Bow Wow Bill and The Bellons

[00:00] Thank you. [00:30] Here we are. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another live stream. And I'm going to give everybody a second to just kind of show up here. And if you guys are here, if you wouldn't mind hitting that share button. And I'm going to share it as well to my Bow Wow Bill page. But I have with me the wonderful duo, Michael and Bart Bellen. [00:59] How are you two? Hi. We're trying to share the broadcast. Hold on. Is it on Bill Church or Bow Wow Bill or what? Bow Wow Bill. Yeah. And I'll tag you if you like. My Bow Wow Bill. And it's on the Facebook page. We're streaming live to YouTube as well. And we're also streaming live to Twitter. Twitter. But I guess the Twitter is going to stop doing live streams. [01:24] Sorry. You find it? Yeah. I heard it. And then whoever speaks non-English languages, we are going to be doing some subtitles. After the live stream, I have to go to my YouTube channel. So make sure you're on the YouTube channel if you want to get this broadcast in French, Belgium. [01:50] That's really cool. Swahili. Swahili. Whatever. We'll talk with Bart. Just find out all the different languages that he speaks. So we can make sure that all your fans and friends are able to listen in as well. You can't share it? No. Neither one of us can share it. So anyway, we'll do it later. I can share it. Everybody else share it. And let me see here. I'm going to switch to my personal page here. [02:16] So how are you two? Good. Good but tired. So it means that last week we had that new silver in Springfield, the Nate Popo silver. And then the last three days I was commenting a new idea of IGP Dog Sport. [02:41] They call it C-A-C-I-T. Catch it. Okay. It's an initiative from... But it's IGP. IGP Sport itself. The IGP Sport is like IPO, but that is the new name, IGP. And the whole idea was to bring different federations together without too much federations involved in it. [03:12] So without the linking network of the federations. And they asked me to comment the job. So which was a 10, 11, 12 hour job per night. Oh, goodness. Yeah. And then the first night we had here big storms. So Wi-Fi did fall out five or six times. And then we have a generator that starts automatically.

[03:37] Pushed it back on again. Yeah. Yeah. Thank God for Elon. I got the same star link here too. You know, I remember talking to you about that before I got it. Now this is... And this is the first time that this sport... Yes. ...happled this year, huh? It's the first time that they do it under that formula. Everybody could come free in the stadium and the streaming was free worldwide. And there is a lot of reactions. [04:05] It's brutal. It was very well done. And then, of course, they asked me a little bit to comment it because I know IGP very well. Of course. I like to give comment without having a muzzle on my mouth. That means that I cannot resist to tell things. And we try to tell it the way that it is acceptable. [04:30] And yes, I have a little bit the freedom of the jester. The little clune from the kingdom who can say everything to the king without being killed. Well, that's the job of the jester as well, to be able to point out the fallacies of the society that they belong to. Right? That usually is an elephant in the room. Right? I don't think he said anything so provocative. [05:01] It was more informative and made it interesting to watch with details. And another thing for me, the old idea is to create a Champions League. And the Champions League is a league above the leagues like MMA, Mixed Martial Arts, is a league above the classic fighting clubs. Yes. In the beginning, everybody was thinking that it was a dead baby. [05:28] But it looks that it's become the biggest giant ever. And it started very small with the very, like I think judo or something, very, very like esoteric kind of wing of the MMA. And now it's inclusive with the whole fighting world. Right? And it also means that the normal federation can continue their jobs. But this is something above the federations. [05:54] And that's very important to understand for everybody that it is not an initiative to kill the federations. It's just an initiative to go above the federations, even without the rules from the federations later. And to go for a new event where there is a little bit more spices on the event to attract people. And live streaming, you know, perfect.

[06:20] So the whole world was online. And the whole world in IGP world. Yeah. You know, I've always, one of my favorite sayings is secrecy is the enemy of healing. Right? And so anytime that we bring clarity to any subject, it brings about an understanding that brings about healing as well, I think. You know? And I think that we have a disconnect with animals. And it makes sense that there might be a disconnect because we love these animals so much. [06:49] Right? And I remember when I first got involved with dog training. It might be the same for you, Michael. Because we were mostly with pet dogs. Right? And we walk into these houses and we see these people just loving on these dogs. And I started out with purely positive. Right? Only that's all I wanted to do was this purely positive type of philosophy. And I started to see that I entered into these situations with rose-colored glasses of like only purely positive. [07:19] But another one of my favorite quotes is like, when you're wearing rose-colored glasses, the red flags just look like normal flags. Right? And so I wasn't able to see the red flags right away until I saw a pattern of behavior in front of me. And usually it came about with competing motivators within the animal. Right? Whenever I had something that I wanted to give them as a positive reinforcement, they wanted something else way more than a street or this reward that I wanted to give them. [07:48] Right? That's the big problem from the moment, Bill, that the way you just were thinking in the past, most people are there. That means that most people owning a dog start in that emotional field, like you said, full of passion, but they are unaware that they are incompetent. [08:15] Totally incompetent. And then the next step is that they become aware that they are not competent. And in this industry, it bites you in the ass a lot of times when they show you how incompetent you are, you know, literally bites you in your ass. Then they start looking for more information and they go to seminars and they buy books and they buy whatever. [08:43] And then they are starting to be cognitive, very competent, but they cannot switch it around in reflex response and in practice. And then the level higher is the type of people that do it on automatic pilots. And that was, for example, the first time that I was Belgian champ, it was an automatic pilot.

