NePoPo®의 마이클 & 바트 벨롱과 함께 개 훈련의 미래를 열다

ended up going and uh we showed up actually at the host's house right after Bart had left and the hosts were like oh Bart just left and he's such a smart guy and blah blah yeah and then I I actually didn't meet Bart until Saturday morning when I was getting letting the dogs out and he was making his trip around he likes to see cars and setups and trailers trailers and I had a big Sprinter but I didn't know it was him and I thought it was somebody that I didn't want to talk to so I just ran in my truck but then he came over and he said are you here for the for the BART villain seminar I was like yes he said maybe you can give me a ride and I said all right because I realized it wasn't uh it wasn't who I thought it was so um yeah and then that's how we met and then in the car she asked me do you know Bart I said no but I'm also there to listen and then at a certain point I went on the microphone and then she looked to me like you bastards that's funny that's funny I mean go ahead I'm a little bit embellished for a nice story but now comes I said Michael and you have an answer of five minutes where did you meet Michael and I would give you one answer your room two to three [Laughter] all right so you guys met at that seminar right and then after that what happened where did you guys connect after how did you guys continue to work with each other because at that time like well I believe you were running I actually just didn't think we would see each other again so uh yeah she did do something right in room we didn't we didn't have dinner together he asked me do you want to have dinner with me and the host and I was like no I have to go home so I went home but then he came to America like two weeks later and then a month later I went to Belgium and mm-hmm yeah then it's just like a story well there we learned that international phone bills can be very expensive yeah a thousand dollar a thousand dollar bill for one 20-minute phone call wow beginning we didn't know about uh what's happened Facebook messenger and FaceTime because we didn't hate her yeah yeah so I don't know if it was there or whatever but yeah so we just called regular okay phone bills about the expensive phone bills my oldest son is a special one and one day tells me Daddy I have a very expensive phone build it was more than thousand Euro and I said Sonny it's unbelievable because I'm traveling worldwide and my bill is cheaper say what do you do well he said in my free time I did call the sex line and I said are you kidding me next time you call me and I do it half a price I mean I think he was just calling for company though I don't think he was that's crazy guys

so I have my next question just for you Michael is Michael you went to George Washington University and studied psychology many people don't know that how did that come full circle for you with dog training well I I that was my second degree um I my first degree is in English and then I Mark you didn't learn anything what this whole time you haven't learned English from Michael um yeah so but psychology I actually worked in the lab in my specialty my special discipline was on learning and cognition okay so um I think it's come in very I mean I want it to be a cognitive psychologist at a certain point uh but it didn't work that way but a lot of the things that I learned in school the writing the English the reading the studying the psychology the reports everything it's definitely been extremely useful my father always joked you have like a major that you can do nothing with it but everything I've done everything with my major with both of my majors being the head of two three companies so it's been extremely useful and yeah if I was an engineer I would go into engineering but for what I do my education has been extremely helpful so I want to bring that full circle too with you running DC Metro canine what was some of the biggest challenges you faced we all As dog training owner business owners we know that the owners can be the problem really the dogs are easy but while running that business what were some of the obstacles and challenges you faced well in the beginning when you start off your business you take every client yep every client so I got to the point when I didn't have to do that anymore that the the but I do think it's a growing experience to be you're so hungry and you need to make money so you take every every client every dog no matter what and you learn a lot but normally I lived thankfully in Bethesda Maryland where it's an extreme educated city and for that I am very fortunate because if you explain to people in a logical way exactly what you're doing and why they can follow it there's no denying so there's yeah so I was blessed really by motivated understanding hard-working and grateful people in my business no I should like to add that when I looked to the type of dogs Michael received 90 percent were what we call the bully dogs they were little bit too much spoiled but very stable environmentally so the owners did do something right but they just could not control the dog that means that it was not about fear training on stuff like that you know not for I mean 75 like I said I lived in a

very educated area with really smart people but that was it was lucky for me I was always amazed to see that Michael did turn around the dogs in three weeks so not three months three weeks which was 21 days yeah with the basic command come to me go to your place opposite Behavior then the sit and the down a walk on the leash and walk without the leash and a heel and the heel yeah a lot a lot of dogs get got a fantastic heel a sport quality heel in three weeks Michael in three weeks in three weeks yes but you have to understand that I didn't start training right away the first week I normally got a bond with the animals and I made ignition and once you have ignition everything went quickly if you look to the movie The Miracle Worker where that one lady trains because it's training the little problem child that's a little bit what Michael did with the dogs of Bethesda installing rules of Education we call it the Rules of Engagement so there was a big similarity between that movie of The Miracle Worker and what Michael did for example Michael did pick up the dog at their place and then they'd bring the dog where she had a little business and nobody could come there no visit of the parents or nothing it wasn't that I didn't want them to either to see my place it was that they need to be alone and because as soon as you bring them back a lot of dogs say oh thank goodness I'm back in the place where I can get away with all my stuff and if when they see the people and what I was always about they smell them yes what I always was amazed to see was that Michael and I were implementing the same type of system exactly from before we did know each other it means that one of the biggest ingredients of the system is Hope hope and then a little bit pressure and if pressure is lower than the hope it's a negative reinforcement and if pressure is too high it's higher than hope it's over and out so I was always amazed to see how me that comes just out of sport world and Michael that did do the money a business was based on the pet industry where the money is how we did implement the same type of system without knowing each other it was very interesting puppy dog even when he doesn't do well and he must get a correction and he's still happy then people will follow through with your plan yes I agree I agree if if they don't want to see their dog looking sad yeah they don't want to see their dog demotivated and they want to see a happy dog so that you must return a happy dog so how can you make that happen well you spoke about ignition and for people back home ignition for the balance is we'll say desire willing to

perform the behavior because the dog understands that their behavior has contact there's a cause and effect which will create creativity for the dog so they don't go and train dogs before the dog understands that what I do has a consequence both good and mostly yeah that they can make they can make you do things exactly but you keep everything that they want and they must want something that's the first thing if you get a dog in your training that doesn't want anything doesn't want food doesn't want pets doesn't want to go for a walk doesn't want a toy you're in trouble right you have to make them want something yeah so that's the first thing but then you have to also also that there's a guy I can't remember the the psychologist's name uh uh it'll come to me when I don't need to remember it but he was a social psychologist and he basically said happy people are when you wake up in the morning and you say I want to check my phone I want a cup of coffee I want to call my best friend I want to go out and see my dog I want to do this I want to do that depressed people wake up and they want to put a pillow over their head and go back to sleep so that's a little bit when you get dogs dogs that don't want anything are sometimes not very happy so the more things they want the easier it is to train and the happier they are because they can get what they want or they can what you can keep it you can keep it away time zone it's easier it's a little bit the Maslow pyramid that Michael was implementing it means that a lot of dogs that did came out of Bethesda did live in Muslim Maslow four world too much fruit too much love five beds yeah satiation right and what Michael took away is that too much and then every time she offered food they did refuse no problem but I did offer it so Michael's system was based on first I want to see that there is hunting Behavior desire yes once there is desire then we can train yeah I never trained a dog that didn't have any desire I mean the first thing is just open your hand and you have your food and the dog must gobble it up yeah and if they don't if they're looking around or they're putting in their mouth and the food is dripping out then you I still would take care of them I still would brush them I'd walk them but they aren't ready to train what's very important to understand is that most dogs need food to survive most not all not all there is dogs there are dogs that are genetically not the best problematic so that means that as soon as there was interest for food Michael could start a training program for normal dogs in the sports world in the sport World years ago we only did start when there was prey drive

