반려견과 노는 방법 || 2회 세계 챔피언 Ivan Balabanov와의 대화

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something when we were on the field and he, um, I was just kind of trying to go through the whole routine. Of course, typically in training, I have a certain things that I would do right before, like the last three days, like it's this really important kind of preparation. And once that's skipped, you've got to go to plan B and plan C, which that's just the beauty of competition. That's kind of why we do it, I guess, cause there is, it never goes exactly how you want it to be planned, no matter how well you plan it. Um, so yeah, he, he ended up going over the jump and on the way back, he touched it pretty hard. And I want to think partially was me throwing that dumbbell a little bit too short, but also him not having that, um, spring that he normally does because of the shoulder. So that was costly. And then in protection, he, you know, like in IGP, when they bark in the blind, then you have to call them when the judge gives you a sign, you have to call them and they come into a heel position. So he was so happy that he's finally doing protection cause of that little bit of a break. And I call him to come in a basic position and he comes on the other side of me in a perfect basic position, but completely unaware that something is wrong. And that's, I mean, it's a funny thing now, when you look back, but it's a, another kind of costly mistake. So yeah, competitions it's, it's so now we have a lot to do for the next one. Um, but yeah, that's kind of behind now. Now I'm really just trying to focus on, on the school and the people that's going to come and going over all the tests and stuff like that. Um, but we will be talking about play. I'm guessing. Yes. Yes. So a transition into the power of play and, um, the importance of play when it comes to establishing a good relationship and building a bond with your dog. Yeah. Um, so plays are, it's a very, I can really talk a lot about it and I'll, I'm just going to kind of start talking and see where we go with that and probably bounce back and forth in different areas. Um, play is a like, like it's, it used to be even like 10, 15 years ago that even scientists didn't pay attention, didn't consider play as important as it actually is to, to, to, to humans and, and dogs as I'm gonna explain in a little bit. Um, it's always used to be to where play is this thing that we do in our spare time. It wasn't a, anything of big importance like this. Okay. We have nothing to do. Let's have some fun. Let's do some play. Um, but there is a, um, a lot of, a lot of studies, a lot of stuff that went on and now we know that all my mammals,

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especially like anything from a little rodent to a dog and a horse and humans, of course, we are actually biologically programmed to play. Like we don't, we have a need to do that. It's not like something that we need to, uh, uh, somebody needs to teach us. Like we can learn how to play games or how to do whatever activities, but the desire and, uh, to interact through plays it's, you know, we're, it's in our DNA if you want to put it that way. And all mammals, like I would invite any, any body after, uh, we are done for, for the people that are following and watching right now, um, go on YouTube and, and you can look at dogs trying to invite a statue to play with a stick or a cow fetching a ball or a dolphin in an open ocean doing for the first time, just some, uh, rugby player somewhere in Australia. I think it was. And, and I don't know, they, maybe they were just kind of a little drunk or whatever, but one decided that it's going to throw the ball for the dolphin and the dolphin went and brought it back and then he did it again. And then eventually they just ended up playing a fetch game with a dolphin just out of nowhere. And, um, so this, this kind of shows that, um, you know, play, play is something much more important than, than what we think. Um, when you deprive, like, like kids specifically, if you deprive a kid from touch, that's going to be a really horrible for the development. I mean, that's going to be a, probably the worst thing to do, but maybe the second worst thing, if not as equally horrible, would be to, uh, um, not allow to play. And, um, there, there was, um, that wasn't even a study. That's what happened in back in East European countries and specifically Romania, when they were under the communism, like in the late eighties and early nineties. Um, once the, the regime, you know, the, the got removed and they went to the orphanages and see kids that basically they were, you know, anything from infants to maybe seven, eight, 10 years old cramped. And, um, this, by the way, it's also on YouTube, you know, I would encourage everybody that's interested in play to, to take a look at the, what a person would look like if it doesn't have such interaction. Um, but, um, so it's, uh, you know, they just don't develop right. Like it's so important for development because it's a really interesting interaction. Um, when you play, and the thing with, we, another thing with play is that for whatever reasons humans, we are, we have this unreal gift to come up with infinite numbers of games. Like we can just, whatever, how, how many times I

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can talk this word and how many times you can, and so on. And just like, we can just keep coming up so easy. We don't even need to just think so hard. We can come up with games nonstop for, from now to infinity. That's how we deeply programmed play is in our minds. Um, and what is cool, especially about humans compared to other mammals is that we don't like, like, let's say most of the mammals that play as youngsters, as they grow up, as they start maturing, they, their interest starts to shift in different areas. And even if they play to some level, it's not as when they were young. And there is some reasons for that, that we will kind of touch on that too. But what is interesting where I'm going with this is that dogs and humans, we can play from, from the moment we can, are actually able to play until we're gone, until we die. We, we, we love play. And that's something, you know, among many other things that really connects. And we really look at each other dog and human of like, you like the same things I do. And, and it's not like we grow up, we can, you know, you can play with a 14 year old dog. You just gotta be careful because who knows what they're gonna break walking towards the ball. Right. Um, so it's, uh, you know, so like, um, so many misconceptions about play. And one, big one, even, even in some of the, like the Marine world trainers, like the orcas, dolphins, sea lions, even there, some, um, okay, let me, let me back up here. As I said, it's a biologically program, which means it's basically a primary reinforcer. Play is not something that, uh, you know, you need to reward with food. The play itself is biologically rewarding to you and it's important to your development. Um, and I don't know, some, some, there is like, actually people sell like dog, dog companies, they will sell, um, little tuck toys or balls where you can open it and you can put some treats inside to encourage the dog to play and basically get it rewarded with food. Um, and that's, um, it's pretty ridiculous idea because you just completely diminish the, the value and the importance. And, and eventually later on in training, you also, uh, when you're, when you're trying to maybe withhold rewards or manipulate rewards, if you, if you don't understand what is the condition, what is primary reinforcer, uh, you're going down a rabbit hole. And, and, you know, of course things will work to some level, but they will not work at the, the optimal. Um, so yeah, that, that kind of comes from surprisingly

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the, the marine mammal trainers, they, they were very, and still, I mean, to as much as they can still do training, they would still reinforce the dolphin to go and do some trick with the ball and come back and get a fish. Um, I'm not a dolphin trainer, but, um, I know that you can, you don't have to do that or at least you need to understand that play doesn't need to be, uh, you know, it is a primary reinforcer is what I'm saying. Um, so when you like, like when I'm talking about development and, and all the, uh, I mean, endless benefits really, but I'll, I'll just name few, um, um, before that, I guess I, I should say that I divide, like I've spent like all, all of my training being, being with, uh, pet dogs, with shelter dogs, like, like a sport dogs, everything goes around play. Of course there is always room for other things. Um, sometimes people will say, well, do you ever use food? That's, yes, I do, but it's definitely probably 10% of the time. Uh, if, if, if I, I need to, but, uh, the, the main, the main reward and the main activity really is, uh, play for me. Play, so there is a, like I divide before I go into, you know, my games of chase and catch and possession games, I have to back up and, and there is games and then there is activities. So you can have a, you can kind of bounce a ball or pull on a rope, but there is not real purpose. And that's why I kind of call it activity. So like, if you imagine, uh, what kind of, let's say, basketball, hockey, whatever, but you take the, you take the goal or you take the hoop out of the game. And then unless they decide to come up with a different objective, how to compete or how to compare each other's skill and how to improve, then it stays on a level of some sort of activity that it's still pleasant, of course, but it kind of, you can just kind of bounce the ball and fade away and suck them and, and, and that's that to where games, they have objectives. And anytime you have an objective, you strive to accomplish the objective. So there is a goal goal and that makes you improve. And when you accomplish a goal, what else happens? Your confidence boosts. So, um, let's say a lot of times I will have, you know, when I get presentations or at the school, we will be talking about, well, what about a shy dog? What about the aggressive dog? And it's very important for a shy dog to, you know, it's one of the really easy ways to build confidence because if the dog learns how to be successful and how to be good at something and understand that they are,

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that's an instant boost of confidence. And it's far more easy for the dog to understand than just giving food and telling them that he's a good boy. He's taking the food, but it, it really doesn't do much to grow and, and become somebody as I like to say. Um, so having this games, having objectives makes a very interesting, uh, um, interaction between the dog and the trainer. And of course, like, um, you know, you can play with two balls, you can play with, you can make games super easy to where the objective is, um, there is not, how should I say this? There is not too much cooperation needed. It's like, you get that ball. Well, I have this one. So you don't, you spit this one and you want this one and we can go on like this without really having to agree on anything unless we make a specific point about it. But if we have one ball or one stick or whatever, one thing for me and the dog to interact through play, that means that we need to find some way to cooperate. Because if we don't cooperate, then the game goes down the drain, right? And that's, uh, one of the really, really cool things about games. Um, Um, trainers often will get discouraged, frustrated, even, even upset that themselves or the dog, because the games that they want to play don't come naturally and they're spending times and it doesn't seem to be happening. And they ultimately, they give up and either butcher the game or completely abandon and go into a different style of training. But the beauty of play is not even the play itself as a end result. But the fact that finding a way you and I to agree of what the rules are, what the objective is, is, and what the consequences are for breaking these rules. So these three things, this is like huge. And it takes time. But when you have a dog that understands how to cooperate with you, when you've made a dog feel comfortable trusting you, you made a dog, it takes time to nurture your programs to nurture your programs, it takes time to nurture your programs, it takes time to nurture your programs, it takes time to nurture your programs, it takes time to nurture your programs, it takes time to nurture your programs, it takes time to nurture your programs programs, it takes time to nurture your programs programs, there is rules because okay whatever game anybody can think of there is rules right after the objective being okay you're gonna put the basket or you're gonna whatever you're gonna do to win the game that's gonna be your objective and immediately we have to have rules but you cannot

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do it by running or kicking or pushing or so on and rules of course as we know are meant to be broken especially when you really want to win a game so then there is consequences for breaking the rules and that lead to compliance and that lead to agreement and that lead to some form of discipline and when i say discipline i don't want people to start going way too deep in that but there will be in any game you have an objective you have rules and you have consequences penalties for breaking the rules when all these three things can come together and we still are willing to interact programs programs programs programs programs programs programs programs programs programs programs programs important than having that whatever 10 month 10 week old puppy doing the sit down stand and a spin to the left spin to the right chasing food not even understanding what it's doing because it looks like it's doing something it's just chasing food um so it can be in such an early age that we can accomplish some major major um things of importance about how we interact and and yeah let me have a sip we had someone ask have you seen a dog that just wasn't able to play and i'm gonna piggy piggyback off that say if um a dog in the early stages wasn't exposed to play um how how do you go about teasing the play out of them right so um yeah this is these are the beautiful things about play now there are times when the dog is either so traumatized or it's so old or it's from a certain breed that was bred over and over and over to where they basically really became just just there is um like if you if you don't want to play you really don't have like any any goals in in your life because plays in a way it's competition and it's it's like everything comes from there but having said that there is times where it's not possible but they are very rare um as i said it takes patients you need to reevaluate everything that you're doing you also need to have to make sure that you are enjoying it's not like hey here is the ball or here is the talk you bite it that's not inviting and especially for a dog that doesn't have doesn't see it as fun activity you being so standoffish it's not gonna make him want to play the cool thing about play is that you read you you get feedback and forth of your emotions and and your desire to interact and even if the dog doesn't join immediately if you continue

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for a session two five ten and just bring the dog but play by yourself just you know act like things are fine and you're having fun and as i said re-evaluate what you're doing else um like for example you if you come back from work and you say well now it's six o'clock and it's time for us to train because that's what we do but if you're trying to accomplish something you you need to start not when you want to start you need to look at the dog and you need to decide when the dog wants to do something and that may take a while but when the dog says okay i i kind of feel like have a little spunk what should i do and you say well have an idea let's go and do that and that's kind of how it starts as i said earlier super important is that um um dogs that seem like they don't want to play the trainer instead of starting to feel frustrated the moment you feel frustrated dogs are super keen and they're like okay he doesn't want to play he's actually borderline angry at me for some reason but it's for for whatever reason it's also bouncing a ball in front of me that's not gonna make it happen right so that's what i'm saying you gotta really put like uh some big hollywood production and pretend that you're having the best time of your life in front of them and then put them away and then even when you put them away don't don't try to be very sincere and very affectionate um and take time observe pick the right time pick the time when the dog really wants to do something sometimes we also get so fixated on what we want to play with and then we would buy this toy because this other trainer uses it and it's so effective and then that doesn't work and then we go to the next toy and it's really not about i mean i don't want to bankrupt uh dog companies but it's really not about uh what kind of toy it is um a few years back i was in i was giving some some presentation and and uh uh this people from uh um what was the name pennsylvania the working dog um they have their breeding program they do all sorts of detection and stuff pretty pretty knowledgeable um stuff going on there but uh somebody came with a dead shepherd bred there eight ten months old and they were like well he just does not want to play and he comes and he brings i'm like okay let's let's see what what's going on so he comes and he brings a little bag with all sorts of cute toys i mean everything is there and he tries and the dog is really like pretending that he does not exist like he's not running away or anything but he's like there's

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no way i'm doing anything with you with these things that you're throwing at my face and so we stopped for a moment i i had to kind of gather some history get some questions answered that i have so the dog is sitting down by us and we're talking and he is explaining how you know he he did the right things and the dog never really opened up to play but i asked him well what about like is he just by nature i mean have you ever seen him like play bow and you know it's a 10 month old dog like when you talk about play you're talking about interaction and if he cannot play bow if you for 10 months you have never seen him play bow and invite you to do something or get excited when it sees another dog then we have something pathological and then something uh you know not quite right and he's like yeah no he he would play with some of the dogs and i see him i mean he's you know when the moment we stop interacting with him and trying to push him into let's play he kind of curious looking around and and next thing he is chewing on a stick i mean like it's not even like a like a maybe something a little bigger than a straw but he kind of has it in his pose and it's like chewing on it so we know that that's not for food right it's a stick but he's entertaining himself being bored he's not like at least not making leak sores on his head he decided to chew on a stick so i sat down with him i pet him a little and he's chewing on the stick and then he kind of laid down he liked that i'm petting him he dropped the stick so i got the stick and i tossed it like maybe five feet maybe less than five feet then he kind of looked at me and he when he got his stick back and to make it short we ended up playing with a stick like a stick and the point of the story the obvious point is that you know play doesn't have to happen in the way you want it right away at the time that you want it like there is a lot that you need to understand and give in it's very different than when we train by using aversive when we train by using escape avoidance responses then it's like no you're gonna do because i said so and this is the consequence but to make a dog play you really need to make the dog feel comfortable with you trust in you all other needs have to be met and then little by little play happens but when you can play with a dog you know that you're in a different place in your relationship with a dog from that point on interesting enough the the guy i can't think of well i don't even need to say the name but i cannot even

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think of it he was like try with the try try with this toy it looks like a stick you know he has this uh you know the little rubber bone things that it's not a it's actually really a stick but it's a rubber stick the best myself like oh i have this one i'm like why like what's the urgency right now we barely convince him but it's okay that i can interact with him there is nothing magical about a certain toy and and in fact the whole point of a like one one of the really cool things about games is that you understand and appreciate the interaction and not really you don't get obsessed about the object like think of a football game basketball game whatever you know the referee eventually ends the game they don't just jump at a ball and have a big melee who's gonna take the ball home because it's not about it and anytime you see this and when the sessions are ending you know that there is things that you still need to work on because the dog is not quite understanding that the toy is just the the tool the the object that we end up interacting with it's not something that really has this lifelong um um i need to possess it in its mind because if you do that you end the game there is no more game it's the same thing when you watch two dogs and the one is younger and the other one is bigger and stronger they know how to come down on the level on the young one to play and they will even make them win from time to time because if they just grab the toy or drop the toy and snap with him the other one's not going to want to play anymore saying this is the cool thing about when we talk cooperation um so endless really endless endless benefits including question did the owner eventually learn that he must unlock the play from within how did that go so he he came he came the second day we kind of a co-operative and i ended up there and i ended up there he came the second on the second day i think it was like a three-day seminar he came and um he was so excited he's like i i tried in the hotel room but he didn't want to play but i'm curious to see if he's gonna do now and i'm like okay i mean nothing wrong that he tried because obviously he's been trying for 10 months if he tries one more time it's not gonna break anything if the dog's gonna play with me he's still gonna play with me um but he was so adamant to to try with a toy i'm like okay i mean go ahead nothing wrong you you can try and the dog immediately shifted like just the change of demeanor just amazing um um refused and then i called them he came to me and i grabbed something i don't know like uh just a

