it's going to build the confidence and that's going to help build that connection but the first thing we have to have is that compassion and i think that's the piece that denise was kind of speaking to even saying how ty was able to see beyond his own interests that's a lot of what we have to bring to it is we bring that compassion and to see beyond our own interests and really see that being in front of us and that's how that true connection starts to happen i loved aaron's example of the awareness i was thinking about being out on a search with radish some of the handlers are out there and they have to yell and holler and use their collars to get their their dogs to stop going where they're going or change direction or come back and literally i always wonder like how did she even see that all i do is just change my direction slightly and she will completely change the the path that she's going and come the direction

i want i didn't have to say a word and that is the connection that i i love to build that's what i try so hard to show other people uh that you can use your body and you can use that that invisible line you know i always feel like there's this invisible line happening between us um and i use it in seminars where i'll point just randomly i'll be instructing and then i'll just point at something or i'll just stop and look at something and everybody will turn and look you know and it's that same idea because we are all connected and we're all kind of seeing what each other is doing we're reading off each other and our dogs are doing that all the time so that's uh i had a little sidetrack too i don't know if this relates there was a conversation yesterday on facebook and someone said about um they didn't agree with dogs doing sports because the dogs should not be treated as sports equipment and i couldn't stay out of it i'm like how about another perspective what if we look at this as i am a teammate and my dog is part of my team and we are not looking at my dog as equipment and holy cow if you've ever she and then she said tennis anybody and i was like okay let's talk pairs tennis you really have to be connected with your partner with your teammate and when you have that connection your your game gets better and then imagine you get to go home with that teammate and you get to talk about the game you just played and then you get to live with that being like you cannot get any closer relationship than that so i don't know if that's off task too much but it just kept kind of playing back in my mind you made me think of something crystal so i had my last dog sledding expedition of the year i believe on monday because our weather is now spring and it was um i i think sometimes think people think when you're when you're dog sledding it's just the dogs running for the sake of running and you know they've got this innate desire to burn calories and express their physicality that way but it's really it's not it's so much more than that it's this it is this total team thing so i've got my dogs and we're quietly going through the wilderness and it's just so peaceful and i'm thinking oh it's so sad this is the last time we get to do this this year and then all of a sudden one of my dogs puts his nose down and he just starts hauling ass like he just turbo boosted oh my goodness like what are you doing cool jam and then the dog in front of him she starts looking into the woods she's running but

she's turning sideways and i'm like oh my goodness there's got to be a critter out there and they just had this moment of speed and joy and like sort of distraction but the whole team all at once felt it and it was so cool the moment eventually passed and we went back to our little trick trotting and and and quiet moment but like you can't i don't know how you could even replicate something like that if there wasn't that connection between you and your teammates it's so special it was slightly terrifying because i didn't know what was going to come out of the woods and eat us but the dogs were aware of it i was aware what they were aware of and um when i think about sports with dogs i think about moments like that i don't think about the ribbons and the titles and stuff i think like we experienced that all together and it was fun and interesting and scary and cool and like when they think about their day i think they think about moments like that oh yeah i've had a cool experience recently someone else at dog club is training my dog and so when you talk about communication and connection it's fascinating because she knows the words so she knows all my marker words she knows everything but my dog will not work the same for her as he does for me and then trying to watch someone else and then tell them why i saw what i saw and how i knew that about my dog that is really fascinating so that's something that i i like to challenge people to do so now in club we're doing that so we're letting other people work our dogs and it helps us see our dog in a whole new way so that could be a way also to kind of explore that difference between communication and connection super interesting uh obviously there are lots of different factors right that can influence a bond in a given moment so i want to i want to talk about some of that stuff um we've mentioned age already but you know how does your dog's age tend to impact your bond at that particular point what differences do you maybe see when you're at home with them versus when you're out in public what differences do you see maybe if you're working on something that's new to them versus something that's you know kind of old hat you know what other factors do you see kind of make that bond fluctuate within you know a given period of time um erin you want to start us off on this one sure i'm going to tackle that age part of that question because i think i already alluded to this but old dogs are the best dogs you will not convince me otherwise it is so easy to have a a very deep connection and bond with your best friend