meaning what goes for people back yeah well and the ball or whatever the tug okay and then the problem of that system is by taking away the thug question is is that really a correction by not giving the tug that's why in the sport world you need to have the pinch color the choker and the e-collar whereas what Michael did do with the pet dogs was she was using their natural interest for food and that system you can Implement on I would say 99 of the dogs whereas if you go for prey you can only Implement that on five percent of the dogs so our job is not to train only the five percent of the genetic best dogs our job is to train the whole spectrum of dogs and what if you have a dog that doesn't have food drive and doesn't like how do you know that Michael the biggest question that I think people will have is how do I know that my dog is not is in that five percent or that one percentile of not being food motivated because yeah a lot of words make the mistake of thinking hey my dog's not food motivated but it's really because they're giving away all the ammunition in a food bowl twice a day right well that that's it's for me it's easy because when I get when I got dogs and I always fed them by hand a lot of dogs will eat if you put a bowl in their kennel and you leave them alone you leave the room then they'll eat you'll hear the meeting but when you're around for some reason they don't want to there's multiple reasons sometimes they don't trust you sometimes they're they're possessive of their food or different things sometimes they prefer to be with you because they know I can eat later so but I like to do it when I offer them food they should eat and but if you after two days they're not eating and say they're stable they're not because some dogs can be nervous dogs can even be so nervous when they go to a new place that they don't pee for a day it's unbelievable I see it all the time oh it's unbelievable when I first started my business I was so concerned because I would take the dogs out over and over and I I had a few dogs that literally didn't pee for a day and a half but it's it can happen they're stressed they're so stressed and it's not because I'm doing anything to them it's because or they're not environmentally stable they're not used to going other places they're not used to being in a kennel they're not used to being around other dogs or they're used to only do pee and poo in one place which is the toilet so that they did not learn no no it's it's because if you buy a dog from a breeder that has the dogs on the cement floor well the summon floor becomes the toilet and they will not go on grass and

they will you see what I mean so yeah very important yeah right well Jack had learned to pee on wood chips wood chips so Jack when I first got her she didn't really pee outside but when you put her in the kennel we had wood floors she always peed when I was a young trainer I had a friend and he was a smart guy and he said the puppies if you want them to be clean you take two foot of grass a grass straw how you call it the roll of grass sod and you put it close to the door of your kennel and they will do it on the grass and very fast you see that they do it on the grass and then they only do it on the grass and you make that little piece that stroke of grass smaller and smaller until there is no more grass in the kennel and then you leave the dog every three four hours out and they do it on grass so these are the little things that are very important so wood chips when pubs are young it's easy for the breeder to clean everything it's a little bit problematic later to keep the dogs clean in an environment where there's work with the floor yeah so the animal learns it so to go back to Michael's thing of dogs that had stress from nothing and doing maybe but maybe it was also they were trained so well that's your toilet right and not on another place right yeah I agree so I want to take some time to check into the chat box like let me just say one thing is that you see a dog if a dog is not peeing if he's not comfortable enough to pee he's certainly not ready for training yeah that means there's no truck as well right you're safe yeah so like I said the first few days it's just I I observe them how did they eat how do they pee do when they poo do they have diarrhea are they coordinated are they getting exercise are they using their energy so that they can be calm at night are they stressed to be around other just just watching okay I I've noticed that in my studies with dogs and dogs I've had that most dogs when they first come it's for me the first maybe if I get them in the morning in the evening they don't even want food yes a lot of times where's my owner what's the new change that's happening so I find that taking them on a long walk decompresses them and I'm not talking about having structure just going for a long walk and that will make them the stress levels go down it also will help them realize I'm not here to hurt them and then go and feed and keep the sessions real short and and people don't understand the the the benefits of good exercise and I don't mean wearing them ragged but that that it's a natural thing that dogs need to move and when they move they can get their crazy out and they sleep better and they eat

better and they're calmer and they're more energetic because they're in better shape just like that exercise cannot be underestimated just like us so I'm gonna quickly do a battery change I'm still here but I wanted to foreign yeah I see it I see it uh I can I answer this when there is desire for your money and the money can be food the money can be right both systems only work if the dog is interested in the money that means that if you do direct reward with food or Bowl and that food or that bowl is not rewarding for the dog luring will work in three times not today not tomorrow never the same for indirect Rewards if the money is not interesting your dog the shipping will work in three times not today Not Tomorrow Never so the both systems need the desire for the money ignition ignition you need to have an ignition and that's actually Bart and I have really been saying it for years that were primarily ignition trainers that means that we create different types of gasoline sorry so we create different types of gasoline we create what we call the easy gasoline which is food every dog that wants to survive needs food and if you look to our dogs they are not oversized but they are not underweighted needed they look fantastic so that's one thing and our experience is that even dogs that don't eat well over the work they start to be work addicted and food addicted like like Jack is that what you mean when you say a dog has too much hope art well too much hope no no no no but the only thing you can never have in our opinion too much hope the only thing you can have too much hope for is something you never want to happen again then you want to squelch all hope make no hope but everything else there can't be too much hope more hope the better well we always ask ourselves why is it that a dog can be crazy about the cat are we Frozen yes here our stuff is Frozen no problem no problem oh I hear and see you fine just wanted to make sure we're good because I have people watching in the house to make sure we're rolling okay it means that where was I yeah you're speaking about never did see a cat so attracted by the cats why is the dog loving the cat the cat that never did feed the dog the dog the cat didn't do nothing for my dog

yeah dog loves The Cat why so it is always interesting to see how sometimes things can be a point of interest for the dog and if the cat is the point of Interest well let's go for two cuts inside of your pocket and reward your dog with a with a cat that you take out of your pocket yeah and with everyone Cuts there you give them two cuts here and then you maybe can but it's crazy to see how dogs can be crazy about something and then you think how can that happen but that's the trick you must find what is attractive for my dog yeah and that's a little bit the belly that belly work that you must doing sometimes a stinky plastic bottle that comes out of your trash is more attractive than a twenty dollar ball that you did buy especially in a store for pets you know yeah what do they like to play with it's crazy yeah my my blue healer he's fascinated with pine cones and I never never played with one I go outside total fast Niche every single time I want to go into a pine cone and it's just fascinating I don't know what it is in his head that it's like Michael had the dog Ragnar and he was crazy going on ladders if he did so love her he had to climb on it like a monkey and why and it wasn't very coordinated either oh he was he was missing falling we don't know why and he didn't care and he would still go back on the ladder the more it did fall down yeah he wanted to love it yeah and I tried to get him down because and that was one of the only times that he said ER he was like leave me alone I'm climbing this ladder so much doing that just makes me think of a client that I've had where it was a Rottweiler and she would give him food in a bowl and it would just do what it did to you growl right and it wasn't that she ever took the food away from the dog it's never that she played the game where you must be okay when I take the food away she does well I tell you there's a there's a famous dog trainer that put out a video about teaching to take the food away from it I'm not going to say who it is but for us a very easy way is we have an empty bowl and we put some food we drop food in the bowl and the dog eats and we drop food we keep dropping food and as the dog gets more used to it our hands come closer and closer to the bowl and continue to give food so our hands announce you get food so they like our hands to come we are not competitors on the food of the dog we are the servants that bring food to the dog and it works like a charm because the reason that they're growling is that they feel threatened well they feel like maybe you're going to take it away from them or they're protecting it but there's a reason why they don't like