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bigger it wasn't a stick it was actually uh um oh see now my english what is called the the peel of the tree the you know that core a pair bear i don't know it's just like part of the tree maybe yeah and i mean just something completely like you wouldn't think you will play with that but that's all we had and so i started playing and he decided he's gonna play and the play of course he wasn't like i throw far away and you bring it back and we do this over and over again that was not the play but i know we could get them it's not that hard ah bark that's the right yeah thank you guys um and and it was more of you know he's chewing i try to steal it then he moves away then i take it then i throw it then you know a little bit of stalking a little just very gentle just interacting and paying attention to each other and so when i say paying attention ultimately you know i mean i advised him that it's you know pretty much what i'm telling you right now you you need to pick up the right times you need to become sincere you cannot force that place not something that you force that's the the art about it because you have to come to an agreement what you have to force is the rules and understand consequences without destroying the cooperation of the interaction so it's a very interesting thing but as i said we are biologically programmed we are born to be capable to do that if we do the right things towards each other and so yeah i i never really heard back and me with my life it's this kind of common i i would go somewhere i would help and unless somebody comes back and he has uh more questions or or i see them somewhere it just kind of goes away so i i'm not sure what happened um but as far as i'm concerned i know that the dog was able to play he wasn't like uh nothing mental nothing pathological he just did not have the like the approach whatever they were doing was the dog just didn't trust and he had a big dislike towards and and this is again like it's it's uh in some way the people that have dogs that play you know the kind of dogs that i'm talking about that like if we are sitting right now here they will grab the ball and they'll be just here and staring at you and just nudging it to you and you eventually will toss it right they will teach somebody that doesn't know what to do they'll teach them how to play fetch with them but then you have the other ones that they need that help and they uh um it's hard for them and this is where the really art comes to where when you teach a dog to play it's easy if you if the dog is stressed in your training

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and he doesn't want to take your food and you're like oh i'm gonna change the treats and well he's not gonna eat he's gonna nothing in life it's three kind of things which i'm very much against hopefully we don't need to talk about that uh but um you know you can make a dog take treats from you you can force him that's you know he has to eventually eat right same thing if we are using escape avoidance using some form of aversive being whatever with the dish with electric whatever it is and we ask him to sit or come we will make him come he will have no choice we play it's a different way of interaction but if you can do that with a dog the dog appreciates you on a different level it's a very very it really is uh on a very different level um another benefits of games like um i will give you another story that just happened like literally three days ago but the the um so okay oh so the the um um i i sold a dog to to somebody and she's about 14 months old and they're doing protection sports and the person went to few schools i mean he's very knowledgeable uh um you know but he he wanted me to take a look and evaluate the dog and i'm like okay well let's do what what exactly what are there are there any concerns or what do you want to do and he's like well i'm thinking to switch from ring sports to igp or i don't know i'm like well why do you want to do that so we went back and forth for a little bit eventually um i thought that i'm gonna be doing some protection and test the dog and see what what the dog is about but he decided that i should look at how they interact and how they play and of course that's what we did because i mean obviously that's what you need to do so they come here in this this is where i am right now that's kind of my training room and she walks in and she's full of life i mean just full of herself just bouncing like a cricket back and forth just like i'm like okay that's gonna look really cool and he gets one toy out she kind of latches on the toy for a second but then she lets go then another toy comes out then i start to see that it's what i call activity how i was talking earlier like there is just no like it's just everything it's just energy that is constantly spilling all over the place but there is no no objective there is no game so nothing really goes anywhere and i had to ask them how of course the part part part of the solutions not just out of curiosity part of the solution is like what what has been done in the past why do you think that's happening was it like this from the get-go or what

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did the more knowledgeable trainer advised you and so on so the the in a nutshell yes it was she was always like this from a puppy always interested in something else um then the some of the really influential big names in the dog community would they would in advice to um trying to find what the dog wants to do and kind of build from there what is the dog favorite toy or what is the dog favorite style of interaction so they can build on that and eventually guide it somewhere which is in in a lot of cases this could be a good solution um and what i ended up doing is just really let let her let her show me what she wanted to do because i tried to give her the one toy she beat it then she beat the handle then she let go of it dropped it on the ground started to look at what else there is and of course i have like seven bite suits and four racks of bite sleeves and i don't know i mean just a dog training room so there is a lot of stuff that she is interested in so i'm like just let her let her free and now she has all the choices whatever she wanted to do but i want to see what she wants to do right so she goes she grabs something i'm like okay let's play with that she comes she grabs it and almost instantly somewhere i'm done with that and then starts searching something else and something else um and you know every once in a while dog trainers for whatever reason love to talk about dopamine but it's quite confusing and i don't want to really get into a big what happens in your brain and the chemicals how they work lecture here but uh she was a very prime example of uh what dopamine really is like a dopamine junkie because dopamine has a very good things i mean without that we we will not survive you we obviously need it but it's uh it's not like the the reward chemical that you search pleasure or whatever you want to call it it's it's basically uh you you are always chasing something in the future you're never happy here and now it's like let's say i i go and i win some championship and maybe an hour later i'm like okay what what now um and as i said there is the benefits but there is a lot a lot of bad stuff about it because you you just you cannot stay focused you cannot pay attention and this is what i really wanted to mention this is why i ended up talking about that dog because what games teach you even from a little puppy which is super important when you have a a working dog when you're gonna interact like in training is that it reinforces or it teaches and improves the dog to the dog to be able to pay attention to stay focused on the same task for a very long time

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and some can do it very easy and some struggle with it but it's not even only mental there is the physical endurance and mental endurance and we know that the moment you've reached physical fatigue of course your brain starts to be more busy how to manage that how to budget that deficit of okay your fatigue versus focusing on the game so the moment you physically cannot that's why you you're like not interested anymore to play so mental and physical endurance are super important and this is one of the best ways to accomplish it is through playing not not a treadmill not bike running um because treadmill and bike running don't focus on uh the mental endurance right um so there's like really um so so so so many benefits of it um another ones are of course even you know i mean depending who you talk to even now i still hear oh you can should never ever if you're some shelter trainers or or some pet trainers like play tug with your dog he should never be biting things and whatever um but that's how you establish that's like the the smartest and the smoothest way to establish rank to establish some authority um it's through play it's because when the rules are broken then there is consequences then you have to learn how to accept the penalty and how to comply to the rules and in order for me to be able to reinforce all that but still maintain the cooperation and the health interaction that means that i'm going to create authority that you're going to have to follow but we're still best of friends and that goes long way um when you're training for the competitions on a daily basis um how do you know when to like cap a session or how do you keep your own like mental endurance to make sure that you know you're keeping the dog accountable or uh you're not over exerting the dog and right the dog gets sloppy let's say yeah so um i mean there's different depending on the dog you you have to strategize and normally they're a little bit different variations um but we know we know when you when we work when fatigue comes in and one of the good analogies that normally i talk about is when you have um um like let's say let's say you go to the gym and you're going to work out and you want to kind of get healthy stronger whatever your goal is and you hire a trainer because if you don't hire a trainer you never are able to push yourself in that way and then and so on um and what a fitness trainer normally will do is they will kind of tell you okay do seven of this or five or whatever and kind of watch you and pretty much don't care

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until they see that you're reaching that moment of fatigue and then it's like okay now we start to train now you're going to make three more reps or five more reps or whatever that is but this is when now the muscle and the body and the brain everything needs to get this urgency and produce and and get fit and and improve and so the same concept in a way i implement when i train i i would train i would watch i would the moment i start to see being physical being mental fatigue i i also kind of give breaks like uh just mental breaks within the session i don't i'm not that big on short training sessions i i like to have a long session but there are breaks to where we can actually really just have a sip of water or take 20 seconds to catch breath and then hear it again um but towards that moment when i know that no break can recover anymore then i would stop asking anything like like the actual work's gonna stop because i know now if i ask him to heal he will do it but it's not gonna be with that precision with that intensity with that joy and i don't want to give him the idea that i will be okay with him not giving me exactly what i need right or even if i say well you're not giving me i'm gonna force it when you force it it's not gonna look right but so that's kind of the point of the training session when i would say okay i'm not gonna ask you any more behaviors but we're gonna go into a little more play and of course for people that are gonna watch that i'm not suggesting that you overwork dogs because especially dogs that are you know working breeds like you can literally overheat and kill them by throwing ball because they would not know how to stop so you know you have to be very reasonable but you certainly can work on building uh that mental and physical endurance which is super important without that um you know you you're staying in this plateau just like as again as i say if you're going to the gym and every time you go you do whatever it is five times you you never really stimulate that body to improve right so that that's another big thing that i would do when i play we have a bunch of questions about um well a bunch of people that are just getting into igp um do you have any uh any tips for uh for people starting um yeah like the really the best tip that i can give anyone is focus on play before anything else um it's almost counterintuitive especially when you see all this it's it's just such a norm to take some food and do all these things and make the puppy follow food or the old dog

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you can do that at any point in time and then you know you can take a 14 year old dog and he will do just as a eight week old puppy but for the development on a young puppy play cooperation rules consequences attention span physical mental endurance all those things are are far more important to me so um yeah i have like my the dog well dog a puppy that i have right now um he's uh what is he maybe eight months old it's gonna sound funny he doesn't know how to down on command yet he knows what he knows out because out is important and the way we learn to out is super important so we don't have any animosity against each other but we can play forever we want to play forever no matter what time of the day or night it is and i have to stop him because he will not stop then i taught him healing probably in a week that looks incredible right now like you can just go and go and go and go and go and go and go and go and there is no like i'm not holding toy or not making spin there is nothing it just i have built that enough of motivation and sense of cooperation and a feeling of what the objective is is that just pushes through it just a matter of how to show it and so he knows out he has a beautiful healing i just started to teach him sit like a few days ago and but everything is going to start to come extremely fast and the reason it's going to come extremely fast is again i have cooperation and i he has motivation he's kind of he's kind of like a like a druggy he's injected he he's he's done his mind like he's like please let's play all it takes now is to say well we're gonna play if you do that little thing and he's like of course and so yeah um don't underestimate play that that's like my biggest advice um for anybody and it doesn't need to be igp anything that you do with dogs even if you do shelters if you do service whatever it is play by far is the the most important thing in my in my world no question what is your favorite thing to teach oh so i mean i'm very competitive and i'm very interested in in i always kind of experiment i always you know it's kind of having that beginner's mind you always and it's not even like i like the little challenges it's not a specific the things that i know how to teach really well they're you know i'm going through the motions and it's not to say that i don't enjoy it but there is yeah we're gonna heal and you're gonna have beautiful attention and you're gonna be wagging your tail and you're gonna come really far like these are the things that when you have the right dog

1:02:34

and the right selection and you know how to make it it's just a matter of time but what is really interesting to me is the little challenges that come along the way that's what keeps me motivated to even think of well that's not quite well working with you it does it let's think what else can we do and come to some agreement and see well can it last is it gonna so it's uh it's actually the it can be in any area of dog training but it's this little challenges that's what makes me really look forward to training um but if you really really have to push it um obedience is um by far the the most important again it's because it's the interaction like if you have if you have the right obedience with a dog that means that you you have good communication and you can teach them anything else that possibly genetically that dog is capable of and if your obedience sucks then you're you can do other things but you're gonna um 100 percent rely on on the dog's raw genetics because you suck in interacting and teaching and obedience i guess it's the you know it's the mother of of everything when it comes to dog training from breezy bear how soon do you introduce consequences to a young dog learning the games it's a good question so that's um and by the way like i mean almost everything that we talk about right now it's in in the videos uh chase and catch and possession game so anybody that's wants to go a little bit deeper into it that that would be a next thing to do um so consequences penalties punishment whatever we want to say it they dogs don't really need a certain age to learn that um again i don't want to get too crazy like this is something we talk when like in at class at my school um you know there is it's pleasant and unpleasant when it comes down to the the most fundamental principle on on earth it's like you avoid something unpleasant you approach something pleasant and again we are programmed this is like a like if we don't have that it doesn't life you don't exist um and and so what happens you know even even puppies that cannot walk they they're already responding as much as they can in this way the probably the very first time that they start to kind of be a little bit more uh self-conscious and and actually able to do something about it able to avoid something unpleasant is in the litter box with mom you know if mom says you you're done eating and you're just three weeks and you're barely stumbling and she tells you no don't done and you learn how to go away so so consequences is not something that it's a

1:06:18

you know human construct it's not we we don't need to teach them just like nobody needs to teach you if you i mean yes i can tell you don't put your hand on the hot stove but ultimately you will not pay not listen to me and you ultimately you will eventually touch it and hopefully it wasn't that hot and and you learn the lesson um so bottom line there is no certain age where consequences are it's not like uh they are biologically ready to understand consequences if you make sense if it's all contingent if you know it's a it could be a different story if for example i walk into my training building and i decide to sit on a chair and i get electric shock i reach for my glass and i get electric shock but then i reach again but this time i don't then i touch this and just randomly i experience bad stuff that doesn't make sense then i would not want to come in that room anymore and whomever else is in that room that i may think that has something to do with it of course i will dislike them but if it's only the glass or if it's something that makes sense then then that's that's normal that's how it should be you know that's kind of how you know uh electricians that work on those high voltage poles you know they don't go to work shitless like i'm gonna die today they they know what they need to do to stay safe and make big money and and it's there is no there is no uh it's not an age is not a factor um punishment is a very interesting topic but it's not obviously you know it's a much much deeper topic but in short um it's a much deeper topic but in short um it's a any any time really as long as you make sense and as long as you you know um there is there is a big difference between experience brief pain brief unpleasantness or suffering and if you know like like once you start thinking this way you start to you know you you have to make sure that you respect the animal and and you don't do stupid thing just because somebody else does it um but for a normal healthy person we are prepared to think correctly for those kind of things there is of course a lot of clutter that you know we watch all the time and and including all the social sciences you know um i had this really cool podcast i think was a couple of months ago with um these two brilliant people um um and and and they they they talked quite a bit about this it's just kind of how genetically what what we do and what we don't and and how what how to respect what the dog offers and what it comes with you know so yeah um earlier we talked a little bit about um how you how as humans we can project our energy onto our dogs

1:10:05

um when you are going to a play session and say you're not in that that mood is there any secret sauce that the ivan secret sauce that you have to turn on the magic of play to get in the mood to uh have a great session very good question yeah that's uh this is this is that kind of depends how good of an actor you are you know that's why some people win the oscars and some don't and if you don't think you can win an oscar then if you don't if you're not in the right mood don't do it then just step out leave it alone um leave it alone go do something else jump around sing bounce recover get to uh you you it's a really big deal you have to have good energy you have to feel you know it's almost like a cliche but it's not cliche if i really talk to you deep about it you understand that this is so so so deep um you you don't mess around with that going back to my dog with the tracking i think that was part of um the the big puzzle um he he didn't really he just like any dog he keys and he's very connected and he knows if how if i am in a good place or or not in my head then of course when he is with me he's like well maybe maybe it's my fault or something and i'm stressing because look at you and so yeah if you if you're not capable to act and win an oscar then just leave it alone that was um um again with one of my friends at the competition because i you know as i said i stayed like four weeks there up north and was hanging out with some of my friends there in new jersey and he was so good at it like so good at it like there was a time where we will set up we will go to like a little stadium and make the whole setup and everything but there was some reason and i can't remember but he was not in the right mood and he was like i'm not gonna do it then i'm like man i i need to pay more attention i need to be more careful like this instead of trying to it's not even worth putting up you know the the being the best actor like if you if you if you can go away and recover and feeling good it's so so important like i cannot like i literally can talk to you about a week on on how emotions and feelings and affect and and and stuff like that works how how the brain perceives things because it's uh even even if i get some stomach upset what i i ate something wrong and and i don't feel good when i don't feel good my face my body everything just my brain starts to work to try to manage that but then i'm looking at you and i'm talking to you and we have to get excited to do something and you're looking at me and you're like no you're dude

1:13:38

you're not excited about it but it's not that i'm not excited about it i just don't feel good you're not excited about it but i'm not excited to be in the room and of course it all leads to the next thing and the next thing and and this is like dogs can be so much more forgiving when you're in your happy place so to speak and you want to do it's like hey let's go let's have fun that that's that's when training is beautiful and that's when it's enjoyable anyway thank you for that Yeah. On that note, I would like to end this, but can you, I know there's a lot of people asking you about, I don't know how much time you have, but I know you have so many videos on like teaching the OWL and like your podcast, what do you recommend people go and watch and to follow? Man, so like I am super selective on my podcasts who I invite to talk to. There was two that I kind of got stuck and I'm sure most of you have listened to those two, unfortunately, because they have so many hits and it's about electric color and low level conditioning and stuff, which just ended up being a pointless discussions. But if anybody that's interested and everything that I'm talking about, it's of interest, I strongly would suggest to listen to really all of the other podcasts that I have. As far as videos on play, it's the, for sure, the chase and catch, the possession game and teaching the OWL. The OWL is important because you cannot, you know, like when, when I want something and you want something and we were trying to play, but we end up in a fight, how to separate from that, things don't go well. So these are the, probably the three video, like the cornerstone, if you want to call it that way of, of my training, chase and catch possession games and the OWL. And there is no, really no particular order of anything. Yeah. Awesome. Well, they have been, I, I got them in January and it's been a game changer for Rika. How old, how old is she now? Rika is now a year and three months. Okay. Yeah. Growing, growing fast. Growing fast. Yeah. Her body's filling out and it's, yeah, she's like, she's doing good. So cool. Very cool. Yeah. Ivan, thank you so much. Always a pleasure. And I want, I'll go ahead and listen to your podcast. You will love them. I guarantee you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Have a good night. See you.