that you've shared a million years with and they're so agreeable and even if they have like medical stuff going on you're just like you are cool you know me i know you we are great together we just are thoughts relay we don't have to have a like shelby is mostly deaf we doesn't matter we can still communicate we know she knows what i'm doing i know what she's doing and then you have like your adolescent dogs and you're like listen we have this this is where the work comes in we got to work on because i need to survive this you need to survive this and there's if you if you set yourself up in a positive state of mind i think you can look for the little connections that are growing in leaps and bounds within those more difficult time periods um with puppies too right there's like i mentioned before it's easy to love them because they're cute and little and squishy um but you don't get any sleep when they bite your hands and they wreck all your nice stuff and they poop on your carpet and there's many challenges but you if you keep the the positive state of mind and you're like oh look at like he came to the door with me and he rang the bell and we had this amazing adventure together and you're focusing on that part you can use those more difficult age ranges as as pretty big stepping stones to building your connection you just have to be watching for it and and aiming for it a little bit i like that thought kim yeah i see so i noticed on social media it's like everyone who gets a puppy it's like the perfect puppy at first right like everyone's this is the perfect puppy i love my puppy so much it's so perfect and i'm like so sick of watching all these perfect puppies because i know they're going to turn into adolescence and you're not going to think that they're perfect i i mean i love a puppy just as much as anyone else i adore puppies um my favorite time to really build a bond with my dog is during adolescence i love the challenge i love it's like you're really getting to know them then and who they are and what works for them and you know i think a lot of people see it as like they're you know misbehaving or they're becoming more difficult or they're you know no longer listening to you but i just see it as like okay what is challenging for my dog right now and how can i support them and by looking at it that way i'm just building our bond and then if i have the foundation of a really nice bond from puppyhood that's just going to help me even more um so i love that part of their lives

and then and then of course like four or five six years old when they're like you know just like what you always imagined they would become of course that's wonderful too for your bond and then after that like aaron said when they go into senior you know becoming seniors it just it keeps growing from there but but i think adolescence is the time we should really embrace um and i mean as far as other times you know that impact my bond with my dogs and and you mentioned you know at home versus in public um i think my bond essentially stays the same but i think like when i think of jane um in particular like she's probably my most challenging dog she's got some big feelings out in the world i almost i almost feel like like we're sisters when we go out in the world when she like does something to embarrass me or whatever like i was i was speaking for a conference and i had her as a demo dog and i look up and she just dives into my treat pouch and knocks treats all over the place and i'm just like and and she does that i know she does that i'm just like oh jane why now like she's so it's like we still have that bond but maybe it's a little different um so yeah i guess it can kind of change depending on your on your your situation and everything but i think the fact that i have a good bond with her i can just laugh that off and not actually get upset with her for embarrassing me in front of a lot of people fair enough crystal i'm kind of thinking about it i never thought about it this way but i think about it as the puppy stage for me is when my trainer geek side comes out i just want to take advantage of that that little dry sponge it's just soaking so much in and then i feel like adolescence and i'll go with kim on that one and maybe it's because i taught high school art for 23 years so i like adolescence i like that punishment if you can survive a classroom full of that many high school kids teenagers like you can do anything i really believe that and so i i love the challenging stage of adolescence because that's when the bond happens i kind of feel like at puppy stage that's when i'm like trainer geek and then adolescence is when the bonding geek comes in and then you have that sweet spot where you know you have the quinn moment where you can just look at each other and just know what you're thinking you have that connection you've been together so long and then you get and this is only if you're so lucky to have this and i wish this for everybody but when you get to that stage where they are so old that it kind of reverses