[09:09] And then people ask you, hey, come and give a seminar. So that started in 1992. And then the first time you stand in front of the public, you realize bloody hell. What do I do? Yeah. What do I do? You are outspoken after five minutes. And after years and years and years and years of brainstorming, the brain, the head starts to understand what you do on automatic pilots. [09:42] So and that's why Michael and I started that school to tell people the whole cognitive process. And you went through the school, but it's not because you went to the school that you are perfect dog trainer. No. You are weapon. I'm not perfect. But nobody is perfect. We are not perfect either. So we still learn. So, but in a short period, you received so much information so that you don't have to look for the truth for 20, 30, 40 years. [10:15] And that's the whole point. And that positive only, that's the big quantity, because that's the big danger. What you just said is most people start there. And for the politicians, there are votes. Most people. Yeah. And what is very strange, Bill, is that in this dog world, the most votes are in the hands from people that know the less. [10:51] If you go to other professional sports, decides what the rest of the pyramid will do. Not in dog world. In dog world is the opposite. And the politicians tried to catch a lot of votes in that basic level of the pyramid. And that's what happens now. So, and that's why Michael and I, we realized that what we do in the old type of gold, we only reached maximum 30 people, 40 people in silver. [11:25] And then the hands on dogs, maximum 10 people. And that's why we decided, and that's the topic. [11:57] To make it more open to the big public. That means that we did kick off the train, the new train, the new Nepo Post Silver. So, we did find a big event hall where we can host, in this case, maximum 150 people. And we were very fast full. So, we had to open a second school that is now in June coming. [12:22] And that, again, is nearly full. And then we are so much on the pressure that Europe said, hey, hey, hey, hey, why are Michael and Bart staying in USA? So, we had to open a new Nepo Post Silver in Europe also. And that's also filling up like a train. And then Australia is also knocking at the door. Everybody's pushing. Everybody's pushing. But now comes the whole idea is that we reach more people. [12:49] And that the people that went through that new silver program will be trained in the hands on dogs by our, and there you are part of it, our multiplicator, the gold multiplicators. Yes.

[13:33] And then later, we're going to do the online Nepo Post New Silver, that we can reach the whole world. And like you said, that people can, in their language, via YouTube, via subtitling, follow the Nepo Post New Silver. Because Michael and I, we have so much demand, South America. You cannot believe how they are knocking. They got some all-stars in India as well. [13:59] Of course, India, Pakistan, China, Africa. Even Iran. Iran. So, we have so much demand. But now, if we go online, we will reach 1,500 people. And one day, 15,000 people. And one day, 150,000 people. [14:25] And one day, 1,500,000 people. And one day, 15,000,000 people. And one day, 150,000,000 people. And one day, 1,500,000,000 people. That's the goal. And now, we are politically a very interesting partner to hook up with for politicians. Now, we have something to say. Not because we know, but because we have a quantity. [14:53] Right. Because politicians always go to quantity. And for years, Michael and I have been the secret spies from sport people. And people that wanted to know more, like you and others. And then, we do something else also. We are pushing a lot of money in a game that will come online. Application. That people with their iPhone can play positive reinforcements. [15:21] And when they play well, the system will push them to negative reinforcements. And when they do well, the system will push them to Nepopo. And when they do well, the system will push them to the new Nepopo silver. And when they do well, you see, we're going to make it so that's a two-year project. And then, Michael and I are going to stop. But then, you see, we're trying to make it so that balanced training will go into regular households. [15:49] So that it won't be, so people will have some education. And it's a little bit like the Cassette, or how do you say it? The competition. Yeah, the competition. Because that, where they are showing it live, where everybody can watch it. And where Bart was moderating it and explaining it is, again, making it accessible to the public. And maybe in the beginning, there's not that many people interested. [16:15] But maybe it grabs a few people. And then it grabs a few people more. Because it's explaining how it's going. And it's free. And it's entertaining. It's entertainment. So I think it's all pushing in the same direction, which is very good. To make everything accessible to the public and not to only stars. Well, and I remember when I was watching some IPO stuff at Jackie's Place when I was doing the school.

[16:46] And I was right next to Bart. Because I'm a pet guy. I don't do the sport work, right? And so I'm like, what's going on, man? And he told me exactly what was going on. And then I had questions, especially about the decoy giving the cue to bite. Right? That was my big thing. I was like, I don't want anybody in the world giving my dog a cue. I want to be the one always giving my dog the cue. Right? But it depends on the games, Bill. I mean, and it's interesting. [17:13] And it's like always a lot of training techniques out of the sport games go to pet training because it works as well in pets as in the sport. It's like people go to the moon. And from the inventions from going to the moon, we have now a tefal pan that we cook with. And we have a lot of things that we use now that in the beginning were used to go to the moon. [17:39] So it's like in the car world, the ABS brakes were in the beginning only for the Formula One. Now every good car has ABS brakes. So the techniques will go down and are used by everything and by military and by law enforcement and by private people. And it's very important. But now comes if we reach that big quantity on people with the full quadrant, because Michael and I believe in the full quadrant. [18:10] And we have no problem that people train positive only. We have no problem with that. If the result is that they become responsible dog owners that on cue can make the dog do. And if possible with heart and soul. We like that. And if it works only positive, perfect, fine. But don't criticize people that use another system and that have results. [18:37] Accept that there is another way of doing. And that's what we see today is that there is a big unacceptance towards other training techniques than positive only. And that is unacceptable. Because if you preach positive reinforcement only, and if you preach the free thinking in your dog, you should accept the free thinking for other people training in other systems. [19:04] And there is a big unacceptance about that. I think it boils down to a misunderstanding about it. And that's when I went through silver school, you guys. I'm like, man, if I had this when I was a beginning dog trainer, my world would be totally different, man. I've been doing this since 2007 on my own here. And so 11, 12 years before I went to silver school.

[19:31] And I just remember being like, man, I just wish. I wish I had the fundamental understanding of the principles. And I think that that's what it boils down to, Bart and Michael. It's just that it's a misunderstanding. And then in the misunderstanding becomes this confusion that turns into like a weird salacious type of attack that they think that people are hurting. There's a huge misunderstanding about negative reinforcement, for example. And last night we made a little video of a simple negative reinforcement example in nature without our prodding where our dog was outside and it was cold. [20:09] And she came in and she laid by the fire. So enjoyed the heat of the fire. Enjoyed the heat of the fire. And then we've been trying to get this on video, but after a while, the fire gets too hot. Not the fire, the sensation. The warmth from the fire. He starts panting. And then she gets up and she moves to somewhere cooler. And again, that is a perfect example of negative reinforcement. [20:37] Whereas most people misinterpret negative reinforcement and they call it aversive and they think it's punishment. And so all those things are very... What was very typically... Disunderstood. That example that Michael explains is that the comfort of the heat later becomes the discomfort of the heat. [21:03] Yes. So it's not because it's comfortable at a certain moment that it stays comfortable. It becomes even non-comfortable. Right. And we go back to that Maslow pyramid. People that live in Maslow 4, it makes them feel very uncomfortable at a certain moment. And then they want to go run in the desert with no shoes and no water, for example. It's strange. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that you guys... The unique thing that you do, especially with the NAPOPO principles, is that you guys are starting first principles. [21:35] Like you're starting from... Do you know what I'm saying here? Where we're basically looking at the essential relationship that the dog has with the environment, the dog has with the human being. And kind of pinpointing where it's going wrong and how to make it right. And like Bart was saying, a lot of this stuff comes almost intuitive for some people. But I think that what's very attractive is that you guys are starting to document this stuff in a very deep and precise way.

