Training Without Conflict® 팟캐스트 에피소드 41: Jany Böhm

to where you have this 10 minutes that you're preparing for years, and being able to do the best that you can. It's like, even as I'm talking about it, I get goosebumps, because it's just a, it's a, like, I, what I'm trying to say is that I really appreciate, and I don't really know if many people can appreciate at the level that, that, that, the people that have been there understand, the, really the, the insane effort, and commitment, and understanding of training, and making incredible sacrifices over and over again to get to where you are. and, you know, it's just not to be taken lightly, and that's part of where we want to go with this public conversation. But, man. Cheers. Ah, shit. January is still too far out. All right. Maybe, maybe we see each other sooner, man. Yanni, so, you got second place, FMBB, very, very, very close competition, very close race, as you would say, in Europe. how, how, how are you feeling now that sometimes has passed, and, and, you know, you, I, I'm sure you've thought about it back and forth with yourself, and, and, you know, what, what comes to mind? Share, share, share your experience. I know it's interesting to hear. All right. Um, first at all, you look so cool. I'm very, very happy to see you. Very happy to see you. the same. It's been for a while. What is now? What is now? End of, it's, it's May already. Yeah, it's like, so it's been like two months. Yeah. Over two months. It seems forever though, right? Yeah. We all, each other always messaging and something and still in touch, but this is like a good meeting and I don't even know if I want to talk about FMVB. I know, I know. But, oh yeah. Hmm. Now it's good, man. Now it's getting much better. Good. That's, uh, two weeks ago. And I'm feeling now, I'm starting to realize what happened. And I don't mean the wrong things. I mean the good things. Now it's starting to 50, 60%. My brain is starting to taking the, the good, positive things and what basically happened. But, uh, like last two weeks, it was like, I was like in kind of bubble and trying to really fight with myself to realize what's gonna happen, what we're gonna do if we will continue. And what basically, is the best, like, shit as the reason in my mind, which one is breaking me. And the, the biggest, like, thing was that I couldn't celebrate, you know, I was basically like, the man, which one have to celebrate really. And I did my, I mean, I did my person did, but my personality didn't. I know. In my, in my heart, I was like basically there 50% only.

So the real celebration is starting to be like truly happening now. Step by step. That's, that's all my feelings. Now I, I feel really good to, to, it is like basically really first time we speak about it. Yeah, man, I, I, like, I was telling you through some, whenever we were messaging at some point about the, being second, like being third or being fourth or fifth, it's very different than being second. And I've been second in many, actually in quite a few national championships, but only one time in the world championship. And it was very much like you. Like I, well, I don't know if it was very much like you, like, you know, we, we're all, every competition is different. That's for sure. And every time, you know, and we cannot compare, judging from some time ago to 10 years and today. But, but, yeah, I, I was, I, it was in 2000. I think it was 2000, 2001. It was in Hamburg. It was Germany. And it was very similar, like your path, you know, like I had Django. He was, I don't think he was even three years old. And I've done everything all by myself. And here I am from the States going into Germany. And, I, I know I won the competition. Like, like, like, you know, by no, like it wasn't even, um, um, there's just like, any, any time you put these videos and watch them, you, you, there is absolutely, like, at least four points or five points difference, like, that you cannot, you absolutely cannot manipulate, you know? But anyway, I, I was second. And because of where I was in my career at the time, that was my very, well, no, I lied. It wasn't my very first, but it was my very first world championship with Django at the time. And, and being second in the world, it's, I mean, fuck. Like, as upset as you are, when you understand ultimately what second in the world will means, which is, again, it's very painful in one way, because sometimes it's a point or half a point or even three points. But then there is this big difference between everybody else. And I, I get it. The, the difference is that I was so, I knew that I was the champion, but, so, I wasn't. It's okay. I was still happy because I was in a different place than where you were at this competition. Because I was, you know, the Bulgarian guy from the States coming and all of a sudden breaking in through Germans and, and Belgians and everybody else in the world that is like, well, where, where is this guy coming from? You know? So in a lot of ways, that was still probably one of my very, very special moments. but ultimately, I, I totally understand how being second place is, it's a, it's a just fucking difficult place because, yeah, as I say, it's, it's just, there is nothing, nothing around it, man. and, but sometimes,

there's just so many factors and so many things about the competition. Anyway, I'm glad that you're feeling, you know, like, that's one, one thing about competition and getting back in and going back strong and, you know, um, tough one because again, like I, as many people as were, you know, I mean, I mean, there's like, and I, I can see all sides of this and I really want to talk about judging and, and a lot of things just as we've talked in the past, but I also, you know, I've been at least three times in your place and I truly understand what it is. And I think everybody though, uh, everybody that competes at some point, even if they're competing to get in the top 10, instead of becoming world champion, the, the level of competition is still kind of similar because, you know, you're number 13 and somebody gets to be number 10. And then we judge and then we look at the points and it's like, well, was it fair? And that's where it gets very crazy because if we have 120 dogs between every group of dogs, there is this dynamics that when you're in that group, you're like, well, did I get fucked? Was it a fair competition? Um, and one thing that really kind of, um, I, I don't even know what word to use, but a little bit frustrated me when I was reading some of the comments was comments that were coming from people that don't understand. And I have, I, I don't mean it, in a disrespectful way, but there's, there's people that train, there's people that compete, but they don't even know how many points you can take. If the dog, let's say is lightly chew on the dumbbell or makes a little crooked finish or, you know, like, like they don't have the knowledge to actually be the loudest out there and to say what is fair, and what is not fair, because they are not the, like, uh, intuitively, we all understand when we see something nice, but then there is rules. and, I don't know, I, I wish that most of us, like, if most of us get to know the rules better, that's gonna improve everything, uh, um, just that's gonna improve everything. Um, but, what do you think about people understanding the rules? I agree with you. I, I 100% agree with you. I have some, some minds and, and thoughts, which one I want to share with the whole world about, about fucking everything, judging, and maybe improving something, what we have to think about the future, a lot of things, about, especially, like, the picture, what I want to see on the field as the judges, but, uh, first, first, I want to say, that, uh, it's important how to,

you know, there is a lot of ways how to lose, and it's important how do you lose. It's not about that we cannot lose, and I would really say, honestly, it's not for me the shame at all to lose with somebody who is better. Really deserve that. Then I will press the rate a second, even third place, doesn't really matter. Then I'm, like, truly happy for that place. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's, that's what happened for me in the first vice champion title, 2016 in FCI, where was winning Josef Alemustin, and that was really, truly, the serve. That's one example for my life. But, to lose, politically, for no reason, it's something which I cannot take it, and I will never take it, and I will fight all my life until I will take the over of that bullshit for the whole world. So, that's what I want to say, and that's where we have to be focused and concentrate, because, I had the opportunity to say stop, and I'm gonna do nothing. And then I just wake up because somebody told me, I do not have to do that. So, which, which I want to do, and only think I want to be focused now to help, and, say the message to everybody, that we are not afraid, and, come on, man, we change it. We can do that. Tell me, tell me more. Talk to me. What do we need to change? What do you think we need to change? Like, I, before we go, I will, probably there will be things that I would challenge you with. Yeah. But I think that's the cool thing about you and me talking, you know, because we can talk that way. First thing, first thing, it's been one year I have been helper in World Championship in Romania, and there was the same guy, supervisor, Mr. Edgar Sherkel. We share with Edgar lots of dinners and lots of thoughts about FMVB, and he's one of the biggest, like, biggest animal in the FMVB commission and everything. And we talked about which kind of judges should be, and what kind of characters of the judges and everything. And my one thought was, like, my personal, like, if I'm in competition, man, I will be honest. When I see obedience, last year, the judges, it's so boring. And only in Greece, where was the Martin Cruz and Mark Oliver Ratzke in obedience, that was the championship where they have really nice attitude on the field. It was, like, really one after many. One of, one of really last years, which one was good. But except this championship, all of them was so boring. And I mean, boring, like, it seems judges on obedience are sleeping. And to be honest, in protection, you basically, you don't rest. You see, really, from beginning, don't start to run the blinds until you finish the side transport and give the lease on. It's like, boom, boom, you know, it's like between three,

four minutes, ciao. And you can, you can just keep concentration. and everybody love protection. But in obedience, you need to see that the judge is like, you know, it's kind of show us well. But the best, and for what are people exciting, is then the judgment. So, if the judge is there talking like he's sleeping, I mean, we know what I mean. I gave in that time some opportunity, for example, like giving for the obedience also of women. Women, for me, like the judges, have even better feeling, because they are really, they are really open, and they do not, in my opinion, thinking about like bullshit there. They are really concentrated for what they have to be. So, it was like one point. If you think about it, tell me now last 10 FMBB, where was the woman judge? And B and C, I mean, yeah, not in tracking. I know two world championships, where was the tracking woman? But, this is one thing. Have you think about it ever? That's an interesting question. That's an interesting one. But when we talk about women judges, who comes to mind, like I, like I tell you what, like I don't, like I don't want to look at woman versus a guy versus a guy versus Asian versus European. I want the best judges to judges, because it takes, because they need to appreciate the, what we do, and not just appreciate, but they need to understand. And, if it happens that there is no woman, I'm okay with that. But if there is a woman, I'm also okay with that. So, but ultimately, the thing is, the thing is that, we have in the world judges, like, like young judges, women, but the problem, and let me just finish the sentence, at the point, he, I mean, when I was saying this thought, and this idea, I was just like, giving, you know, some advice. Their answer for me was like, women haven't, the balls, to judge that, or championship. They are, they cannot do that. The judge must have balls. I mean, this gender problem is for me bullshit. And, to be honest, we need, on the field, to have also, really nice show. And, not only like, judge which one, only see the bad things. Okay? So, I know personally, really a lot, which one are, much better than a lot of judges, which one have been, on the, on the field, couple of years now. And, so for me, the point is, that, if we coming, like, I'm young, and I'm bringing some advice, which one I feel it. And, if somebody is telling me, the answer, like, no, they have no balls, to judge this, and, it's a bullshit for me. Right. We cannot, yeah, that's not, we can say, okay, yeah, okay, we will stay, in the prohistory, and in stone age. Okay? Right. So, it's not about women, I mean, it's about that attitude, to listen, and, and do something, for the sport. Yeah, I got you, for sure, for sure. But, anyway,

the other thing, which one is really, super, super necessary, to change, and I mean it, is that, system on FMBB, for judges, on the final. You know, I, I really like the final, I mean, it's this, it is destroying our dogs, it is fucking war. It is kind of, man, especially, and, and especially, when you go in Saturday, and you have couple of hours, to recover your dog, prepare him some training, it's so stuck, it's, nobody can imagine, if you don't experience that, you cannot imagine. Yeah. It's like, you are sore, but your dog is like, four times more sore. Yeah. And he will give their fucking everything. So, final, I like it, but I don't like the system there, and we are, we were talking about it, last year in the podcast, this year in the podcast, still, nothing is changing. So, I would say again, and I mean, you know that already, what did I say, there is only one system, which one can be fair about, if there is four judges, and that's like, no canceling, the points, but to plus them, and say the final number, for all of them, but the most important is, that they have to not, be together, no talking each other, be separate, show, show the numbers like that, or give it to the fifth person, which one just take the card, this person has no right, to have a plan even, you know what I mean, like, like to make it really fairly, if this have a sense, because, again, the experience from, from this year, um, supervisor from tracking, supervisor, at all, on this championship, were the two guys, which one basically decided, about who will be, the world champion, those two guys, from obedience, and from tracking, man, they were there for nothing, they were there, just for the, cancel them, you know what I mean, so, because we are in this, we share this stage, and FMVB many years, we, I really dare, to talk about it loud, because, that's not fair, and that's not normal, man, that's like, can you imagine, in MMA, like, there is like, three, four judges, and they, they will cancel them, they basically, are for nothing, I know, I know, but, actually, I was gonna bring, I was gonna bring, in the MMA, and, and, later in the conversation, but here we are, so let's just talk about it, I know, I know we, we both love it, we watch it, every day, when we have an opportunity, together, and we get so frustrated, when, the referee, and the judges, score, the wrong way, and, and then, when we talk, between each other, we're like, well, yeah, it's upsetting, I know, we know, who was, we, we think he won, but, ultimately, he left it, to the judges, to decide, right? Exactly, it's not his fault, it's not his fault. Yeah, and, and so, like, like, a fighter, if you, as a fighter, if you cannot finish, the opponent, and you leave it, to the judge, to decide,