0:01

hi guys thank you so much for joining us hi guys thank you so much for joining us tonight today we have the legendary mr tonight today we have the legendary mr tonight today we have the legendary mr ivan balabanov joining us ivan balabanov joining us ivan balabanov joining us so ivan is a two-time world champion so ivan is a two-time world champion so ivan is a two-time world champion he's a 14-time national champion he's a 14-time national champion he's a 14-time national champion if this man is competing he is winning if this man is competing he is winning if this man is competing he is winning and i do not want to compete alongside and i do not want to compete alongside and i do not want to compete alongside him him him so without further ado we're going to so without further ado we're going to so without further ado we're going to invite ivan in and today we're going to invite ivan in and today we're going to invite ivan in and today we're going to talk about the power of play talk about the power of play talk about the power of play possession games chase and catch and possession games chase and catch and possession games chase and catch and some some some tips for all you first time igp people tips for all you first time igp people tips for all you first time igp people let's get mr hey hi how are you i'm good how are you hey hi how are you i'm good how are you cool it always takes me a little moment cool it always takes me a little moment cool it always takes me a little moment to figure it out how to figure it out how to figure it out how how to do this but here we are here we how to do this but here we are here we how to do this but here we are here we are worth the wait are worth the wait are worth the wait how's it going oh wow that's uh how's it going oh wow that's uh how's it going oh wow that's uh that's a crazy question right now that's a crazy question right now that's a crazy question right now so yeah no thanks are things been really so yeah no thanks are things been really so yeah no thanks are things been really good um good um good um i just got back from a competition that i just got back from a competition that i just got back from a competition that was really nerve-wracking was really nerve-wracking was really nerve-wracking and tomorrow not tomorrow but and tomorrow not tomorrow but and tomorrow not tomorrow but friday saturday sunday i have um the friday saturday sunday i have um the friday saturday sunday i have um the students from my class are coming for students from my class are coming for students from my class are coming for graduation and certification this

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graduation and certification this graduation and certification this weekend so they're gonna just weekend so they're gonna just weekend so they're gonna just arrive from all over the place and arrive from all over the place and arrive from all over the place and we have three days of we have three days of we have three days of yeah it's kind of fun times but it's yeah it's kind of fun times but it's yeah it's kind of fun times but it's also busy busy times that also busy busy times that also busy busy times that um you know everybody's been studying um you know everybody's been studying um you know everybody's been studying and and and it's uh final final it's uh final final it's uh final final days of you know before they get days of you know before they get days of you know before they get certified hopefully everything goes well certified hopefully everything goes well certified hopefully everything goes well so i'm so i'm so i'm just doing a lot of reviewing the just doing a lot of reviewing the just doing a lot of reviewing the testing testing testing and changing some things making it more and changing some things making it more and changing some things making it more interesting interesting interesting not necessarily more difficult but yeah not necessarily more difficult but yeah not necessarily more difficult but yeah i'm kind of in a i'm kind of in a i'm kind of in a teacher's mode right now awesome teacher's mode right now awesome teacher's mode right now awesome how you've been all good uh how you've been all good uh how you've been all good uh happy that it's summer and pandemic is happy that it's summer and pandemic is happy that it's summer and pandemic is coming to a close and coming to a close and coming to a close and normal normal living so yeah normal normal living so yeah normal normal living so yeah yeah yeah so i want to yeah yeah so i want to yeah yeah so i want to so i the recent photo that you shared so i the recent photo that you shared so i the recent photo that you shared you with a bunch of trophies and a you with a bunch of trophies and a you with a bunch of trophies and a malinois classic malinois classic malinois classic ivan what was that yeah so that was really the that was yeah so that was really the that was that competition that competition that competition it was um i think it was like a couple it was um i think it was like a couple it was um i think it was like a couple of weeks ago of weeks ago of weeks ago and we placed second and we placed second and we placed second uh which i'm super super happy sometimes uh which i'm super super happy sometimes

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uh which i'm super super happy sometimes people people people will be like well what happened why will be like well what happened why will be like well what happened why second it's like uh second it's like uh second it's like uh you know but that that would be typical you know but that that would be typical you know but that that would be typical for people that don't understand for people that don't understand for people that don't understand how competition go it's not always so how competition go it's not always so how competition go it's not always so easy easy easy but it was a tough very very but it was a tough very very but it was a tough very very um i had last year two big competitions um i had last year two big competitions um i had last year two big competitions and and and we couldn't pass tracking for whatever we couldn't pass tracking for whatever we couldn't pass tracking for whatever reason it was like this big reason it was like this big reason it was like this big mystery of you know like in training mystery of you know like in training mystery of you know like in training everything's gonna be just everything's gonna be just everything's gonna be just perfect he loves tracking and then perfect he loves tracking and then perfect he loves tracking and then a two national championships he just was a two national championships he just was a two national championships he just was like like like really weirded out about it really weirded out about it really weirded out about it so that was in my head and i went so that was in my head and i went so that was in my head and i went like four weeks ahead of time to like four weeks ahead of time to like four weeks ahead of time to um i was at in pennsylvania um i was at in pennsylvania um i was at in pennsylvania just to do tracking and kind of play just to do tracking and kind of play just to do tracking and kind of play like the whole like the whole like the whole like the whole trial scenario to where like the whole trial scenario to where like the whole trial scenario to where somebody else will lay the trucks and i somebody else will lay the trucks and i somebody else will lay the trucks and i will have few people with me will have few people with me will have few people with me one pretending to be a judge and one pretending to be a judge and one pretending to be a judge and and all this just to try to recreate it and all this just to try to recreate it and all this just to try to recreate it as much as possible as much as possible as much as possible and it was crazy because i still didn't and it was crazy because i still didn't

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and it was crazy because i still didn't know know know what's gonna happen so what's gonna happen so what's gonna happen so yeah i focused all of my time in yeah i focused all of my time in yeah i focused all of my time in tracking because tracking because tracking because in my head nothing else really was that in my head nothing else really was that in my head nothing else really was that important like i i just needed to important like i i just needed to important like i i just needed to know if that's where i stay with this know if that's where i stay with this know if that's where i stay with this because because because as i said like the absolute mystery as i said like the absolute mystery as i said like the absolute mystery of couldn't really figure it out what's of couldn't really figure it out what's of couldn't really figure it out what's going on in his head and why going on in his head and why going on in his head and why because anytime we will be in training because anytime we will be in training because anytime we will be in training he he he just makes like beautiful trucks just makes like beautiful trucks just makes like beautiful trucks completely enjoying them and then completely enjoying them and then completely enjoying them and then these two times he would go to the these two times he would go to the these two times he would go to the beginning of the truck and be like beginning of the truck and be like beginning of the truck and be like i can do it i'm like what the hell i can do it i'm like what the hell i can do it i'm like what the hell just mind-boggling um but just mind-boggling um but just mind-boggling um but yeah we got the excellent scoring yeah we got the excellent scoring yeah we got the excellent scoring tracking which was tracking which was tracking which was amazing and i feel really good about it amazing and i feel really good about it amazing and i feel really good about it but it's still but it's still but it's still you know it's still in my head i still you know it's still in my head i still you know it's still in my head i still don't know we have a big don't know we have a big don't know we have a big competition this the one that i was at competition this the one that i was at competition this the one that i was at that was the all breed competition and that was the all breed competition and that was the all breed competition and now we have now we have now we have the only belgian shepherd competitions the only belgian shepherd competitions the only belgian shepherd competitions coming coming coming and it's going to be back in that same

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and it's going to be back in that same and it's going to be back in that same area and it's in october area and it's in october area and it's in october and i'm trying to think that we and i'm trying to think that we and i'm trying to think that we you know whatever that little thing in you know whatever that little thing in you know whatever that little thing in his head was we kind of passed that but his head was we kind of passed that but his head was we kind of passed that but um who knows um who knows um who knows and yeah it's interesting competitions and yeah it's interesting competitions and yeah it's interesting competitions are always are always are always you know when you when you're not in the you know when you when you're not in the you know when you when you're not in the competition competition competition you always look into scores and you always look into scores and you always look into scores and maybe watch the life of the day how how things are going but of the day how how things are going but um there is so much going on um there is so much going on um there is so much going on to prepare and to make sure that you to prepare and to make sure that you to prepare and to make sure that you have this have this have this five or ten minutes on the field that five or ten minutes on the field that five or ten minutes on the field that everything has to everything has to everything has to just come the way you want it to come just come the way you want it to come just come the way you want it to come and it's not easy and dogs get and it's not easy and dogs get and it's not easy and dogs get injured um so i had a injured um so i had a injured um so i had a a week right before the competition a week right before the competition a week right before the competition i'm playing ball of course which we're i'm playing ball of course which we're i'm playing ball of course which we're going to talk about going to talk about going to talk about but so we are at the tracking fields and but so we are at the tracking fields and but so we are at the tracking fields and we are playing we are playing we are playing and he and he and he raining whatever he just kind of gets raining whatever he just kind of gets raining whatever he just kind of gets twisted a little bit so his shoulder twisted a little bit so his shoulder twisted a little bit so his shoulder he starts limping so i had to give him a he starts limping so i had to give him a he starts limping so i had to give him a break break break um like the whole week before the trial um like the whole week before the trial

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um like the whole week before the trial i couldn't do obedience or protection i couldn't do obedience or protection i couldn't do obedience or protection i could but there was like the risk of i could but there was like the risk of i could but there was like the risk of okay i can okay i can okay i can try to get more ready but then he's try to get more ready but then he's try to get more ready but then he's gonna be limping and maybe i cannot even gonna be limping and maybe i cannot even gonna be limping and maybe i cannot even compete compete compete all together so i all together so i all together so i i know where my training is there so i i know where my training is there so i i know where my training is there so i was like you know was like you know was like you know he can he can rest we all i need is he can he can rest we all i need is he can he can rest we all i need is uh nice scoring tracking and uh nice scoring tracking and uh nice scoring tracking and yeah we paid a little price for that it yeah we paid a little price for that it yeah we paid a little price for that it was super hard was like 92 degrees or was super hard was like 92 degrees or was super hard was like 92 degrees or something when we were on the field and something when we were on the field and something when we were on the field and he he he i was just kind of trying to go through i was just kind of trying to go through i was just kind of trying to go through the whole the whole the whole routine of course routine of course routine of course typically in training i have a certain typically in training i have a certain typically in training i have a certain things that i would things that i would things that i would do right before like the last three days do right before like the last three days do right before like the last three days like it's this like it's this like it's this really important kind of preparation and really important kind of preparation and really important kind of preparation and once that's skipped once that's skipped once that's skipped you got to go to plan b and plan c which you got to go to plan b and plan c which you got to go to plan b and plan c which that's just that's just that's just the beauty of competition that's kind of the beauty of competition that's kind of the beauty of competition that's kind of why we do it i guess because there is why we do it i guess because there is why we do it i guess because there is it never goes exactly how you want it to it never goes exactly how you want it to it never goes exactly how you want it to be planned be planned be planned no matter how well you plan it um

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no matter how well you plan it um no matter how well you plan it um so yeah he he ended up going over the so yeah he he ended up going over the so yeah he he ended up going over the jump and on the way back he jump and on the way back he jump and on the way back he touched it pretty hard and touched it pretty hard and touched it pretty hard and i want to thank partially was me i want to thank partially was me i want to thank partially was me throwing that dumbbell throwing that dumbbell throwing that dumbbell a little bit too short but also him not a little bit too short but also him not a little bit too short but also him not having that having that having that um spring that he normally does because um spring that he normally does because um spring that he normally does because of the shoulder of the shoulder of the shoulder so that was costly and then so that was costly and then so that was costly and then in protection he you know like in in protection he you know like in in protection he you know like in igp when they bark in the blind then you igp when they bark in the blind then you igp when they bark in the blind then you have to call them where the judge gives have to call them where the judge gives have to call them where the judge gives you son you have to call him and they you son you have to call him and they you son you have to call him and they come into a heal position come into a heal position come into a heal position so he was so happy that he's finally so he was so happy that he's finally so he was so happy that he's finally doing protection because of that doing protection because of that doing protection because of that little bit of a break and i call him to little bit of a break and i call him to little bit of a break and i call him to come in a basic position and he comes on come in a basic position and he comes on come in a basic position and he comes on the other side of me the other side of me the other side of me in a perfect basic position but in a perfect basic position but in a perfect basic position but completely unaware that something is completely unaware that something is completely unaware that something is wrong wrong wrong and that's i mean it's a funny thing now and that's i mean it's a funny thing now and that's i mean it's a funny thing now when you look back when you look back when you look back but it's another kind of costly mistake but it's another kind of costly mistake but it's another kind of costly mistake so so so yeah competitions it's it's so now we yeah competitions it's it's so now we yeah competitions it's it's so now we have a lot to do for the next one

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have a lot to do for the next one have a lot to do for the next one um but yeah that's kind of behind now um but yeah that's kind of behind now um but yeah that's kind of behind now now i'm really just now i'm really just now i'm really just trying to focus on on the school trying to focus on on the school trying to focus on on the school and the people that's gonna come and and the people that's gonna come and and the people that's gonna come and going over all the tests and stuff like going over all the tests and stuff like going over all the tests and stuff like that but we will be talking about play i'm but we will be talking about play i'm guessing guessing guessing yes so a transition into the power of yes so a transition into the power of yes so a transition into the power of play play play and um the importance of play when it and um the importance of play when it and um the importance of play when it comes to establishing a good comes to establishing a good comes to establishing a good relationship and building a bond with relationship and building a bond with relationship and building a bond with your dog your dog your dog yeah um so plays a it's a very so plays a it's a very i can really talk a lot i can really talk a lot i can really talk a lot about it and now i'm just gonna kind of about it and now i'm just gonna kind of about it and now i'm just gonna kind of start talking and see where we go with start talking and see where we go with start talking and see where we go with that and that and that and probably bounce back and forth in probably bounce back and forth in probably bounce back and forth in different areas um different areas um different areas um play is uh like like it's play is uh like like it's play is uh like like it's it used to be even like 10 15 years ago it used to be even like 10 15 years ago it used to be even like 10 15 years ago that even scientists didn't pay that even scientists didn't pay that even scientists didn't pay attention didn't attention didn't attention didn't consider play as important as it consider play as important as it consider play as important as it actually actually actually is to to is to to is to to to humans and and dogs as i'm gonna to humans and and dogs as i'm gonna to humans and and dogs as i'm gonna explain in a little bit um it's always explain in a little bit um it's always explain in a little bit um it's always used to be to where plays this thing used to be to where plays this thing used to be to where plays this thing that we do in our spare time that we do in our spare time that we do in our spare time it wasn't uh anything of big importance

10:27

it wasn't uh anything of big importance it wasn't uh anything of big importance like like like this okay we have nothing to do let's this okay we have nothing to do let's this okay we have nothing to do let's have some fun let's do some play have some fun let's do some play have some fun let's do some play um but there is a um but there is a um but there is a a lot of a lot of studies a lot of stuff a lot of a lot of studies a lot of stuff a lot of a lot of studies a lot of stuff that went that went that went on and now we know on and now we know on and now we know that all mammals especially that all mammals especially that all mammals especially like anything from a little rodent to a like anything from a little rodent to a like anything from a little rodent to a dog and a dog and a dog and a horse and humans of course horse and humans of course horse and humans of course we are actually biologically we are actually biologically we are actually biologically programmed to play like we don't programmed to play like we don't programmed to play like we don't we have a need to do that it's not like we have a need to do that it's not like we have a need to do that it's not like something that we need to something that we need to something that we need to uh um somebody needs to teach us uh um somebody needs to teach us uh um somebody needs to teach us like we can learn how to play games or like we can learn how to play games or like we can learn how to play games or how to do whatever activities but the how to do whatever activities but the how to do whatever activities but the desire desire desire and uh to interact through place it's and uh to interact through place it's and uh to interact through place it's you know we're it's in our dna if you you know we're it's in our dna if you you know we're it's in our dna if you want to put it that way want to put it that way want to put it that way and all mammals like and all mammals like and all mammals like i would invite any anybody i would invite any anybody i would invite any anybody after we're done for for the people that after we're done for for the people that after we're done for for the people that are following and watching right now are following and watching right now are following and watching right now um go on youtube and and you can um go on youtube and and you can um go on youtube and and you can look at dogs trying to invite look at dogs trying to invite look at dogs trying to invite a statue to play with a stick or a statue to play with a stick or a statue to play with a stick or a cow fetching a ball or a dolphin a cow fetching a ball or a dolphin