your hands so make your hands have another meaning your hands are the givers you see the same you see the same in the sports huh in the sport the hands are the biggest competitors on the prey of the dog because the hands only come to take away the prey or when the dog is not doing it well to hit him on his nose hey you must audit or you must hold it better I mean it's it's the same thing so you should not be in this case a competitor on what the dog has by the way guys on take our picture down and put it back up because I think we're we're locked up we're Frozen yeah close it and open it again yeah yeah let's try that on YouTube it looks like you guys are all good okay yeah no it's still locked it's still frozen weird Okay so for you guys do you want to turn the camera on and off let me stop and start the video for you we tried yeah you can try it yeah are you still frozen yeah the Wi-Fi yeah I guess I don't know I don't know huh okay no problem we are not frozen we can see your video so the people in the chat box can see can see very well so now the next thing that I want to talk about is like the future of where you guys want to send your message we talked about it a little bit in silver school I was there in silver school and the goal is to spread the message about all the quadrants of training now a lot of trainers think that people focus too much on the quadrants of training but definitions are important can you explain to us why you guys think definitions are important and how we can basically shape and mold the future of dog training well if if normal people have a different definition of something then they can argue about something that where really they're in agreement so definitions must be the same it's a little bit like we always tell people that what is your definition of dog training right because some people might have a dog that's trained and say my dog is really well trained and another person says no they're not really well trained but it depends what their definition of dog training is is it that they don't jump on the kids and they get along with the family if they do that according to that person's definition they're well trained our definition of a well-trained dog is a dog that always does On Cue with heart and soul that's our definition but if somebody has a different definition and their dog fulfills their definition then they're well trained but see definitions matter yeah a good dog is subjective is like the word stress if you ask to define the word stress to different people you receive totally different answers and despite the fact that then the if you Google it stress double point

uncontrollable reactions from the organism on physiological and psychological pressure for most people stress means implementing pressure and so on now so and that's why adding pressure to a dog and the dog knows how to switch it off it doesn't give stress to the animal because they know how to avoid it and they know how to switch it off so there is no stress it's controllable and dog training is good if the dog can control it right there's never stress so there four definitions are important that means that the big drama today is what is the definition of negative reinforcement for a lot of people negative reinforcement means plus Corrections and aversive Stems that is not the definition of negative reinforcement for us a reinforcer is something that gives the dog a reason to do it again that's why you reinforce a behavior to come again and again and again and that reinforce it can be positive you add something nice to make Behavior happen again which is positive reinforcement or you stop the discomfort and stopping the discomfort is also a reason to do it again so that's why definitions are important the whole atmosphere in Europe is sick about this definition of negative reinforcement they have another definition and also the Germans don't have any word really for it no it may uh the only word is what well they don't have a word for negative reinforcement for them the negative reinforcement is something you implement to stop Behavior yes and that's where the whole drama did start with the old German definitions and the dog training in Europe is a little bit influenced by the German school and that's why it went wrong and and in the German School obedience is basically meaning being under submission yeah the definition of obedience under submission yeah yeah but but that's the definition of it yeah and so you see that affects your well the German word is below me under order so these these words trigger pet owners and I think they're good it's a good conversation to have words like force leadership um submission control these words people like to humanize and say well I have a a canine refrigerator I'm bringing into my house and I am not going to put it get it under control right now I think that people are misled with the words leader Alpha people think that people constantly argue and say I need to be the alpha of my dog I don't want to use treats I don't want to use these things to train it's very interesting because I posted something about a video of zoc from two days ago and one person wrote to me and said they liked it and they said it looks like it's just all playing

looks like it's just a big game and that's really at the height of obedience the height of obedience at least for us is that the dog wants you to tell him what you want him to do that's that's where you want to be and how do you get there and that's what we try to teach people yeah I agree waiting for you to say that because he wants to do it it's not really it is control but it's it's control where the dog a little bit is controlling you to tell me that thing that you that you want me to do we try to learn dogs techniques that are based on self-control that means that the dog thinks that they think that they are in charge of the exercise and if they love the exercise you just give them green light go it's a fantastic experience for the animal why should the animal not do that again they love it so much everything that you want your dog to do he must find his advantage in doing it yeah and like to do it and if he likes to do it and he's found his Advantage then why would he not do it yeah I agree and there's there's just sayings like what's better than a child that listens a child that chooses to do the right thing right yes it's like the last school one of our business advisors was there and that gentleman has no dog but he did Implement everything we did say in the school to his kids to his children and he said Bart it works so well of course I manipulate them but they don't know that I manipulate them and now they do everything without Mama of papa telling them you must do it they do it from themselves because they want to they want to and everything is done Pico Bello cleaning the room doing the little chores and so on and so on it's because it's the psychology of how animals learn it's just it's not just dogs it's it's any you know organization of course of course so when I like to explain to like my clients what the difference is between luring and chafing is that it's like if you told your kid hey I'm gonna give you 20 if you clean your room versus you clean your room and then you get twenty dollars spontaneously one is going to encourage the child to go and repeat the behavior the other the child is waiting for the stimulus yeah well right and there again it's about a definition and for us the direct reward is the reward creates the behavior it's the reward it's the activity of the reward that creates the reactivity of the behavior whereas in the indirect reward it is the behavior that makes the reward come to them or that let them get the rewards it's a totally different opinion but you know at the end it's a little bit the mix of both systems right in indirect reward you must be a better dog trainer that's a

fact because in indirect reward is about what do you mark with your marker do you mark that he looks to you do you mark that he's faking looking to you do you before you know you are in another concept it's like tracking tracking with the money on the ground with the reward on the ground it's quite easy but there you must be careful that the dog does not become obedient to the rewards we want the dog to become obedient to the track it's a big difference so you cannot say that's better than that you must understand both systems very well and then some dogs sometimes you must do a little bit direct reward to later do nothing and then they will come in that exercise that have been rewarded before but spontaneously that means that imagine you always lure your dog with food in your hands for three weeks so it only eats if they follow that hand week number four you don't do nothing the dog is hungry you know what he's gonna do he's gonna start healing he's gonna do it spontaneously so that is make you lift your hand up of course that means that your system was direct but at a certain moment the dog shifted to indirect it's like click release imagine you click release for holding the dog holds you click release he holds the bike sleeve you click release he holds the bite sleeve click release he holds the bike sleeve you click and the dog say I don't release anymore because now the biting is self-reward so there is always a shift from one to the other and that's the Fantastic thing where you must be that little talented dog trainer to see that's what I want I want my dog to become spontaneous active in healing I want my dog to be more attracted by the track than by the money I give so that's the whole shift from one season to the other there is always a shift and when the dog shifts you must be happy with that result there's just different tools and that's what I'm looking forward to in my gold school when I'm yours I'm going in yeah last month and that's what I'm looking to learn is the silver school put the fire in the pot and now it's boiling and now I can go in and clean up those little definitions that like and explore what you're talking about I bought a treat and train after the school to focus on indirect rewards and like you said the dog now uh I have to be more focused on my mark But now the spot like the dog has more spontaneous activity well they get they get a a confidence in solving it without you because they don't know that you're pushing a button they think their behavior makes that machine give them stuff yeah it was very interesting one time uh I had a customer dog and I was working with the manage