who the fuck knows, what's gonna happen, and a lot of times, the judges decide, their own way, and sometimes, I don't think, they even, do it on purpose, talking about MMA, I'm not, talking, FMVB, right? I know, I know, and, and, I mean, I know, this has to, be in your head, if you had, one of your seats, out of motion, it was game over, right? Right. Or, maybe no, maybe they were gonna, play something more, who knows, who knows, who knows, but, but, you know, like, when I compete, I always look at this, I'm like, okay, I know, I, I know, judges that don't like me, like, I, I can, even right now, give you names, like, I'm not afraid, because we, it's open, you know. You don't have to be, because they are not afraid. Right. And when, when this is the case, I, I do the best that I can, not to give them opportunity. And they can only take little things, but they cannot kill me. But, it still doesn't work. FMVB, talking about the judging. It's been going for a very long time like this. And it was, I don't think, I, so the four judges, it's been, ultimately, it was a great idea. It's like, wow, let's, this, I mean, how can this go wrong? You have four judges, and a supervisor. How can it possibly go wrong? Right. And, eventually, we see it, over and over again, that it does go wrong, for, for, for whatever the reasons are. And, I'll try to list some ideas of what I think, and, and we go back and forth on this. One of the crazy ones, for me, when I, truly was like, okay, this, absolutely, cannot work. That was, in PISAC, in 2015, you were, you were a helper, in back then. Yes. Yes. Leccec, and, and, I mean, both Czech guys, it, it was not right. And you had, you had, the top, of the top, of the top, judges, that are still in the top. And, and I'm like, okay. And, for everybody that, is, forgotten, or hasn't seen it, it's on working dog. You can go back and forth, and, bottom line, this is one of the, the, the, the ways I'm thinking of it. Let's say, let's say I'm a judge, and, you're competing. And, it really matters. It's a fucking world championship, right? And, and, I'm thinking, okay, it's, Yanni. I can give him 94, or, I can give him 96. I'll give him 96, and, maybe, the other judges, will cancel my score out, because it's too high. but, I show my friend, my score, in some way, that, you know, kind of, favors it. I think that's possible. But, then, what happens, when, you have, two more friends, or, or, whatever, in the judges, and,

they all think the same way. And, now, all of a sudden, the scores become unrealistic. So, is it possible, that the four or five judges, when they do that, they're thinking, oh, I'll, I'll give this score, and it will cancel out. It's no big deal. Ultimately, the best one's gonna come out. So, that's one possibility. It's always the going back and forth. It's always this thing, about not allowing, it's like, okay, one, one country, one team, one, person, gets, screwed, this year. And, then, the next year, they return it to them. And, it goes back and forth. It's like, what it's called, tit for tat. It's like, you, you fuck with me, I fuck with you next time. And, right? Yes, exactly. And, so, at some point, we need to actually, grow up, and appreciate, the amount of, effort, that all of us put in this. And, somehow, have the, the courage, to start fresh, and say, let's really, let's be honest. Like, the world is not, anymore, so divided. Like, we, we have friends, in every country. We train with everybody. We know everybody. The, which is very difficult, probably, and maybe impossible, but this whole thing, about the, the horse country, or the, you know, there always will be, some preference, you know, like, and it's, we're humans. There is no way, we cannot. Just like as I, I mean, immediately after your performance, I'm like, well, you, you were, for me, you were the best. Now, how true that is, I don't know, because I probably am, no, not probably, I know I'm biased, because you're my friend, and I'm looking at it, in a very different way, so, who knows, if, if, we were not, and I didn't know, how you turn, I didn't, maybe, maybe I would have, a different view, but this is the human factor, that, ultimately, we cannot take out. Oh, a lot of talking. that's, that's, that's it, always, when people will decide, that it's, this risky, it's not a computer. Right, so, one of the things, that it was, that I think, at least, it should change, immediately, this is, we need critiques, you cannot just, give points, assuming that everybody, understands, because it's, a world championship. That was decided, at one point, to save time. Okay, you got, 82 points. Thank you very much, shake hands, off the field. Next one. Well, maybe, one day, we can be there, but as long as, the program, keeps evolving, and we keep, looking for different things, and, we want to have, every judge, accountable. Like, if you give, these 92 points, I want to hear, what, where, you gave those points, and how this happened, for real. Because, if you don't tell me, you're assuming, that we all understand, the rules, and we all know, the, what we are striving for, and so on.

And, giving a critique, and if you, even if you have four judges, or five, with a supervisor, I think still, we can count, we can have the judges, accountable, by giving their critique. They don't need to give, a big seminar, but they can say, yeah, it's a sit out of motion, you got a, a good, and you got, high good, or whatever, and, and, and, you give the critique, the way you're supposed to, so we understand, what you're looking for. Because, if you just throw a point, maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. But we, nobody fucking knows. As long as we can hear, then we can agree, what a judge, is looking for, is he, trying to, push, something, is he, favoring a person, is he going, you know, get a little bit more, into the judge's head, so to speak. Yeah. And, and, but for this to happen, that means that, a world championship, cannot, have so many people in. Like, I understand, being popular, being 100, and, like, some crazy number, but, I don't think we are at the place, to where we are, okay, well, we are so proud, we have 200, and this, at the IGP world champion. So what? We can have, probably 300, if we wanted to. But what about, if we put it in the, a number, that is appropriate, so, we can, spend the time, perform correctly, allow the judges, like I, and again, I'm, I mean, I have license, but I'm, not a judge, I don't do it, because I, I know myself, and I, like to, you know, to, I mean, to stay focused, for 130 dogs, there is no question, that at some point, you're gonna mess up. That's the first bullshit, that's the first bullshit, 140 dogs. No, no, no, I don't agree. I mean, these are some of my, my thinking, that, you know. Yeah, super taught, super taught, very, very, very good. Proved to me, a few times, that, five judges, as, as cool as it looks, somehow, it is not working out. Yeah. I mean, we had, and again, like, I mean, like, I, I know you're gonna remember your competitions, and I remember, I don't, you know, I don't remember stuff, but there is certain competitions that they're like, You never forget. You never forget. Like, slide by slide, point by point, I can break it down. And now, who was a judge, and I know everything, because it mattered, like, it was really, it really mattered, and I know you, I know, from that point, of view, you know. Now, the question, though, what makes us think, that if we replace judges, and we say, okay, we have enough of these guys, let's have these new ones. Yep. What, I think, what guarantees that we're gonna, be on the right track, and we're not gonna waste another 10 years, because, like, I've, I've done it for, for quite some time, like, I was, um, no, I actually did with, uh, with Markus Noyce, a podcast, just, a couple of weeks ago, it's gonna come out, and I had a, the,

I had a t-shirt, from the very first, Belgian Shepherd World Championship, you know, I mean, it's just ridiculously crazy, and, but the reason I'm saying this, is because I've kind of seen, you know, changes, and evolution, and changes, um, but that thing about, not understanding rules, not agreeing on changes, of the rules, and, well, you're from that country, and I'm from that country, therefore, I have to, favor this guy, instead of this guy, this, has been going on, since I've been in the sport, how do we get, to be, to play, in a, fair play, right, because ultimately, you can ask, any of the competitors, we want to play, on a fair play, unless, we're like, oh, well, I have a little bit of a, favorism here, because, I'm in, my country, I'm going to get prepared, better than you, and I'm going to have a judge, better than yours, I guess, I guess, that's an inevitable, part of competition, that's your home field, that's like, in soccer, that's in, you know, there is always, that little element, that we cannot, probably, totally, get rid of, but, how, what do you think, can happen, like, man, I have just, my head is exploding, right now, thinking, I guess the question is, if we, say, well, let's get these judges, instead of, these ones, what kind of, what makes us, think that, that's going to, make a difference, I guess, you know, I hear you, well, so, you still remember, what did I say, about women judges, yes, just want to, finish that, you know, how we are, like, when we play, with the boys, and we are there, like four or five, boys, and there is no woman, we always behave, differently than, when is there, between one girl, it's normal, that's a human thing, and judging, is the same, and when, somebody, has the, like, biggest position, and those, under him, want to do it, not for the country, not for the, favor, but for the judge, because he is there, and I'm pretty sure, if there is a woman, she will not do that, you know, so, for my focus, about like, women's, like, to finish that, very quickly, it's not only that, as I'm saying, and I really meaning, I really, really sign it, and women have, very often, much better feeling, and they are much better, judges than men, and I really, think this, this can be a game changer, not only because of that, but also because of this system, in the final, where exactly, judges go together, like, in the playing balls, and bowling today, and fucking talking shit, and then say like, how much you give him today, say seven, dude, are you crazy, give him 84, and I give him 87, okay, then everybody are happy, if there is a woman, which one will stay between them, she will fuck them up, and I mean, the guy, which one was staying, on the other side, like a helper, where was the judge, a woman,

and she was really, truly doing that, because, I can really prove that, that she was doing that, and that supervisor, wasn't happy, that's why, he answered me that, and I'm so sure, that's why, since that, wasn't woman, hosted, anyway, that's like, my opinion, and one thing about, but, you, bring out, super point, man, exactly, we need a critic, I mean, we need a critic, but we need a critic, from the public, because, again, you know what I really hate, in our sport, I really hate it, and I'm so grateful, we will talk about it, look at, look at, our podcast, we, truly, openly, and honestly, talking, there, right, we do not hide, anything, right, that's how it should be, that's how it should be, completely, and, what is in our sport, very common, in world championship, yeah, next time, you know, don't be disappointed, it was missing, one point, don't, don't worry about it, next time, it will happen, and like, one month after, nobody care, nobody give a shit, everybody, everybody are like, pussy, everybody are like, super quiet, and nobody say, he, was the, fucker, who, fucked up, the whole competition, there is nobody, who's saying that, I'm like, very, already, very done, you know what I mean, because, exactly, MMA, you will remember, even more than me, but, what do I remember, there is also, very much possible, about judging score, to, to do something, that, you know, the truly winner, is not winner, we know, but, until, happened, that, people started, talk, spread the message, and share, and everything, loud, and openly, nothing happened, but then, you know, imagine, you are the judge, and you will be the judge, 15 years, and, you will do, how you want, no matter what, if it was fair or not, and because, you are the big, big, big, big, guy, big enemy, nobody will say anything, you know, and then, once, coming people, which one will talk, about you, but talk about you, like never, and everybody, will see, videos, and everything, and everybody, will comment, I mean, whole world, will stay, against the guy, against you, like the judge, you will feel, next time, that confident, to do the same shit, or you are gonna, work on yourself, to change it, and show, how is it, in that moment, I mean, about myself, I never give a fuck, what people think about me, I always, focus, on myself, but about this, when I have, decision, and decided, about who is coming, to be now, world champion, man, I will fucking, thinking about it, if I'm right, or not, right, and this is like, for me, the biggest, biggest thing, if we will be, still quiet, and people will be like, pussy, and will not talk about, like this was wrong, and this was wrong, and shit, I mean, people talk about it, but they are not, exactly honest, they do not, show, and target, the point, which one is it,

you know what I mean, they talk, shit, about it, but not really, not that valuable things, not that valuable things, the other thing, for me, which one you said, is 100% sign up by me, that, charges, especially in final, on, they have to say, the critic, they have to do that, they have to say, this, I just, you know, I came now, to the, this weekend, what's happening, Czech championship, for FCI qualification, yeah, I was just there, one day, with my sparring, sadly, I mean, official training, support, and something, and I met a lot, of Czech people there, and I was, like, just a little bit, sharing with them, and there, two guys said, really funny sentence, to me, like, you are the first, in the world, who lose 11 points, for City in Motion, you understand me, yeah, we know that City is in 5 points, I mean, of course, I lose somewhere, more, yeah, but it's like, it's something for, to thinking about, like, if you watch that, there is like, where they, where did I fucking, lose 11 points, I don't even know, I mean, I mean, especially in the final, which one was, for me, much better, than the normal, in World Cup, where it was, only the same mistake, but, look, I can take it, what, which, what I cannot take it is, it's not only about me, there was a lot of competitors, and I mean, for, especially, the third one, was, for me, even, even, he was even better, than the winner, for me, truly, like, which one was the third, and, he didn't even know, where he lose the points, you know, there is like, this is the shit, you do that, whole year, you bring, a lot of stuff, sacrifices, we prepare the, fucking, half year, for this competition, you prepare, you prepare, from, from much, much more, than a year, or two, or three, or four, you prepare, from day one, you prepare, for it, so, it starts, in first training, but, you don't know, in the end, I mean, it's, isn't it arrogant, at least, this is the littlest, littlest, fucking, word, which one, I can't say now, right, I mean, you stay there, and then, the supervisor, is coming, I want to see, his paper, I want to see, his letters, I want to see, where he is taking, the points, and I will say, now, something fucking loud, who fucking, know today, that, very good high, is nine, or eight and half, man, I still not got it, did, did you get this, really, like, you are super sure, tell me, eight and half, thank you, I think, there is, there are, several, important points, that need to be discussed, and not just, you and me, this needs to be discussed, in, in judges camp, there, it is, a shame, that, even today, 2024, there is, there is, there is a judges camp, but there is not, a competitors committee, yes, man, we need, a competitor, committee, that's selected, by, by competitors, like, okay, we trust, you, Yanni,