11:53

a cow fetching a ball or a dolphin in an open ocean doing for a first time in an open ocean doing for a first time in an open ocean doing for a first time just some just some just some rugby players somewhere in australia i rugby players somewhere in australia i rugby players somewhere in australia i think it was and think it was and think it was and and i don't know maybe they were just and i don't know maybe they were just and i don't know maybe they were just kind of little drunk or whatever one kind of little drunk or whatever one kind of little drunk or whatever one decided that he's gonna throw the ball decided that he's gonna throw the ball decided that he's gonna throw the ball for the dolphin and the dolphin went and for the dolphin and the dolphin went and for the dolphin and the dolphin went and brought it back and then he did it again brought it back and then he did it again brought it back and then he did it again and then eventually they just ended up and then eventually they just ended up and then eventually they just ended up playing a fetch game with a dolphin playing a fetch game with a dolphin playing a fetch game with a dolphin just out of nowhere and just out of nowhere and just out of nowhere and um so this this kind of shows that um so this this kind of shows that um so this this kind of shows that know play play is something much more know play play is something much more know play play is something much more important important important than what we think um than what we think um than what we think um when you deprive when you deprive when you deprive like like kids specifically if you like like kids specifically if you like like kids specifically if you deprive deprive deprive a kid from touch that's going to be a a kid from touch that's going to be a a kid from touch that's going to be a really really really horrible for the development i mean horrible for the development i mean horrible for the development i mean that's going to be a that's going to be a that's going to be a probably the worst thing to do but maybe probably the worst thing to do but maybe probably the worst thing to do but maybe the second worst thing the second worst thing the second worst thing if not as equally horrible would be to if not as equally horrible would be to if not as equally horrible would be to uh um not allow to play uh um not allow to play uh um not allow to play and um there was uh that wasn't even a and um there was uh that wasn't even a and um there was uh that wasn't even a study that's what happened in study that's what happened in

13:04

study that's what happened in back in east european countries and back in east european countries and back in east european countries and specifically romania when they were specifically romania when they were specifically romania when they were under the under the under the communism like in the late 80s communism like in the late 80s communism like in the late 80s and early 90s once the and early 90s once the and early 90s once the regime you know the got removed and they went to the got removed and they went to the orphanages and see orphanages and see orphanages and see kids that basically they were you know kids that basically they were you know kids that basically they were you know anything from anything from anything from infants to maybe seven eight ten years infants to maybe seven eight ten years infants to maybe seven eight ten years old old old cramped and did this by the way it's cramped and did this by the way it's cramped and did this by the way it's also on youtube also on youtube also on youtube you know i i would encourage everybody you know i i would encourage everybody you know i i would encourage everybody that's interested in play to that's interested in play to that's interested in play to to take a look at the what to take a look at the what to take a look at the what a person would look like if he doesn't a person would look like if he doesn't a person would look like if he doesn't have such interaction have such interaction have such interaction um but um so it's a um but um so it's a um but um so it's a you know they just don't develop right you know they just don't develop right you know they just don't develop right like it's so important for development like it's so important for development like it's so important for development because it's a really interesting because it's a really interesting because it's a really interesting interaction interaction interaction um when you play and the thing with another thing with and the thing with another thing with play is that play is that play is that for whatever reasons humans for whatever reasons humans for whatever reasons humans we are we have this unreal we are we have this unreal we are we have this unreal gift to come up with infinite numbers of gift to come up with infinite numbers of gift to come up with infinite numbers of games games games like we can just whatever how how many like we can just whatever how how many like we can just whatever how how many times i can toss this work times i can toss this work times i can toss this work and how many times you can and so on and and how many times you can and so on and

14:34

and how many times you can and so on and just like just like just like we can just keep coming up so easy we we can just keep coming up so easy we we can just keep coming up so easy we don't even need to don't even need to don't even need to just think so hard we can just think so hard we can just think so hard we can come up with games non-stop for from now come up with games non-stop for from now come up with games non-stop for from now to to to infinity that's how we deeply infinity that's how we deeply infinity that's how we deeply programmed play is in our minds programmed play is in our minds programmed play is in our minds um and what is cool um and what is cool um and what is cool especially about humans compared to especially about humans compared to especially about humans compared to other mammals is that other mammals is that other mammals is that we don't like like let's say we don't like like let's say we don't like like let's say most of the mammals that play as most of the mammals that play as most of the mammals that play as youngsters as they grow up as they start youngsters as they grow up as they start youngsters as they grow up as they start maturing they maturing they maturing they their interest starts to shift in their interest starts to shift in their interest starts to shift in different areas and even if they play different areas and even if they play different areas and even if they play to some level it's not as when they were to some level it's not as when they were to some level it's not as when they were young young young and there is some reasons for that that and there is some reasons for that that and there is some reasons for that that we will we will we will kind of touch on that too but what is kind of touch on that too but what is kind of touch on that too but what is interesting what i'm going with is interesting what i'm going with is interesting what i'm going with is is that dogs is that dogs is that dogs and humans we can play and humans we can play and humans we can play from from the moment we can are actually from from the moment we can are actually from from the moment we can are actually able to play until we are gone able to play until we are gone able to play until we are gone until we die we we love play until we die we we love play until we die we we love play and that's something you know among and that's something you know among and that's something you know among many other things that really connects many other things that really connects many other things that really connects and we really look at each other dog and and we really look at each other dog and

15:58

and we really look at each other dog and human of like human of like human of like you like the same things i do and and you like the same things i do and and you like the same things i do and and it's not like it's not like it's not like we grow up we can you know you can play we grow up we can you know you can play we grow up we can you know you can play with a 14 year old dog you just got to with a 14 year old dog you just got to with a 14 year old dog you just got to be careful because be careful because be careful because who knows what they're gonna break who knows what they're gonna break who knows what they're gonna break walking walking walking towards the ball right um so it's uh so it's uh you know some like um so many you know some like um so many you know some like um so many misconceptions about play misconceptions about play misconceptions about play and one big one even even in some of the and one big one even even in some of the and one big one even even in some of the like the like the like the marine world trainers like the marine world trainers like the marine world trainers like the orcas dolphins sea lion even orcas dolphins sea lion even orcas dolphins sea lion even there some uh um okay let me let me back up here okay let me let me back up here as i said it's a biological program as i said it's a biological program as i said it's a biological program which means which means which means it's basically a primary reinforcer it's basically a primary reinforcer it's basically a primary reinforcer play is not something that uh you know play is not something that uh you know play is not something that uh you know you need to you need to you need to reward with food reward with food reward with food the play itself is biologically the play itself is biologically the play itself is biologically rewarding to you and it's important to rewarding to you and it's important to rewarding to you and it's important to your development your development your development um and um and um and i don't know some some there is like i don't know some some there is like i don't know some some there is like actually people actually people actually people sell like dog dog companies sell like dog dog companies sell like dog dog companies they will sell um little tug toys or they will sell um little tug toys or they will sell um little tug toys or balls balls balls where you can open it and you can put where you can open it and you can put where you can open it and you can put some treats inside to encourage the dog some treats inside to encourage the dog some treats inside to encourage the dog to play to play

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to play and basically get it rewarded with food and that's a pretty ridiculous idea and that's a pretty ridiculous idea because it just completely diminished because it just completely diminished because it just completely diminished the value and the importance and the value and the importance and the value and the importance and eventually later on in training you also eventually later on in training you also eventually later on in training you also uh when you're when you're trying to uh when you're when you're trying to uh when you're when you're trying to maybe withhold rewards or manipulate maybe withhold rewards or manipulate maybe withhold rewards or manipulate rewards rewards rewards if you if you don't understand what is a if you if you don't understand what is a if you if you don't understand what is a condition what is primary reinforcer condition what is primary reinforcer condition what is primary reinforcer uh you're going down a rabbit hole uh you're going down a rabbit hole uh you're going down a rabbit hole and and you know and and you know and and you know of course things will work to some level of course things will work to some level of course things will work to some level but will not work but will not work but will not work at the the optimal um so at the the optimal um so at the the optimal um so yeah that that kind of comes from yeah that that kind of comes from yeah that that kind of comes from surprisingly surprisingly surprisingly the the marine mammal trainers they the the marine mammal trainers they the the marine mammal trainers they they were very and still i mean to as they were very and still i mean to as they were very and still i mean to as much as they can much as they can much as they can still do training they would still still do training they would still still do training they would still reinforce the dolphin to go and do some reinforce the dolphin to go and do some reinforce the dolphin to go and do some trick with the ball trick with the ball trick with the ball and come back and get a fish and come back and get a fish and come back and get a fish um i'm not a dolphin trainer um i'm not a dolphin trainer um i'm not a dolphin trainer but um i know that you can but um i know that you can but um i know that you can you don't have to do that or at least you don't have to do that or at least you don't have to do that or at least you need to understand that play you need to understand that play you need to understand that play doesn't need to be uh you know it is a doesn't need to be uh you know it is a

18:57

doesn't need to be uh you know it is a primary reinforcer is what i'm saying primary reinforcer is what i'm saying primary reinforcer is what i'm saying um so when you like like when i'm talking like like when i'm talking about development and and all the i mean about development and and all the i mean about development and and all the i mean endless benefits really but i'll just endless benefits really but i'll just endless benefits really but i'll just name few um um before that i guess i i should say that before that i guess i i should say that before that i guess i i should say that i divide like i've spent like all of my i divide like i've spent like all of my i divide like i've spent like all of my training being with the training being with the training being with the pet dogs with shelter dogs like like a pet dogs with shelter dogs like like a pet dogs with shelter dogs like like a sport dogs everything goes around sport dogs everything goes around sport dogs everything goes around play of course there is always room for play of course there is always room for play of course there is always room for other things um sometimes other things um sometimes other things um sometimes people will say well do you ever use people will say well do you ever use people will say well do you ever use food that's yes i do but it's food that's yes i do but it's food that's yes i do but it's definitely probably ten percent of the definitely probably ten percent of the definitely probably ten percent of the time time time uh if if i need to uh if if i need to uh if if i need to but uh the domain the main reward and but uh the domain the main reward and but uh the domain the main reward and the main the main the main activity really is a play for me play so there is a like i divide before play so there is a like i divide before i go into i go into i go into you know my games of chasing cage and you know my games of chasing cage and you know my games of chasing cage and possession games possession games possession games i have to back up and and there is i have to back up and and there is i have to back up and and there is games and then there is activities games and then there is activities games and then there is activities so you can have a you can kind of bounce so you can have a you can kind of bounce so you can have a you can kind of bounce a ball a ball a ball or pull on a rope but there is or pull on a rope but there is or pull on a rope but there is not real purpose and that's why i kind not real purpose and that's why i kind not real purpose and that's why i kind of call it activity of call it activity

20:40

of call it activity so like if you imagine uh what kind of leather say basketball uh what kind of leather say basketball okay whatever but you take the okay whatever but you take the okay whatever but you take the you take the goal or you take the the you take the goal or you take the the you take the goal or you take the the hoop out of the hoop out of the hoop out of the game and then unless they decide to game and then unless they decide to game and then unless they decide to come up with a different objective come up with a different objective come up with a different objective how to compete or how to compare each how to compete or how to compare each how to compete or how to compare each other's skill and how to improve other's skill and how to improve other's skill and how to improve then it stays on a level of some sort of then it stays on a level of some sort of then it stays on a level of some sort of activity that it's still pleasant of activity that it's still pleasant of activity that it's still pleasant of course but course but course but it kind of you can just kind of bounce it kind of you can just kind of bounce it kind of you can just kind of bounce the ball and the ball and the ball and fade away and smoke them and and fade away and smoke them and and fade away and smoke them and and and that's that to where and that's that to where and that's that to where games they have objectives games they have objectives games they have objectives and anytime you have an objective and anytime you have an objective and anytime you have an objective you strive to accomplish the objective you strive to accomplish the objective you strive to accomplish the objective so there is a goal so there is a goal so there is a goal and that makes you improve and when you and that makes you improve and when you and that makes you improve and when you accomplish a goal what else happens accomplish a goal what else happens accomplish a goal what else happens your confidence boosts so your confidence boosts so your confidence boosts so um let's say a lot of times um let's say a lot of times um let's say a lot of times i will have you know when i give i will have you know when i give i will have you know when i give presentations or at the school presentations or at the school presentations or at the school we will be talking about well what about we will be talking about well what about we will be talking about well what about a shy dog what about the aggressive dog a shy dog what about the aggressive dog a shy dog what about the aggressive dog and it's very important for a shy dog to

22:03

and it's very important for a shy dog to and it's very important for a shy dog to you know it's one of the really easy you know it's one of the really easy you know it's one of the really easy ways to build ways to build ways to build confidence because if confidence because if confidence because if the dog learns how to be successful and the dog learns how to be successful and the dog learns how to be successful and how to be good at something how to be good at something how to be good at something and understand that they are that's an and understand that they are that's an and understand that they are that's an instant boost of confidence and it's far instant boost of confidence and it's far instant boost of confidence and it's far more easy for the dog to understand more easy for the dog to understand more easy for the dog to understand than just giving food than just giving food than just giving food and telling him that he's a good boy and telling him that he's a good boy and telling him that he's a good boy he's taking the food but it it really he's taking the food but it it really he's taking the food but it it really doesn't doesn't doesn't do much to grow and and become do much to grow and and become do much to grow and and become somebody as i like to say um somebody as i like to say um somebody as i like to say um so having this so having this so having this games having objectives makes a very interesting uh makes a very interesting uh interaction between the dog and the interaction between the dog and the interaction between the dog and the trainer trainer trainer and of course like um you know you can and of course like um you know you can and of course like um you know you can play with two balls you can play with play with two balls you can play with play with two balls you can play with you can make games super easy to wear you can make games super easy to wear you can make games super easy to wear the objective is um there is not how should i say this there there is not how should i say this there is not too much is not too much is not too much cooperation needed it's like you get cooperation needed it's like you get cooperation needed it's like you get that ball well i have this one that ball well i have this one that ball well i have this one so you don't you speed this one and you so you don't you speed this one and you so you don't you speed this one and you want this one want this one want this one and we can go on like this without and we can go on like this without and we can go on like this without really having to really having to really having to agree on anything unless we make a

23:30

agree on anything unless we make a agree on anything unless we make a specific point about it specific point about it specific point about it but if we have one ball or one stick or but if we have one ball or one stick or but if we have one ball or one stick or whatever whatever whatever one thing for me and the dog one thing for me and the dog one thing for me and the dog to interact through play that means that to interact through play that means that to interact through play that means that we need to we need to we need to find some way to cooperate find some way to cooperate find some way to cooperate because if we don't cooperate then the because if we don't cooperate then the because if we don't cooperate then the game goes down game goes down game goes down the drain right and that's uh the drain right and that's uh the drain right and that's uh one of the really really cool things one of the really really cool things one of the really really cool things about games trainers often will get discouraged trainers often will get discouraged frustrated even even upsetted frustrated even even upsetted frustrated even even upsetted themselves or the dog because the games themselves or the dog because the games themselves or the dog because the games that they want to play that they want to play that they want to play don't come naturally and they're don't come naturally and they're don't come naturally and they're spending times and it doesn't seem to be spending times and it doesn't seem to be spending times and it doesn't seem to be happening and they happening and they happening and they ultimately they give up and either ultimately they give up and either ultimately they give up and either butcher the game or completely butcher the game or completely butcher the game or completely abandon and go into a different style of abandon and go into a different style of abandon and go into a different style of training training training but the beauty of play is not even the but the beauty of play is not even the but the beauty of play is not even the play itself as a play itself as a play itself as a end result but the fact end result but the fact end result but the fact that finding a way you and i that finding a way you and i that finding a way you and i to agree of what the rules are to agree of what the rules are to agree of what the rules are what the objective is and what the what the objective is and what the what the objective is and what the consequences are consequences are consequences are for breaking these rules so these three for breaking these rules so these three

24:59

for breaking these rules so these three things this things this things this is like huge and it takes time is like huge and it takes time is like huge and it takes time but when you have a dog that understands but when you have a dog that understands but when you have a dog that understands how to cooperate with you how to cooperate with you how to cooperate with you when you've made a dog feel comfortable when you've made a dog feel comfortable when you've made a dog feel comfortable trusting you you made a dog understand that there's going to be some understand that there's going to be some guidance and that there's going to be guidance and that there's going to be guidance and that there's going to be some objective this is how we play that some objective this is how we play that some objective this is how we play that game game game and of course in order for any game to and of course in order for any game to and of course in order for any game to get get get really good at it there is rules because really good at it there is rules because really good at it there is rules because okay okay okay whatever game anybody can think of whatever game anybody can think of whatever game anybody can think of there is rules right after the objective there is rules right after the objective there is rules right after the objective being okay you're gonna put the boss get being okay you're gonna put the boss get being okay you're gonna put the boss get or you're gonna whatever you're gonna do or you're gonna whatever you're gonna do or you're gonna whatever you're gonna do to win the game that's gonna be your to win the game that's gonna be your to win the game that's gonna be your objective objective objective and immediately we have to have rules and immediately we have to have rules and immediately we have to have rules but you cannot do it by running but you cannot do it by running but you cannot do it by running or kicking or pushing or so on or kicking or pushing or so on or kicking or pushing or so on and rules of course as we know are and rules of course as we know are and rules of course as we know are meant to be broken especially when you meant to be broken especially when you meant to be broken especially when you really really really want to win a game want to win a game want to win a game so then there is consequences for so then there is consequences for so then there is consequences for breaking the rules breaking the rules breaking the rules and that lead to compliance and that and that lead to compliance and that and that lead to compliance and that lead to agreement and that lead to some