where like quinn took care of me for all those years and then i had the pleasure of taking care of him and there will nothing be that can be as deep as that bond so all the sports we did all the lives we lived all the states we traveled to and the places we've gone i still think that was the the most precious time was there being able to take care of him again and it was just being able to give him that gift back like i get choked up thinking about it and then when you talked about home versus public i think a lot of that comes to the dog's personality but i i think too it's the training i had radish out day one in all the public spaces we did all the training in all the places and i see her as being so much more robust and being able to do things everywhere and so because of that it makes i'll say that connection is easier because she's already used to it with a checkmate you know he's very everything that moves is a problem and so space is hard for us and it becomes a constant strain against our connection because when he wants to go do all the things but again that's that's a temperament that's a dog thing and so that does come to a lot of training training becomes really crucial to help that bond stay alive i'll say so that's that's something else i want to throw out there that training is important to kind of keep us connected and denise so for sure stages of life are a big part of it but the thing that's standing out for me right now is the amount i build my feelings for my dog and hopefully my dog builds their feelings for me around competition dog sports because it's very concentrated time with one dog it's something that is i believe the highlight of our day if it's not then i think some soul searching needs to take place and especially the way i choose to train it is it really requires buy-in on the dog's part because that's just part of how i do it i don't i think that probably pushes things faster than anything else i mean just the soaking time of being together i work from home so the dogs and i are together for it's not unusual to be together 24 hours a day uh but that 20 or 30 minutes that i spend with each dog really it's just you and me and i'm giving you everything i have 100 of my attention and at that time my needs are not relevant now we're in the house loose my needs are relevant so you barking at the windows running around whatever it is those things start to be about hey what about me hey what about you hey what about family but when i'm training it really is very much 100 what do you need right now and i think those uh that

training for sport for any sport whatsoever that requires that sort of conscious attention and you know thinking in advance about where are we going to go today how are we going to do it and then the attention afterwards sort of let's call it the afterglow of training where i'm really thinking about wow hopefully hopefully wow that went well what's next for me that creates a huge amount of connection with my dogs and i think they reflect that back because they take so much from that time as well so really a huge part and then when it's over and the dog is retired there's a lot of sort of looking back on that shared history and i think that sort of keeps that piece alive even though we do think completely different things at that point in our lives i think that's that's such a great point that we kind of have like we've missed through this conversation is the value of dog sports on our bond with our dogs and for me personally one thing that's been lacking recently is i've just i've been so busy that i haven't been able to engage in training and sports as much as i used to and that used to be such a huge part of my relationship with my dogs that said i do still do it sometimes and just this past weekend i took my mini poodle i guess out of retirement um he has an aggressive form of cancer but is somehow beating the odds and he's still with me and so i entered in him into an obedience trial and we have not done like anything in a long time and gosh he just rocked it and what made him he he's always enjoyed being in the ring and he's always enjoyed working with me and like food reinforcement none of that was ever all that important to him and it was such a delight to be able to go in the ring with him and share that experience and and he's so cute because i see out of the corner of my eye like all of a sudden he like opens his mouth and he has this little smile when he's like trotting next to me um and it's i think sports have always been a huge part of my relationship with my dogs and my my bond with my dogs and and it's it's really a beneficial part of ours sharing our lives and i'm gonna fangirl on kim for a second i am in a weird place in life where i have two dogs that are just not able to do the things anymore and i started taking her ace free work class and it has absolutely changed my relationship especially with yukon so those are the things that also affect that bond so when you do have that point where maybe you have grief over the things you thought you were going to do in your sports career and then what do you do now you know and then this has been such a gift to fill

that space for me and so um i also am so excited about how i will use this in the future with my young dogs to really get to know them better faster so i can't recommend enough everybody has to take free work i'm just saying it so there you go so i want to push things in a slightly different direction for a minute um most of the time you know and most of the conversation has been about strengthening our relationship with our dogs and kind of building that bond but sometimes in life things just aren't perfect right so how do you handle it when something goes wrong when the bond is damaged or when something unpleasant like maybe a necessary medical situation comes up it can't be avoided how do you recoup that how do you rebuild that connection how do you handle it in the moment kim oh it's the worst feeling so much guilt i it's for me it's the hardest part of dog ownership is like when i have to put them through an experience they don't really care for um you know i think that's kind of just it's so you know when you when we teach the name game and in the pet dog classes right so it's like you say the puppy's name you give them a treat say their name give them a treat and the whole idea is like you're building this savings account of you know your name means lots of good things and i think of my bond with my dog my connection all the things i do with them as you know putting that money into the savings account so that when i do have a withdrawal when i have to bring them to the vets or you know i've got five dogs even like doing their nails like it's that it's it's not pleasant for everyone in the the way i would like it to be you know we're not all crying over it but they don't love it and so i just need to make sure that i'm putting enough into that savings account to then handle those withdrawals that happen um and it's interesting this question really made me think because this so this past weekend i was at a um specialty and my nine-year-old niece autumn um is doing juniors with my colleague jane and it's adorable because autumn and jane have built this like amazing relationship and and collie's naturally very much like children i feel guilty that i don't have kids because my collies want them but um but they have this relationship where like like they cuddle together and i'm like jane doesn't really cuddle with me but it's autumn has only been positive experiences for her right there really hasn't been a withdrawal and whereas with me there have been and then my sister shows up at the show my autumn's mom right and it's like i see the difference between