to be one of the people, that represents, the competitors, we trust you, Mia, or, or, or, whatever names, we want to put, to represent, and, hopefully, we have, not, the same, type of person, that has, exactly, the same understanding, because, if we all think alike, then, we are stuck, then, then, we cannot, evaluate, exactly, Ivan, listen, you are, training, you are still active, right, you have now, young dog, Tarzan, which one you, have ICP done, so, you are open, for FMDB, 2025, is it true? I hope so, yeah, very cool, how old are you, 43? Let's say, I like 44, cool, and, you are not judged, are you still active? I'm 60. Yes, and tell me now, please, please, how many, judges, are, there, which one, have been, trained as dogs, talking, 15 years ago, I will be nice, not 20, I will be nice, 10 years ago, how, they can judge, today, in 2024, tell me now, please, this is, this is one of, again, another one, from biggest, problem, it's like, now, I believe, that all the judges, internationals, are like, hmm, I really want to, judge, the world championship, one day, I want to do that, I believe, you know, but, I will be probably, in 60, also not helping, world championship, man, right, probably not, I tell you, with the judging, it's a, I know, and I'm sure, you, you must know this, there is times, when a judge, is selected, to judge, a big competition, not because, of any other reason, but because, it's his time, it's like, oh, he's been judging forever, we should, exactly, we should give him, the opportunity, no, this is not a, not a reward, like, it's not like, okay, well, you've judged, and you've spent, so much time, and you should, no, we want the best, and again, if it's a woman, if it's whatever, we want the best, because, it is important, it is, exactly, so important, all this time, and, since I started competing, I've been, that conversation, is not new, to me, and, I have, had, extremely, strong opinions, one side, or the other side, believe it or not, I've been, on, on, on both sides, when it comes to, can a judge, that has never trained, a dog, be a good judge, and, I have went, both ways, if, that judge, is really good, man, who cares, if he has, trial dogs, and if he's competing, next year, with another dog, that's good, but what if not, right, right, right, right, but that's, I think, this is where, we need to, we need to, it's not about age, it's not about this, and it, yeah, I think we, we have to stay, we have to be careful, of, just kind of, how you say, well, we need a woman, and I'm saying, we need the best,

and if this happens, to be five women, Jesus Christ, let's go, yes, exactly, and, if we have, but to give them, not opportunity, it doesn't solve anything, agree, yeah, agree, and, and so, with the judges, I think, it's a, it's a way to say, well, if they haven't, competed in last 15 years, they shouldn't judge, I, I would disagree with this, because, if they can, be good at judging, they don't need to compete, but if they, because when you compete, I mean, you and I compete, we are, we are in this, like, competition, right, right, but then, there is judges, that are really, thinking, and putting time, and trying, the best they can, I'm not saying, they, they don't make mistakes, but they're trying, the best they can, and maybe they haven't, but if we say, well, you haven't, competed in 20 years, so what do you know, and I bet you, some of those judges, will know, more than the majority, of the competitors, because they don't, they don't spend time, to learn the rules, yeah, they had the good eye, 10 years ago, they will have the good eye today, I agree, I agree, but listen, you know, what did I say, it's not about age, it's about nothing, what about, you know, I, as the international helper, have to be, every second year, tested again, right, you understand, so, I haven't been tested, couple of years, because I'm every year, in the highest competition, right, we can plus them, also with world championships, so they do not test me, because they have seen me, in action, but, this is what I'm talking about, I'm in aether, I'm online, I'm still in the action, I'm still on the stage, what about that, which one is, 10 years, no there, no, thinking about, anything, nobody see him, and then he's coming, to the world championship, like, yes, let's do it, come on buddy, he's taking the letters, and reading it today, and come on, I mean, he doesn't need, even read the letters, because, for me, number one, is a feeling, but, the point, which one I want, I'm getting in, is, test, and, if you, as the judge, have to decide, who is going to be, world champion, you need to be tested, before that, and at least, in some competition, so, let's do it like, in April, is the FMBB, in Merch, there is another competition, high one, and because, we want to give him there, he will do judging here, so, that means, that, country, cooperate with FMBB, and they will give there, for, you know, like just, because, this judge, haven't been judging, 10 years, for example, this is just for example, if somebody, like coming back to MMA, and we will not give him, the world champion title, shot, right now, we will test him, with somebody, who is in the half middle, of podium, and then we will see, how much, this is normal, yes, this is normal, yes, for sure, so,

if we test the judges, we give, you know, many years ago, it has been happening, in Czech, and I really love that, they have been doing, with also, with the helpers, we have been there, like 25 helpers, international ones, that's the highest class, and we did test, before, the qualification, and you know, all the championships, and like, before the season, and they gave us numbers, like, third, three, two, and one, the number three, have been done, like, some, little breeds, have second, have been, like, doing some quality, have, the one, have been doing, the biggest, right, all the same, but you know, how many, were, the number one, four, it was, it was only, we were only, four helpers, and we have done, four competitions, we, four, right, isn't it cool, no, it, it makes complete sense, I think it's perfect, so, this time, have, they have doing, this also with judges, do we know, because I, I'm not sure, like, and I wish, that this is something, that, the, judges, committees, or whatever they are, they don't stay so close, but they actually, make it, more public, so we understand, how, selection happens, because I, I honestly don't know, how judges get selected. I don't, I don't know neither, right, I don't know neither, how they do that. And, maybe at some competitions, there is, intentions, that are different, from another competition. Man, and that's not right. That's, that's true, but, listen, does that make sense? They always select the helpers, right? Fuck, man, they even select them, one day before, which is crazy. and I don't like it, but I'm not today, talking about helpers. In the same, listen, who is more important, helper or judge? In my opinion, they are in the same level. Yeah, you can, yeah, I agree with you. 100%. Greg Lair, the same thing. 100%. Greg Lair, the same thing. Every, every single, one matters. who decided somehow, who will be the best. Yes. They are most important. But then we can talk three hours about even like, why do you select the helpers? Yes, because you can, how is possible that the judge is coming there and telling you how you have to do that? You really can have a track layer that knows the flights, just as judges should not, yeah, communicate with scores. Track layer should not know which dogs are coming next. You, you should have no idea who are you laying a track for. Yeah. Let me do my thing. Right. So, one interesting one that Marcus came when I was talking to him, he was like, like you're talking before, how do we select the judges for this event? Super important. But what Marcus brought up was, I think, also a brilliant idea. And this is, okay, when you've done the competition, you need to come back to the judges committee.

and you have to now justify what you saw and how you judged. and I think that's also can be a very important thing. Is it time consuming? Of course it's time consuming. But guess what? people like us are giving the bigger part of their lives to train. So, don't tell me that you cannot come back after a big competition and reevaluate every single judge how they performed and have them justify what they saw. I believe it can be super cool or super fit because it will be even more political. But I, I, I personally, I, I, I personally believe it can really help. And I, I know that it was happening 2000, I believe, 19 in Czech Republic that there was some kind of meetings after all every day that they have some kind of meeting with the judge. I think so. I don't know if this happened ever more, but in this time I was sleeping in the other room beside and I have heard them. So, I know. So, I know. Something like that. Something like that. Like kind of, what to say? Meeting after. You know. Like where you have to prove why and what you have done. Yeah. I'm not saying just like, yeah, meeting, let's shake hands, let's everybody congratulate. we did a good event. No, no, no, no, no. Let's watch performances and tell me. What happened? I do remember these ones. Nice. Maybe, maybe it was just the critic against to them, but, I will open something, which is like very relative. What do you think? You have been watching from US FMBB now, and, um, do you think that from 140 dogs, it's, it's, uh, absolutely, absolutely normal to get in obedience, the biggest points, 93 ones and then twice 91 and that's it. What do you think about it? So, so I have, and again, as I say, man, like, I, I, I, I, just like everybody else, I change my opinions and who knows what my opinion will be five years from now. one of the unfortunate things about this FMBB, and I don't know, like, I don't want to even speculate, but, most of us that were not there, and even the people that are there, I've been in a competition, I know when I'm in a competition, I cannot really pay attention to everything that's going on because I'm laser focused on what I need to do. So, and today, 20, 2024, it's absolutely not acceptable that you cannot replay the videos of the competition. Like, this absolutely cannot happen ever again, and I don't care if it's FCI, FMBB, WSV, whatever the fuck it is, if we have a world championship competition, we must have all videos. Exactly, exactly. you have the right to see that. Right. Yeah. Because, right now, when you ask me this question, you're putting me in a position

that I did not have enough opportunity to give an honest opinion. But listen, stop. Yes. That's why I'm asking you because I want to hear exactly this answer and just to send everybody the message. this is another thing why I'm opening this tema. Right. Because that's the same, like, we don't know the shit about how they select the helpers. We don't know the shit about how they do select the judges. We don't know why there was not the video, so we don't even know why there was 93 only in obedience. Correct. That's why I'm asking you. I am satisfied with the answer. You don't need to say anything. I mean, I have more to talk about this because it's like, shit, I have so much to talk about this. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. It's just like whomever, hopefully, some of the big people that rule are listening and understand the importance of today. We need videos. It's absolutely not acceptable. It's perfect. Video is the only proof. And if you, for whatever reason, there is some animosity between, let's say, Matthias with Working Dog and FMBB and I don't care. Figure it out. Yeah. We don't need to. Whoever. Yeah. Like, like, ultimately, ultimately, think about everybody in the world that wants to learn, get better and train correctly so they can be successful. and, yeah, so the videos are, like, there is no way. Like, if, if this happens one more time, I will be extremely frustrated. Like, I, I mean, I'm, I'm fucked up right now, but, right, this cannot happen. This cannot happen. And again, I don't want to speculate exactly. I've heard quite a few different sides of the stories. Why? And, me, me too. Me too. But, but, it doesn't matter. Ultimately, if you, if you're gonna be accepted to host a championship, a world championship, you need to make sure, yes, you're 100% responsible to have these videos. Imagine, imagine now, is the world championship of ice hockey in Czech Republic happening right now. imagine, like, we cannot watch that. Right. Because, we probably cannot get in. Right. Everybody, yeah? Somebody don't even have the money. So, I think, it will be like a third war. Like, we will burn this fucking television studio, man. I can imagine. I cannot imagine, I cannot watch our team to play ice hockey for championship. Right. and it's only ice hockey. So, I understand your frustration. Yeah? Because, like, for all of us that, and again, I'm, really, like, I know, even, even when I'm in a competition, when I am actually a competitor at the world championship, I still have to go back and watch the videos. Yeah, yeah. I, I, I, I, I, I, we, we rely on this.