[22:06] And just like we said, just like we have a comment here from Matt, it's like they say, it's all about definitions. Right? Negative is a very wobbly term. Right? To me, it means something else completely to somebody else, completely to somebody. Right? And so getting protocols, getting procedures, but also that is not where you guys are really, really focused on. You're focused on the actual definitions, the core understanding of what underlies this. [22:34] And then the protocols and procedures are then taken and refined through the years by the professional that the individual that is already has an intrinsic desire to work with these animals. Now they have a subset of understanding that makes their job much more easier for them because now they understand it. And now they know where they're going. And there's another example. [22:59] The other day I was out training with my young puppy, Zot, who's never seen a cat before in his life. And of course, a little, I guess, a very hungry, thirsty kitten comes through the fence straight at him. He turns around. He never saw a cat before. His hair goes up. He drops his Frisbee. He's ready to go. And I want to, should I click with a clicker and bring him back for a piece of kibble? [23:30] Liver treat? It's not going to work. So I gave him a little aversive stim that, no, he's not allowed to go and chase after and kill that cat. Because that's the nature, right? No, that's, I mean, it's normal that he would want to do that, but I have insurance. And then after that, it was not so high that he avoided the kitten. And at the end, the kitten came over and they were friends. [23:57] So sometimes you need a little negative. Well, and then the definition again, animal welfare. It's forbidden without valid reason to inflict pain or to make, in this case, the dog suffer. What is the valid reason? To save a human being from the bite. [24:23] And another valid reason is to save the life of the dog or the life of other animals. Right. Which would save the life of the cat. Imagine that the dog would interpret it as pain. Well, that's his problem. But the kitten is still alive. And after that, they became friends. Right. So there's no problem. Right. Yeah. Well, it's so narrow-minded. Right. Nature is brutal, man. You know, and the correction that I give a dog is the same correction that I will receive myself.

[24:50] And there's nothing that I will not do to a dog that I will not do to myself and that by itself. But it's also the understanding of we are mitigating and helping this dog understand it. What's what? I'm thinking of something. Yeah, you at Silver School. We did the e-color test. Oh, yeah. I took it. I always was dreaming. And we didn't know that you were dreaming. So we did sabotage you. [25:16] I was auditing, man. I remember that like yesterday. And everybody received a little spin. And Bo or Bill did receive, I think it was level 9 or level 10. No, I said, what level was that, Bart? And Bart couldn't even talk. He's like, eight, rising. Wait, wait, wait. I'm going to imitate your face. It was on your arm. I'll never forget it. And I was implementing. You were looking again. [25:42] And when you were putting it on your arm again, I did zap you again. And you high. I had so much fun. You cannot believe. But that was unexpected. And when it's unexpected, it's always like, whoa. If you expect it, there's no problem. You can have it. It's something very special. Yeah. Well, you also have to remember that we have a relationship. [26:08] You know what I'm saying? Like, I know you. You and me? Yeah, yeah. It's nice to me. Congratulations, guys. I'm looking at babies out of that relationship. Are you kidding me? Imagine the hair. Well, I was thinking that it was another lady. Remember? I thought it was a lady in front of me. And then I look up at you. And I see your face laughing. [26:34] And I'm like, oh, you son of a gun. Oh, my goodness. And then I was like, Bart, what was that at? Because I'm holding my chips. I'm eating my Doritos or my son's chips in the other hand. Bill, you know, we like to laugh a little bit. But to go back to that 1,500,000,000 people that have information of the full quadrant. A lot of them will continue and they will come to the full information. [27:01] Because the whole idea is that they start in games. Michael and I are strong believers that every exercise with a dog also should start with a game. That it is in the advantage of the dog to do the exercise. An example. I was commenting that competition three days ago. And some people cannot control the dogs in competition because it is not a game for the dog.

[27:26] Because there is no advantage for the dog. You must find a system where the dog has the advantage. And the advantage of the dog must be the advantage of the dog owner. And that dog will always stay on the highway. We call it the advantage highway. Why should the dog go away from that advantage zone? There is no reason. So, it must be a rewarding road. [27:51] They must want to. Of course. For whatever reason. Of course. Yeah. And then, long story short, we did do a little bit videos yesterday. And then, we have our dog. And then, when she barks on that dog trophy. She's in such high drive. She loves it so much. And then, on purpose, we drop a ball. And she say, huh. [28:17] I'm barking. I'm going to continue barking. And the second can I say, okay. I'm going to. And then, with the ball, she goes back. That means that, for that dog, barking is rewarding. The control position of making the ball come out. Yes. And what people must understand is, if you train a dog, even in rewarding, you give the plus reward. The plus reward comes behind the behavior. [28:43] The idea is that the behavior becomes the reward due to classic conditioning. Right. That's the big advantage from negative reinforcement. When you stop the little discomfort, the behavior is immediately the reward. There is no bridging in between. And that's why it goes faster. Because the more bridges you have, the longer it takes before the bridges bridge to each other. [29:08] And that's what people don't grab. It's magic. But to go back to those 1,500,000,000 people, once we have that, we are a quantity that politicians cannot ignore anymore. And we go for the full quadrant. And we believe in licensing. We're going to push for licensing. What people don't understand is that all the shit that happens in Europe will happen in the US. [29:35] When Europe is sick, USA is sniffing. And vice versa, when America is sick, Europe is sniffing. And the rest of the world, the same thing. So it's, and certainly today, due to internet, it goes much faster. That means that one month ago in France, in the chamber, that is where they decide the new laws, they call it Assemblée Générale. [30:03] There is a lady from the left wing that says, well, I have a new proposal, new law proposal. No more pinch collar for dogs, no more chocolors, and no more ecolors, exception the French army because they use Népupo. That law proposal has been nearly unanimous accepted by the chamber. So now the Senate must vote over that.