26:20

lead to agreement and that lead to some lead to agreement and that lead to some form of discipline and when i say form of discipline and when i say form of discipline and when i say discipline discipline discipline i don't want people to start going way i don't want people to start going way i don't want people to start going way too deep in that too deep in that too deep in that but there will be in any game you have but there will be in any game you have but there will be in any game you have an objective an objective an objective you have rules and you have you have rules and you have you have rules and you have consequences penalties for breaking the consequences penalties for breaking the consequences penalties for breaking the rules rules rules when all these three things can come when all these three things can come when all these three things can come together and we still together and we still together and we still are willing to interact this is in my world this is in my world far more important than having that whatever 10 month 10 week having that whatever 10 month 10 week old puppy old puppy old puppy doing the sit down stand in a spin to doing the sit down stand in a spin to doing the sit down stand in a spin to the left spin to the right the left spin to the right the left spin to the right chasing food not even understanding what chasing food not even understanding what chasing food not even understanding what it's doing because it's doing because it's doing because it looks like he's doing something he's it looks like he's doing something he's it looks like he's doing something he's just chasing food just chasing food just chasing food um so it can be in um so it can be in um so it can be in such a early age that we can accomplish such a early age that we can accomplish such a early age that we can accomplish some major major some major major some major major um things of importance about um things of importance about um things of importance about how we interact and and yeah let me have a sip yeah let me have a sip we had someone ask have you seen a dog we had someone ask have you seen a dog we had someone ask have you seen a dog that just wasn't able to play that just wasn't able to play that just wasn't able to play and i'm gonna piggy piggy back off that and i'm gonna piggy piggy back off that and i'm gonna piggy piggy back off that say if say if say if um a dog in the early stages wasn't um a dog in the early stages wasn't um a dog in the early stages wasn't exposed to play exposed to play exposed to play um how how do you go about teasing the um how how do you go about teasing the

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um how how do you go about teasing the play out of them play out of them play out of them right so um yeah this is these are the beautiful yeah this is these are the beautiful things about play things about play things about play now there are times now there are times now there are times when the dog is either so traumatized when the dog is either so traumatized when the dog is either so traumatized or is so old or is or is so old or is or is so old or is from a certain breed that was bred from a certain breed that was bred from a certain breed that was bred over and over and over to where over and over and over to where over and over and over to where they basically really became they basically really became they basically really became just just there is so like if you don't want to play you like if you don't want to play you really don't have really don't have really don't have like any any goals in in your life like any any goals in in your life like any any goals in in your life because because because plays in a way it's competition and it's plays in a way it's competition and it's plays in a way it's competition and it's it's it's it's like everything comes from there but like everything comes from there but like everything comes from there but having said that there is times where having said that there is times where having said that there is times where it's not possible it's not possible it's not possible but they're very rare um as i said it takes patience you need to as i said it takes patience you need to reevaluate reevaluate reevaluate everything that you're doing everything that you're doing everything that you're doing you also need to you also need to you also need to [Music] [Music] [Music] you have to make sure that you are you have to make sure that you are you have to make sure that you are enjoying it's not like hey here is the enjoying it's not like hey here is the enjoying it's not like hey here is the ball or here is the talk ball or here is the talk ball or here is the talk you bite it that's not inviting you bite it that's not inviting you bite it that's not inviting and especially for a dog that doesn't and especially for a dog that doesn't and especially for a dog that doesn't have doesn't see it as fun activity have doesn't see it as fun activity have doesn't see it as fun activity you being so standoffish you being so standoffish you being so standoffish it's not gonna make him want to play it's not gonna make him want to play it's not gonna make him want to play the cool thing about play is that you the cool thing about play is that you

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the cool thing about play is that you read you you get feedback and forge of read you you get feedback and forge of read you you get feedback and forge of your your your emotions and and you desire to interact emotions and and you desire to interact emotions and and you desire to interact and even if the daughters and join and even if the daughters and join and even if the daughters and join immediately immediately immediately if you continue for a session if you continue for a session if you continue for a session 2 5 10 and just bring the dog but play 2 5 10 and just bring the dog but play 2 5 10 and just bring the dog but play by yourself just by yourself just by yourself just you know act like things are fine and you know act like things are fine and you know act like things are fine and you're having fun you're having fun you're having fun and instead of reevaluate what you're and instead of reevaluate what you're and instead of reevaluate what you're doing else like for example you if like for example you if you come back from work and say well now you come back from work and say well now you come back from work and say well now it's six it's six it's six o'clock and it's time for us to train o'clock and it's time for us to train o'clock and it's time for us to train because that's what we do but if you're trying to accomplish but if you're trying to accomplish something you something you something you you need to start not when you want to you need to start not when you want to you need to start not when you want to start you need to look at the dog and start you need to look at the dog and start you need to look at the dog and you need to decide when the dog wants to you need to decide when the dog wants to you need to decide when the dog wants to do something do something do something and that may take a while but when the and that may take a while but when the and that may take a while but when the dog says okay i kind of feel like dog says okay i kind of feel like dog says okay i kind of feel like i have a little spunk what should i do i have a little spunk what should i do i have a little spunk what should i do i'm saying well have an idea let's go i'm saying well have an idea let's go i'm saying well have an idea let's go and do that and do that and do that and that's kind of how it starts as i and that's kind of how it starts as i and that's kind of how it starts as i said earlier said earlier said earlier super important is that um super important is that um super important is that um dogs that seem like they don't want to dogs that seem like they don't want to

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dogs that seem like they don't want to play play play the trainer instead of starting to feel the trainer instead of starting to feel the trainer instead of starting to feel frustrated the moment you feel frustrated the moment you feel frustrated the moment you feel frustrated dogs are super keen frustrated dogs are super keen frustrated dogs are super keen like okay he doesn't want to play he's like okay he doesn't want to play he's like okay he doesn't want to play he's actually borderline actually borderline actually borderline angry at me for some reason but he's angry at me for some reason but he's angry at me for some reason but he's for for whatever reason he's also for for whatever reason he's also for for whatever reason he's also bouncing a ball in front of me bouncing a ball in front of me bouncing a ball in front of me that's not gonna make it happen right so that's not gonna make it happen right so that's not gonna make it happen right so that's what i'm saying you gotta that's what i'm saying you gotta that's what i'm saying you gotta really put like uh some big hollywood really put like uh some big hollywood really put like uh some big hollywood production and pretend that you're production and pretend that you're production and pretend that you're having the best time of your life in having the best time of your life in having the best time of your life in front of them front of them front of them and then put them away and then even and then put them away and then even and then put them away and then even when you put them away don't when you put them away don't when you put them away don't don't try to be very sincere and very don't try to be very sincere and very don't try to be very sincere and very affectionate affectionate affectionate um and take time observe um and take time observe um and take time observe pick the right time pick the time when pick the right time pick the time when pick the right time pick the time when the dog really wants to the dog really wants to the dog really wants to do something sometimes we also get so do something sometimes we also get so do something sometimes we also get so fixated on fixated on fixated on what we want to play with what we want to play with what we want to play with and then we would buy this toy because and then we would buy this toy because and then we would buy this toy because this other trainer uses it and it's so this other trainer uses it and it's so this other trainer uses it and it's so effective effective effective and then that doesn't work and then we and then that doesn't work and then we

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and then that doesn't work and then we go to the next story go to the next story go to the next story and it's really not about i mean i don't want to bankrupt dog i mean i don't want to bankrupt dog companies but companies but companies but it's really not about what kind of toy it's really not about what kind of toy it's really not about what kind of toy it is um a few years back it is um a few years back it is um a few years back i was in i was giving i was in i was giving i was in i was giving some some presentation and and some some presentation and and some some presentation and and uh these people from uh these people from uh these people from um what was the name pennsylvania the um what was the name pennsylvania the um what was the name pennsylvania the working dog working dog working dog they have their breeding program they do they have their breeding program they do they have their breeding program they do all sorts of detection and stuff all sorts of detection and stuff all sorts of detection and stuff pretty pretty knowledgeable pretty pretty knowledgeable pretty pretty knowledgeable um stuff going on there but um stuff going on there but um stuff going on there but uh somebody came with that shepherd uh somebody came with that shepherd uh somebody came with that shepherd bread there eight ten months old and bread there eight ten months old and bread there eight ten months old and they were like well they were like well they were like well he just does not want to play he just does not want to play he just does not want to play and he comes and he brings and he comes and he brings and he comes and he brings i'm like okay let's let's see what is i'm like okay let's let's see what is i'm like okay let's let's see what is going on going on going on so he comes and he brings a little bag so he comes and he brings a little bag so he comes and he brings a little bag with all sorts of cute toys i mean with all sorts of cute toys i mean with all sorts of cute toys i mean everything is there everything is there everything is there and he tries and the dog is really like and he tries and the dog is really like and he tries and the dog is really like pretending that he does not exist pretending that he does not exist pretending that he does not exist like he's not running away or anything like he's not running away or anything like he's not running away or anything but he's like there's no way but he's like there's no way but he's like there's no way i'm doing anything with you with this i'm doing anything with you with this i'm doing anything with you with this things that you're things that you're

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things that you're throwing at my face and throwing at my face and throwing at my face and so we stopped for a moment i i had to kind of gather some history i i had to kind of gather some history get some get some get some questions answered that i have so the questions answered that i have so the questions answered that i have so the dog is sitting down dog is sitting down dog is sitting down by us and we're talking and by us and we're talking and by us and we're talking and he's explaining how you know he he's explaining how you know he he's explaining how you know he he did the right things and the dog he did the right things and the dog he did the right things and the dog never really opened up to play never really opened up to play never really opened up to play but i asked him well what about like is but i asked him well what about like is but i asked him well what about like is he he he just by nature i mean have you ever seen just by nature i mean have you ever seen just by nature i mean have you ever seen him like him like him like play bao and you know it's a 10 month play bao and you know it's a 10 month play bao and you know it's a 10 month old dog old dog old dog like when you talk about play you're like when you talk about play you're like when you talk about play you're talking about interaction talking about interaction talking about interaction and if he cannot play bow if you and if he cannot play bow if you and if he cannot play bow if you for 10 months you have never seen him for 10 months you have never seen him for 10 months you have never seen him play bow and invite you to do something play bow and invite you to do something play bow and invite you to do something or get excited when it sees another dog or get excited when it sees another dog or get excited when it sees another dog then we have something pathological and then we have something pathological and then we have something pathological and then then then something uh you know not quite right and he said yeah no he he would play and he said yeah no he he would play with some of the dogs with some of the dogs with some of the dogs and i see him i mean he's you know when and i see him i mean he's you know when and i see him i mean he's you know when the moment we stop the moment we stop the moment we stop interacting with him and trying to push interacting with him and trying to push interacting with him and trying to push him into him into him into let's play he kind of curious looking let's play he kind of curious looking let's play he kind of curious looking around around around and and next thing he and and next thing he

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and and next thing he is chewing on a stick i mean like it's is chewing on a stick i mean like it's is chewing on a stick i mean like it's not even like a like a not even like a like a not even like a like a maybe something a little bigger than a maybe something a little bigger than a maybe something a little bigger than a straw straw straw but he kind of has it in his poses like but he kind of has it in his poses like but he kind of has it in his poses like chewing on it so we know that that's not for food so we know that that's not for food right it's a stick but he's entertaining right it's a stick but he's entertaining right it's a stick but he's entertaining himself himself himself being bored he's not like at least not being bored he's not like at least not being bored he's not like at least not making league swords and he said he making league swords and he said he making league swords and he said he decided to chew on a stick decided to chew on a stick decided to chew on a stick so i sat down with him i pet him a so i sat down with him i pet him a so i sat down with him i pet him a little little little and he's chewing on the stick and he's chewing on the stick and he's chewing on the stick and then he kind of laid and then he kind of laid and then he kind of laid down he liked that i'm petting him he down he liked that i'm petting him he down he liked that i'm petting him he dropped the stick so i got the stick and dropped the stick so i got the stick and dropped the stick so i got the stick and i tossed it like i tossed it like i tossed it like maybe five feet maybe less than five maybe five feet maybe less than five maybe five feet maybe less than five feet feet feet then he kind of looked at me and he when then he kind of looked at me and he when then he kind of looked at me and he when he got his stick back and to make it short we ended up playing and to make it short we ended up playing with a stick and the the point of the story and the the point of the story the obvious point is that you know play the obvious point is that you know play the obvious point is that you know play doesn't have to happen doesn't have to happen doesn't have to happen in the way you want it right away at the in the way you want it right away at the in the way you want it right away at the time that you want it time that you want it time that you want it like there is a lot that you need to like there is a lot that you need to like there is a lot that you need to understand and give in understand and give in understand and give in it's very different than it's very different than

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it's very different than when we train by using a versiv when we when we train by using a versiv when we when we train by using a versiv when we train by using escape avoidance train by using escape avoidance train by using escape avoidance responses then it's like no you're gonna responses then it's like no you're gonna responses then it's like no you're gonna do because i said so and this is the do because i said so and this is the do because i said so and this is the consequences consequences consequences but to make a dog play you really need but to make a dog play you really need but to make a dog play you really need to make the dog feel comfortable with to make the dog feel comfortable with to make the dog feel comfortable with you you you trust in you all other needs trust in you all other needs trust in you all other needs have to be met and then have to be met and then have to be met and then little by little play happens but when little by little play happens but when little by little play happens but when you can play with a dog you know you can play with a dog you know you can play with a dog you know that you're in a different place in your that you're in a different place in your that you're in a different place in your relationship with a dog from that point relationship with a dog from that point relationship with a dog from that point on on on interesting enough interesting enough interesting enough the the the guy i can't think of well i the the the guy i can't think of well i the the the guy i can't think of well i don't even need to say the name but i don't even need to say the name but i don't even need to say the name but i cannot even think of it cannot even think of it cannot even think of it he was like try with the try try with he was like try with the try try with he was like try with the try try with this toy it looks like a stick this toy it looks like a stick this toy it looks like a stick you know he has this uh you know the you know he has this uh you know the you know he has this uh you know the little rubber bone things little rubber bone things little rubber bone things that it's not uh it's actually really a that it's not uh it's actually really a that it's not uh it's actually really a stick but it's a rubber stick stick but it's a rubber stick stick but it's a rubber stick that that's myself like oh i have this that that's myself like oh i have this that that's myself like oh i have this one one one i'm like why like what's the i'm like why like what's the i'm like why like what's the urgency right now we barely convince him urgency right now we barely convince him

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urgency right now we barely convince him that it's okay that that it's okay that that it's okay that i can interact with him i can interact with him i can interact with him there is nothing magical about a certain there is nothing magical about a certain there is nothing magical about a certain toy and toy and toy and and in fact the whole point of and in fact the whole point of and in fact the whole point of a like one one of the really cool things a like one one of the really cool things a like one one of the really cool things about about about games is that you understand games is that you understand games is that you understand and appreciate the interaction and not and appreciate the interaction and not and appreciate the interaction and not really really really you don't get obsessed about the object you don't get obsessed about the object you don't get obsessed about the object like think of a football game basketball like think of a football game basketball like think of a football game basketball game whatever you know game whatever you know game whatever you know the referee eventually ends the game the referee eventually ends the game the referee eventually ends the game they don't just jump at a ball and have they don't just jump at a ball and have they don't just jump at a ball and have a a a big melee who's gonna take the ball home big melee who's gonna take the ball home big melee who's gonna take the ball home because it's not about it and because it's not about it and because it's not about it and anytime you see this when the sessions are ending you know when the sessions are ending you know that there is things that you still need that there is things that you still need that there is things that you still need to work on because to work on because to work on because the dog is not quite understanding that the dog is not quite understanding that the dog is not quite understanding that the toy the toy the toy is just the the tool the the is just the the tool the the is just the the tool the the object that we end up interacting with object that we end up interacting with object that we end up interacting with it's not something that it's not something that it's not something that really has this lifelong i need to possess it in its mind because i need to possess it in its mind because if you do that if you do that if you do that you end the game there is no more game you end the game there is no more game you end the game there is no more game it's the same thing when you watch two it's the same thing when you watch two it's the same thing when you watch two dogs dogs

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dogs and the one is younger and the other one and the one is younger and the other one and the one is younger and the other one is bigger and stronger they know how to come down on the level they know how to come down on the level on the young one on the young one on the young one to play and they will even make them win to play and they will even make them win to play and they will even make them win from time to time from time to time from time to time because if they just grab the toy or because if they just grab the toy or because if they just grab the toy or drop the toy and drop the toy and drop the toy and snap at him the other one's not going to snap at him the other one's not going to snap at him the other one's not going to want to play anymore want to play anymore want to play anymore so this is the cool thing about when we so this is the cool thing about when we so this is the cool thing about when we talk cooperation talk cooperation talk cooperation um so endless really endless endless um so endless really endless endless um so endless really endless endless benefits benefits benefits including question did the owner including question did the owner including question did the owner eventually learn eventually learn eventually learn that he must unlock the play from within that he must unlock the play from within that he must unlock the play from within how did that go so he how did that go so he how did that go so he he came he came the second day we kind he came he came the second day we kind he came he came the second day we kind of ended there of ended there of ended there he came the second on the second day i he came the second on the second day i he came the second on the second day i think it was like a three-day seminar he think it was like a three-day seminar he think it was like a three-day seminar he came came came and um he was so excited and um he was so excited and um he was so excited he's like i i tried in the hotel room he's like i i tried in the hotel room he's like i i tried in the hotel room but he didn't want to play but i'm but he didn't want to play but i'm but he didn't want to play but i'm curious to see if he's gonna do now curious to see if he's gonna do now curious to see if he's gonna do now i'm like okay i mean nothing wrong that i'm like okay i mean nothing wrong that i'm like okay i mean nothing wrong that he tried because he tried because he tried because obviously he's been trying for 10 months obviously he's been trying for 10 months obviously he's been trying for 10 months if if if he tries one more time it's not gonna he tries one more time it's not gonna