This cannot be no more. This cannot be no more. So, this is one thing because we, we cannot dissect, we, we just, yeah, whatever happened. It reminds me, like, 2000, I mean, not 2000, like, in, 90s, you know? Oh, oh, yeah. Over 20 years. There is a competition. 30. A month later, there's gonna be a magazine that's gonna come out with some pictures and maybe some VHS tape. But this time is long gone. We can do way better very easy. The thing is that it's, it's very easy. it's, it's like, I, I would say this is irresponsible at this point if you cannot provide that. Irresponsible. We have been talking about it so many times in our podcasts. I'm just curious, do you think the right people are listening or they just don't give a fuck? What do you think about it? I, I actually, This is one thing we have been talking about because we want to grow our sport. everybody are sharing and spreading the message like we want to grow our sport. And then when is the biggest event, hardest competition happening? We cannot see it even. Yeah. Like people are messaging me what happened. We cannot see that. You know what I mean? And that's the, that's the one, one of the, I'm gonna bring this back again because it's, I, I think it's extremely important. We have to have we have to select people, our competitors, our, our high level competitors that understand the rules that, and I'm not, I, I don't mean all the modern, modern dog sport life. Right, right, right. Not only rules, all about it, all about it. Right. We need to be, we, we, there is no other option. There is really, in my opinion, no other option, but, as long as there is a judges committee, there has to be a competitor committee, and we need to work together. You cannot be told from above. No, this is a discussion. Where do we want the sport to go? What do we want as a, as a complete unit? Judges, helpers, track players, competitors. We are all in, in the same place. Yeah. Once we have competitor committee being part and having some, I, I wouldn't say influence, but having interaction, maybe we get better understanding of what those judges want. Maybe we say, well, what you want is actually quite, this is exactly good. Maybe it's quite unreasonable. Can you repeat that again? What the judges want. Right. That's it. Right. this is another thing, man. My name is Yanni, and I don't know what the judges want. Yeah. Because there is a big thing, and I'm really saying my experience right now, two weeks ago, from the protection, for example, just, okay? I would say more, but protection. I lost three points of where my referee is in the guarding position, because the judge said he should be direct of the helper. Right. Now, I will tell you my opinion. There is no in the rules

saying that the dog has to be in front of the helper. There is saying that the dog has to guard the helper. So, that's not true. One point. Second point, who say that he is not direct to the helper? He is exactly direct to the helper, because he is barking to him. Okay? That's another thing. And third point, did I know that? That this is not possible? That's actually the most important part. Like, the other two... You go there with something doubting, and some people tell you this, and some people tell you this. We have been talking about it one year ago in Czech Republic, and we talked with really high position judges like Martin Peixia and those guys, and I asked him, listen, what do you prefer in barking? What is the right position? And he said, there is no right position. There is, there is only, most important, where the dog barks. So if the dog is on the middle or here, and he barks to the helper, he guards the helper, it's correct, because there is no touching, it's interval, it's dominant, it's frequently, it's a rhythm, and that's it. There is enough pressure and no touch. Excellent. No talking about it, no discussion. Right. I'm sick about this, you know? Yeah, I, I, man, I understand your frustration. Who, how do we unpack this? It's like, you don't know when you go there, fight, and, no, no, no, trust me, I, I fucking, like I, like I, I, I, I understand your frustration. I know. Now, we've trained and we will train together. Yeah. That's who we are. And we, like, we train a little different in this part of things, right? I like my dog this way, you like your dog this way. And these are, in a way, that's the beauty of, hey, there are many ways to create the best picture, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because I train different, I can see how a judge can talk something, but you, I cannot say explicitly how correct correct you are because if a judge or, or not a judge, I, this is actually not a problem of one competition, this is a problem of global, this is a global problem fucking 10 years ago. exactly. If you, as a judge, as a, as a, the governing body of all judges, if you have failed to explicitly educate and make a point what you like and what you don't like, what you want from us, but then judge it, that's fucked up. Yeah. That's fucked up. like, man, that's not fair. Oh, this is like a fucking lottery. Right. Does this judge like this guarding or what about it? You know, I have been, I have been competing in the competition where this kind of guarding was for the judge excellent. Right. How this is possible? Right. The judge in the end on this competition came to me, he shake my hand and tell me, man, if you can, if you can fix this guarding, it can be for 100. Yeah. And I told him, I did it for purpose because I like it. Yes. And he said, and that's okay. Right. But I would answer

him immediately, but it's not okay. I didn't know you don't like it. Right. So, man, I love our conversation and I am, like I would be the same like that judge. I would say, Yanni, man, if you have the dog guard differently, you have 100. for me, but this is individual thing. This is interpretation and this is the problem why if you are not saying, like if you don't tell us what is, what you want to see and we are training for something and one judge gives you amazing score and another one doesn't, this is not a problem of training because we are trying to make the best, the best performances we can as competitors and, and, um, I, I see it as a, as I see it as a big failure in the judging and, and not the judging itself, but, uh, the, um, not, not allowing the competitors to know, like if I, if I compete, I want to know what I can prepare for. You have to know. You have to know. You have to know. if this is universally accepted and, well, this is not the right way or this is what we are looking for, then, then it's super easy, right? Yes, but that's why I'm saying pass the judge. It's not only about how knowledge he is today, but it's about to make sure you don't fuck up this, you don't fuck up that. You understand me? The other thing is from tracking. We'll tell you another example now. One thing which one I want to say is that in this world championship, it was an easy track. It was very difficult. I mean, I haven't ever seen this kind of terrain, ever. I even thought it's possible to track in this kind of terrain, but I want to really give big, big respect bottom of my heart to the track players, because I have seen also not only track, I have seen how they did the tracks, and they have my biggest respect, and as much they give the opportunity to dogs to make the track, that's unbelievable, unbelievable, nobody can imagine. Those track layers have been doing their everything for us, so thank you very much to them that it was possible to track in that. And that's so important, man, because you and I understand very well how a track layer, not just one track layer, can change completely the outcome of the competition, just like that. Exactly, just like that. Track layer is track layer, the helper, and the judge are the three guys who makes everything. Yeah. That's it. There is no discussion. Sometimes we think, oh, well, track layers, who wants to volunteer, and whatever. it's like, no, no, no, this is fucking serious, extremely serious position. They did there, man. I cannot imagine. And I think we are, like, you're bringing a really good point. I think we, and I appreciate that you're bringing it up, and I really believe that we

need to be more loud, more vocal about acknowledging the effort and the knowledge of track layers and appreciation, just as you pointed out, because it really, really, really matters. This is not a, this is not like, oh, who wants to be a track layer? Fucking no. Yeah, somebody walking on the street, hey, do you want to be a track layer? Let's go. Make this shape, and come on. Yeah. Exactly. But, another point about tracking in this world championship, there was really a really sympathetic old guy from Italy. I, I think it was named Barbarossa, I believe, and maybe, I hope I'm correct, but I really respect also this judge, because he was, he was, he was doing judgment about feeling, it was very obvious, and even for him, I mean, all what the track layers did, the tracker, the judge need to walk. It's important to say, and to realize that the judge, if he want to see, really, he need to go with you, 140 times. so, this man, I do not dare to say his age, but I believe he's over, even 70, I believe that, and he was doing great. I mean, what is my point? For example, that, uh, Repi did really excellent track, and I was going to the track, like, with the, hold, okay, man, show me, show me what you can do. It's all about you, and, well, we will have experience, let's go, and, when he started to track, after 40, 40, 50 meters, was just the corridor, where, was the, the grass, like, closed, and, I just see, he has opportunity to cross it under, and open that grass, or just go around, and, when I saw my dog, he was going through, and, then, five steps, after that, was article, I was just saying, like, mother fucker, what is this happening, you know, it's like, come on, where we are, we are in some fucking jungle, and, where is going to be happening? Well, corridors with water, normal, all competitions, have something, you know what I mean? But this competition, has really, something special, challenge, something special, challenge, in a special way, yeah, yeah, yeah, and, I want to say, that the judge, in the end, told, like, like, very shortly, critic, he said, that's another thing, right, he is speaking Italian, he doesn't speak English, which is really okay, if we have a good translator, it's alright, yeah, but, for me, it was like this, Repi did only, one mistake, after the corridor, he, passed that, very continuously, where, where you cannot take the point, but after that, he did like, once, I would say, one step left, with hat, he checked, and he came back, and, he didn't make any, any more mistakes, I do remember, that I was going, to the last article, and, I need to walk,

and, because I'm, entering him, from left side, I need to, because he was, lying, in the, lying on the, on the, on the article, behind, and beside, of this part, was like, dead grass, and, and, I need to, cross that, yes, and I was like, fuck man, now, tactic, exactly, exactly, because, what, yes, so, basically, I was like, stepping, on that grass, beside of him, and now, like, what is gonna happen, and he didn't react, I really appreciate, rougher's attitude, and, I was sure, he must, give me, give me 99 points, man, and then, I go to the judge, and he said, like, complimenting, and he said, something like, well, that was saying, the translator, and he said, a little bit details, about the leash, 96, that's, all, what that I got, you understand me, this is all, so, basically, little bit details, about leash, what does it mean, what are you telling me, like, like, what are you telling me, I later, thought about it, and I was like, okay, so, Rappi is going, literally, with slack leash, you know, you have seen, yeah, yeah, he's not tight, at all, and for everybody, that hasn't seen, like, I've watched, you guys, trained forever, all the time, so, like, like, as far as, understanding, and ethic, about tracking, like, Rappi, really, understands it, and enjoys it, at the same time, like, it's, there is no, like, when you are talking, to me, about, your track, I, I have the, advantage of, knowing, what you're training, and what the dog, is capable of, so, so, it's very different, for everybody, to listen to, yeah, yeah, that is, that is important, to realize, that there is dogs, which one go, like, really super tight, leash, little bit tight, or, completely slack, which looks like, that I'm going, with the leash, like this, I, I do that, for purpose, because, first at all, I want, the judge, see, that it's really, 10 meters, yes, second thing, which one, is like, kind of, fair play, thing, my tracking, leash, has 11 meters, 10 meters, hmm, you know why, you already know why, right, tell me, tell me, because, it's like that, judge, can say, it's not 10 meters, I like that, but, I would say, if they can, please, take my leash, and count it, I would say, I'm even more far, of him, you understand, but, that judge, of course, have no idea, about it, he thought, it's 10 meters, so, if the leash, is like this, right, it's not 10 meters, right, sometimes, because, for example, when he takes, corner direct, straight, without checking, there is a moment, which one, we can count, and be tricky, there is no 10 meters, but, I, can prove, that that leash, is even longer, and purposely, purposely, is it correct, or not, I don't even know, is it, correct, that my dog, is going on slack leash, without any attitude, from me, without any help, is it correct, we don't know, the shit about it, right,

and the judge, in Italian language, said, I, love your track, basically, but there is little details, about leash, so, what, details about leash, I do remember, after first article, I said, track, and, don't know, how this happened, because this, this really, I cannot act, this in, in the training, rapid, did stand up, and he took, that leash, over, his tail, and he, dragged with tail, like this, so, the leash, was like, twice, around his tail, man, yes, basically, second, corners, like, like, after first article, until, third line, up, until, second article, where I did, mark the article, and then, I touched him, and, did the leash, off his tail, you understand, yeah, and, was this mistake, I don't know, because nobody told me, in the other hand, if this was mistake, it's for me, sorry, totally bullshit, it's totally bullshit, because, he had the leash, on his tail, but by himself, and, I mean, everybody, can see, on that track, that it doesn't matter, against him, right, it doesn't, affect him, at all, so, was this the mistake, or was the mistake, that the leash, was slack, I don't know, but, man, you know, you said, if Rippy, did sit in motion, it's game over, well, if I got 99 in track, it's also game over, yes, you know, you know what I mean, yes, you know what is, playing devil's advocate, and basically, yeah, challenging you, even if I agree with you, but challenging your thoughts, right, and, so, with the, again, if you had the sit, man, done deal, no question, now, if I am a judge, and I, again, this, this is the problem, we have, this is the problem, we have, because we, we have to understand, like if, like if the leash, has to be 10 meters, and we go to the check, of the line, and it shows, that it's shorter, it's not good, but it shows, that it's longer, and it's good, or is it not good, you have to, you have to decide, and when you leave it, to a judge, the judge is assuming, that the line, is 10 meters, right, because, he's relying on the people, that are counting, and this is a, this is a big failure, of, of, communication, and following the rules, and, you cannot focus, like is it okay, or is it not okay, let us know, let us know, right, um, like when I'm thinking, first off, 96 points, is, incredible, can it be more, can it be less, who knows, yeah, right, 100%, if I'm judging, and I see something, with a line, then I have that picture, what if, what if the next guy, does exactly the same, but doesn't have the problem, with the line, is it the same, is the dog, influenced, by the line, or is it not,