[30:32] And that will be, I think, after September. If the Senate votes the same thing that it is only allowed with, for example, Népupo, it's about licensing. We did not lobby for this. We did not try to influence people. What we did is we did teach people in the French army. And they did do a good explanation, I suppose. But the main thing was that if in the army a dog bites an enemy, the dog owner must stop that bite ASAP. [31:11] Because if they don't, it's the Geneva Convention that comes in the game. And the Geneva Convention overrules animal welfare. That means that that soldier has big problems because he cannot make his dog out because he has no tools. And you can train a dog a thousand times in training on what we call sleeves or whatever, protections. The real bite is something else. [31:37] That means that that soldier cannot make his dog out in reality. And if I'm the soldier, I say, well, to the judge from Geneva Convention, my colonel did not give me the tools to react. And I was never trained for the reality. And you know who goes in jail? The colonel. Because he is the responsible. That's how it works in hierarchy. So they did understand that very well. [32:03] It means that the big Waterloo War will come in France. If France decides for that prohibition and only an exception for Népropo, it will be a domino effect in the whole world. Because the rest of Europe will follow and the rest of the world will also follow. That is how it works. And at the end, you know, there is nothing wrong about the licensing. [32:33] There was one day too many accidents on the roads. And then they decided to introduce a license to drive a car. And that did diminish drastically accidents. There are still accidents, but it did diminish drastically. Another example. One day they did see that there is too much analfabetics on the world. So there is one day that in a certain country, in French they say Charlemagne, did say everybody must go to school to stop analfabetism. [33:05] It's again a license. You can turn it how you want. If you want to be a butcher, you need a license. If you want to open a restaurant in Europe, you need a license. You need a license for everything. If it's that the way to keep our dog sport and our tools, it's the way to go. Why are people fighting this? Because now, Michael and I, we have two new enemies. The first enemy is our competitors don't consider us as competitors anymore.

[33:33] They consider us as the devil and the enemy. Because we have specific patents and we like to share them with them. We have no problem, but nobody asks it. That's one. And two, and that is even worse, the dog trainers that don't want a license prefer that everything goes in the ditch than to follow lessons. Can you believe that? I can. I can. But it's not. [33:58] I mean, there's so much to unpack here. You know, but I think that it makes sense. Politicians, you know, whenever they hear this, like, choke chain, pinch collar, e-call, all that stuff, automatically they're turned off. But then once they hear military, they're like, okay, then they have a use for this, right? And so politics, they often, they often kowtow to military because they know a little bit more about the world than the politician does. [34:31] And especially aspects of the world that might not be the pleasant sunshine rainbow part of the world, right? But it's necessary, you know? Yes. And it's easier. In France, for example, the politicians will follow the majority. If the majority says we don't want it, the politicians will say, okay, we don't want it. But then comes something else. For example, they make 60% happy, but they make 40% unhappy. [35:02] Politicians don't want 40% to be unhappy. Then they say, okay, let's find a trick to make also the 40% happy. Ah, the licensing. That's what's going to come. And then everybody happy. Well, and the politicians, like, how do I get this off of me? Where can I put this? I'm going to put that military or somebody else. Hey, that's not me that's making this decision. I voted for, you know. And what's totally amazing is that since that thing happens in France, there is something going on in the whole world. [35:33] So it's not only in France. So maybe it's after Corona that people don't like anymore to follow like a sheep. We have the impression that worldwide there is something going on and that people are a little bit standing up and certainly dog trainers. Because, for example, what people don't understand is in Germany. If they catch you with a pinch collar or e-caller working your dog, the maximum penalty can be five years of jail. [36:04] And the maximum financial penalty can be 25,000 euro, which is equivalent to $25,000. No, it's more. A little bit more. But that's why they don't like to tell people. So people are a little bit afraid to work with those things. And that's why they shut them out. The majority shuts them out. And there is a vocal minority that makes sound like for a whole army and everybody's afraid.

[39:33] And then we would tell them, and now you are allowed to pay membership cards. Because that's where it goes wrong. They sell membership cards to make quantity, but they don't inform people. So, but nobody dares to do it because they think, huh, if we oblige people to do that, nobody will come. Well, it's the same. To Michael and me, people said, when we said we're going to stop seminars, [40:01] we're going to start the school, everybody said, are you guys crazy? Nobody will come to the school. Well, we have so much demand that we must increase the volume of teaching, the room, and we must decrease from five days to three days. So we have so much demand that everybody told us nobody will come. Nobody is so crazy to come. Well, people are crazy. [40:26] They come. What can I say? Absolutely. There is more and more people that want to come. And we are convinced that if you introduce the license, it will make the doc community much bigger, but the license in a full information and not in the advertising positive only. Because the lie is that in positive only, they always speak about adding nice things, adding nice things, adding nice things. [40:57] They never speak about the consequence of not doing. Stop the game and take away and don't give what the dog likes and needs. Never speak about that. Never, never, never. So it is advertising tool. And then, because they never speak about it, secretly, people use the tools of negative reinforcement, the plus correction, to correct the dog in a language that the dog never had. [41:26] And we call that opone. And of course, on good dogs, that system works also. No problem. But a normal dog doesn't take that. In fact, some dogs shut them down. Of course. Very confusing to them, you know. Like, God, for the dumbest, Bill out the back is. I insult you in my language. That's what people do. People correct their dog in another language. And yes, some dogs take that, but most dogs don't take it. [41:55] So what can I say? Because they don't follow the whole system. They always follow a part of the system. And Michael and I, we make it so clear to everybody. We never, never, never ridiculize positive reinforcement. As a matter of fact, we are very positive trainers. We use it in the full power. But we also are not naive. And we add the full power of negative reinforcement that one day can become a plus correction.