autumn's relationship with me like the fun aunt right who brings her to dog shows versus her mom who you know is her mom and sometimes has to you know create boundaries and such so i think we're gonna have that relationship with our dogs and we just have to make sure that we're working so much on that bond that when those things happen it it doesn't completely break things and we can kind of just pick up the pieces and and go from there crystal relationships are always about repair and recovery i screw up all the time i just i'm human and so i think compassion is the first piece to have compassion for myself that says you're gonna mess up and don't hold it against yourself i think that's so important to this because things are going to go wrong and i think how we respond afterwards when those things go wrong is the most important and so i think if we have a plan so if you have a medical thing you already have a plan in place like this is how i want to feel about this this is how i'm going to be there for my dog i'm going to show them my compassion uh i'm also going to show them that i'm going to help you feel safe again and i i always kind of ask my dog or i think about with my dog what are they learning about me in this moment and i think that always helps me be a better person because i want to show up for them and so am i listening to what they're actually telling me am i actually slowing down and trying to rebuild that confidence we might have lost and i also know that it's not forever i just have this impermanence feeling about everything now that it's just this is not forever we can change this if i built this thing i can build this other thing and so that's the confidence in myself to know that i can do that but also confidence in my learner and my dog that they can do this too we can do hard things damn it i love that line uh denise so i wonder if a way to think about this to make it a little bit i don't know positive is the word i want but part of resilience is going through ups and downs and a dog cannot be resilient in life or frankly can a dog really even be happy if they don't have you you need to know degrees of unhappy to know happy that's you know you need to know degrees of discomfort to know comfort do i think the dog sits around going gee i'm so grateful i'm not in pain no i don't but i do think that part of the normal resilience recovery is about things happening and the dog understanding look i'm trying to make this as good for you as it can i am and i think they do know that

i think your dog learns eventually that when i go to the vet and i say this is a no choice moment i'm gonna hold you and this is how it's gonna be i kind of feel like my dog has a look at me with a i just want you to know i don't like it uh zen is the dog who's had a whole lot of vet care lately and he is never going to silently stand there and take that he is going to make sure everybody in the room can hear him and that he's just he's mad you're gonna know it but he doesn't do a thing like my hands are on him and it's symbolic and he could absolutely wreck havoc if he wanted to he doesn't he gets it i don't like the things that are being done but you're here and i'm always there he never goes out of my sight and he just accepts it and i almost wonder if when we leave the vet if we have a better connection because there's sort of a sense of yeah sometimes life has misfortune but i'm there with you through it and you do survive it and it's never more than you can handle or i would do it anesthetized i mean i wouldn't put my dog through truly on miserable experiences um and i i don't feel like there's harm the exception would be when brita was young he was panicked to a new level about nail trims and i don't know what exactly happened before i got him but he he came a little bit older and it was it was bad it was three people bad um and what i noticed is that um after a nail trim day he would literally avoid everybody in the house for the rest of the day so for whatever reason he took it much much more seriously than other dogs that i've also had to do nails who didn't want their nails done who got over it you know they just and i wouldn't say he's a low resilience dog but something about that particular activity was very hard on him and i spent a lot of time doing cooperative nail care it took a month i spent every single day working on it and now i will he will never love having a nails done but i can do it by myself and it's not a big deal anymore and i think that's part of we grew together i took the time to do training because clearly it was a big thing for him so i don't know i i guess i i accept it just more as life is what life is i was kind of thinking about it along the same lines and knowing that there's almost certainly going to be these moments in life where we have to do these unpleasant things um kind of planning and preparing for them not just from the element of i can make certain events like nail trimming or whatever better with training but also i can be really clear about when these moments are going to happen um in day-to-day life and okay this is the