influenced by the line, and that's the, ultimately, that's the big, that, that comes from, the experience, of the judge, to, to, to make that decision, now, I believe, there was a, what was it, a 98, or a 99, in tracking, right, like the best track, yeah, 97, okay, again, we, we just don't know, like, like, have the videos, like, let, man, I, I would say, I respect this judge, very much, in that moment, I was basically, one of the first track, because, I did track first day, I guess, in, fourth, or fifth group, so, my track, was basically, 15, yeah, yeah, yeah, which is like, that, still, it's the first day, and you know how it is, if you do something, first day, you fucked up, yes, so, I was, I was stuck, why, but, lately, I, I was just, literally, thinking about, and I don't want to say, anything against, the judge, I am just, a little bit, disappointed, about the translation, and to know, what was, exactly wrong, because, in the end, it's a game changer, yes, yeah, as the guarding, as this, so, like, I cannot agree, with you more, and, that's it, hopefully, the right people, are listening, to the conversation, and, and, it's a fucking, world championship, there needs to be, translating, what he's saying, exactly, and tell me the reason, and then we can, double check, but, because it, it really matters, it really, really matters, it matters, exactly, it matters, it's, it's like, but man, this is the same, what I said, on the beginning, of our conversation, it is like, somebody is walking, against to me, I mean, Rippy was already, in the grass, and I was after him, and I said, how much did you got, and he, 91, and he was so satisfied, and I, I said like, do you know, where did you lose, 9 tons, and he, I don't give a shit, I'm happy, for 91, one, I don't know, and I'm saying, I would love to know, for what, we, you, yes, if you, if you want to be better, you need to know, what you need to change, this is, just as simple as that, period, no question about it, you cannot swim, in the ball, no question about it, they, like, you know, I'm, I do, ring sports, and, there is something, very beautiful, about, ring sport, you have, the dog comes on the field, the, the judge, really has a timer, he has a chronometer, it's like, okay, no, it's really, two seconds, too late, to let go, but, besides that, yes, but besides that, what happens, as soon, as the critique is given, the score sheet, of that judge, it's posted, it's put on the fence, like, like, truly, on the fence, for everybody, the people that understand the rules, and the people that don't understand the rules, for everybody, to see, which exercise,

how many points, got deducted, and how many points, the dog got, I love that, easy, easy, yeah, and that is, that is exactly, giving, giving the, strict rules, dog does or not, he does this or not, ciao, in our IGP, is, how, he does, right, also, right, and that's, that's the game changer, not only he does, but how, he does, and do we know, how, how it should look like, the excellent exercise, please, do today, example, visual, where it is, excellent, express, and explain, exactly, point by point, because, I will tell you now, one thing, why repeat didn't sit, it's only my fault, because, I was in the end, so much, so much focused, for really details, and, I did, in the sit emotion, super mistake, like, I wanted to have it for 100, yes, and I lost the exercise, that's the game, right, and I was, so, right, I was, I was so exciting, and so, extremely focused, for, just, that 10 steps, before, I give command, say, that he is walking, like he has to, because, I know it from my knowledge, from experience, past, that there was so much, charging, how the dog walk, before that, and he basically, did, what did I teach him, the last trainings, he was with me, yeah, perfectly, but he doesn't, act, completely react, that I have, still hand beside of him, and I ask him to sit, because normally, when I call him sit, my hand is going inside, and all the stops, and I just, didn't realize that, and it takes me time, time, of course, and it was really short time, even until the final, to realize, what is the problem, and then I got it, and I did after, three, four days, I was at home, before he gets really, super sick, just for, just for fun, in my garden, with the hand inside, and he did it, without any pressure, any help, he did it perfectly, and I was like, fuck me, why didn't I know that, you know, so it was only my fault, it's all clear, that's what, there I am, there is no question, but tell me why, I didn't know, that, I didn't know that, and I'm talking about myself, but ask the 140, other competitors, they go home, after three, four years, they train, they finally get in, and they go home, and they don't know the shit, right, and then, you know, what is the problem, next year, will be there, another problem, another judge, which won't prefer that, yes, so what we are talking about, exactly, the football, the inconsistency, rules, yes, yes, yes, and, and, and no, man, this is just, this is amazing conversation, I don't know if we need to, make like, two separate podcasts, and keep going on this, because it's so, so, so, fucking important, I, I want to sidestep, for a moment, because, you're going to laugh at this, just to kind of, relax a little bit, both of us, so, in the last, two weeks, Tarzan, all of a sudden, I say sit, and he just, with his eyes,

like, what, I'm like, what the fuck, man, like, literally, like, what, like, and then, I, I've been, like, up to right, this moment, my sit, out of motion, has a big question mark, and, and, that's how, training is, this is the beauty, of, of us, training dogs, right, finding, I wasn't angry, one second, one second, and I, man, I, I just keep going back, to, having a, competitors, committee, that it's, part of everything, because, as, competitors, if, you, you, the judges, are failing, to explain, what, is that, we need to do, that's, your problem, that's not, our problem, and, the IGP rules, at this moment, are kind of, like the, Bible, you can, interpret it, in so many ways, and they're, all can be correct, or not correct, right, yeah, we, we have, to come together, and, and agree, what do we want, what do we want, because, it's a world class, championship, it should be like that, yeah, because we, at least, a big majority, of the trainers, you have a puppy, and you're training, and you're training, and you're thinking, this is, I'm doing, the best, but then, it, happens, that it's, not what, the, the, the new, tendency, the new evolution, is, but, we don't know, yeah man, but listen, you know those, you know those guys, which one, shows, man like, I see, everybody asking me, before the world championship, who, who can beat you, you know, right, and I'm answering, very, very simply, I don't know, I am not caring about it, I am focused, only on myself, I don't care, and then, and then I will tell you, when I was not competing, I was thinking that, I am, of course, normally, naturally, interesting, and I saw guys, and I saw them on videos, and I said, fuck, they are dangerous, look at them, I'm curious on the stage, then on the stage, you show, show them, and I, you are not, I'm like, talking about myself, I'm not agreeing with the judging, and I'm meeting them, and I'm like, asking them, what happened, what, why, why, and they are answering me, pick, pick, answer, like, stupid shit sentence, like, I don't know, we don't know what happened, why, the judge doesn't like this, because, in my opinion, like, 34 year guy, it looks awesome, so, please, tell me, where is the problem, I know where is the fucking problem, we, nobody, knows, what is, perfect, and excellent, where, the rules are clear, so, if we talk about, to make it fair play, we have to first make it, that, all fucking world, understand, this is not allowed, and this is allowed, and those details, I have read those rules, I swear to God, I have read them, many, many times, and especially now, after FMVB, actually, I have read them three times, and there is, so many points, not saying, and especially, those details, like,

if the dog, did, for example, super quickly, and focused, and then, the guy, did mistake, on the command, for example, it's the same points, losing, or like, when the dog, dragged on the slack leash, or tight leash, what does this different, or in the guarding, if the dog is front, of the helper, or side of the sleeve, there is no thing, about that, any bullshit, what is really, quickly, leaked down, in foran, in send out, with down, what, how long, the dog has really, go down, how does it really, look like, because I thought, Repi does pretty good, but the judge said, he can be even faster, and he took me, half point, okay, let's talk now, about not how this happened, but about the future, right, so, make it clear, guys, because we do, fucking everything, to make you, judges, satisfied, it's not easy, man, it's not easy, because we have to, I know, because, if you, know what to train, if you know, what they want to see, you will make it happen, or you can do the best, or you can do the best, you can, to make it happen, if I know, what they want, I will make the best, to know, what they want, now, Ivan, do you remember, what you say, about that favor, friend by friend, yes, yes, yes, yes, isn't it similar, the competitor, is going there, and he knows, exactly, what the judge like it, right, do we want, do we want, message today, like, okay, Harry Archon, is on protection, hey man, do you remember me, with my old dog, you like him, do you, do you like, this kind of guarding, can you tell me now, do you want me to do that, right, or what do you want, me to do that, right, or do I have to, not do it as I did, and then be just like, watching him, and saying like, what do you mean, right, and the, so what is correct, exactly, so, like, my opinion, is, again, there is a big disconnect, between, competitors, putting, extreme amount, and effort, of training something, and, the judges, already have, changed, what they want to see, but the competitors, don't want that, and, now we are in a world championship, and you're like, well, that's not good, well, why do you need, to tell me, in a world championship, that's not, why, why can we not, agree, what is good, and what is not good, so we know, what to train for, yeah, we need to know, what to train for, at the same time, we, we all have different, just like, again, with, martial arts, you know, like, I, I like sambo, you know, it's sambo, is my thing, and somebody, likes muay thai, and whatever, but, when we, when we're, when we know, what, even, even when, the program is evolving, and we're looking into something, better, because, I tell you what, like, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, and the further down you go, the training is, progressively, not as good, right, we didn't know,

the world championship, is not the place, to, say, as a judge, what, is not, preferable, that's not the right place, that's not the right place, because, it's not fair, to, somebody, that, trains, all the time, and, and, you can, as a judge, you can have the argument, and say, well, it's in the rule book, no, the rule book is, really, quite, left, for interpretation, it's, man, it's, it's a question, Ivan, it's a question, like, what motivates, those, to, change it, not us, because, we are not, in the coming, you know, what I mean, right, what, what will motivate them, is it the, truly mind, to be, to be really, true, truly, judging, or, is it like, money, which, obviously, are so little, right, because, if I will be, like, today, in my, all the business, and all the business partners, and all the things, which I'm doing, in my life, like, my lifestyle, and if I have to be, now, the guy, which one will spend the time, all my fucking time, to do that, for me, in that moment, it will change, the schedule, is just busy, exactly, and, for what I am going, to do that, am I doing that for money, am I doing that, for people, am I doing that, for myself, do I want to be, special, what is the motivation, for those guys, that's what I'm asking myself, all the time now, like, why you are judging, tell me, the answer, do judging, because you want to be important, or you want to be fair, or you get a lot of money, of that, you doing that for legacy, or you doing that for money, tell me, tell me now, that's for me, the game changer, if you do that for legacy, super cool, if you do that for money, you have to get good money, because, the more money you got, the better you will be, that's it, it's like, if you do that for free, and, and almost for free, which is really common, in our sport, to be honest, there needs to be, another spirit, and the spirit, I'm not sure, everybody have, yeah, so, the number one spirit, is like, I, I, I wanna, I wanna grow, every, simply shit, in this sport, I wanna bring, something, which will, go, and, people will talk about it, 10 years, 20, 30 years after, I just don't know, if it be part of the game, I wanna take over, I wanna be, here, the best, yeah, and I don't care, how much they will pay me, that's number one, how many of them, think like that, yeah, yeah, it's about, it's a question, it's like, uh, let's say, we will change the people, and they will be, one year good, and then second year, they start to be like, hmm, but you know, I better maybe, go to the holiday, and they start to be boring, you know how it is, not always, you doing something, which one you want to do, that's normal, right, but, but, I'm saying, to be honest, I'm not really afraid, to say that, if I have a good motivation, I will do that, because it worked,

it worked me to do that, it's like work, it's like business, it's like, I mean, this is completely natural, people are doing, something for something, yes, there is only one of hundred, one of hundred, stupid guy, which one will do that, all the time, because he just like it, but 99% of that, they will be there, only because, they need to be, yes, and we don't need to, that 99 people, we need only that guy, I, of course, I am, you know, not that I, I read social media, and I know what's happening, and whatever, and I know Arnold, had that question, he was like, well, it could be 5% higher scores, or, or something like that, right, in, in obedience, or just overall, like we, we don't need to be so hard, and, I totally understand, why we don't need to be, we, we, you know, we don't need to kill people, we don't need to kill people, but there is the other side, that I've been, many times, experienced that, like, as a competitor, and this is the part where, I would get, 96 points, and another competitor gets 94 points, and basically, it's two points difference, but it's really, from my understanding, to make the 96, and compare the 94 points, it's a very, very different performance, it's like, it's very different categories, so, I understand the danger, of, well, let's give more points, and then it becomes, like, the other competitions, and, and you know, many competitions, I'm sure, where everybody gets 95s, and 96s, and 95s, and 96s, and you cannot really see, because, because of the judging, you cannot really see, how, different, how much more effort, it is, to make the 96, and the 94, the two points, difference, is very, misleading, for people, to think, that it's the same work, oh, it's just two points, I was very close, to, to kicking his ass, no, you are not, yeah, so, there is this, you know, like, I understand, both sides of this, and, man, it's not about number, it's not about number, you can win, with three times 90, right, that's not the problem, that's not the problem, and, if there is some, another, community, which one is doing, this for purpose, which one is giving, to the, competitors, super high points, because they want, to take them, on, those, like, their sides, that's wrong, it's not about number, you know, it's about, truly, explain, why, this guy, got that, yes, yes, that's all, this is the big problem, it comes down to, to, really, it comes down to, education, it comes down to, agreeing, what all of us, are trying to accomplish, and what is okay, and what is not okay, we have like, we are, man,