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he tries one more time it's not gonna break anything break anything break anything if the dog's gonna play with me he's if the dog's gonna play with me he's if the dog's gonna play with me he's still gonna play with me still gonna play with me still gonna play with me um but he was so um but he was so um but he was so adamant to to try with a toy adamant to to try with a toy adamant to to try with a toy i'm like okay i mean go ahead nothing i'm like okay i mean go ahead nothing i'm like okay i mean go ahead nothing wrong you can try wrong you can try wrong you can try and the dog immediately shifted like and the dog immediately shifted like and the dog immediately shifted like just the change of demeanor just amazing just the change of demeanor just amazing just the change of demeanor just amazing um refused um refused um refused and then i called them he came to me and then i called them he came to me and then i called them he came to me and i grabbed something i don't know and i grabbed something i don't know and i grabbed something i don't know like uh just a bigger like uh just a bigger like uh just a bigger it wasn't a stick it was actually um um it wasn't a stick it was actually um um it wasn't a stick it was actually um um oh see now my english what is called the oh see now my english what is called the oh see now my english what is called the the peel of the tree though you know the peel of the tree though you know the peel of the tree though you know stop the core birch perch i don't know it's just like birch perch i don't know it's just like part of that tree part of that tree part of that tree maybe yeah and i mean just something maybe yeah and i mean just something maybe yeah and i mean just something completely completely completely like you wouldn't think you would play like you wouldn't think you would play like you wouldn't think you would play with that but that's all we had with that but that's all we had with that but that's all we had and so i started playing and he decided and so i started playing and he decided and so i started playing and he decided he's gonna play he's gonna play he's gonna play and the play of course he wasn't like i and the play of course he wasn't like i and the play of course he wasn't like i throw throw throw far away and you bring it back and we do far away and you bring it back and we do far away and you bring it back and we do this over and over again that was not this over and over again that was not this over and over again that was not the play the play the play but i know we could get them it's not but i know we could get them it's not

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but i know we could get them it's not that hard ah bark that's that that hard ah bark that's that that hard ah bark that's that yeah thank you guys um yeah thank you guys um yeah thank you guys um and and it was more of you know and and it was more of you know and and it was more of you know he's chewing i try to steal it then he he's chewing i try to steal it then he he's chewing i try to steal it then he moves away then i moves away then i moves away then i take it then i throw it and you know a take it then i throw it and you know a take it then i throw it and you know a little bit of stalking a little little bit of stalking a little little bit of stalking a little just very gentle just interacting and just very gentle just interacting and just very gentle just interacting and paying attention to each other paying attention to each other paying attention to each other and so when i say paying attention and so when i say paying attention and so when i say paying attention ultimately you know i mean i advised him ultimately you know i mean i advised him ultimately you know i mean i advised him that it's that it's that it's you know pretty much what i'm telling you know pretty much what i'm telling you know pretty much what i'm telling you right now you right now you right now you you need to pick up the right times you you need to pick up the right times you you need to pick up the right times you need to become sincere you cannot you need to become sincere you cannot you need to become sincere you cannot force that place not something that you force that place not something that you force that place not something that you force that's the the art about it force that's the the art about it force that's the the art about it because you have to come to an agreement because you have to come to an agreement because you have to come to an agreement what you have to force is the rules and what you have to force is the rules and what you have to force is the rules and understand consequences understand consequences understand consequences without destroying the comparation of without destroying the comparation of without destroying the comparation of the interaction the interaction the interaction so it's a very interesting thing but as so it's a very interesting thing but as so it's a very interesting thing but as i said we are biologically i said we are biologically i said we are biologically programmed we are born to be capable to programmed we are born to be capable to programmed we are born to be capable to do that do that do that if we do the right things towards each if we do the right things towards each

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if we do the right things towards each other other other and so yeah i never really heard so yeah i never really heard back and me with my life it's this kind back and me with my life it's this kind back and me with my life it's this kind of of of common i i would go somewhere i would common i i would go somewhere i would common i i would go somewhere i would help and help and help and unless somebody comes back and he has a unless somebody comes back and he has a unless somebody comes back and he has a more questions or more questions or more questions or i see them somewhere it just kind of i see them somewhere it just kind of i see them somewhere it just kind of goes away goes away goes away so i i'm not sure what happened so i i'm not sure what happened so i i'm not sure what happened um but as far as i'm concerned i know um but as far as i'm concerned i know um but as far as i'm concerned i know that the dog was able to play that the dog was able to play that the dog was able to play he wasn't like uh nothing mental nothing he wasn't like uh nothing mental nothing he wasn't like uh nothing mental nothing at the logical at the logical at the logical he just did not have the he just did not have the he just did not have the like the approach whatever they were like the approach whatever they were like the approach whatever they were doing was the dog doing was the dog doing was the dog just didn't trust and he had a big just didn't trust and he had a big just didn't trust and he had a big dislike dislike dislike towards and and this is again like it's it's a in some way the people that it's a in some way the people that have dogs that play have dogs that play have dogs that play you know the kind of dogs that i'm you know the kind of dogs that i'm you know the kind of dogs that i'm talking about that talking about that talking about that like if we are sitting right now here like if we are sitting right now here like if we are sitting right now here they will grab the ball and they'll be they will grab the ball and they'll be they will grab the ball and they'll be just here and staring at you and just just here and staring at you and just just here and staring at you and just nudging it to you and you eventually nudging it to you and you eventually nudging it to you and you eventually will will will toss it right they will teach toss it right they will teach toss it right they will teach somebody that doesn't know what to do somebody that doesn't know what to do somebody that doesn't know what to do they'll teach them how to play fetch they'll teach them how to play fetch

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they'll teach them how to play fetch with them with them with them but then you have the other ones that but then you have the other ones that but then you have the other ones that they need that help they need that help they need that help and they uh um and they uh um and they uh um it's hard for them and this is where the it's hard for them and this is where the it's hard for them and this is where the the really art comes the really art comes the really art comes to where when you teach a dog to play to where when you teach a dog to play to where when you teach a dog to play it's easy if you it's easy if you it's easy if you if the dog is stressed in your training if the dog is stressed in your training if the dog is stressed in your training and it doesn't want to take your food and it doesn't want to take your food and it doesn't want to take your food and you're like oh i'm gonna change the and you're like oh i'm gonna change the and you're like oh i'm gonna change the treats and treats and treats and well he's not gonna eat he's gonna well he's not gonna eat he's gonna well he's not gonna eat he's gonna nothing in life he's three kind of nothing in life he's three kind of nothing in life he's three kind of things which i'm very much against things which i'm very much against things which i'm very much against hopefully we don't need to talk about hopefully we don't need to talk about hopefully we don't need to talk about that that that but um you know you can make a dog take but um you know you can make a dog take but um you know you can make a dog take treats from you treats from you treats from you you can force him that's you know he has you can force him that's you know he has you can force him that's you know he has to eventually eat right to eventually eat right to eventually eat right same thing if we're using escape same thing if we're using escape same thing if we're using escape avoidance using some form of aversive avoidance using some form of aversive avoidance using some form of aversive being whatever with the dish with being whatever with the dish with being whatever with the dish with electric whatever it is electric whatever it is electric whatever it is and we ask him to sit or come we will and we ask him to sit or come we will and we ask him to sit or come we will make him come he will have no choice make him come he will have no choice make him come he will have no choice we play it's a different way of interaction it's a different way of interaction but if you can do that with a dog but if you can do that with a dog

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but if you can do that with a dog the dog appreciates you on a different the dog appreciates you on a different the dog appreciates you on a different level level level it's a very very it really is it's a very very it really is it's a very very it really is on a very different level like um i will give you another story like um i will give you another story that just happened like that just happened like that just happened like literally three days ago but the uh so okay the uh so okay so that um i i've sold a dog to to somebody and i i've sold a dog to to somebody and she's about 14 months old she's about 14 months old she's about 14 months old and they're doing protection sports and they're doing protection sports and they're doing protection sports and the person went to few schools i and the person went to few schools i and the person went to few schools i mean he's mean he's mean he's very knowledgeable um very knowledgeable um very knowledgeable um you know but you know but you know but he he wanted me to take a look and he he wanted me to take a look and he he wanted me to take a look and evaluate the dog evaluate the dog evaluate the dog and i'm like okay well let's do what and i'm like okay well let's do what and i'm like okay well let's do what what exactly what do what exactly what do what exactly what do are there any concerns or what do you are there any concerns or what do you are there any concerns or what do you want to do and want to do and want to do and it's like well i'm thinking to switch it's like well i'm thinking to switch it's like well i'm thinking to switch from ring sports to from ring sports to from ring sports to igp or i don't know i'm like well igp or i don't know i'm like well igp or i don't know i'm like well why do you want to do that so we went why do you want to do that so we went why do you want to do that so we went back and forth for a little bit back and forth for a little bit back and forth for a little bit eventually eventually eventually um i thought that i'm gonna be doing um i thought that i'm gonna be doing um i thought that i'm gonna be doing some protection and test the dog and see some protection and test the dog and see some protection and test the dog and see what what the dog is about what what the dog is about what what the dog is about but he decided that i should look at how but he decided that i should look at how but he decided that i should look at how they interact and how they play they interact and how they play they interact and how they play and of course that's what we did because and of course that's what we did because

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and of course that's what we did because i mean obviously that's what you need to i mean obviously that's what you need to i mean obviously that's what you need to do do do so they come here in this this so they come here in this this so they come here in this this is where i am right now that's kind of is where i am right now that's kind of is where i am right now that's kind of my training room my training room my training room and she walks in and she's she walks in and she's full of life i mean just full of herself full of life i mean just full of herself full of life i mean just full of herself just bouncing like a just bouncing like a just bouncing like a cricket back and forth just like i'm cricket back and forth just like i'm cricket back and forth just like i'm like okay that's gonna look really cool like okay that's gonna look really cool like okay that's gonna look really cool and he gets one toy out she kind of and he gets one toy out she kind of and he gets one toy out she kind of watches on the toy for a second watches on the toy for a second watches on the toy for a second but then she let's go then another toy but then she let's go then another toy but then she let's go then another toy comes out then i start to see that it's what i call activity how i was it's what i call activity how i was talking earlier talking earlier talking earlier like there is just no like just like there is just no like just like there is just no like just everything is just energy there is everything is just energy there is everything is just energy there is constantly spilling all over the place constantly spilling all over the place constantly spilling all over the place but there is no no objective there is no but there is no no objective there is no but there is no no objective there is no game so nothing really goes anywhere i had to ask them how of course the i had to ask them how of course the part part of the solutions part part of the solutions part part of the solutions not just out of curiosity part of the not just out of curiosity part of the not just out of curiosity part of the solution is like what what has been done solution is like what what has been done solution is like what what has been done in the past in the past in the past why do you think that's happening was it why do you think that's happening was it why do you think that's happening was it like this from the like this from the like this from the get-go or what did the get-go or what did the get-go or what did the more knowledgeable trainer advise you more knowledgeable trainer advise you more knowledgeable trainer advise you and so on

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and so on and so on so the the in a nutshell yes it was she so the the in a nutshell yes it was she so the the in a nutshell yes it was she was always like this from a puppy was always like this from a puppy was always like this from a puppy always interested something else um always interested something else um always interested something else um then the some of the really influential then the some of the really influential then the some of the really influential big names big names big names in the dog community would they would in in the dog community would they would in in the dog community would they would in advice to um trying to find what the dog wants to um trying to find what the dog wants to do do do and kind of build from there what is the and kind of build from there what is the and kind of build from there what is the dog favorite toy or what is the dog dog favorite toy or what is the dog dog favorite toy or what is the dog favorite style of interaction so they favorite style of interaction so they favorite style of interaction so they can can can build on that and eventually guide it build on that and eventually guide it build on that and eventually guide it somewhere which is somewhere which is somewhere which is in in a lot of cases this could be a in in a lot of cases this could be a in in a lot of cases this could be a good solution and what i ended up doing is just and what i ended up doing is just really let let her let her show me what really let let her let her show me what really let let her let her show me what she wanted to do because i tried to give she wanted to do because i tried to give she wanted to do because i tried to give her the one toy she beat it her the one toy she beat it her the one toy she beat it then she bit the handle then she then she bit the handle then she then she bit the handle then she let go of it dropped it on the ground let go of it dropped it on the ground let go of it dropped it on the ground started to look at started to look at started to look at what else there is and of course i have what else there is and of course i have what else there is and of course i have like like like seven bite suits and four rocks of bite seven bite suits and four rocks of bite seven bite suits and four rocks of bite sleeves and sleeves and sleeves and i don't know i mean just a dog training i don't know i mean just a dog training i don't know i mean just a dog training room so room so room so there is a lot of stuff that she is there is a lot of stuff that she is there is a lot of stuff that she is interested in interested in

49:08

interested in so i'm like just let her leather free so i'm like just let her leather free so i'm like just let her leather free and now she has all the choices whatever and now she has all the choices whatever and now she has all the choices whatever she wanted to do but i want to see what she wanted to do but i want to see what she wanted to do but i want to see what she wants to do right so she goes she she wants to do right so she goes she she wants to do right so she goes she grabs something grabs something grabs something i'm like okay let's play with that she i'm like okay let's play with that she i'm like okay let's play with that she comes she grabs it comes she grabs it comes she grabs it and almost instantly subway i'm done and almost instantly subway i'm done and almost instantly subway i'm done with that with that with that and then start searching something else and then start searching something else and then start searching something else and something else and something else and something else um and you know every once in a while dog you know every once in a while dog trainers trainers trainers for whatever reason love to talk about for whatever reason love to talk about for whatever reason love to talk about dopamine dopamine dopamine but it's quite confusing and i don't but it's quite confusing and i don't but it's quite confusing and i don't want to really get into a big want to really get into a big want to really get into a big what happens in your brain and the what happens in your brain and the what happens in your brain and the chemicals how they work chemicals how they work chemicals how they work lecture here but uh lecture here but uh lecture here but uh she was a very prime example of of uh she was a very prime example of of uh she was a very prime example of of uh what dopamine really is like a what dopamine really is like a what dopamine really is like a dopamine junkie because dopamine has a dopamine junkie because dopamine has a dopamine junkie because dopamine has a very good very good very good things i mean without that we will things i mean without that we will things i mean without that we will not survive you we obviously need it not survive you we obviously need it not survive you we obviously need it but it's uh it's not like the the reward but it's uh it's not like the the reward but it's uh it's not like the the reward chemical that you search pleasure or chemical that you search pleasure or chemical that you search pleasure or whatever you want to call it it's whatever you want to call it it's whatever you want to call it it's it's basically uh you you are always

50:26

it's basically uh you you are always it's basically uh you you are always chasing something in the future you're chasing something in the future you're chasing something in the future you're never never never happy here and now happy here and now happy here and now it's like let's say i i go and i win it's like let's say i i go and i win it's like let's say i i go and i win some championship and maybe some championship and maybe some championship and maybe an hour later i'm like okay what what an hour later i'm like okay what what an hour later i'm like okay what what now um now um now um and as i said there is the benefits but and as i said there is the benefits but and as i said there is the benefits but there is a lot a lot of bad stuff about there is a lot a lot of bad stuff about there is a lot a lot of bad stuff about it because you it because you it because you you just you cannot stay focused you you just you cannot stay focused you you just you cannot stay focused you cannot pay attention cannot pay attention cannot pay attention and this is what i really wanted to and this is what i really wanted to and this is what i really wanted to mention this is why i mention this is why i mention this is why i ended up talking about that dog because ended up talking about that dog because ended up talking about that dog because what games teach you what games teach you what games teach you even from a little puppy which is super even from a little puppy which is super even from a little puppy which is super important when you have a a important when you have a a important when you have a a working dog when you're gonna interact working dog when you're gonna interact working dog when you're gonna interact like in training like in training like in training is that it is that it is that it reinforces or it teaches and improves reinforces or it teaches and improves reinforces or it teaches and improves the dog to be able to pay attention to the dog to be able to pay attention to the dog to be able to pay attention to stay stay stay focused on the same task focused on the same task focused on the same task for a very long time for a very long time for a very long time and some can do it very easy and some and some can do it very easy and some and some can do it very easy and some struggle with it struggle with it struggle with it but it's not even only mental there is but it's not even only mental there is but it's not even only mental there is the physical endurance and mental the physical endurance and mental the physical endurance and mental endurance endurance endurance and we know that the moment you've