minder and we had a seminar in that state park in Maryland and I was showing the manners minder with this dog and I didn't give him any commands he was sitting downstairs then I threw a ball and I let him go and uh we were talking with the ladies and they were saying wow this It's amazing And while we were speaking that dog went back and wanted to move that manners minder and he started doing it again and so of course I pushed because he thinks he's very strong and powerful and I had enough of that ball I want some more food so he just went back back to know that I'm holding the remote and then that gender is dogs that do smell that you are quite dominant for me I'm a quite dominant guy and when I give food out of my pockets the dogs always look to me like you stinky bastards yeah so that's for me I must throw it so that it does not come from me or I use the mana's minder where I see a totally other dog my daughter for example is a little sized women her dogs are always crazy out over him they will even do a hold up to get it out of a hand because she really had to take her fingers off of course and the same job does not do that with me because they smell it they know exactly who they do that with and that's when you must change the system that you have more right you see that in the healing for example a dog a lot of dogs in healing for example with luring which is a good system also the ears are up ears are up but the tail is between the legs we call that active submission and then they try everything to make that dog be more flashy with the tail well you must do nothing put it away put you away and the dog will start to be very active it's it's like the dog is too much concentrated and there you must not change your food type you must just change from direct to indirect or you put your target higher and higher right more away from the dog and that will create frustration distance yeah from frustration the tail will start modeling and so on and so on it depends what you want eh if you want that missive dog you must go for the predictable reward predictable reward boring reward predictable reward direct reward so it means that you must understand the systems very well and then you can go in a certain direction right because it's not because a dog has the tail low that the dog went over Corrections right to do that it's maybe your reward system that was so boring but so needless that the dog is in that of course it's boring but the dog needs it and that's why they are in very concentrated I don't want to miss it and I don't want to miss it and they call that active submission and if you want

that picture perfect no problem but if you don't want it you must know how can I go away without changing the system I just must change something in my system oh that's interesting that that's interesting because right now I have a Dutch Shepherd his name is Vega and I got him around seven months is the male or female what's the name of the sister he is you know that story hey Bart yeah and the sister of AP is Chacha and Chacha doesn't like Royal Canin but AP loves Purina Pro Plan always steals somebody wanted to give away that parrot those stories are always crazy with this and that and then this person in the morning but I wanted to ask you a question that I'm dealing with is he he had an accident so basically he's kennel in the kennel all day for medical purposes he chewed through his uh basically a hog joint a hole through his heart joint in January and for five months I mean I've been at the van and whatever the point that I'm trying to make is that he's been getting lots of room service which means I'm going to him and rewarding him because he can barely move but I'm noticing like you said active submission so the tail subscribe him like it's not he yeah he has never been abused or anything but when I tell him the tail talks so I'm like why why do some dogs you know it's because by accident they had those submissive typical Behavior pictures and for them it's a way to get money now if you pet him and the dog goes in submission you wait you go away until dog is in Hope again you come closer very and you see the ears changing you go away within half an hour you will have another type of dog it's like Michael is a fantastic dog the young dog but lately he starts doing a little bit panting so we know that that is a little stress signal also so you wait until the painting stops and then you click within one week that dog will understand all exercises only start when I'm not panting when I'm my most clouds closed and these are little things but yesterday I was starting to teach him that I took away the Frisbee I put it away and he wanted to get it back but he doesn't know I wanted to shut his mouth obviously so he was sitting he was down and he was jumping underneath he was backing up he was doing every everything beautiful stuff so I I guess I'm going to start that today instead of yesterday and then by accident he will do what Michael wants and then she will click and give him a load off and then later if the dog has the mouth closed you put it on the verbal command you speak when you're happy and later when he's panting you can say shut him out you can take two months before you come there yeah but you can control all

the muscles you can it's just a little bit spontaneous then after that you will continue to reinforce that behavior yes you name it when you're happy and then of course when they realize they get paid for it before it's even named they offer it to get paid and when you know they're going to offer it then you name it Dr John that's work that does not work in two weeks it can work but it can take three months so for that art of training you need a little bit more time than the classic 21 days that you get you know yeah that it's interesting you brought back to three weeks because Michael three weeks is a lot and if you have multiple dogs to train the focus heal and all of those commands in three weeks I really commend you on that well I I never took more than three three boarding trains at a time okay so I only had three board interns I had two dogs of my own and a lot of times I had borders who had already come through the board and trained so they knew everything and then I gave lessons also and I went to I belonged I had a membership to a state park so I was driving everywhere so they were in the car they were busy yeah we were busy I was busy we went places did you have time for your men well now you guys so at this point are you guys feeling burnt out or like what is the future for neighbor pool and the schools because I just went and did silver School guys and if you are looking at enrolling and if you're on the borderline about doing it anyone in the audience I would encourage you to do it because for me one of my best experiences there was be being able to meet like-minded people being able to speak about the burnout being able to eat and have conversations about why does this happen and that is one of the biggest Parts benefits of Science in itself is well that that's the funny thing Bart was just talking to me last night about that he said why was everybody so jammed up after that event and I said because they're with like-minded people that you all are in the same system suffering suffering suffer together it's it's important that's part of the school is that you suffer together on purpose the graduation is not given us so that certificate you must work hard yeah of course we push the people quite hard to stay in that mindset but that creates a magic Bond bond between all the people that did suffer it's like in the Army all the people that did suffer during military service they have a special bound that you don't have in a normal school you don't yeah it's the litho unhappy moments and the sufferings and it's like me yesterday those guys at Chicago did make me wait 10 hours a half before taking a