we are like fucking fishes, you know, we are swimming in the sea, and we don't know, what, what time, of the day, some bigger fish, will eat us, you know, it's like we trying, we trying, all the time, we trying, there is nobody, who can say, I'm fucking sure, I will, I will, I will get this exam, and that's why, you also make the mistake, then in the training, because it affects you, yeah, that is like, oh, here is this judge, from this country, and you will speak, but oh my, my God, what, this guy doesn't like that, and now, because of this judge, you, you always have opportunity, I mean, it's like about you, how much you, stay behind, of your, system, right, but, you have opportunity, three months before, to change it, right, and then, and then, then you kick your ass out, or you make it happen, or you don't know, gee, I cannot imagine, I have been doing, so many other sports, this is not, possible there, that is still the same, you fucking, give the goal, or not, you make the foul, or not, and then, we can talk, and discuss about, little details, how much was it hard, or something, but in our sport, we are still, swimming in the hot water, which one, nobody know how to swim, we, what we are failing to do, is, come to an agreement, where we want to go, with this sport, hmm, for sure, we don't want to, we, for sure, we don't want to go back, to what it looked like, 30 years ago, there's, I, I highly doubt, that anybody, would disagree with that, I know many, which one agree with that, maybe, maybe, I, maybe in protection, that, this different, is because, you are in USA, and I like it, it's much more modern, man, much more modern, we, we all have, our own, way of training, our own, understanding, our own flavor, of what we like, what we don't like, and that's very cool, right, when, that's really, that's the only way, that we can progress, and, and take good pieces, from everybody, and evolve, right, this is, this is very important, that we don't do, the same, what, what becomes, the problem again, that starts to be, I think, clear, from our conversation, is, again, that disconnect, of, what do you want, to see, and you can, as a judge, you can argue, well, the rule is clear, well, the rule, obviously, it's not being clear enough, if we are, still, in this problem, exactly, let's sort it out, what do we want, we know, we don't want, a dog to be stressed, we don't want, the dog to be, under pressure, but we also know, that in our sport, there is some, element of pressure, and, if you are, able to, train, properly, this actually, is very healthy, it's very, it's a, a very good thing, it's not a bad thing, now, going back, to why, all the dogs, have such a low, scores, I cannot really, say, simply, because there is no videos,

and that's a big problem, again, yes, but, let me tell you, once and, listen, you will getting better, than, about this, look, you, you have, always, opportunity, as a judge, which one, have experience, to, let's say, healing, okay, healing, for me, is one of the, really, pink, day sleeping, it's a, fucking, super, super, super, important, and, healing, and, and the, relationship, with my dog, is basically, like, first, what I'm, teaching, a small puppy, and everything, I don't know, if I, I don't care, maybe he, in one year, he doesn't know, what is the, sitting emotion, he doesn't know, what is done, but he knows, what is the, heal with me, there's a, cooperation, and there is, always the attitude, and, the judge, has, many opportunities, in the healing, to, charge you, corners, style, of the healing, we, we, we know, I will not talk about it, we know, do we know, we, we, well, yeah, I mean, do, do, listen, do we know, right, that's the question, I will now say, 10 points, where you can charge, maybe I'm not enough, maybe I'm wrong, I don't even know, what is basically, excellent healing, Ivan, today, right, I swear to God, and what, what I want, I want to tell you, like, to help you to, give a lot of thoughts, because you are the master, hmm, if we don't know, what is excellent healing, man, we are, game over, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, because healing, is fucking basic, of obedience, yeah, okay, so if you talk about, not pressure, and pressure, what kind of pressure, how does it behave, what is the attitude, there is million, spectacular points, which one was not saying, so I don't even know, what is excellent healing today, I'm so sorry, but I only know, that in FMVB, 2024, wasn't, one excellent healing, that's what I want, to tell you, this is where, it gets, really interesting, and this is where, we need to, everybody needs, to come, and talk, and decide, what we want, because of the, inconsistency, of if some, sometimes you say, well this is excellent, and sometimes you say, no this is, not even very good, it's good, it's like, why, we have these two things, you as judges, are having a big problem, that affects, everybody, that is training, right, and, first thing, is you need to come, to a decision, what it is, that we're looking for, don't tell me, that the rules, are clear, maybe, that's the best, complaining, yeah, maybe the rules, yeah, maybe the rules, are clear, but, that's not true, at the same time, clearly, everybody, is lost, of what you want, they will always, blame on it, that the rules, are clear, yeah, you know what I mean, that's the only thing, they can blame on it, not everybody, but there is different, different ways, of training, and, man, it's not easy, we are talking now, about, it's absolutely not easy, it's absolutely not easy, but,

of our sport, we are opening, the dangerous temas, and, I understand, and, you know, those things, about, what is clear, and what is not clear, it's, it's so obvious, because, we, man, like you, me, and all hundred, thousand, million people, who are competitors, don't, know, right, right, we are the proof, right, that it's not clear, and, and, and what ends up happening, is, competitors, and trainers, are, training, thinking that, that's, the, the, the, the ultimate, thing, and then, there is a surprise, and it's like, no, you don't need to surprise me, you need to tell me, what we need to train for, yeah, and on top of that, is, again, like, you as judges, you can say, well, that's what we're looking for, but you, must, there is no other option, you must consult, with the, competitors, and we need to, combine, our, efforts, to decide, what we want to accomplish, I think, yeah, actually, not, I think, I, I, I'm pretty sure, you know, yeah, I mean, let's say, I will speculate here, but, there is the thing, about, and this is a very, tricky, very difficult one, and, to, decide, as a judge, when you're watching, a performance, what is the dog doing, is it all, kind of, fake, is it, the dog just doing things, but not even understanding, why, is there, actual, interaction, or, or is it, I'm just doing, a certain behavior, that looks, that should be rewarded, it, this is such a difficult, situation, because, what is IGP, we can even, go this far, this deep, is IGP, a sport, or is it, also a selection, me, as a breeder, I like, the selection part, if possible, at all, and I don't know, if that's even possible, at this point, because training is so, you know, I mean, we have so many ways, to train, I will give you, a example, of, there is a, there is a dog, it was last year, Malinois Nationals, in the States, her name is, Tricia Harper, and she has a dog, and it was, I don't want to, said, I think it was injured, something, that he couldn't, compete anymore, but, the dog, ended up, being, like, a second dog, for a bunch, of obedience dogs, just so, we don't do, round robin, and this kind of stuff, yeah, and, that dog, I, and I haven't talked to her, and, you know, she, she, I know her, we, we talk, but I've never really, addressed it, which I, I want to, and I should, that dog, man, did, a retrieve,

after retrieve, after retrieve, like, I don't know how many times, she was the, the dog in white, the dummy dog, without, any rewards, and those retrieves, were, absolutely, insanely beautiful, like, that dog, just goes, lightning fast, grabs the dumbbells, turns around, and presents it, and when he outs, he's not like, okay, where is my toy, it's just like this, like, you know, that whatever he made, in his mind, or whenever the genetics, of that dog are, he can do this, but many, of us, need to, actually see, how we can, twitch the training, to, make that picture, the same, and here is the real, again, speaking, from a breeder perspective, and I think, this is, really, far fetch, maybe, impossible thing, but, when you see, a dog, that can make, one, or, or, three retrieves, but there is, this very high maintenance, to accomplish it, right, and then you have, that dog, that, like, Trisha's dog, they're just, it's genetically, this is what I do, like, you cannot, make him do it, any other way, it's like, what the fuck, are you doing, I think, where, where I'm going, with this, is that, our sport, or, whatever we want, to call this, IGP thing, there is also, that decision, or that thing, to be made, like, okay, are we, are we, as judges, and competitors, what are we trying, to demonstrate, are we trying, to demonstrate, the raw abilities, of the dog, as, raw qualities, right, or, qualities, combined, with training, or, really, training, purely training, training, you know, what I'm saying, yes, of course, and, this is where, it gets very, interesting, and, how, how do you, like, I, I, I truly, don't have an answer, to this, but I see it, both ways, I will tell you, I will tell you, Ivan, this is the same answer, as I told you, about, like, who is judging, today, and before 10 years, I truly, believe, that, like, one, former champion, in May, is going, today, command, the UFC fight, and sitting there, and command that, it's perfect, that he command that, because, he cannot do, fight anymore, and he just, get out of this, in dog sport, it's the same for me, absolutely, same line, if, we talk about, who is deciding, who, and, gonna be the judge, who, gonna be the helper, and, it should be modern, people, and, I'm saying, again, it's not about age, but, I'm saying, about the, actual people, which one are, in the other, which one are now, active, simply, just active, okay, and, we can talk, the same level, we can talk, about the same things, the motivation, is the second, most important, why, would they do that, because, I have the, I don't even know, if I want to say, honor, but, I had the, privilege, to talk with, the really, high, possible, positions,

people, which one, talk about that, like, you know, I'm tired, Danny, I'm in this position, and, I don't want, I don't know, if I want to be, next year, in this position, you know, he is talking like that, Kurva, the passion, the passion, is not there anymore, if, if, if you're talking about, like, it's all right, don't be afraid, to make things wrong, and say, I can't, we will change you, that's all right, does your ego, say another thing, that man, that's not right, okay, right, that's not right, all the people, about, the, the core, of this sport, needs to be, actual, needs to be, actual, and active, and modern, and all, they have to be, on the same level, everybody, will tell you, from all the sports, there can be, 100 players, in one team, 10 players, in the team, if there is, one bullshit, it will destroy, the whole team, it needs to be, one, same core, there is the, reason, there is the reason, why we do that, and, if public, is shut up, nothing will change, public speaking, on the stadium, does it matter, it doesn't affect them, man, I can tell you, after, after, after last, production of this, FMVB, there was a, homebook, and big, big hyper, like I haven't been, ever, experienced that, it doesn't affect them, people need to talk after, people need to make, those things, which one, we are doing now, and more and more, the more, the better one, and with science, like, we want revolution, we want to do it, well, then, there cannot be person, which one is, basically, there, because he needs to be there, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, see, I don't think, like, I, I grew up in communist thing, and revolution, it sounds very, like, I'm against that, but I, I, but I know what you're saying, we do need to come, we need to, agree, upgrade, what do we want to do, we need to upgrade, that, you know, going back to my dumbbell, example, and hopefully, I don't know, like, I mean, I, I wish that, this is not just you and me, I wish that, the whole IGP community, thinks about this, because there is this good, two sides, and I don't know which side, I, I truly don't know which side to take, as a breeder, I want to take the dog, that naturally, just goes, poop, poop, but then, there is the training, and, yeah, I don't have, Trisha's dog, I need to make, get much, what that dog does, if a judge is, capable, to see, and say, well, this is natural, this is like, genetic, this is baked in the DNA, this is who that dog is, this is what we want, but this is training, right, but this is training, and I clearly can see, that this is training, because, yes, he's going fast, but, the pickup, the presentation, like, there is things, that tell me, and, I like to believe, that I can, I like to believe, separate, separate most of the dogs, of what is natural,

and what is trained, and I think, you can do the same, I will stop you now, I will stop you now, yeah, listen, listen, can you repeat, the last sentence, say it again, that you are able, to separate those, which one are natural, and which one, are not, yes, yes, perfect, yes, perfect, by the way, isn't it, the world championship, of the breeds, to bring, also better breeds, in my opinion, it has to be, it has to be, perfect, and now listen, maybe, of this, podcast, I will be calling, like, king of the, preferring the women's, judges, but, I don't care, I would say it, one more time, I have been, how to say, like, like, yeah, I was there just, and, that was a woman, of the judge, and, I would say it again, she has the balls, and she, said, on the dumbbells, that, she doesn't care, that this, kind of dog, is doing, kind of sound, before he start, to go pick the dumbbell, because, all the things about, is absolutely insane, and she has, hasn't seen that, in her life, and that, kind of, judge is from, German Shepherd, by the way, and it means, a lot, because, this person, can be even more, interesting, to be judged, kind of, like, okay, so, sound, here is, here is, I don't even know, step past, little touch, something, basically, we are on 13, from 15, good, you know, and all the basic, and all the most important, core, the judge, just, he's blind, he's just judging, as a computer, okay, this wasn't, like, in the rules, which one, I know, and nobody knows, this wasn't like that, so, I have to, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, the feeling, is out, the feeling, the object, the general feeling, of the exercise, is completely out, so, we cannot even talk, about, in the end, that the winner, is the best, talk, which is, basically, it was, not today anymore, but it was, in the past, the goal, wasn't it, we want that, find, and select, the dogs, which one, have that, today, we have no punch, with the, well, again, we have no courage, that, we have, like, super, super shitty, rules, for that, so, how do we, can select, really, the real one, correct, and, in the obedience, sorry man, but, in healing, in a more, in positions, you, can do, really, really, game changer, by training, but, in dumbbell, there you see, a lot of genity, there is a lot, of genity, like, like, simply, I would say, like, my opinion, about, like, only, like, the picking, and the holding, it, must be, very, very, visible, and, and, for the judge, so clear, if it is natural, or training, and, this judge, this woman, she, was, like, first, after, really, seven, eight years, when I am, like, competing, which one said, I don't care, that dog was found, I care of what he is doing after, because this, I haven't seen in my life, and that's it, you know, that's all, and in the end, if she's taking, like, for that boost, half point, it's very,