[42:24] Well, and I think that we, as professionals, we owe it to our clients when they whip out that money, right, to show us the most effective and efficient way to train that dog, that that's where we run into problems. Because the timetable of the positive reinforcement schedule is just unobtainable for these people that are expecting this problem to stop. And not only that, but I also say we don't reinforce positively to get behavior to stop. [42:55] Like, we're going to have to meet up with a correction or boundary or something to show this dog, what we expect from them, right? What is the first thing you always see if you come in the home of people? The Himalaya of food, the kibble. The Himalaya of food. That's the first thing you see. Try to teach that dog with food. There is no hungerness. There is no hangerness. You know what that dog thinks. Hey, Bill. [43:21] Go and play somewhere else, eh? Yeah. I'm not prepared to take that away. If they are prepared to take the Himalaya mountain of food away, then after one week, you can have success. Not one week of starving, but one week of diminishing drastically that food quantity. Because people that, a big quantity of people, are very inhumane towards their dogs, eh? [43:46] They make them fat as an elephant. Most dogs are 30% overweighted. That's the biggest crime that they do. But nobody speaks about it. Nobody ever speaks about it. Number one health issue in dog industry is obesity. But with the kids today, you see the same thing, eh? The kids today, they are not very thin anymore, eh? If you see pictures from the days when we were young, we were all looking like you could count our ribs. [44:13] And we were not hungry, eh? Yeah. Not at all. Well, I think that it's, people don't, it feels mean to them to do this, right? It's all about feelings, right? And when I have to get into the situation is, I'm like, look, you're paying me money. And I'm kind of like the logic guy. I'm introducing some logic into this relationship. And I have to remind them we can't think with our feelings. And I also have to remind them that doing what's right, doing what's right in any relationship doesn't always feel good, right? [44:46] And we don't, you know, and it's just a pie in the sky idea of like this relationship with this dog is not meant to only please you and make you feel a certain way. It's a relationship with the living being. And we owe it to this animal to be steward of this animal so that they're fulfilled in the relationship as well as the human counterpart. And that's why in nature. Fat animal.

[45:13] That's the animal in the hands of human beings. Because in the nature, it's still a fat animal. Well, the bears fatten up for the winter. Don't you, Michael? Fatten up is a big word, eh? Well, they fatten up so they can hibernate. Well, and listen, what happens with the, is that, where did I learn that? Did I learn that with you guys? No, I learned this with a meditation seminar about how we can switch our bodies using our mindset. [45:40] And you talk about bear and how the bear's hibernation, like the blood changes, everything changes, right? That's nature, right? And then when we look at scientific method, what's the first thing that we do in scientific method when we're trying to figure something out? We observe. We observe that which is, right? And that's how something happened with me as a positive only trainer is I observed that which is, and I observed my dogs losing their mind. [46:07] Like turning it into a manic, crazy method, right? That's one of the things that we were really focusing on at the new silver school is responsible dog ownership. And that means, like, for example, I go back to Zot and that little cat. I'm on my own property. That cat came on my property. So responsible ownership means you're prepared for, to protect your dog and other animals and other children, other people. [46:43] Responsibility is the ability to respond. Yes. Yeah. And then you can train dogs to respect cats. Well, with those three cats, they will respect them until cat number four comes. And then there is a new thing going on. We know that. It's the same with dog aggression. We did see that a lot. You train dogs that are aggressive to not be aggressive. And then you have dogs that can handle that very well. And then you train with 50 other people. [47:10] Never a problem. Until there is a problem. There is a dog that has the aggression problem. And your dog that had it, they smell it from each other. And boom, it goes on. And there you are. Right. They smell it from each other. How they do, nobody knows. I think same with people, dude. Same with people. Like, there's some person I'm like, I got to get out of this room because I don't like this guy or whatever. Right. There's just something that maybe we don't know what is underlying that's affecting our behavior.

[47:38] But there's, yeah. And we have to have the ability to respond to that. Right. And where I'm working with reactive dogs, I'm saying this dog is reacting. This dog isn't responding. Like, I need to get this dog to respond to me. Not to react. I need the dog. Like Viktor Frankl. You know, we talk about, Viktor Frankl is A Man's Search for Meaning. It's one of my favorite books. [48:04] And he talks about between stimulus and response, there's a gap. And in that gap is your choice. And in that choice is your freedom. And I feel the same way with that dog. I'm like, in this gap, we need to widen this gap of stimulus to reaction to make you respond. But once you respond, you're going to have so much more freedom. We're going to have so much more fulfillment in life. But it's opening the lines of communication. [48:30] To go back to that aggressive thing. I remember when I was walking Zot. Top dog Zot. That was a psychopath. So I knew that. But full under control. And I always had his e-collar on so that in case of emergency, I could always interfere. So, and Michael and I, we like to walk our dogs free. So to give them freedom that they can enjoy and run and whatever. [48:58] And of course, you have places for that. And where we live in Belgium, there is a place where we live there. And we walk our dog there. And then all the people that don't live there try to use that field because they know it's a big field. And they let and they cut their dogs loose. But those dogs don't listen. Right. So that's the first irresponsible dog ownership. Yes. And they let their dog runs behind rabbits. [49:24] And that the rabbits are running for their life. And that they are afraid. And killed. And killed. They don't care. Right. But then the dog comes. Those dogs came to my dog. And I say, mate, leg, down. Boom. And he downs. And he had always a dumbbell from six pounds in his mouth. That's a dumbbell. Clack. And he holds it. And then I tell the people, hey, your dog is aggressive. And he wants to attack my dog. [49:49] No, no. He's friendly. Well, friendly. My ass. The neck fur up. The teeth. Growling. I say, that dog is not friendly. He's friendly. He said, okay. Then I said to my dog, drop it. He drops it. And then the secret command. Boom. He nailed. Immediately he nailed that dog in three seconds. So I gave him the fun to fight a little bit for three seconds. And call back. The other dog was screaming. And he'd run away.