example i always use but if your dogs ever eat grass and then they go to take a poop and they've got that little bit of dangly poop this is a training moment friends where i take advantage of those moments and i'll say something like hang on i'll help you and then you get your little glove out and you help them with that situation and the temporary embarrassment that they feel or the discomfort is overwhelmed by relief in the end and they're like you helped me thank you i try to capture little moments like that on the day-to-day not that there's grassy moments every single day but when they happen i want to i want to take advantage of those because they translate later to things like listen you've got a torn nail and we've got to trim it off it's just going to be a second i'm going to help you i can use that language and that context and when it's over it's over i don't keep nagging at it i'm not going to keep picking up your your nails or your grass situation or whatever they know that there's a clear beginning and a clear end and that i'm part of the process that helps things get better and in that way i don't think my dogs exhibit resentment for me in those situations i think they think i'm there because i'm part of the helping process um and i i feel like in a way that does help our connection actually grow like i'm not afraid to go to the vet even when terrible things are you know you're worried about what what the diagnosis might be or what the procedure might be i don't worry about that i just focus on like how can i make this a situation where my my dog is um clear about what's happening and then when it's over it's over and they know it's over and we all go get an ice cream cone so part of part of for me dog ownership or dog training is knowing that things like that are inevitable and looking for tiny little easy ways that you can introduce that concept to your dog so that when the big stuff happens it's not as it doesn't feel as big to either one of you i love that aaron you're just making me realize that if my dogs have a thorn in their paw or something they hobble over to me and it didn't occur to me that they absolutely recognize that i'm gonna make that better yeah those those cool little moments like yeah i'd rather they didn't have a thorn in their paw or whatever but you're part of the cure so i think those they're pretty smart they know when when we're uh when we're helping them in the long run and denise brought up resilience and you know i i totally believe that sometimes those moments that we're having these struggles are actually absolutely

deepening our bond because they are learning that we're going to support them and so i'm on team aaron for that too i see it all the time what i get concerned about is that when people hear something like that they're like oh well if it's gonna be a stronger thing then if they struggle and then we help them through it why not just train that way and that's kind of a popular conversation on the webs right now dude we screw up enough we don't have to set anything up intentionally to have to help them recover that's that resilient piece that's so important we screw up enough just having life and denise talks about that all the time and i just felt like that was an important little thing to kind of add into that resilience topic i totally agree and that's just to reiterate like that's where i'm looking for moments in life where it's naturally happening that i can be part of the solution because i'm not going out of my way to create stress or pain or discomfort so that it can be a training moment it's they're dude i've got labradors they are bouncing off the walls and thorns and grass and all the things are happening on a daily basis they're uh probably part of that is a consideration of what type of dogs we're choosing to like i am drawn to dogs who are going to be naturally probably more resilient and more tolerant of um stress and stuff than maybe some other dogs so maybe it's not maybe i'm not like the right person to talk about that from more delicate dogs perspective either but that is totally a consideration well from a more delicate dog perspective i can't even tell you how many broken collie legs i have mended by rubbing and kissing um you know because they'll come over to me limping but it is the exact same thing okay it might not be grass you know hanging out of their bum but in their opinion it's a very big deal and i do make sure that i'm the one to help them and that then turns into like you know if they do cut a nail or a snowball like the snowballs in their pads like they will stop and hold their feet and i'll pick them out for them and then they'll trot along so um yeah it's all relative love that uh we've talked about a lot of different factors here but what other factors can you think of or um maybe have we not thought to chat about that can really have an impact on our bonds with our dogs crystal i think we've mentioned it but i have to make sure that we really hit on it um and that's that emotional state of both our dog and us we're both important in this and so recognizing their emotions is going to help us with all manners