very, all right, but, if the judge is coming there, and he's taking, for that one, and half, out of two points, because it should be, not in the rules, fuck you, right, right, that's not correct, believe me, if, if, if I want you, it's so confusing, it's not, this is not easy conversation, if I want to be, fucking you up, you always find out, you always find out, that this is not the reason, why you are there, you don't have to go, to be judged, in world championship, and fuck you up, no, I, I hope, this is not why, you, you have to be hard, you have to be fair, and just everybody saying, that's the same for me, as the helper, I know, it's all the time, again and again saying, but, first of all, you need to have a feeling, right, you need to bring, right, what is there, valuable, so, as a, let's stay with this, for a moment, as a helper, because it's one thing, to be the helper, it's, another thing, to be the judge, it's another thing, to be, on the stadium, and it's another thing, to watch it, on the replay, over and over again, yeah, ultimately, you, as a helper, know, who do you have, in front of you, right, and you can have, dogs that, you can have, two dogs that, bite very nicely, full, right, but you, very quickly, because of experience, understand, which dog, has a purpose, it's like, no, yeah, I'm, I've been trained, but, I'm doing, what I'm supposed to do, but, let's go, and everything else, looks identical, but, Ivan, nobody, is asking me, what I'm feeling there, right, right, right, but, but that's the, the, this is the dilemma, this is the big question, our sport is presented to, so, in protection, is that dog ready, at any moment, to go, papa, I'll fuck you up, or, is he playing a game, he can, he can do a very, nice, display of aggression, he can be jumping, in your face, and spitting, so, you know, but, as a helper, you know, which dog, really, is like, dude, fuck that, let's go, right, and, I think, this is, extremely hard, because, our training, has evolved, in so many different ways, that we can, train, and mask, and create, a, a, a body language, to look like it, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, yeah, yeah, so, so, there is this thing about, and, and, I think it, also, kind of goes, into obedience, and in tracking, and in obedience, it's like, how do you, like, if you want to breed, a repy to a female, and you have one, that, has, extremely great, retrieves, and recalls, but, you know, that that trainer, is working, very hard, to maintain, and create those, and you have, that other female, that, you know, that, there is nothing, to do with training, because you're, watching them do, doesn't know the shit, exactly, exactly, exactly, and we got,

to appreciate that, we cannot, like, it's not fair, to put the two, at the same place, we can give, extreme amount, of credit, to the trainer, that he has, managed, to, make, equally good, yep, but, yep, and, but now, the difficult question, as a judge, how do you know, exactly, there we are, there we are, man, this is the, all, conversation, in our podcast, how, does he know, has he been, even trained, by himself, that kind of, quality dog, has he been, ever trained, Marinos, listen, Ivan, we know each other, very well, and I'm not afraid, with big things, but I will tell you, honestly now, there is 70%, listen, 70% of the judges, which one have, no idea, how to even, make this thing happen, and there is, 50% of judges, on FMBB, which one are, judging that, which one have, ever, had Marinos, in the hand, which one for me, is like, fucking, bureaucracy, politic, and really, sarcasm, like, ever, haven't been happened, it's like, you have the, you have the world championship, and the white dog, is a German shepherd, is a, fucking, breed Marinoise, we want to breed Marinoise, everybody are caring, like, how they look like, and that's what, they are professional, but about character, nobody fucking cares, the test, breeding today, is like pussy, it's like, everybody can pass, what they are looking like, that's not a, that's not the fault of character, but in my opinion, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm getting crazy now, because I'm, I'm so sick of this, but, but, in this competition, like FMBB, it's a sign day, about Marinoise, and there, is the goal, by the way, if, if, if you guys forgot, I will remember, on FMBB, is, not only to, find out, the best IGP dog, it's also about, like, to find out, the real dogs, for the breeding, and for the future, and that's about, character, wake up guys, it's not about, how they look like, it's about character, I would say it really, today, first time loud, and, this shit, like, dog is, his breed, is Marinoise, the judge, who is judging him, he never even, had the Marinoise, in his hand, how fuck, he can judge the Marinoise, tell me now, it's a bullshit, he doesn't even know, how to, teach that fucking Marinoise, the healing, yeah, that's not possible man, I cannot, people are asking me, and asking me, what do you prefer, in this exercise, what do you prefer, in this exercise, what do you do, in this exercise, I'm only, I want to ask, I cannot tell you, what I prefer, and what is right, I only can telling you, what I do, right, and if it's right, or not, I can say, that, second, typical question, is like, do you prefer, a Marinoise, or German shepherd, and I'm saying, I prefer the good dog, but I can tell you, Ivan, today, if I'm going to be, tomorrow, next year, judge, and they asking me, to be judge, on German shepherds,

I would say, like, I don't know, shit, about your judges, German shepherds, today, I have to get, really years, now, to get experience, maybe I will take one, and I will train him, and I will get, into the people, and then I will dare, to go there, and judge them, if I have to judge, today, German shepherds, as I, how to say, how, how, how my attitude, against to me, is, it's gonna be, disaster, to be honest, and that, that means, nothing wrong, against German shepherd people, it means, only that, if I have to be, judging them, like, as I judge myself, they will not like me, right, so first, at all, I have to get, to that, community, to those, and maybe, even take that dog, but I mean, I had, five German shepherds, I have been training them, okay, now, I'm extremely, talking about, but, there is judges, which one, are trained, I cannot say, even, those breeds, I don't even know, if they have been trained, and they are judging, people, with Marinoise, man, right, yeah, man, I, I, I understand this, like, I, you know, I was saying, earlier, in the conversation, I, I bounce, around, the, to, like, sometimes, I'm, yeah, I agree with that, sometimes, I agree with that, as I, where I am today, and this can, totally change, tomorrow, I know, I mean, I think I know, that, talking about, MMA, you have, you have, trainers, you have coaches, you have, a whole, camps, and the coach, has never, fought, in a ring, ever, but he understands, the game, he understands, the psychology, he understands, what, he has to, give you, in order, to win, without, any experience, inside the ring, but, so, this is not, the, this is, out there, this is possible, I think, we don't, we shouldn't, stick to, well, have you done it, and are you doing it today, it really comes down, to how good you are today, being a competitor, being a, being a judge, or being a, helper, or whatever, like you can, I don't care, if you've, been a helper, for 20 years, or you, are this, young kid, that has, talent, and got just, three months, of education, and you're doing amazing, if you're doing amazing, why would we stop you, right, I, just like, with the women judges, I'd like to have, all doors open, so we can select, the best helper, the best tracker, the best judges, the best, regardless of, of what's your past, I don't care about your past, I personally don't, but, you have to demonstrate, quality, man, but, is it a quality point, you know what I mean, it's like, everybody, who are outside, will watch the, competitors, with the points, the results, and they will say like, oh, 87, shit, that was, shit dog, right, maybe he did, one mistake, and like, all the obedience,

was perfect, you know, I'm a very, I'm actually now, I figure it out, I'm super allergic, for the numbers, because, I don't think, in the same moment, I'm allergic, for the, for the, for the words, like, a very good high, or kind of, shit like that, you know, it should be clear, it should be clear, and as I'm saying, I'm not really clear, even today. critics, critics cannot be taken lightly, and they have to be, like, if you, if you're judging, and you cannot, give a critique, this means, you cannot justify, what you're looking for, and why you're, giving points, or taking points, period, period, I, we need to hear you, and, maybe, we can be upset, but once we hear you, it's like, oh, okay, maybe he has a point, or, we're like, what the fuck, what are you talking about, but we need to allow, the judges to talk, there is this, delicate, place, what do we, are we trying to reward, the high level of training, are we trying to reward, the natural abilities, of a dog, or are we trying to reward, a combination of both, and that becomes, a fucking science, this is not easy anymore, this is not easy, and all of us need to get, together, and educate, and learn, what we want to do, I mean, look, look at this thing, I'm doing that, 20 years, and, it's not that much as you, but it's a lot, and, in Czech country, 20 years, is a huge, do, what do I remember, was, all the time, like, like, okay, the IGP, commit, it's from five people, okay, just example, sure, sure, sure, and everyone, and those five people, are for the IGP, and practice, and everything around, that, like, we call, like, the practice, commit, okay, food trade, and, I do remember, maybe, like, I don't really know, if it's like, for two years, or five years, I don't care, but I remember, maybe, four, five years, all the time, shit, man, all the time, shit, man, and, there was, twice, one guy, which one is, like, my, my, my, hypothetically, father in Doxport, Martin Pejsa, which one I really respect, mainly, from Czech country, and, he was there, when I was beginning, and, he's there, now, again, when I am 34, and, in that time, he was the boss, of this, commit, today, he's just, member, and, in that time, when he was boss, he told me, like, man, I will, I will get out of this, because, nobody understands me there, and, I'm the only one, maybe, maximum, one guy, understands me, and, I cannot do, against, to those three, nothing, I'm so tired, because, they don't understand, my, my, my mind, now, he is there again, and, I'll tell you why, because, he is there, with his, same level team, after 20 years, we have, first time ever, in my life, really, commit, which one, have a sense, and,

it's, very obvious, in the competition, like, for example, I'm talking about, eight dogs, instead, six dogs, to change, in the row, you understand, what I mean, to have, not six, but, couple of, eight, four years, because, I experienced, that once, in FMBB, 19, and, I like it, and, I think, it's so, cool, for the dogs, especially, for them, because, they can rest, it's not, normal man, especially, in the final, in FMBB, after, really, 25 degrees, and more, go, after, 40, 50 minutes, again, to the production, it's, star shit, right, it's, it's about life, and, I'm, fighting with that, and now, was the championship, of the, Czech, Czech championship, quality for FCI, and they did, eight dogs, I did, from whole, stadion, only one, applause, nobody understood, you know, nobody, everybody, were watching, like, what is this, stupid guy, doing, you know, me, but it was, absolutely, perfect, and many more, things, I just want to say, that, it's about, of course, team, and, I believe, that we, do, we didn't, ever, have better, commit, in Czech Republic, than we have, now, because, they really, all of them, brain dogs still, right, they are, very, very, all the time, active, all of them, are, international judges, all of them, you understand, all five, are in the same, and there is, different age, like, 10, 10, 12 years, right, perfect, it's perfect, no, no question, then we do have, commit, of FMBB, and there is, maybe, one or two, active of them, the other two guys, are bureaucrats, and one of them, don't even, even train, this, so, where are we at, that's the core, in my opinion, yeah, everything, starts somewhere, so, if you are, ahead, of something, which one, you need to improve, you need the team, or, you need to have, the main word, you need to decide, it alone, but if you are, the head, you need to choose, the right ones, otherwise, as Martin said, 20 or 15 years ago, I cannot do nothing, I'm there for nothing, whatever I say, they just, split it out, and, and this is where, we, as a community, worldwide, the people, that understand that, we can have, disagreements, we can have, completely different, ways of training, we can, like, certain picture, more than another one, but then, what needs to happen, is we need to come together, and decide, what is the, ultimate picture, that we want to see, because when we know, what is the ultimate picture, that we want to see, everybody's training, is gonna, change, in some way, because we know, what we want to see, and, exactly, the conversation, we're having right now, it's because of that, it's not because, somebody, hasn't trained dog, in 20 years, it's not because, somebody, favors, a certain person,