[50:16] So if people don't want to listen, they must feel. And their dog must feel. That's the worst. But the next time that they saw me, immediately they were leashing up the dog. And they turned around 500 yards. Another anecdote. I'm running around the fort where I live. Stay fit. And then there is, and I never forget it. It's not a golden retriever. It's the Irish setter. [50:41] That followed me. And the teeth up. I stopped. And I watched. And where's the owner? And then there is a lady. Oh, it's my dog. He's nice. I said, okay. I continue running. And then again, in my legs. Bah, bah, bah, bah, bah. And tried to bite me. And I stopped again. I said, hey, lady. That's not a nice dog. He's nice. I said, okay. And I continued my run. And then again, the dog was there. I grabbed the dog. [51:06] I grabbed the dog immediately. And I jumped with him in the water. Because I run around the water. And I jumped. And this was winter. I never forget it. I jumped with that dog in the water. And I did keep him on the water for two seconds. And then I let him go. Oh, you never saw a dog running away so fast. The lady was pissed and screaming. I don't give a shit. The next time she saw me, the leash was on. That's how it must be. They are irresponsible. [51:32] Right. And they should not let that dog run. Because if I'm afraid, it's me that is dying and doing in my pants. Right. And they don't respect that. So there are a lot of irresponsible dog owners. And I don't know why. But they are like that. Right. And you cannot... A lot of people are... What do they call it? Where they think they own the world. You know? Entitled. Entitled. I don't know what it is, Michael. [51:59] But there's something that is... It's just different. Like there's an arrogance or a pompous. But like you said, sometimes a consequence. Right? Consequence. Like the sequence is coming together for the outcome. It could be good. It could be bad. But here's what happened. There you go. That lady would say, hey, what do you do? Then I say, well, this morning I did wake up as a Rottweiler. I feel like a Rottweiler. And I must fight with... Yeah.

[52:24] In those days, you couldn't do that. In those days, that change did not work. Today, that does work. What can I say? Well, I think that there's also been... And I think it always boils down to our feelings, man. I think that this really boils down to the problem with the industry. Boils down to people just not feeling or just not understanding. But it boils down to our feelings. And there's a reason why corporations spend billions and billions of dollars to get people to view their product in the emotional arena. [52:55] Right? They want to get the people to fall in love with their product so they buy it without even thinking. People already love their dog. Right? And so they're already in that emotional arena. That's where we work and live. But what sucks is that it's so emotional is that a lot of times it's void of reason. And people try to use their emotions to navigate the relationship. And they think that love is all that they need. Right? But... A jacket for dogs? [53:22] A harness. A harness, yeah. Recently I did read. It was a healing harness. I never saw a healing harness in my life. It's always pull harnesses. Yeah, yeah. Or no pull, yeah. Healing harness? Yeah, to heal. Anyway, and I was thinking, how can you make advertising for that? [53:47] And there is people falling for that and they buy it. And of course the dog is not healing. Of course the dog is going to pull. It's a pull harness. That's why they... Oh my goodness. That's why sled dogs wear a harness. Of course. Because they can run and pull. It's the nature of those dogs to do opposite reflex. That's why they... The reason why licensing going back is an important aspect of anything is that it brings about a standardization. [54:18] Yeah. And the standards, like even... Like I don't... I think that there are very little standards when it comes... Especially in the pet dog world, man. Like I just want a cool dog to hang out with me and chill on the couch. That's basically what... And I'm like, well... I mean... I want that too. Big pet... By Pet... Mark known at Pet Expo? [54:45] No, not yet. Not yet. 99% from all the products sold there, the dog does not need. It's the owner that, like you said, is in an emotional way and they buy it. It's the owner that does buy it. The dogs don't need it, eh? They don't need it at all. But that's the whole business is based on that, eh? So... And for me, business is business. Nothing wrong with that. But it's like you say, eh? They play on the emotions of people and so on and so on.

[55:12] Well, they make contraptions that strike at the leaves of the problem, right? Which don't even work, right? And then they make promises that are untrue. And I don't like that. That's unethical to me. And I think that a lot of times, too, I'm in situations where I'm fixing a problem that has been made way worse by a so-called professional. That's why he was barking. [55:38] There is somebody at the door and we live on the big farm, so Michael must go. Oh, it's all good. Hey, Bill, you know that we like to keep it short. Do you have specific topics that we must go over? Yes, we do. So I want to talk about the collar innovations that you're doing with the collar. Okay. And the Martin Systems collar and what we're adding to the collar. And then I also want to go, because we have a lot of comments. So I want to go through these comments. And if you guys have any questions, go ahead and type them in the comments here. [56:06] And then we'll see if we can get them asked here. So let's talk about the collar. About the collar. Michael and I are the full owner. It means 100% of Martin's system. That means that Michael and I did kick out all the products that did not have the patents that where we do believe in. So it was for us very important. [56:32] So we did kick out our anti-bark collar because there was no contact measurement in the anti-bark collar. And because there was no SSC in the anti-bark collar. And because our anti-bark collar was not better than the competitors. So we said, no, stop that. We did push out of our portfolio the invisible fencing, which again had no contact measurement [56:59] and which had not the consistent reliable stim. We said, out. We don't need that product. And our co-workers were very unhappy when we did take that decision. Are you guys crazy? So maybe, but let us do this. We believe in it. So we did kick it out. Another thing that we did kick out is the GPS, the MPS for Martin's system. Because the MPS, the GPS is a very complicated tool that was bought by people that are 60 years [57:28] plus, 60 years plus people that do have the money to buy 15, 16 colors because they're running in the pack. But they are technically not up to the level of product. So they went for hunting on the weekend. They were too lazy to read the manual. And then, of course, if you don't use your product to the manual, it cannot work. So it causes too much problems.