plane and at the end when it flies you're happy you say thank you for flying me are you kidding me yes United sent you a uh uh they want your feedback on your phone my feedback they will have my feet but no backs that I agree the suffering every single day so for people who want to inside of what the school was like every single day we had tests and together we had to like study and do a group study and I mean I'm watching everyone in the room sweat bullets and even though Michael's like oh don't stress out don't do this we are stressed trying to get the best grade that we can because we really want I mean we paid we bought into this so I told people I'm like we're in this experiment right speaking of your favorite book The Talent Code and right now we're we're under stress and now we we have to we're forced to meet and communicate with other people that you know otherwise we might have never spoken to and that creates relationships that creates bonds and I still speak to my fellows like students um and someone asked are there any resources you recommend for owner trainers to learn more about your system who can't access the schools well let us all sit there on the website you will have all the nipple Golds and all the maple gold multiplicators and they will be happy to help Michael and died because momentum is there we do that school in June which is feeling filling up quite fast again then we do a school in the Netherlands in Europe where they come from all the world again that is also filling up and we know that not everybody has a the money to come we know that B we know that not everybody has the desire has the desire to go so long away from home so we're gonna probably make an online course that next year people can do the online but it won't be the same because you won't have that networking and like Michael said there will be no breakfast together no lunch together no dinner together no bonding it will be another Harmony yeah but people will be able to see for example one block and the block will be the homework we will start with the homework and what is the relationship between the Talent Code and the movie bug and so on and so on because it's important that we speak about that and then when people do the homework very well then the first blog and then again half an hour one hour and we know also that the whole world will put a camera on the online teaching we know that and it will give it to each other we want to reach millions of people to stop the light that dog should be trained by positive only positive only is a good system but it is not the only system and if positive becomes the only system we're gonna do a

big genocide and a whole dog population in the name of Wu Animal Welfare right are you kidding me so it's about well that's that's exactly right it's like when the when your dogs when you have dogs come in for boarding trains that are a little bit shut down they don't like this they they don't like they don't like food what are you gonna do not feed them for two weeks what are you gonna do so I'm gonna go to my next question but before we get into the force free and positive only I actually wanted to ask you Bart because I just want people to know who you guys are and what you stand for so Bart you used to be against e-collars you said an eye you guys both did not want to use e-collars on dogs so what made you want to make that change well and just talk to us more about that and I'll change the battery again go ahead okay it's easier in the beginning everybody starts to be very motivated we are very motivated dog trainers but we don't know that we know nothing so we are in the majority so it means that in the beginning you do the best you can and you think that it works with a little kibble a little bit cheese a little bit reward and then in in my case I did buy a dog I never forget his name flip and flip was a guy a dog that was trained by a guy that was seven times Belgian child well and I was thinking that I could control that dog well I could not it was impossible and then one there was a friend of my club with the e-collar and I told him Lou because his name was Luke give me that E coli he hadn't Bart what if it breaks I will pay you no problem and then I just did push the button and that dog did do everything with one zap on the bottom that day I changed my mind drastically from a no-go I went to whoa why did I fight this so long that was me so Michael you're yeah well I had a very well trained dog but he likes squirrels and what are you gonna do nothing I had could compete with the squirrel and Bart knows that from living in Missouri so we if you have no the the e-collar is just an extension of your leash and of course once they understand it you don't need to you don't need to go go to extremes it's just a little top hey I'm still there one thing about the e-collar misconception and it goes back to the definitions is that everyone is saying that the dog from the beginning is listening because of discomfort is that a true is that true or false that the dog is listening from the beginning that it's all from the start from discomfort well absolutely not I don't think I think that's what people must understand about negative reinforcement which means we stop the nagging pressure the reward comes at Behavior

the behavior is immediately the reward and that's why negative reinforcement goes so fast and clear clear if you work with positive reinforcement there is a lot of bridges in between the click and the death and the beep and whatever and they must be hungry and they must offer Behavior yeah and they must have the good drives because if they don't have the good drives it's very hard but it's it's very interesting because I posted a video of my horse running in from the pasture to get his dinner full speed with no e-collar and so I had some trolls on my page that were writing novels saying he's only coming because he's threatened but I'm telling you a horse that is free and Reddit runs away right and also lots of horses it's one thing the most horses if they get in a routine will come in for their food if they like their food from the pasture to their food that's something they want to do so having a trained animal is actually having something that they maybe wouldn't naturally do the by themselves but that they do with heart and soul and have Harmony that's training this is natural completely natural but you know your question is based on the evolution that we did make as dog trainers from no equals to of course with a knee color or with a pinch collar or with a choke collar we believe in education that's very important and it's a little bit an evolution you know it's like in the politics when you're young you're green then you ripe a little bit you become red then you ripe a little bit more and you become Brown that's a little bit the politic Evolutions it's like me when I was a young guy I come out of the family where I was a little bit spoiled so I wanted to protest against that and I did became with my I'm a teacher I'm a school teacher but with my diploma I went to be what you guys call a stevedore at the Port of Antwerp because I wanted to be a worker which in the politics and at the bridge where we did receive the work it was a bridge we were picking between what do you pay that's not enough what do you pay that's not enough what do you pay aha that starts to be interesting so I was a worker but I was not a worker I was a little entrepreneur and I was working for the money and after two years I was thinking but this is against your principles I became a capitalist instead of a socialist but slowly I accepted it and now Michael and I we are entrepreneurs we have a big business that runs well but it started another way and now we do all the things we were protesting against When We Were Young it's the same in dog training in the beginning if I see with Michael we see a lot of naive people naive people that

have not too much experience and they preach you the only positive system I'm not mad to them because I was the same but it means that they still have to ripe a little bit and they will change their mind over the years because you cannot make them change their minds they will change their mind with a dog that is changing their minds it will come and it just needs time and people still think when you say when you tell people to use negative reinforcement with their dog they think it's punishment but do you have an e-collar and access to you right now I do so I have you know I have okay my system here and then you can get it off my dog that's the thing in the old days 15 years ago that's how people used to test e-college to see what was a good working level they'd put an e-collar on and they'd wait until there was a reaction a physical reaction and that's why in the school as we always did it we would put an e-collar on and we would wait until we saw a physical reaction and then we would ask the people did you feel it before that and the answer is yes because that's the level sorry I took it off of his mask but you understand what I'm saying is that a lot of education do I use an e-collar much different now than I did 20 years ago yes 15 years ago yes so there is also a difference in quality of the e-colors today and 30 years ago and I mean I was against the e-collars in the old days because when a helicopter did fly over the dog was up if the police was speaking with each other with the Seabees the dog was up so it was non-reliable radio technology but over the years all that became better and if you go to the good Classic Brands it's a good quality and of course can happen it's like rockets that flies to the Moon it has been made by very intelligent people but there also some things can happen it's always the same I mean yes you need an evolution as a dog trainer in the beginning you are very passionate but naive but you are in the majority and that's the reality the majority of dog trainers they don't know too much but that's where the votes are and that's why the politicians today choose for the majority of people to introduce lows that makes no sense it makes no sense but they introduce them what they are not conscious about is that they create a big genocide on dogs that will come in the name of Animal Welfare you said it twice Mark what is animal well Animal Welfare it's everything that should be done to create a nice thing for the dog there is a definition the law of Animal Welfare says it is forbidden without valid reason to inflict pain or to make your dog suffer that means that with a valid reason you must inflict pain