it's not, it's because, we all have, a different ideas, what the sport, or the, breeding, or, combination of the two, should be, yeah, and, until, until we come together, and decide, what the fuck do we do, so we can all, prepare, we will, this problem, not gonna go away, it's not gonna go away, there, there needs to be really, how do you say, like, international meeting, all the countries, have to send their one, in my opinion, at least maybe, three persons, which one are like, the, ambassadors of the countries, they have to have a meeting, for three, four days, serious meeting, about like, rules, right, where, it's like, one leader, which one will say, opportunity, and everybody will, walk for that, the main walk, will be in the rules, that's it, another thing, then, another meeting, where, all the people, which one, have to prove, they are in Club of Malinois, they have to, wall, the, comment, of FMBB, that's it, that's it, that's, that's like a president, but if somebody, has a Rottweiler, if somebody, has a Rottweiler, and can, understand, dog behavior, and training, I, I don't have a problem, if they, understand, yeah, there, there is a Malinois, there is a Rottweiler, they are different, but, Malinois people, can have problem with that, that he has a Rottweiler, and he is a wall thing, of this, yeah, I don't, I don't give a fuck, neither, I, I, I care more, of the handler, I don't care, what dog he has, I can tell, I can tell, if you're, judging good, or not judging good, and I don't care, what's your past, I don't care, what breed you're in, you can have, Yorkshire Terriers, I don't care, but you better be, a top, when it comes to it, here is the question, I think, a very important question, for everybody, how much, do we want to emphasize, on the two things, as I said, excellent training, that, in a lot of ways, masks, the, the disadvantages, of a dog, versus, excellent dog, with not so good training, and then, an excellent dog, with excellent training, how do we, do we separate, these three groups, at all, do we care, or not? Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, in your opinion, how it should be? For me, as a breeder, I think, we need to, and again, I might be, completely off, but I'm speaking, from, from breeding dogs, and caring about, what I want, to breed to, do, so, for me, so, for me, it's, of, utmost importance, that the dog, has the natural abilities, that this is not, accomplished, by training, of course, training, of course, training, plays a role, you have to, reinforce it, you have to, punish, you have, you have to do training, but there is this, natural, genetic predisposition, this is, who that dog is, that's, what's very important, to me, cheers,

yes, my man, I think, if, and I, I have, trust me, I don't have, the answer to this, this is, this is really complicated, and this is why, I think, we all need, to come together, and hash it out, and talk about it, and figure it out, how to move forward, because we need, to find a way, there is two things, the first one is, we need to stop this, bullshit, about, well, now it's our turn, so fuck you, we gonna, give our guy points, no, no, like, stop this, like, like, once and for all, let's stop this, because this is, like, we should not be doing this, and the second one, which is more complicated, is, who are the judges, and, how do, do we even agree on, is it, for everybody, more important, to show, well, this is, the true nature, of my dog, or, well, no, this is, my excellent, level of training, which one, Ivan, which one, a judge will reward, you know, look at this, I was like, saving this for the, really, super moment, look at this idea, I, I don't know, honestly, as I know you, you have this idea, as well, in your mind, million times, but, you know, we have a point, in IGP, right, we have 100 points, of the examen, is there kind, of sympathy points, is there kind, of character points, why do we have, only points, for the exercises, why do not, we have the points, for the entertainment, for the attitude, for the natural things, for the public station, people, you know what I mean, like, we do have, only 100 points, for the exercises, but there is not, another, expression, of how the dog is, like, in the end, I will imagine, you go for obedience, and you are getting, one point, for exercises, like, 94, and then you are giving, another, for the attitude, for the expression, or, of the handler, or something like that, pork of the handler, then, for the natural talent, or, if there is, something really special, extra points as well, which one needs to be named, you understand me, what I mean, what is my point, another thing, is also public, because, public is like, there is like, three, four hundred people, that is not only, it is not only about, like, which country, has more people, man, I know it, right, people are, today, much more, general, much more, objective, objective, than the judge, right, so, what about, to, to bring there, another judgment, you know what I mean, I don't think, the crowd, on the stadium, understands, what the competition, is about, I really don't think so, I really don't think so, I think the crowd, and, excuse me, everybody, but that's just, my opinion, the crowd, likes,

and, favors, somebody, that, they train alike, it, it, it's the same picture, but is that same picture, what, we're trying to accomplish, that's a different thing, you know, so, I, I really don't, I, I don't want to go, into politics here, but I will, very, just briefly, give you an example, I don't think, everybody, in a country, should vote, for who the next president, in the country, should be, because, you have no idea, you, you don't even understand, any, you don't even know, what countries, like, you have absolutely, zero idea, to have, a, the right, to vote, and, and this is, in, in some ways, how I feel, about the public, or the, the, competitors, that, you adopt, a certain style of training, and now you think, that this is, the way, we need to do, I, I, I really don't think, that's right, but that's again, something to be, this is, the lack of education, because, everybody that trains, comes on the field, and, gets judged, and, they're showing, the best, they can, believing, that that's what, the judge wants to see, but, a lot of times, that's not what, the judge wants to see, of course not, of course not, so, we have, I mean, again, as vague, the rules are, like, we have, you know, we have this, whatever, five points, for attitude, five points, for the precision, position, five points, for focus, for attitude, like, you know, when, man, I just think, that 100 points, is too little, tell me, for all those things, why, they did, created half points, of course, because, it's not even possible, to get this, all shits, together, all these things, what I said, the half points, is kind of ridiculous, you have to make up, your mind, it's either, 70 or 71, like, what is this, half point, I mean, it's a game changer, because, you know, skating, how this is named, in Olympic game, like, they get, the, seven judges, and they show, the points, how do we call that, yeah, the figure skating, you know it better, right, yeah, when, when, when they do that, there is always, like, judgment, they give the points, and, all the judges, are separate, if I'm correct, for, for the specific stuff, so, somebody is giving, for the entertainment, somebody is giving, like, for the decoration, somebody is giving, like, how they look like, somebody is giving, for the practicing, it's a titus, we do not have that, that's why I'm saying, 100 points is too little, because, there is big difference, even, and I'm, I will be now, like, a stupid guy, when I'm going to, watch, our sport, and, again, obedience, for example, where it's, like, happening, the best, between handler, and dog, where you, can affect, dog, mainly, I will judge,

also, handler, not only the dog, what it does, of course, they trying, to judge, together, the couple, but, in my opinion, 100 points, and this half points, is not enough, to judge them correctly, if we want, to really know, what was correct, because, if we go there, very deeply, man, you are in 70, or you are in 141, so, I mean points, so, that's why I'm saying, like, like, maybe I'm crazy, but, like, to give, like, points for the exercises, as we do, then points for, how they did together, and, and something, something, what I mean, about public, in my opinion, is, that, public, of course, of course, always can, effort, and, and affect, the judge, because, now we like, him, and, but, what, if there is, like, only, like, three, four, judgments, which means, in the end, you plus three scores, or four, then, in the end, you can, you can probably, just, just, spread it out, you don't need, to even take it, but, if you only take, points, for, what we are doing, now, in my opinion, what I, I really figure out, they, that, those judges, cannot, say, exactly, what they, want to say, because, there is no, mathematics, for that, they cannot, count it, in the end, they need to, take, because then, we, then, then, we need to, from hundred points, split it, the points, for maybe, five, or six, because, the part, of exercise, for example, in healing, has, like, in my opinion, stuff, of the, like, basic positions, stop, turns, running, slow healing, how the dog, walk, what is the, what is the, attitude there, how the, handler, is behaving, and look at me, it's eight now, I can add, three more, let's, you know what I mean, and it's, it's ten, approximately, things, so I can add, three, at least, at least, three more, so, if we're talking, about, free healing, is the dog, heavy, training, leaning, is he free, is he contact, is he just looking, at the clouds, does it matter, like, all this needs, to be understood, and this can change, training, right, yes, and now I say, does the dog, has ears up, tail up, does he walk, regularly, these things, are not able, even stay, so, I mean, if we, if we, can do, somehow, 200 points, or, I don't know, I'm now just, shooting, you know, I'm not thinking, I'm just saying, spontaneous, or we can have, like, two judgments, like, one is for, the technical things, another one is, like, for how does it look like, because, if we talk about, natural things, man, this will be, the biggest game changer, right, because, everybody see, the dog wants, to kill the dumbbell, or the dog, is just bringing it, because he is in pressure, ciao, part of mine, Ianni, I think, I think we need, to do part two, I think we have, a lot to talk about, man, I think, I don't, hold on, oh, there we go, yeah, there we go,

I was saying, I think, we definitely need, to do part two, because we have, we still have a lot, to talk about, and it's super interesting, and, maybe, maybe we get this one out, and have people, think, and talk, and, and we do, definitely do another one, because, this is, this is what, we need, to be doing, we need to be talking, and we need to, not to rush it, we need to, all of us need to, think, what, what's up, you know, exactly, like, I guess, a few things, to, to kind of, on my end, to close up with, the one is like, are we, are we, how, how much, the selection program, is important, for us anymore, and is it at all, and how much, is it sport, or should it be, both, are we recognizing, you know, what emotions, and, and, is the dog, free, is the dog, free, understanding, what to do, because everybody, is talking about emotions, and whatever, but emotion, doesn't mean, your ears are up, or your ears are down, this is a, a much bigger conversation, than that, then, you know, we have dogs, with, with, self-control, and we have dogs, that are very, uneasy, very restless, in their performances, they just, like, they're just responding, and, and, you know, like, they're not confident, in, they're just doing things, mechanically, without understanding, and I think, this is where the, I would agree, with judges, that are hard, that are, you know, I would disagree, with Arnold, where we give, well, if we give more points, to everybody, but, but we need, like, we need to decide, what we want, man, I understand, what do you mean, but look at this, uh, just, just last thing, and last thought, about this, this topic, uh, 100 points, are, 100 points, for exercises, each exercise, has, basically, 10 points, or something like that, lots of points, yeah, sit, sit in a motion, has, has five, in the future, hopefully, they will, they will, they will stay, what they, they decided, again, 10 points, which I really love, yeah, I think so too, they will change, A frame, they will change something, which one, I really love, because it's, so obvious, that the commit, has been changed, and people, who are deciding, now, about FCI, are really people, on the right position, I really like it, I would say, uh, when I have been kid, and I had the first dog, he has been, not, prey drive dog, at all, and I have been, always watching people, which one, just take the ball, under the arm, and the dog, dog was walking, like that, and I was like, dreaming about it, dreaming about it, literally, and I was thinking, like, this is healing, you know, today, in the highest level, in world championship, everybody, works like that, it's not true, not everybody, works like that, even all of them, should be, all of them, supposed to be, like, in the prey, and all of them, doing that,

for the reward, you know what I mean, the point, and, now, is like, super, super much different, between dogs, which one just walk, or which one, walk for something, which one, like in protection, as you said, they are ready, for the next step, or did they just bark, in healing, did the dog, really walk, like with the attitude, or he just walk, because he must, do it, is it, I will say it, even, I'll add to this, is it, is it just this, mechanical, kind of, display, or is it, a true, working together, right? Exactly, and, this is, most important, for me, for example, yeah, right, it's much more important, than, than, some other thing, and, if you have to judge, really, like, as you said, it's about what we want, if you have to judge, I mean, it's super difficult, now, I will be protecting, judges, to judge correctly, technical things, attitude from the handler, how he leads the dog, how the dog acts, natural things from the dog, in one fucking exercise, of the 10 points, Jesus Christ, this is super difficult, in my opinion, today, judges get out of this, and they are judging, only technical, technical things, technical things, right, there is, there is a missing, and keeping, completely taking, fuck off, the natural things, we, we have, this is not, the end, we need to, we need to get back to it, and do it one more time, but what I think is, I'll have, Eric, make this public first, and maybe, we get some responses, and we get like, but we need part two, we need to keep talking, this cannot end, yeah, we can take this, like a theory, we need to keep talking, because it is, so important, and, just to, just to, like, I, I do need to give my, take on this, like, I, I respect, Oli, I actually, not now, but, I mean, I congratulate him, of course, I can congratulate him, for winning, he, he wins, but, you know, I, I also message him, I'm like, wait, dude, what, how, how do you teach the healing, just as I would talk to you, how do you, you know, like, there is, there is always this interest, and we always collaborate, and we, we have to remember, that, ultimately, we are all, in the same, we, we, like it or not, we are all trying, to do the same thing, and we need to improve, and the same, with every single, well, not with every single judge, but I know that, yeah, I know that, a lot of the judges, are, not necessarily, making a favor, they just have a, certain picture, what they like, but, the problem is, we all need to agree, on that picture, exactly, that's it, yeah, so, let's go, for part two, okay, but it was, super cool, to talk to you man, and see you finally, yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe, get your girl, and come for a week, just on, on vacation, yeah, I think so, I think so, we have to, just for a week, like right now, you have no idea, how cool it is,

I'm not afraid, of how it is, let's go, let's go man, okay, Yanni, thank you, part two coming, and have to wait, Thank you.