[57:55] And then not only that, but then they threaten you because you become responsible for their idiocy of not knowing the product. We say, whoa, whoa, whoa, out. So we did keep the products that do have the contact measurement. Okay. What people must understand is that 95% from all the people with all the brands, also with our brand, they do not have contact with the contact points. [58:21] The contact points don't make contact with the skin. And due to that, the low steam is not felt by the dog because that low steam is not enough to make bridging electricity. It's 18 hours. That's why they crank it up. And at a certain level, there is enough energy and it jumps over. And that's what we call the bridging electricity. That's what we call the III steam. It's the dog that does III. [58:46] And if it's not a dog that says III, it's the owner that says III because the dog bites him. So contact measurement is a must for us. Another thing is very important is what we call the SSC, the consistent reliable steam. That means that due to weather conditions, due to water, it changes the resistance of the skin. And for example, when a dog is in the water, the dog comes out of the water. [59:13] The skin is totally wet. That means that the conductivity is easy. That means that the sensation of the dog will increase. You implement the same level, but the dog will feel it two, three, four times more. And that's why the professionals always have two hands and they nonstop are rotating and reading their dog. But Joe Bob cannot do that. So that's why our product does that automatically, that you cannot by accident of not knowing the [59:45] humidity, over steam the dog. Another thing is the finger kick, which is a very practical tool, which gives you better timing and more discretion for Europe. And you have your hands free. Then we have the chameleon patent that is the patent about the mechanics where you can put contact points on different spots to decrease necrosis possibility and to decrease the fact [60:11] that dogs desensitize on the same point. And you can add more or less to make it more or less sensitive. About the contact measurements. Michael has a horse and we do a lot of tests because they say horses are tough and then they need a lot of electricity to respond. My ass. A horse can feel a fly on their back.

[60:39] And you can see it with their muscle. You can see their muscle. Of course. And some people say that it's just reflexive, that they're not thinking of that, but they still feel it and it's annoying. So it's nagging to them. So what we do see is that, and we saw that immediately, we don't have contact with horses. And then we ask our engineer, he did research. Horses have a fur that is three times more dense than the fur of a dog. [61:05] Three times more. That means that it decreases by factor three the chance that you make contact. Interesting. And the chance that they'll feel the original contact measurement stim is higher for a horse because they're very sensitive. No, that's why we changed everything. Our engineer, they changed everything. And Michael, recently she was showing a few videos how she can recall that horse from 100 [61:35] yards, 200 yards to 50 yards. And of course, in the beginning, he was trying to not react on it. And then tap, tap, tap in the aquarium stairs until he came in the direction of Michael and then Michael stopped stimming. That horse is very intelligent. Now it goes, when Michael calls, it gallops to Michael and with hope, ears up, very proud. It means that that story from horses are very strong against stim is bullshit. [62:07] They are even more sensitive than dogs to stim. Right. My dog is using a higher stim than my horse. Of course. By a lot. Of course. So horses are very, very sensitive. The question is, why do you need an e-collar for a horse? Because you sit on the horse and you can give your tactile commands, which is true. So good horse riders say, why do I need it? [62:32] Well, me, I need it when I sit in the boogie and if the horse is in front of me to go left, right, some people do it with the reins. We like to do it with the tactile commands of the e-collar. So we do innovative work because we believe that those tactile commands left, right will become the tactile command for the dogs, which we do camera work with, where most dogs in the camera work are trained the opposite way. [62:59] Look to the handler and then you give your hand commands. We go away from that. We stay behind the dog immediately. So it is for us very interesting to see that horses are so sensitive. So it is bullshit what they say. And we're going to show that later also. And there is a big market in the horse world. It's like most horse people are using.

[63:27] Yes, that's that little thing. Yes. Well, it's one of them. One of them. There you see him coming. With Michael. Yes. And Michael retuned her collar and her. There you go. There's a reward. I think, yes. So every level, level one is one milli micro amps, level two, two micro amps. It's micro amps. It's nothing. It is nothing. [63:53] And there he comes. And of course, in the beginning, Michael was giving that horse carot when the horse came and so on and so on. So recall from horses. It is not possible. La la la lee and la la la. Well, Michael shows the opposite. Wow. You must be brutal. No, there is harmony. Because if it was brutal, they run away. They run away in the hole. There's 26 acres to run away. [64:20] In the beginning, little bastard was trying to escape. That's true. At a low level, tap, tap, tap. You cannot go out of this aquarium. And about the innovation. Well, with our modern Michael and Dow, we are testing what we call the Chameleon 4. And the Chameleon 4 will, on the transmitter, tell you if you have skin contact or not. Which is super nice. On the transmitter, you will have the temperature shown on the color. [64:48] On the transmitter, it will tell you if the bidirectional radio waves are coming or not. And in addition to that, we're going to make it much farther via phone technology. So, we are coming out with stuff you cannot believe. And of course, it has a price card. It will be around $3,000 and plus. People don't have to buy it. We don't care. We make it. And it is expensive. [65:14] And one day, we can make it cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. But for the moment, there is no other way for us. We make it because we are not nickeling and diming with our engineer about it can only cost so much. We tell him, make it. That's it. It's the only company that's ran by dog professionals. Yeah. The rest of them are ran by engineers. And so, it's worth the money. And that's what I tell people. [65:39] I don't buy anything else from my clients. You know that last school, we did invite our whole management to come to the new Naples Post Silver School. They were there. Is this it right here? Yeah. That's the school. That's the school. Yeah. And all our important subcontractors, they were there. Because they are thinking, how do Michael and Bart do that?

[66:07] They are dog trainers. They think that we live in a skimmy world, you know? And we said, no, come and see. After them being there, and they also did listen. And took the test. And they also took the test. And they said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is not normal. They are so jacked up, you cannot believe. And now they feel even more proud because they see, whoa, they are there from the whole world. [66:35] So they feel like they are part of this magic story. It's fantastic. Our subcontractors that were also not aware of what we do, they were there. They said, Michael Bart is fantastic. So, I mean, which company does that? So we want them to know what we do and why we do. Because in the beginning, they did not like too much our decisions. Right. And we said, well, you're paid anyway. [67:01] Go. But now they believe in it. So they are so proud you cannot believe. And yes, we go nonstop for new ideas. Nonstop, nonstop, nonstop. That's why I love it. Last time we spoke, too, it was before I went to silver, before I went to gold. Right. Oh, really? Yeah. I didn't go to that. I didn't go to any school before we spoke last. And it was years ago. [67:27] And that video has been viewed 30,000, 40,000 times, you know? You were one of those little... I'm going to draw it, eh? How the picture was made. Oh, no. Don't draw. Yeah, I will. I remember you've drawn me with the backpack on the... Okay. Very good. That's beautiful. Like that with only a half of people. Because due to COVID, we did not dare to make a group picture. [67:52] Right. I was. Of course. Of course. I was there. I wouldn't have missed it. You guys listen to me. Like, I'm so thankful. I'm so thankful. You know, not just that I learned from you guys, but that I took the initiative. I drove 35 hours. They canceled all my plane tickets, everything. I rented a car, packed everything in there. Remember that? Wow. And then the first week... I was supposed to attend the first week, but I was late. So I had to audit the first week and then do the second gold. [68:19] Yeah. But the thing is, it's different. It's different in a way that it's upper echelon. Like, it's thorough. And the protocols that you guys have are mapped. And that's where I'm saying, like, you guys have started from first principles here. Like, I wish I had this. And I implore any new trainers out there... We're going to give that for free to the whole world in the application.