so that you save a human being from the bite of a dog or you must inflict pain to make sure that you've saved the life from the dog and if you don't do that you have another problem for example I'm a soldier and I'm in war and my dog bites an enemy and I cannot out my dog because I could not train Trend reality and my general did not give me the tools to make my dog out and there the cameras are on that case well me the soldier I will go for the Geneva Convention because the Geneva Convention says that you must respect your enemies as your best friends you must treat them well well by not outing the dog you don't treat him well so I go on court in front of the Geneva Convention people and then me the soldier I will say well my general did not give me the tools to make my dog out and in training we never did bites on the skin of a person we always train in what we call artificial situation so it means that in that case you the soldier must inflict pain to that dog you must stop the suffering from the other soldier that is bitten and this is things that is very important I remember three months ago there was a video from a gentleman and I will not name names that was training a dog with the e-collar and you did hear vocalization vocalization yet but you did not see changing of the tail position and there was a lot of la la la going on on Facebook and then students call us and say hey Michael Bart why don't you make a statement then we said well it's easy animal welfare says it is forbidden without valid reason to inflict pain or to make a dog suffer maybe that dog was on that row and maybe the trainer had to inflict pain to make that dog understanding certain Rules of Engagement we don't know we don't know you can never trust a video that you see a little fragment of on soap now is lots of videos where people are getting canceled because they but we don't have the context yes about what is the context behind what the trainer was doing and all it really does is reinforce a large group of people that control the masses and say hey we're going to cancel this individual they feel empowered but what's happening is we're not having an opportunity to eat one educate the trainer and to educate the people that maybe this dog is gonna get put down if we use exactly they don't know we don't know so and that's why we don't react on things like that because we don't have all the information needed and that's it I mean so what are now I actually want to critique what you can balance training like because we do know that positive only does not is not inclusive to all dogs but a lot of people do shitty balance training and that also hurts us

as trainers who are trying to advocate for doing the right thing so I want to ask what are some potential negative consequences of using punishment in animal training in your history are people too heavy-handed or like what are what's your advice on using punishment in animal training you know it's a very difficult question in Tai John what is pain that's where it starts what is pain for you makes maybe me it's enjoyable so it's hard to it's a very very difficult question and that's why judging those things are very very complicated what I want to say is what I did not say in your previous question Animal Welfare has been introduced in Europe 1933 by the German SS we were not very human friendly by the way and the Animal Welfare project was against the Holmes Lottery from Jewish people so they wanted to nag the Jewish people by introducing those Animal Welfare laws and then at the end people that have that Extreme Animal Welfare agenda the question is what is that agenda towards people you see what I mean so Michael and me we are very careful with all those things and if you see in Europe everything with Animal Welfare always starts around Germany a little bit Northern from Germany or in Germany the first world convention Animal Welfare was I think if my information is well Nuremberg Germany there again Nuremberg was the Centrum of the SS companies and so on and so on I mean and I'm scary to think about all that and a lot of people who and I won't say all but a lot of people who call themselves balance trainers use positive training positive reinforcement training and they use negative reinforcement training avoidance training but they only use the reward of positive training and they only use the punishment of avoidance training and that is what we call popone and that can give a a bad name to tools and to balance trainers because the dog doesn't understand how to escape into Behavior because he's only he does well he's trained in and then one day they say and now I'm sick and tired of you not doing now you're gonna get punishment so now they're speaking a completely different language and a lot of times all that good work that you did in popo where you had that dog that's super motivated maybe not always listening but super motivated good attitude it's and it's typically for the sport world I think that more than 90 percent of Doc people in the sport World train with positive reinforcement as a reward but use the correction the plus correction from negative reinforcement the popone and a good dog can take it because that's the way that we did select the dogs 30 and 40 years ago a dog that can take that type of training

is a strong dog and we needed strong dogs of course the question was can we still wash 20 dogs before having one good dog and that's the Eternal question so Mike Linda we have dog trainers we don't select dogs we are dog trainers and we train every dog we picked to the mother and the father and out of the litter we picked him on color well yeah we had the last 10 years Michael and I had all our dogs were black Malinois or black Shepherds and we want to go back to the red one so the red one was easy it was only one one well it's the first no it was not the first pick it was the only pick there was only one red now yeah yeah and that's not a problem eh yeah but we want to go back to our roots and we in Belgium did mix a lot of Bloodlines eh because normally the Malinois is a 40 pound dog and we have dogs from plus 60 pounds so we have to cross it with the German Shepherd that was a little bit more stable and in the beginning the malinos was a nervous wreck and we had to cross it with the stable German Shepherds but in the old days we had a very very hard selection today we don't select anymore we train what we have so and that's a good Evolution but if it's a good Evolution for genetics that's something else what we do see is bad lousy training gives strong genetics good training gives weak genetics that's a fact because because the good well-trained dog that's the the bread the dog that's going to be bred that's the one who shows well it's it's easier if you look to the sports igp is a selection of the good dog trainer it's a good dog trainers that do win igp and of course the material must be okay in Belgian Ring Sports it's the best dog that wins so I was always amazed to see that I went to see training from other guys and I was understanding nothing about the whole training and I was thinking what the hell and I went back and back and at the end the conclusion was it is just a good dog that's it but those guys have one goal and the name of the dog is by accident the name of the club is by accident the name of the whole environment is by accident and they never have a second dog never never never but that one dog was an extreme good dog and it was the result of operant conditioning that dog did train himself that's it and the dog did perform well by staying in the rules where the owner can make points that's it it's very interesting to see that you know so you're saying that they were unable to basically repeat and win again or compete again and it was just by chance yes you have no system they had no system that just had a good dog that's it and a good dog takes all your they ask a lot of times to Michael and

me what is a good dog well for us a good dog is a dog that dares there's to be disobedient in the favor of the team for example we are sleeping at night the dog is sleeping in the house and the dog is rolling we say shut them out and she continues growling shut your mouth and she started barking and they would say huh maybe we should go look and we opened the door and we see the house is on fire so it means that a good dog must dare to be disobedient in the prophet of the team that's a good dog because the good dog that obeys very well will not dare to bark anymore and the house is burning down right because it's a very good or bigger dog they need to listen but they also need to be able to still think yeah creative mind like they need to be independent and not so dependent on you for everything well if you I know something about the sports tajon if you look to igp obedience is millimeter work always the same always the same always the same tracking is the only question bite work always the same always the same always the same and of course it's a very difficult sport French ring sport always the same always the same always the same the Dutch cane PV always the same always the same always the same and then you have the Belgian Ring Sports and the variation it is always about the fantasy there is a program that non-stop changes so that means that you need a dog in the Belgian ring sport that is operant conditioning Trends operand conditioning that's the dog that assimilates very well and that generalized very well and in the other sports you need a dog that stays in the program if you need a dog that likes to bark you must go to the knpv from frustration the dog must bark because with a lot of barking involved in that program so if you need the passive guard dog the general rule is don't go to the knpv dog because from nature that dog likes to bark from frustration and these are things that you must know if you pick dogs you know yeah and so if you want a dog that can moves very well to get the target bitten then you must go to the French Ring Sports where the decoys are athletes that do everything to not make the dog bite and there you are with your Buffalo that is strong but it cannot catch the helpers you say oh you're a buffalo yeah I mean next question fire okay so my next question bar is I I wanted to ask about like balance training what is one of the biggest mistakes you see with the balance trainers well first of all it's not balanced eh and people implement the negative reinforcement on a Tula high level too fast and people Implement plus Corrections too fast and the question is does a dog understand the job if the dog