51:49

and we know that the moment you've and we know that the moment you've reached physical fatigue of course your reached physical fatigue of course your reached physical fatigue of course your brain starts to brain starts to brain starts to be more busy how to manage that be more busy how to manage that be more busy how to manage that how to budget that deficit of okay your how to budget that deficit of okay your how to budget that deficit of okay your fatigue fatigue fatigue versus focusing on the game so the versus focusing on the game so the versus focusing on the game so the moment you physically cannot that's why moment you physically cannot that's why moment you physically cannot that's why you're like not interested anymore to you're like not interested anymore to you're like not interested anymore to play so play so play so mental and physical endurance are super mental and physical endurance are super mental and physical endurance are super important and this is important and this is important and this is one of the best ways to accomplish it is one of the best ways to accomplish it is one of the best ways to accomplish it is through playing not through playing not through playing not not a treadmill not bike running not a treadmill not bike running not a treadmill not bike running um because treadmill and bike running um because treadmill and bike running um because treadmill and bike running don't focus on the mental endurance don't focus on the mental endurance don't focus on the mental endurance right um so right um so right um so there's like really um so so many there's like really um so so many there's like really um so so many benefits of it um another benefits of it um another benefits of it um another ones are of course even you know i mean ones are of course even you know i mean ones are of course even you know i mean depending who you talk to even now i depending who you talk to even now i depending who you talk to even now i still hear still hear still hear oh you can should never ever if you it's oh you can should never ever if you it's oh you can should never ever if you it's some some some shelter trainers or or shelter trainers or or shelter trainers or or some pet trainers like play tug with some pet trainers like play tug with some pet trainers like play tug with your dog he should never be biting your dog he should never be biting your dog he should never be biting things and whatever things and whatever things and whatever but that's how you establish that's like but that's how you establish that's like but that's how you establish that's like the the

53:05

the the smartest and the smartest way the smartest and the smartest way the smartest and the smartest way to establish rank to establish some to establish rank to establish some to establish rank to establish some authority it's through play authority it's through play authority it's through play it's because when the rules are broken it's because when the rules are broken it's because when the rules are broken then there is consequence then there is consequence then there is consequence then you have to learn how to accept the then you have to learn how to accept the then you have to learn how to accept the penalty and how to comply to the rules penalty and how to comply to the rules penalty and how to comply to the rules and in order for me to be able to and in order for me to be able to and in order for me to be able to reinforce all that reinforce all that reinforce all that but still maintain the cooperation and but still maintain the cooperation and but still maintain the cooperation and the healthy interaction the healthy interaction the healthy interaction that means that i'm gonna create that means that i'm gonna create that means that i'm gonna create authority that you're gonna have to authority that you're gonna have to authority that you're gonna have to follow follow follow but we're still best of friends and that but we're still best of friends and that but we're still best of friends and that goes a long way goes a long way goes a long way when you're training for the when you're training for the when you're training for the competitions on a daily competitions on a daily competitions on a daily basis um how do you know when to like basis um how do you know when to like basis um how do you know when to like cap a session cap a session cap a session or how do you keep your own like mental or how do you keep your own like mental or how do you keep your own like mental endurance endurance endurance to make sure that you know you're to make sure that you know you're to make sure that you know you're keeping the dog accountable or keeping the dog accountable or keeping the dog accountable or uh you're not over exerting the dog and uh you're not over exerting the dog and uh you're not over exerting the dog and right the dog gets sloppy let's say right the dog gets sloppy let's say right the dog gets sloppy let's say yeah so um i mean there is different yeah so um i mean there is different yeah so um i mean there is different depending on the dog you you have to strategize and normally they're a little strategize and normally they're a little bit different variations bit different variations

54:16

bit different variations um but um but um but we know we know when you when we work we know we know when you when we work we know we know when you when we work when fatigue comes in when fatigue comes in when fatigue comes in and one of the good analogies that and one of the good analogies that and one of the good analogies that normally i talk about is when you have normally i talk about is when you have normally i talk about is when you have um um um like let's say let's say you go to the like let's say let's say you go to the like let's say let's say you go to the gym and you're going to work out and you gym and you're going to work out and you gym and you're going to work out and you want to want to want to kind of get healthy stronger whatever kind of get healthy stronger whatever kind of get healthy stronger whatever your goal is your goal is your goal is and you hire a trainer because if you and you hire a trainer because if you and you hire a trainer because if you don't hire a trainer you never don't hire a trainer you never don't hire a trainer you never are able to push yourself in that way are able to push yourself in that way are able to push yourself in that way and and and then and so on um and what a then and so on um and what a then and so on um and what a fitness trainer normally will do is they fitness trainer normally will do is they fitness trainer normally will do is they will kind of tell you okay do will kind of tell you okay do will kind of tell you okay do seven of these or five or whatever and seven of these or five or whatever and seven of these or five or whatever and kind of watch you kind of watch you kind of watch you and pretty much don't care until and pretty much don't care until and pretty much don't care until they see that you're reaching that they see that you're reaching that they see that you're reaching that moment of fatigue moment of fatigue moment of fatigue and then it's like okay now we start to and then it's like okay now we start to and then it's like okay now we start to train train train now you're gonna make three more reps or now you're gonna make three more reps or now you're gonna make three more reps or five more reps of whatever that is but five more reps of whatever that is but five more reps of whatever that is but this is when now this is when now this is when now the muscle and the body and the brain the muscle and the body and the brain the muscle and the body and the brain everything needs to get this urgency and everything needs to get this urgency and everything needs to get this urgency and produce produce produce and and get fit and and improve

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and and get fit and and improve and and get fit and and improve and so the same concept in a way i and so the same concept in a way i and so the same concept in a way i implement when i train i implement when i train i implement when i train i i would train i would watch i would i would train i would watch i would i would train i would watch i would the moment i start to see being physical the moment i start to see being physical the moment i start to see being physical being mental fatigue being mental fatigue being mental fatigue i i also kind of give breaks like just i i also kind of give breaks like just i i also kind of give breaks like just mental breaks within the mental breaks within the mental breaks within the session i don't i'm not that big on session i don't i'm not that big on session i don't i'm not that big on short short short training sessions i i like to have a training sessions i i like to have a training sessions i i like to have a long long long session but there are breaks to where we session but there are breaks to where we session but there are breaks to where we can actually really just have a sip of can actually really just have a sip of can actually really just have a sip of water or water or water or take 20 seconds to catch breath and then take 20 seconds to catch breath and then take 20 seconds to catch breath and then hear it again hear it again hear it again um but towards that moment when um but towards that moment when um but towards that moment when i know that no break can i know that no break can i know that no break can recover anymore then i would stop recover anymore then i would stop recover anymore then i would stop asking anything like like the actual works gonna stop like like the actual works gonna stop because i know now if i ask him to heal because i know now if i ask him to heal because i know now if i ask him to heal he will he will he will do it but it's not gonna be with that do it but it's not gonna be with that do it but it's not gonna be with that precision with that intensity without precision with that intensity without precision with that intensity without joy and i don't want to give him the joy and i don't want to give him the joy and i don't want to give him the idea that i will be okay with him not idea that i will be okay with him not idea that i will be okay with him not giving me exactly what i need right or giving me exactly what i need right or giving me exactly what i need right or even if i say well you're not giving me even if i say well you're not giving me even if i say well you're not giving me i'm gonna force it i'm gonna force it

56:40

i'm gonna force it when you force it it's not gonna look when you force it it's not gonna look when you force it it's not gonna look right right right but so that's kind of the point but so that's kind of the point but so that's kind of the point of the training session when i would say of the training session when i would say of the training session when i would say okay i'm not gonna ask you any more okay i'm not gonna ask you any more okay i'm not gonna ask you any more behaviors but we're gonna go into a behaviors but we're gonna go into a behaviors but we're gonna go into a little more play little more play little more play and of course for people that are gonna and of course for people that are gonna and of course for people that are gonna watch that i'm not suggesting that you watch that i'm not suggesting that you watch that i'm not suggesting that you over work dogs cause especially those over work dogs cause especially those over work dogs cause especially those that are that are that are you know working breeds like you can you know working breeds like you can you know working breeds like you can literally literally literally overheat and kill them by throwing overheat and kill them by throwing overheat and kill them by throwing ball because they would not know how to ball because they would not know how to ball because they would not know how to stop stop stop so you know you have to be very so you know you have to be very so you know you have to be very reasonable but you reasonable but you reasonable but you certainly can work on building uh certainly can work on building uh certainly can work on building uh that mental and physical endurance which that mental and physical endurance which that mental and physical endurance which is super important without that is super important without that is super important without that um you know you're staying in this um you know you're staying in this um you know you're staying in this plateau just like plateau just like plateau just like as again as i say if you're going to the as again as i say if you're going to the as again as i say if you're going to the gym and gym and gym and every time you go you do whatever every time you go you do whatever every time you go you do whatever it is five times you you never really stimulate that body you you never really stimulate that body to improve to improve to improve right so that that's another big right so that that's another big right so that that's another big thing that i would do when i play thing that i would do when i play thing that i would do when i play we have a a bunch of questions about um

57:58

we have a a bunch of questions about um we have a a bunch of questions about um well a bunch of people that are just well a bunch of people that are just well a bunch of people that are just getting into igp getting into igp getting into igp um do you have any uh any tips for um do you have any uh any tips for um do you have any uh any tips for uh first people starting um yeah like the really the um yeah like the really the best tip that i can give anyone is best tip that i can give anyone is best tip that i can give anyone is focus on play before anything else focus on play before anything else focus on play before anything else um it's almost counter intuitive um it's almost counter intuitive um it's almost counter intuitive especially when you see all this it's just such a norm it's just such a norm to take some food and do all these to take some food and do all these to take some food and do all these things and make the puppy fallow food things and make the puppy fallow food things and make the puppy fallow food or the old dog or the old dog or the old dog [Music] [Music] [Music] you can do that at any point in time you can do that at any point in time you can do that at any point in time and then you know you can take a 14 year and then you know you can take a 14 year and then you know you can take a 14 year old dog and he will do old dog and he will do old dog and he will do just as a eight week old puppy but just as a eight week old puppy but just as a eight week old puppy but for the development on a young puppy for the development on a young puppy for the development on a young puppy play cooperation rules consequences play cooperation rules consequences play cooperation rules consequences attention span physical mental endurance attention span physical mental endurance attention span physical mental endurance all those things are all those things are all those things are far more important to me so um yeah i have like my dog yeah i have like my dog well dog a puppy that i have right now well dog a puppy that i have right now well dog a puppy that i have right now um he's it's gonna sound funny he doesn't know it's gonna sound funny he doesn't know how to down on command yet he knows what he knows out he knows what he knows out because out is important and the way we because out is important and the way we because out is important and the way we learn to out is learn to out is learn to out is super important so we don't have any super important so we don't have any super important so we don't have any animosity against each other um animosity against each other um

59:48

animosity against each other um but we can play forever we want to play but we can play forever we want to play but we can play forever we want to play forever forever forever no matter what time of the day or night no matter what time of the day or night no matter what time of the day or night it is it is it is and i have to stop him because he will and i have to stop him because he will and i have to stop him because he will not stop not stop not stop then i taught him then i taught him then i taught him healing probably in a week that looks healing probably in a week that looks healing probably in a week that looks incredible right now like you can just incredible right now like you can just incredible right now like you can just go and go and go and go and go and go go and go and go and go and go and go go and go and go and go and go and go and go and go and go and go and go and go and there is no like i'm not holding toy and there is no like i'm not holding toy and there is no like i'm not holding toy or not making spin there's nothing it's or not making spin there's nothing it's or not making spin there's nothing it's just just just i have built up enough of motivation i have built up enough of motivation i have built up enough of motivation and sense of cooperation and a feeling and sense of cooperation and a feeling and sense of cooperation and a feeling of of of what the objective is that just pushes what the objective is that just pushes what the objective is that just pushes through it's just a matter of through it's just a matter of through it's just a matter of how to show it and so he knows out how to show it and so he knows out how to show it and so he knows out he has a beautiful healing he has a beautiful healing he has a beautiful healing i just started to teach him sit like few i just started to teach him sit like few i just started to teach him sit like few days ago days ago days ago and but everything is going to start to and but everything is going to start to and but everything is going to start to come extremely fast come extremely fast come extremely fast and the reason it's going to come and the reason it's going to come and the reason it's going to come extremely fast is again i have extremely fast is again i have extremely fast is again i have cooperation and i he has motivation he's kind of and i he has motivation he's kind of he's kind of like a like a druggie he's he's kind of like a like a druggie he's he's kind of like a like a druggie he's injected he he's injected he he's injected he he's he's done his mind but he's like please he's done his mind but he's like please

1:01:10

he's done his mind but he's like please let's play all it takes now is to say let's play all it takes now is to say let's play all it takes now is to say well well well we're gonna play if you do that little we're gonna play if you do that little we're gonna play if you do that little thing and he's like of course thing and he's like of course thing and he's like of course and so yeah um don't underestimate and so yeah um don't underestimate and so yeah um don't underestimate play that that's like my biggest advice play that that's like my biggest advice play that that's like my biggest advice um for um for um for anybody and it doesn't need to be igp anybody and it doesn't need to be igp anybody and it doesn't need to be igp anything that you do with dogs even if anything that you do with dogs even if anything that you do with dogs even if you do shelters if you do service you do shelters if you do service you do shelters if you do service whatever it is whatever it is whatever it is play by far play by far play by far is the the most important thing is the the most important thing is the the most important thing in my in my world no question in my in my world no question in my in my world no question what is your favorite thing to teach oh so i mean i'm oh so i mean i'm very competitive and i'm very interested very competitive and i'm very interested very competitive and i'm very interested in in in in in in i always kind of experiment i always you i always kind of experiment i always you i always kind of experiment i always you know it's kind of having that know it's kind of having that know it's kind of having that beginner's mind you always beginner's mind you always beginner's mind you always and it's not even and it's not even and it's not even like i like the little challenges it's like i like the little challenges it's like i like the little challenges it's not a specific not a specific not a specific the things that i know how to teach the things that i know how to teach the things that i know how to teach really well really well really well they're you know they're you know they're you know i'm going through the motions and it's i'm going through the motions and it's i'm going through the motions and it's not to say that i don't not to say that i don't not to say that i don't enjoy it but there is yeah we're gonna enjoy it but there is yeah we're gonna enjoy it but there is yeah we're gonna heal and you're gonna have heal and you're gonna have heal and you're gonna have beautiful attention and you're gonna be beautiful attention and you're gonna be

1:02:28

beautiful attention and you're gonna be wagging your tail and you're gonna wagging your tail and you're gonna wagging your tail and you're gonna come really far like these are the come really far like these are the come really far like these are the things that when you have the right dog things that when you have the right dog things that when you have the right dog and the right selection and you know how and the right selection and you know how and the right selection and you know how to make it to make it to make it it's just a matter of time but it's just a matter of time but it's just a matter of time but what is really interesting to me is the what is really interesting to me is the what is really interesting to me is the little challenges that come along the little challenges that come along the little challenges that come along the way that's what keeps me motivated to way that's what keeps me motivated to way that's what keeps me motivated to even even even think of well that not quite well think of well that not quite well think of well that not quite well working with you working with you working with you does it let's think what else can we do does it let's think what else can we do does it let's think what else can we do and come to some agreement and see well and come to some agreement and see well and come to some agreement and see well can it last can it last can it last is it gonna so it's uh it's actually the is it gonna so it's uh it's actually the is it gonna so it's uh it's actually the it can be in any area of dog training it can be in any area of dog training it can be in any area of dog training but it's this little challenges that's but it's this little challenges that's but it's this little challenges that's what what what makes me really look forward to training makes me really look forward to training makes me really look forward to training um but if you really really have to push um but if you really really have to push um but if you really really have to push it it it um obedience is um obedience is um obedience is um by far the most important again it's because the most important again it's because it's the interaction like if you have it's the interaction like if you have it's the interaction like if you have if you have the right obedience with a if you have the right obedience with a if you have the right obedience with a dog that means that you dog that means that you dog that means that you you have good communication and you can you have good communication and you can you have good communication and you can teach him anything teach him anything

1:03:38

teach him anything else that possibly genetically that dog else that possibly genetically that dog else that possibly genetically that dog is capable of is capable of is capable of and if your obedience sucks then you're and if your obedience sucks then you're and if your obedience sucks then you're you can do other things but you're gonna you can do other things but you're gonna you can do other things but you're gonna 100 percent rely on on the dog's road 100 percent rely on on the dog's road 100 percent rely on on the dog's road genetics genetics genetics because you're sucking interacting and because you're sucking interacting and because you're sucking interacting and teaching teaching teaching and obedience i guess it's the you know and obedience i guess it's the you know and obedience i guess it's the you know it's the mother of everything when it it's the mother of everything when it it's the mother of everything when it comes to dog training comes to dog training comes to dog training from breezy bear how soon do you from breezy bear how soon do you from breezy bear how soon do you introduce consequences to a young introduce consequences to a young introduce consequences to a young dog learning the games dog learning the games dog learning the games it's a good question so that's a um and it's a good question so that's a um and it's a good question so that's a um and by the way by the way by the way like i mean almost everything that we like i mean almost everything that we like i mean almost everything that we talk about right now it's talk about right now it's talk about right now it's in in the videos uh chasing catch and in in the videos uh chasing catch and in in the videos uh chasing catch and possession game so anybody that possession game so anybody that possession game so anybody that wants to go a little bit deeper into it wants to go a little bit deeper into it wants to go a little bit deeper into it that that would be a that that would be a that that would be a next thing to do um next thing to do um next thing to do um so consequences so consequences so consequences penalties punishment whatever we want to penalties punishment whatever we want to penalties punishment whatever we want to say it they dogs don't really they dogs don't really need a certain age to learn that need a certain age to learn that need a certain age to learn that um again i don't want to get um again i don't want to get um again i don't want to get too crazy like this is something we talk too crazy like this is something we talk too crazy like this is something we talk when like in when like in