of bond and training but we also have to be real about ourselves so sometimes i will choose not to train because i know that i'm not in the right headspace to do it and i would rather not train than do something really stupid and then we talked about the expectations that i had with you kind of in the very beginning of this and i think the clarity of your expectations sometimes i think the the most intentional thing we can do is to adjust ourselves so i think it just it takes a lot of self-awareness to do a good job so it's yes a lot of paying attention to them but it's also paying attention to us and then my favorite topic is play i think that's a huge factor as to how we can build the bond with our dog really listening to them how they like to play it's so cool watching all these different handlers figure out that communication skill of oh my dog likes to chase or my dog likes to bite things or my dog likes to thrash things and they just never knew that before and that can be such a gift of communication with your dog that just it's i think that's one of the most important powerful pieces we have and then uh one last thing i was thinking was about that safety piece we talked about that a little earlier i think but i think just whether the dog feels safe and whether you feel safe too um and both are understood denise so two things you said that kind of stood out for me because i'm in the midst of it one is the safety it's really really important that your dog recognize that somebody's paying attention and i mean that's a huge part of my talk but i'll get to that later but um it matters that your dog believes you're an anchor and that you provide safety and the second one that i think is equally important is that your dog recognizes that you bring joy and that you recognize what causes them to feel joy because life lived in the middle is just not that interesting so we can look for opportunities to have punctuation in life and that for my dogs would be training time or in some cases just trying to figure out what what they care about and um i love to see that find what brings your dog joy in life and um make yourself an anchor so your dog understands that you represent safety aaron something that i think we haven't really mentioned yet is like finding ways for dogs to actually get to be dogs because that we're we're focused on building their connection with us but they also have to actually get to be themselves so when do they get to move their bodies how do they get to just sniff around and do like low pressure no pressure things um the more my dogs get to dog

the more highly they think of me without any other changes involved we just are making sure their needs are met they're more comfortable in their own skin they're just happier and more relaxed in general um so that is something i would consider if you're if you're finding like a the bond or the connection is hard to build or it's struggling a little bit like see if increasing the amount of dogginess that your dog gets to experience has a positive effect on that i like that um kim i like what crystal said about kind of like focusing on ourselves as well as our dogs um i i mean i teach take a breath so that's you know my dog taking a deep breath but the cue is me taking a deep breath and i've found that to be so beneficial for both myself my dog and we were like co-regulating and i really think like sitting there together and like taking deep breaths is like it feels so bonding and it feels like it's building such a connection um i think also and this is kind of goes along with what everyone else was saying like creating you know understanding what your dog's preferences are and i had a uh that many years ago teach me about a happiness protocol which is like essentially using your dog's happiness to help them stay healthy and looking specifically for what that is for your dog and not make assumptions and what i love so much about ace free work is that we do get to just sit back and observe and watch our dog's preferences and learn them because often we we make assumptions that it's one thing when it's actually another um and just giving our dogs those moments i like my mini poodle he loves to just like if i hold like a stock of celery he just like tears at it and like it's super boring for me except for actually i i thoroughly i take that back i thoroughly enjoy watching him like it's so nice to see him enjoy it so much but it's also you know i'm just sitting on the ground holding some celery but it makes him so happy so it's like i just try to go out of my way once in a while to like let him destroy some celery and i'm part of it you know so finding those little things that like if i gave that to my colleagues they'd be like what the heck are you doing this is stupid um so it's like finding what your dog's individual preferences are and then allowing them to enjoy those and and with you if if possible back when i was working two jobs i didn't have a ton of time and so what i would do is i would guarantee every dog 10 minutes of just that dog and me doing whatever it was they loved every day and i know that 10 minutes isn't a lot but it's all that i could give at the time

and that's such a powerful thing of really sitting there and going what do you actually love and what do you love today and how do you ask that question and how do they answer it and so that's something that i think everyone could probably you know consider and how much time can you dedicate to each of your dogs how many ever you have uh and think about that for each day so i want to get back to the conference here for a moment um and just have you each share a little bit on what you'll be talking about during the conference kind of what your presentation is centered around denise so my topic is leadership uh in the in the dog world right now for some reason that that word has a very negative connotation i mean i have some clues about where that comes from but regardless i think that's unfortunate because leadership when we think about people who are leaders and how they interact with others i think it is the clearest word that we have access to to demonstrate something that's important to me which is the recognition that one of us in any given moment is probably going to be directing what's going to happen next and i think it is really really important that people learn to step up and be leaders under circumstances that require it i think it makes everybody a lot happier i one example i give is if there was an emergency and a house was on fire and burning down and there's kids in there adults without exception an adult will step up and start telling people what to do with a very specific tone and insist it's not the time to say well you know when you're ready and on a more emotional level so people like well of course that's a physical safety thing but consider this if you see a car accident and it's a bad one and there's blood and there are human beings screaming suffering bloody parts missing would you let your children watch that so you're standing there on the side of the road would you let your three-year-old watch obviously not you would turn them away you would find a way to make sure they did not see that because there's emotional harm and damage and i think with our dogs we are slow to recognize the importance of stepping up earlier even if it means physically removing them from the circumstance just because your three-year-old wants to watch that's not the time to have a conversation about i'm going to take your hand no you pick them up and you move them and i think with our dogs we um in our enthusiasm for giving them choice in our enthusiasm for not physically manipulating their bodies we sometimes just make very poor choices and i i present a framework