understands the job of course you can give a correction but should that correction should that such a high level it's not because I steal a bonbon or chewing gum that I must have the death penalty as a consequence right that's what some dog trainers do so I mean there is also something you must understand Michael and I we like dogs with a little bit power we like dogs that did smoke a little bit cigarettes that they drink a little bit beer in the dark we like dogs that have a little brutal sight because that's the dog and it's like in The Miracle Worker that little lady that was deaf and could not speak and blind that little lady was a wild animal and that wild animal was trained by The Miracle Worker by the Nanny to be very very complying but basically she was a free thinker that did drink beer and cigarettes well we did what she wanted yeah it was a couple years a couple of years and that's what was the power of my daughter yeah I was just gonna say that my daughter on purpose tried to do her stinky best to make her dogs obedient but the dogs became Wilder and Wilder well I was just I was thinking Enos did whatever she wanted when she was yeah she did that also but she does not try to do that with the dogs but she does it but not on purpose and then that's why it's so well try to copy that system on purpose but we cannot do it so well like she does it on voluntary you see me yeah well it's like yes you see there's some pet people that make they don't they think they're making a monster but it's what sport people want and they don't know how they did it it's yeah it's like lately I saw them lately I saw a very good question on Facebook it was a novice dog trainer invite Sports and that trainer said why when a dog has a ball and whatever the dog is choked and why does that choking increasing the desire to hold that ball again and it's a fantastic question and our answer was well the question is fantastic but we need to write a book about it because you cannot answer it like that it's about the hope and Michael will tell you that they do tests with rats that they were trying to draw you take over yeah they it was a little bit barbaric I think it was in the 50s or the 60s and they were testing wild rats and domesticated rats and wild rats rats when they're trapped in a a bucket where they can't escape they swim to the bottom they see they can't escape and they die wow domestic rats domesticated rights lasted a little bit longer and then they tested the wild rats by uh rescuing them before they were drove before they were drowning letting them dry dry off and then putting them back and what the ones that were rescued

previously had hoped that maybe they would be rescued again even though there's no way to escape maybe they're gonna Thrive so they last lasted like uh it was 60 times longer or something like that it was crazy it's a little bit the thing that we did see when I was a young guy they said there is a club not too far and they have always good biters and I was triggered by that and I went there to see and I was disappointed because the helper was 62 years old and yes the dogs were biting very hard and at the out I saw choking but the dogs were not outing I went home disappointed three to like weeks later I said to myself I'm gonna watch again that was even more the help was 72 years old and the guy was sitting on a chair and he did do nothing and yes the dogs were biting hard and again no out in the choking and that's where I did say aha I understand it the dog must do everything and the choking is an incentive to bite harder it's joking because there is not one helper that can choke those 80 pound of dogs with a costume on and with a big chain so they were taking a little bit air away and then giving air again a womb and the animals were biting harder and harder it means that when pressure is lower than the hope it's a reinforcer to continue do better and harder what you do you understand that and you make them tougher and tougher from that day we did start to do all these things on purpose for example we don't want the dog to out we choke them a little bit we give air again we choke them a little bit we give air again and on the ball the same thing and that makes the dogs crazy and crazier on that bowl more and more hope ful but to what you said some dogs pain and suffering right so they love that yeah why are dogs pulling like crazy in the streets to go pee they pulled nobody learns them to pull on purpose yeah they love it that's why and when they come at the end the pressure stops and they can pee and poo for example so but nobody learns them on purpose to pull it's nobody and speaking of employing we never reward our dogs for peeing and pulling because the reward is peeing and pulling of course it's self-reinforcing I understand it yeah that's the reward the pressure stops right you know how it feels yeah so I mean guys I had some questions from the audience that's pretty much all my questions but I want to address Georgia Smith any suggestions from switching a dog who was trained old popone I think that's what she meant means and then have the nerves for it she puts depressed heart and soul to the new system any suggestions for that well start from zero start from zero again it's you must learn that dog the

alphabet of your system because people switch systems but they don't learn the alphabets they go immediately to the end Stadium right you must go to the first level of the alphabet and always rewarding and that can be always stimming always steaming means if you do positive reinforcement your reward always if you do negative reinforcement tap tap tap stops so you must start again from low in every behavior and if you already did up your pinch color or your e-collar you tap low level you pinch color and feed the dog existential food One Tap and when you see it at the top very low yeah if you see that the top excites the dog now you can start again your ABCs but that's a little bit why we added the new Naper bow and the new Step One is because people were training dogs that weren't so strong and probably using too high negative reinforcement Corrections before they're ready and so forth and you need a dog that's very prepared once you have a dog that's very prepared you can use that job it's easier people want to do University with pups well if that would work why don't they do it with human beings why don't they do that with children well children goes to Nursery School nursery school children go to the first degree and when they're 18 19 years then if needed they go to university but you don't start in University it's impossible and people want to go too fast in that University idea with young puppies and there you see of course a nice spot that does the sit down stand still but there is no heart and soul and one year later you don't see that pup anymore you see where's the dog well it was weak we washed him out and so on and so on I mean there was a little bit what we did see in the sport world of course if you train a dog for people that cannot control a dog with fire it's maybe a very good system as a pet dog trainer to train that dog in the Old Maple pool it's not a problem and a lot of times they have they have enough to start in the old night before because they're they're so smart a lot of those family dogs that have gotten away with everything gotten into the trash and gotten yeah yeah they're they're doing behaviors that are self-reinforcing like you said they spontaneously versus when you ask them to do it right so like you guys got a puppy and let's say you guys were pet owners right what would be your first what would be your go-to how would you spend the first two weeks with that new puppy for being a pet I would just take it places potty train it that's we call it what people do too fast is cooling dogs we like to give dogs what we call Basic house manners education well it's like

in my day when I was a young kid we had an education from home a home education and then we went to school for becoming smarter or learning ABCs nowadays [Music] that function has been shifting and they expect the school to give the basic education that kids don't receive home anymore so basic education we were like a dog that can live in the house that can go with you that is quite stable in the environments that you can brush that you can touch the nails we call that the basic education and we don't train them right for sit down or standstills spending time spending time with them and getting them used to the environment and used to be to people and yeah liking food and eating out of your hand and yeah loving yeah loving the crate getting used to riding in the car with your everyday life is gonna be yes for example you did you had that example of that dog that did breakthrough is great you train the dog well Our advice would be never close the door of that crate if the dog by accident goes in that crate there is food if the dog by accident goes in the crate there is food if the dog by accident goes in the crate there is no food next time there is food again make a gambling system out of it or when the dog is in the track you click release to you so make it a game and you never never close that Bloody door because that's where the kennel stress starts because you put them in jail and the dogs are locked for a few hours and more you see that a lot so leave the kennel door open and let the dog take the decision I go towards my jail myself which is not a gym right our dogs always love the candles love it yeah they're going great and they love it we will never have a dog that bites holes in the crates there is a reason why they do that eh there's a reason it's like having a child and not giving them any way to express themselves yes yes I'm saying it's just luck puts them down shuts them down that's what I tell people I say you the problem is you just threw them in there you didn't even give them opportunity to learn what it's going to be like right well when we picked up zot he'd never been in a crate and when I first put him in his crate he started howling and having a total fit so I carried him home and then later we just we didn't put him in a crate until he liked to go in the crate and then when he liked to go in the crate we shut the gate and then we opened it again and then later when he fell asleep in the crate as soon as we heard him move we let him out of the crate so we never waited until he asked us I need to go out you must there before that yes and he loves it now he always goes as