[68:48] Beautiful. I'm telling you... The world needs it. The world needs this. You know the price of that application. That's our pension. There it goes, eh? It is 750,000 plus to start. Just to start. Oh, I know. Okay? I know. And you guys have made sacrifices. You guys have... And that's the other thing that people don't realize is that it's taken a lot to get to where you're at. But I believe we're at a bifurcation, man. No, not still. [69:14] Michael and I, in COVID, we were traumatized by the fact that all our shipments went worldwide. But due to the fact that COVID was hitting worldwide, the UPS guy did not have to take the signature. Because we always send it signature required. 10 units per month did disappear. It means, yes. Fell out of the truck. Two weeks later, they email us, please, can I have a finger kick and another feathers? [69:46] The person that previously told us, I did not receive it. So we had to reimburse it. And Michael and I were sick and tired of that. But that's also one of the reasons why now, in April, everything in our company will be shipped without STEM. We call it STEM is disabled. Disabled. Worldwide. And it's also because it's too complicated. If you send it to Switzerland, it must be disabled. [70:14] If you send it to certain states in Australia, it must be disabled. It creates too much problems. So we disable everything. And we oblige people to go to Dogify. We oblige people to learn their fucking gear. Because people are too lazy and they don't want to know the gear. Well, we oblige them over Dogify to learn it. And knowing your gear is part of responsible ownership. [70:40] Of course. Of course. Otherwise, it's not involuntary over STEM. It's voluntary over STEM. Of course. Of course. I don't want anything to do with that crowd. We oblige people to learn as much as possible about their gear. Because most people do have problems with their dog. Most people are nervous when they take that problematic dog. And in addition of that, they don't know their tools. [71:06] So there are two problematic things. A problematic dog and a problematic situation where the owner does not know what they do with their technical gear. It's a no, no go. It's a no go. And you remember how we did drill in the silver on the E-color manipulation. We did drill it in you guys. Now in the new silver, we have no time for that.

[71:31] That's why before we start to use silver, we tell them you must know Dogify and you must know Dogify inside out. Because what people don't know neither is we were making a Dogify virtual thing. The whole world can go for free on Dogify. And the whole world without having our brand can play with the transmitter. Without having any brand. Any brand. It is not. [71:57] They can play with it. Who does that? So now we oblige people that have our brand. You must know your bloody tool. And if you don't know it, we will not help you. We will only help you via the service center if you are doing your stinky best. And we don't need customers that don't want to learn. We don't need them because they have bad advertising. Nor do we want them. You want people that are committed and people that are ready to do whatever it takes. [72:25] Because it is that involuntary stim that is already a stim too much. And that's because they don't know their gear. We oblige them. You must know your gear. The involuntary stim is a big hammer that destroys trust. Yes. Between you and your animal. And that is something that should be avoided at all costs. And that's why the one thing that sold me. I remember when I first met you and you showed me this collar. [72:51] And I'm like, are you kidding? I was at the IACP five years ago. Well, the first time you met me, you were like, you need to shave. Yeah. You look like shit. You look like shit. You need to shave. And you throw my beard up at me. I was like, I love this guy. I need to learn from him. Did Bart have his squirrel beard at that time? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was. It was pretty. I didn't want to say anything. But anyway. But yeah. [73:16] I mean, this is, you know, I think this is what makes you guys so special. Is it that you are in it for the animals and it's pretty obvious. It's like we are passionate about what we do. And it's I think that the world is getting cognizant of a different form of what's possible. Right. Everything Michael and I does will always start with the bullet points. And number seven will become number one. [73:42] Yeah. It is forbidden without valid reason to inflict pain or to make your dog suffer. What is a valid reason where you must inflict pain? What does that? Right. Two facts. There is no discussion about that. And then there is two variable parameters. And it is what is the definition of pain and what is the definition of suffering, which is very subjective. So we're going to work on all that.

[74:10] Another thing. And you can already do that with the chameleon 3B and with the micro 3B. You can tune your output yourself. Every number. You can spice it like you think your dog needs it. And you think your dog needs it means you must be able to read your dog. If you cannot read your dog, you should go and stop training dogs. You must go play billiard or something else. [74:37] If you cannot feel, smell, feel your dog, you're not at the right place. And I know normal pet owners that feel very well their dog. You must not be a top trainer. Right. The animal tells you that. I must go out. They scratch on the door. I want to come in. They bark in front of the door. There's nothing new. I'm thirsty. They start licking in the empty food bowl. The drink. If you don't see that, you should not train animals. [75:06] That is the thing that people must learn. That is that little interaction. Sorry, but if you cannot see that, don't go to a dog trainer because that dog trainer will train your dog. But you are too lazy to implement all that. So what Michael and I always tell is train the owners of the dog. And if he doesn't want to be trained, you don't need a customer like that. Right. [75:31] You don't need that stinky bastard. What can I say? Would that be blood money? Well, it is blood money. It is blood money. But you must say no to stinky deals. That's right. Even when money is right there on the line. You must say no. And the people are desperate sometimes, you know. But you must say no because they're not. Bow Wow Bill and The Bellons 27 March 2023 Bow Wow Bill and The Bellons - 27 March 2023