about how to think about this so that you can provide choice within structure but recognizing that somebody really needs to be making the good decisions here and i think over time that creates a circumstance where your dog learns to look to you when they're unsure because you have a history of providing good information for them you serve them well and so that is what my presentation is on and it's one that i really really enjoy teaching about erin i'm teaching about belonging so i'm talking about how to integrate a new dog when you have existing dogs in the household so how do you manage your time how do you structure things so that you can build a bond with your new pup your dog while also maintaining your connections with your older dogs and how do you help have the best long-term odds of harmony between the new dog and the existing dog so talking about building their bonds as well and i think um one of the things that i hope to emphasize to those who are um checking out this presentation is that the long game matters more than the short game so like when i bring a new puppy into my household or bring a new adult dog into my household i will sacrifice um immediate interactions a little bit maybe more separation maybe a little more caution so that there's a better chance of having long-term harmony making sure people get along for years and years to go uh to go along and um i'm gonna give some tips on how you can make that happen awesome crystal i am all about joy and we're gonna look at some of the major functional breed groupings and explore kind of what they're historically built to do and what that might mean for trying to figure out how to reinforce and how to play and how to connect i'll talk about predatory motor patterns and the different you know styles of dogs like scent driven or cooperative types or independent types and hopefully you'll get a lot of practical ideas and i like the idea of starting with what the books say and then actually paying attention to whether your dog agrees with what the book says so i'll give you some small experiments you can play with and kind of notice when they're enthusiastic and when it's waning and really let your dog show you what feels good to them so it's about finding a clear starting point and then kind of building from there to see what your dog actually enjoys because it's not about proving if your dog fits that category that they're supposed to be in but actually understanding what they enjoy and build from there kim i can't wait now for this conference because that all sounds awesome um i will be talking about

my opt-out stations for this um presentation and the idea of this is using training to better understand your dog allowing them to communicate with you so that you can create that bond through training i um i learned a lot through my last puppy sunday because she wasn't the normal workaholic that i'm very accustomed to um quite the opposite and uh now i have a great little worker because i allowed her to communicate with me um when i was confusing when she wasn't sure what to do um through opt-out stations and if you do have a workaholic it turns out it also works out for them really well too because it allows them to take time to process what they're learning so i'm really excited to finally present about this anybody have any final thoughts or key points they kind of want to leave folks with i just wanted to say that recently in the fdsa alumni group there were a few different people who had questions about um struggling to bond with their dog finding that they had made it through puppyhood they were into adolescence or beyond and they still didn't feel like they had that connection was it normal was it did they miss the boat is this mean it's they're never going to bond and i just wanted to say that sometimes bonds take much longer to develop than others some are like kim mentioned with her puppy that crawled up on her lap you just feel it in your bones right away and other times it's going to happen much later and that's there's a huge whole range of normal if you feel like you've been struggling i would totally check this conference out because uh it sounds like we are all approaching this from all kinds of different angles there's bound to be some help in there for somebody who has been having a difficult time achieving that bond i'm kind of a webinar junkie and one of my favorite webinars in my library is denise's leadership webinar and so just for that fact i am like sign up y'all come listen to us because there's so much gold in here even if you feel like i couldn't get a better relationship there's no way yes you can if that's something that you want and you feel like you want to next level your training or anything this this is how you do it this is the foundation of everything i love that all right well thank you all so much for coming on the podcast it was so great to have all of you here thank you melissa thanks for having us my pleasure and thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in we'll be back next week with suyanoff to talk about sports medicine and the importance of getting an accurate diagnosis if you haven't already subscribed to the podcast in itunes

or the podcast app of your choice of our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available today's show is brought to you by the fenzy dog sports academy special thanks to denise fenzy for supporting this podcast music provided royalty free by bensound.com the track featured here is called buddy audio editing provided by chris lang thanks again for tuning in and happy training yeah