1:05:00

when like in at class at my school um you know there at class at my school um you know there at class at my school um you know there is is is pleasant and unpleasant when it comes pleasant and unpleasant when it comes pleasant and unpleasant when it comes down to the the down to the the down to the the most fundamental principle on earth it's most fundamental principle on earth it's most fundamental principle on earth it's like like like you avoid something unpleasant you you avoid something unpleasant you you avoid something unpleasant you approach something pleasant approach something pleasant approach something pleasant and again we are programmed this is like and again we are programmed this is like and again we are programmed this is like a a a like if we don't have that we it doesn't like if we don't have that we it doesn't like if we don't have that we it doesn't life life life you don't exist um and and so what you don't exist um and and so what you don't exist um and and so what happens happens happens you know even even puppies that cannot you know even even puppies that cannot you know even even puppies that cannot walk they're already walk they're already walk they're already responding as much as they can in this responding as much as they can in this responding as much as they can in this way way way the probably the very first time that the probably the very first time that the probably the very first time that they start to kind of they start to kind of they start to kind of be a little bit more uh self-conscious be a little bit more uh self-conscious be a little bit more uh self-conscious and and and and and and actually able to do something about it actually able to do something about it actually able to do something about it able to avoid something unpleasant able to avoid something unpleasant able to avoid something unpleasant is in the litter box with mom is in the litter box with mom is in the litter box with mom you know if mom says you you're done you know if mom says you you're done you know if mom says you you're done eating eating eating and you're just three weeks and you're and you're just three weeks and you're and you're just three weeks and you're barely barely barely stumbling and she tells you no don't stumbling and she tells you no don't stumbling and she tells you no don't done and you learn how to go away done and you learn how to go away done and you learn how to go away so so consequences is not something that so so consequences is not something that so so consequences is not something that it's it's it's a you know human construct it's not we a you know human construct it's not we

1:06:22

a you know human construct it's not we we don't we don't we don't need to teach them just like nobody need to teach them just like nobody need to teach them just like nobody needs to teach you needs to teach you needs to teach you if you i mean yes i can tell you don't if you i mean yes i can tell you don't if you i mean yes i can tell you don't put your hand on the hot stuff put your hand on the hot stuff put your hand on the hot stuff but ultimately you will not but ultimately you will not but ultimately you will not pay not listen to me and you ultimately pay not listen to me and you ultimately pay not listen to me and you ultimately you will eventually touch it you will eventually touch it you will eventually touch it and hopefully it wasn't that hard and and hopefully it wasn't that hard and and hopefully it wasn't that hard and and you learned the lesson and you learned the lesson and you learned the lesson um so um so um so bottom line there is no certain age bottom line there is no certain age bottom line there is no certain age where consequences are it's not like uh they are biologically ready to they are biologically ready to understand consequences understand consequences understand consequences if you make sense if it's all contingent if you make sense if it's all contingent if you make sense if it's all contingent if you know it's a it if you know it's a it if you know it's a it could be a different story for example i could be a different story for example i could be a different story for example i walk into walk into walk into my training building and i decide to sit my training building and i decide to sit my training building and i decide to sit on a chair on a chair on a chair and i get electric shock i reach for my and i get electric shock i reach for my and i get electric shock i reach for my glass and glass and glass and i get electric shock but then i reach i get electric shock but then i reach i get electric shock but then i reach again but this time i don't then i touch again but this time i don't then i touch again but this time i don't then i touch this and just this and just this and just randomly i experience bad stuff randomly i experience bad stuff randomly i experience bad stuff that doesn't make sense then i would not that doesn't make sense then i would not that doesn't make sense then i would not want to want to want to come in that room anymore and whomever come in that room anymore and whomever come in that room anymore and whomever else is in that room else is in that room else is in that room that i may think that has something to that i may think that has something to

1:07:32

that i may think that has something to do with it do with it do with it of course i will dislike them of course i will dislike them of course i will dislike them but if it's only the glass or if it's but if it's only the glass or if it's but if it's only the glass or if it's something that makes sense something that makes sense something that makes sense then then that's that's normal that's then then that's that's normal that's then then that's that's normal that's how it should be how it should be how it should be you know that's kind of how you know uh you know that's kind of how you know uh you know that's kind of how you know uh electricians that work on those high electricians that work on those high electricians that work on those high voltage poles you know they don't go voltage poles you know they don't go voltage poles you know they don't go to work shitless like i'm gonna die to work shitless like i'm gonna die to work shitless like i'm gonna die today today today they they know what they need to do to they they know what they need to do to they they know what they need to do to stay safe and make stay safe and make stay safe and make big money and and big money and and big money and and it's there is no there is no uh it's not it's there is no there is no uh it's not it's there is no there is no uh it's not an an an age is not a factor um age is not a factor um age is not a factor um punishment is a very interesting topic punishment is a very interesting topic punishment is a very interesting topic but it's not but it's not but it's not obviously you know it's a much much obviously you know it's a much much obviously you know it's a much much deeper deeper deeper topic but in short um topic but in short um topic but in short um it's a any any time really as long as it's a any any time really as long as it's a any any time really as long as you make sense you make sense you make sense and as long as you you know um there's a big difference between there's a big difference between experience brief pain experience brief pain experience brief pain brief unpleasantness brief unpleasantness brief unpleasantness or suffering and if you know like like once you start and if you know like like once you start thinking this way thinking this way thinking this way you start to you know you you have to you start to you know you you have to you start to you know you you have to make sure that you respect the make sure that you respect the make sure that you respect the animal and and you don't do stupid animal and and you don't do stupid animal and and you don't do stupid things just because somebody else does

1:09:01

things just because somebody else does things just because somebody else does it it it um but for a normal um but for a normal um but for a normal healthy person we are prepared to think correctly for we are prepared to think correctly for those kind of those kind of those kind of things there is of course a lot of things there is of course a lot of things there is of course a lot of clutter that clutter that clutter that you know we watch all the time and and you know we watch all the time and and you know we watch all the time and and including all the social sciences you including all the social sciences you including all the social sciences you know know know um i had this really cool podcast um i had this really cool podcast um i had this really cool podcast i think was a couple of months ago with i think was a couple of months ago with i think was a couple of months ago with um these two brilliant people um um these two brilliant people um um these two brilliant people um and and they they talked quite a bit and and they they talked quite a bit and and they they talked quite a bit about this about this about this it's just kind of how genetically what it's just kind of how genetically what it's just kind of how genetically what what we do and what we don't and and how what we do and what we don't and and how what we do and what we don't and and how what how to respect what the dog what how to respect what the dog what how to respect what the dog offers and what it comes with you know offers and what it comes with you know offers and what it comes with you know so yeah um earlier yeah um earlier we talked a little bit about um how you we talked a little bit about um how you we talked a little bit about um how you how how how as humans we can project our energy onto as humans we can project our energy onto as humans we can project our energy onto our dogs our dogs our dogs um when you are going to a play session um when you are going to a play session um when you are going to a play session and say you're not in that and say you're not in that and say you're not in that that mood is there any secret sauce that that mood is there any secret sauce that that mood is there any secret sauce that the ivan secret sauce the ivan secret sauce the ivan secret sauce that you have to turn on the magic of that you have to turn on the magic of that you have to turn on the magic of play to get in the mood play to get in the mood play to get in the mood to uh have a great session very good to uh have a great session very good to uh have a great session very good question yeah that's uh this is question yeah that's uh this is

1:10:26

question yeah that's uh this is that kind of depends how good of an that kind of depends how good of an that kind of depends how good of an actor you are you know that's why actor you are you know that's why actor you are you know that's why some people win the oscars and some some people win the oscars and some some people win the oscars and some don't don't don't and if you don't think you can win an and if you don't think you can win an and if you don't think you can win an oscar then oscar then oscar then if you don't if you are not in the right if you don't if you are not in the right if you don't if you are not in the right mood mood mood don't do it just step out leave it alone don't do it just step out leave it alone don't do it just step out leave it alone leave it alone go do something else jump leave it alone go do something else jump leave it alone go do something else jump around sing around sing around sing bounce recover get to uh bounce recover get to uh bounce recover get to uh you you it's a really big deal you have you you it's a really big deal you have you you it's a really big deal you have to have good to have good to have good energy you have to feel you know it's energy you have to feel you know it's energy you have to feel you know it's almost like a cliche almost like a cliche almost like a cliche but it's not cliche if i really talk to but it's not cliche if i really talk to but it's not cliche if i really talk to you deep about it you understand that you deep about it you understand that you deep about it you understand that this is this is this is so so so deep um you you don't mess so so so deep um you you don't mess so so so deep um you you don't mess around with that around with that around with that going back to my dog with the trucking i going back to my dog with the trucking i going back to my dog with the trucking i think that was part of think that was part of think that was part of um the the big puzzle um the the big puzzle um the the big puzzle um he he didn't really um he he didn't really um he he didn't really he just like any dog he keys and he's he just like any dog he keys and he's he just like any dog he keys and he's very very very connected and he knows if how if i am in a good place or or not in my if i am in a good place or or not in my head head head and of course when he's with me he's and of course when he's with me he's and of course when he's with me he's like well maybe like well maybe like well maybe maybe it's my fault for something and maybe it's my fault for something and maybe it's my fault for something and i'm stressing because i'm stressing because

1:11:47

i'm stressing because look at you and so yeah if you if you're look at you and so yeah if you if you're look at you and so yeah if you if you're not capable to act and win an oscar then act and win an oscar then just leave it alone that was um just leave it alone that was um just leave it alone that was um again with one of my friends at the again with one of my friends at the again with one of my friends at the competition because i competition because i competition because i you know as i said i stayed like four you know as i said i stayed like four you know as i said i stayed like four weeks there up north and weeks there up north and weeks there up north and was hanging out with some of my friends was hanging out with some of my friends was hanging out with some of my friends there in new jersey there in new jersey there in new jersey and he was so good at it and he was so good at it and he was so good at it like so good at it like there was a time like so good at it like there was a time like so good at it like there was a time where we will set up where we will set up where we will set up we will go to like a little stadium and we will go to like a little stadium and we will go to like a little stadium and make the whole setup and everything make the whole setup and everything make the whole setup and everything but there was some reason and i can't but there was some reason and i can't but there was some reason and i can't remember but he was not remember but he was not remember but he was not in the right mood he was like i'm not gonna do it he was like i'm not gonna do it then i'm like man i i need to pay more then i'm like man i i need to pay more then i'm like man i i need to pay more attention i need to be more careful i attention i need to be more careful i attention i need to be more careful i guess guess guess instead of trying to it's not even instead of trying to it's not even instead of trying to it's not even worth putting up you know the worth putting up you know the worth putting up you know the being the best actor like if you if you being the best actor like if you if you being the best actor like if you if you can go can go can go away and recover and feeling good away and recover and feeling good away and recover and feeling good it's so so important like i cannot it's so so important like i cannot it's so so important like i cannot like i literally can talk to you about a like i literally can talk to you about a like i literally can talk to you about a week week week on on how emotions and feelings and on on how emotions and feelings and

1:13:08

on on how emotions and feelings and effect and and stuff like that works effect and and stuff like that works effect and and stuff like that works how the brain perceives things because how the brain perceives things because how the brain perceives things because it's uh it's uh it's uh even even if i get some stomach upset even even if i get some stomach upset even even if i get some stomach upset where i i ate something wrong and where i i ate something wrong and where i i ate something wrong and and i don't feel good when i don't feel and i don't feel good when i don't feel and i don't feel good when i don't feel good my face good my face good my face my body everything just my brain starts my body everything just my brain starts my body everything just my brain starts to work to to work to to work to try to manage that but then i'm looking try to manage that but then i'm looking try to manage that but then i'm looking at you and i'm talking to you and we at you and i'm talking to you and we at you and i'm talking to you and we have to get excited to do something and have to get excited to do something and have to get excited to do something and you're looking at me and you're like no you're looking at me and you're like no you're looking at me and you're like no you're you're you're dude you're not excited about it but dude you're not excited about it but dude you're not excited about it but it's not that i'm not excited about it i it's not that i'm not excited about it i it's not that i'm not excited about it i just don't feel good just don't feel good just don't feel good and of course it all leads to the next and of course it all leads to the next and of course it all leads to the next thing and the next thing thing and the next thing thing and the next thing and and this is like and and this is like and and this is like dogs can be so much more forgiving dogs can be so much more forgiving dogs can be so much more forgiving when you're in your happy place so to when you're in your happy place so to when you're in your happy place so to speak speak speak and you want to do it's like hey let's and you want to do it's like hey let's and you want to do it's like hey let's go let's have fun go let's have fun go let's have fun that that's that's when training is that that's that's when training is that that's that's when training is beautiful and that's when it's enjoyable beautiful and that's when it's enjoyable beautiful and that's when it's enjoyable anyway anyway anyway thank you for that yeah um thank you for that yeah um thank you for that yeah um on on that note i i would like to

1:14:14

on on that note i i would like to on on that note i i would like to to end this but um can you to end this but um can you to end this but um can you i know there's a lot of people asking i know there's a lot of people asking i know there's a lot of people asking about um i don't know how much time you about um i don't know how much time you about um i don't know how much time you have have have but i know you have so many videos on but i know you have so many videos on but i know you have so many videos on like teaching the out like teaching the out like teaching the out and um like your podcast what do you and um like your podcast what do you and um like your podcast what do you recommend people recommend people recommend people go and watch and okay go and watch and okay go and watch and okay um man um man um man so like i am super selective on my so like i am super selective on my so like i am super selective on my podcasts who podcasts who podcasts who i invite to talk to there was two i invite to talk to there was two i invite to talk to there was two that i kind of got stuck and i'm sure that i kind of got stuck and i'm sure that i kind of got stuck and i'm sure most of you have most of you have most of you have listened to those two unfortunately listened to those two unfortunately listened to those two unfortunately because because because they have so many hits and it's about they have so many hits and it's about they have so many hits and it's about the electric collar and low level the electric collar and low level the electric collar and low level conditioning and stuff which conditioning and stuff which conditioning and stuff which just ended up being a pointless just ended up being a pointless just ended up being a pointless discussions but discussions but discussions but if anybody that's interesting and and if anybody that's interesting and and if anybody that's interesting and and everything that i'm talking about it's everything that i'm talking about it's everything that i'm talking about it's of interest of interest of interest i strongly would suggest to listen to i strongly would suggest to listen to i strongly would suggest to listen to really really really all of the other podcasts that i have um all of the other podcasts that i have um all of the other podcasts that i have um as far as videos on play it's the for sure the chasing catch the it's the for sure the chasing catch the possession game possession game possession game and teaching the out the out is and teaching the out the out is and teaching the out the out is important because um important because um

1:15:26

important because um you cannot you know like when when i you cannot you know like when when i you cannot you know like when when i want something and you want something want something and you want something want something and you want something and we were trying to play but we end up and we were trying to play but we end up and we were trying to play but we end up in a fight how to in a fight how to in a fight how to separate from that um separate from that um separate from that um things don't go well so these are the things don't go well so these are the things don't go well so these are the probably the three video like the probably the three video like the probably the three video like the cornerstone if you want to call it a way cornerstone if you want to call it a way cornerstone if you want to call it a way of of of my training chase and catch possession my training chase and catch possession my training chase and catch possession games games games and the out and there is no really no and the out and there is no really no and the out and there is no really no particular order of anything particular order of anything particular order of anything um yeah awesome um yeah awesome um yeah awesome well they have been i i've got them in well they have been i i've got them in well they have been i i've got them in january and it's january and it's january and it's been a game changer for rika though how been a game changer for rika though how been a game changer for rika though how old how old is she now old how old is she now old how old is she now franco's now a year and three months franco's now a year and three months franco's now a year and three months okay yeah growing growing fast growing okay yeah growing growing fast growing okay yeah growing growing fast growing fast yeah her body's feeling out and fast yeah her body's feeling out and fast yeah her body's feeling out and it's yeah she's like she's doing good it's yeah she's like she's doing good it's yeah she's like she's doing good very cool very cool ivan thank you so very cool very cool ivan thank you so very cool very cool ivan thank you so much much much always a pleasure and i always a pleasure and i always a pleasure and i i want i'll go ahead and uh listen to i want i'll go ahead and uh listen to i want i'll go ahead and uh listen to your podcast your podcast your podcast you will love him i guarantee you thank you will love him i guarantee you thank you will love him i guarantee you thank you you you thank you for having me have a good thank you for having me have a good thank you for having me have a good night night night see you