soon as I let him in first thing he does going his crate oh okay I don't have to I don't have to go in there okay but John we always change for example when we put we should take a video from our kennels outside we never put a dog in the kennel from the front door it always goes from the back side as puppies as a puppy that they cannot see us go away and we never go to the front of the kennel and pet them we don't give them hope never there's no no it's like in the house if you wake up and if you do the same routines within two weeks the dogs start yapping and they start barking and so on and so on so we never do that when we wake up in the morning we'd always do different things change the things huh I'm playing guys and we can make coffee we can let it let the dog out we can we can go check the mail we can go to the service center then we let them out or we can wake up at I've woken up at four o'clock in the morning and let him out at four o'clock I mean it's totally different but he's not he has no expectations of course of course we can do that because we ate only have two dogs and two we have the time to do that a little bit huh and three they get a lot of exercise during the day is that some people don't have that ability like they're going to work like you said like they wake up and they have a routine because they have a career they have something to do that's fine yes but I when I had a dog when I was working at the VA and I had to get up really early but I always went running for a mile and a half and I took my dog so my dog got exercised and you he had to stay home while I was at work no problem I would like to go back to Michael and died for years they teach small groups of people we did not reach enough people that means that with the last school we did reach 150 people it's a lot but it is nothing we wanna reach thousands of people we want to reach 100 thousands of people we want to reach millions of people and the whole idea to reach millions of people with the full quadrant not a left side or right side no the full quadrant and then it's up to people to use their quadrant they like or mixing and we break tolerance tolerance means we accept that other people have another way of training no problem but don't oblige us to just train with negative reinforcement only or don't oblige us to just train with positive reinforcement only we want the whole quadrant and that's very important for us by the way you know that little game tamaguchi tamaguchi everyone knows yeah I know tamaguchi I didn't know it well I'm gonna tell you something do you have an idea how many Tama guccis were sold over the world

I believe it was well over at least 40 million 50 million units 83 million wow though 83 million and the price was 15 Euro Michael and I we must reach hundreds of thousands and millions of people and that's why we go to that system where we create reproducers the multiplicators we create systems where we're going to teach online for thousands of people not five people but thousands of people and we are busy creating a game an application where people can do positive reinforcement negative reinforcement Nepal reinforcement to reach millions and millions and millions of people with the full quadrants and then the politicians will listen to us because for the moment the politician listened to the majority even when the majority is quite restricted in their systems that's why positive reinforcement only is the politic system to go because they have the most followers and we did try a lot by telling politicians blah blah blah blah blah blah they don't listen to the truth no they don't listen to facts they're not trainers the only facts they are looking to is how many followers do you have people and we want to have millions and millions of people within two years from now we're gonna reach that write it down within two years we're ready for that and then we're gonna stop because we know exactly what people need people need information and the total information not a reduced information and we're gonna do that with the game gaming playing is the way to learn game with people and we are 100 convinced that in two years we gotta reach our targets give us two years and Michael and I of course we make a lot of money but we reinvest everything so we dream we're there and we do and we can live a little bit tight no problem so but give us two years and we do it and we gonna do what not one politic party could do we're gonna do what no not one sport organization could do not a dog organization could do we're gonna reach the millions and millions and millions of people because for example only in Belgium we have I think 12 million people we have three million dogs three million dogs wow official in United States I think you guys have 350 million people and close to I think registrated more than 100 million dogs that means that behind every doctor is a dog owner and the dog owner has the right on the full information and the full information is the full quadrant in all the power and that is upon the people to pick and choose but to accept that other people have another way and Michael and I we are for what we call dogs that are free but listen we how do we call it again responsible dog ownership that's what we

believe in and if you can do responsible dog ownership with only positive reinforcement fine and if you can do it with only negative reinforcement fine but don't oblige other people to do it like you do never do that so you were at the school we did everything and we hope that one day people will be tolerant for people that make responsible dog ownership if the dog looks happy and is listening and behaving well and is healthy what's the problem there is none for all my followers and the people here listening the plan that they have is that they're going to create a dog game assimilation for you to experiment with the theory in a fun engaging way and then the next after that is that they have an online platform that they're creating so that they can reach more people even if they tell you guys are going to screen record it and share with a family that they're removing the ego and saying you know my priority is dogs not money yeah yes you guys can learn and become possibly a silver student and then after that you could become a gold student and then after that you become a teacher where you can help spread the message and that this can live on and we can reach millions of people am I correct yes you are correct sir you catch on oh yeah I got it I just wanted to make sure everyone understood the question that I have because I am in route and on that path myself is that I'm going to do gold and I wanted to ask what are you guys what is your system to become a teacher for the new golds right now new Golds will stay new Golds but there will always be uh a possibility that new goals can become a multiple together I mean what you must understand that John is that there is a lot of churches but not a lot of basilics it means that there is a lot of soccer players but there is not a lot of maradomas a lot of people want to be teacher but we cannot predict Michael and I cannot predict who is becoming the best teacher and who's going to survive we know exactly that a lot of multiplicators were by free will engaging in the system some of them will do very well some of them will stop after one session because it's like teaching sometimes the teaching is nice but you are not good in the human relationship with the other human beings so we know exactly that after a while we're gonna see who's gonna survive in the system right some people can speak some people can speak and not train some people can train but can't speak and some people can speak very well and train very well but they are a little bit rough to the other people so yes that's not going to work either you you see that with X factors there is people that can sing very well

but nobody buys the single because they don't like the person and then with a guy like me that cannot sing and I sell five millions of and it's just Mumbo to them yeah whatever from my understanding is the Charisma it's the people wanting to gravitate to certain people and then there's the follow through is that the student is successful and that's what I think in my mind would make me ready to become a teacher in the system is just focusing on Mastery and then understanding am I able to replicate that Mastery through deep coaching of other people and the more you're gonna do it the better you're going to be right and the more you're going to do it you say whoa I'm non-stop evaluating because I did not understand it like that you see what I mean so we get taijan to come here in in August yeah we can do that but hey that job we are very long on the podcast we can do the next one if you want one more thing for you guys one more thing for you guys is I want yeah we're gonna reach them believe us okay because the world is ready for it now so we see that something is changing there is there is protests coming from the silent majority the silent majority doesn't take the ideology of the minority anymore that's why we see worldwide and we have to be on the right side of Rome yeah ask me what my political Visions are all right yeah that's a good one well the opposite of wrong yes all right guys that's all I have so in there this is gonna be in replay my team is team is work on getting it translated in as many languages as possible as soon as possible if you have any questions about dog training reach out to me if you reach out to Michael and bar on Facebook as well and don't forget to register for the next school that we have coming up uh and thank you guys for your time and tuning in you take care and have a great day thanks a lot [Music]